NO ONE can match the intelligence of the Somali race Pride is good but that comment was a tad over the top, wouldn’t you say? Somali intelligence is not different to Bolivian, Peruvian, American or Japanese intelligence. Don’t start turning us into some sort of Master Race, adeer. The Japanese point is a bit more complex; they stood up to the might of America and almost succeeded for a multitude of reasons not intelligence alone. If we go down the root that says the Japanese are more intelligent than the Somalis, we’ll inevitably have to ask for the criteria used to define “intelligenceâ€. This might then lead to discuss the old age argument of nurture versus nature. It will make for a great discussion. Alas I think pride will get in the way before we even begin.

You need to explain the Khilafa to me one more time now. Since as you say it’s “FARD†I really need to know everything that needs to be known about it. When seeking the Khilafa, do I seek an individual that will lead me or do I seek the concept itself? How would I know that a Khalifa is the rightful person? Lets assume that King Fahad declared himself a Khalifa tomorrow, why should I not agree with him and give him a bay’ah? He already says that he “rules by Islamâ€. I see some the things done in Saudi Arabia and all those religious people, religious courts and Muftis and it makes me think that, YES, Saudi Arabia does rule by Islam. You need to educate me and “teach†me the right way to “view†Islam so that I can happily follow your message. If you do it by any other way, I’ll only assume that you’re another General Musharaf, Hosni Mubarak or Saddam Hussien!

^^^ What was your problem? Stop inventing stories and spreading rumours, woman. People on here will start thinking that the great, good and law-abiding NGONGE dabbles in nocturnal activities with strange young girls. As Bill Clinton would say, I have never had, erm, any conversation with that woman, people. :rolleyes:

Today, on my way to work on the tube, the carriage was very crowded. People were pushing and shoving and there was hardly any space to stand. There was a very tall woman standing in front of me. She had long jet-black hair. I was standing so close to her that my nose kept touching her ears and her long hair kept tickling my lips. There was some sort of strange and serene smile on her face. She moved her head slightly to the side and my face was totally covered in her sweet smelling black locks. I couldn’t see anything. It was very dark in there. The people behind me continued their pushing and shoving. Random elbows kept hitting my sides, crazy feet kept stepping on mine and that woman’s hair was still covering my face. The darkness intensified. I panicked! I started taking deep breaths. The sweet smell of her hair disappeared. I started hallucinating. The pushing and shoving continued. I tried to calm myself by not thinking about it all. I started thinking about a program I watched on TV the other day. I remembered the news; remembered Iraq. I started thinking of blindfolded hostages. Felt sorry for the poor hostages. Got an elbow on my side again. Moved forward a little. The hair engulfed me. The darkness intensified. My hallucinating got worse. Thought I was a blindfolded hostage. Another elbow! This one really hurt. No sweet smells anymore. A strange smell entered my nostrils; it was a smell of dampness! I tried to move but that only made the pushing and shoving increase. I felt helpless and confused. I wanted this whole ordeal to end. I was ready to confess all. The train stopped at Holborn and the tall woman got off, man. The silly woman needs a haircut.

^^ Qac Qac is saying " Go crazy if you like but why do you want to name all your kids Qac Qac?" I have no idea what Jumatatu is saying. :rolleyes:

Yusufaddie, I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying there. What’s the point of having the Khilafa if it has no substance? I find your rhetoric very scary. You want to take Khilafa by force? Who are you to force people into following you? What makes you different to King Fahad and all the other tyrants? Oh wait; you’re wearing your magical “Khilafa†hat! I’m shocked and totally astonished at your inability to see how convoluted and twisted your views are, saaxib. Khilafa is a great concept, a concept that every Muslim longs for. However, none of this is about the Khilafa itself, it’s about the benefits associated with having a ruling Khalifa. When we think about this concept, we start getting nostalgic and dream of having a Khalifa that will rule the Muslim world in the manner that Abu Baker Al Sadeeq and Omer Bin Al Khatab did. Nostalgia is great, don’t you think? Now, lets disembark from our time machine and face reality. You say it only takes one person to become a Khalifa! Well of course. But, that person has to be “elected†into such a post. That person has to be someone of sound Islamic knowledge and understanding. That person has to be a tolerant, benevolent and wise individual. I have a feeling that you’ll agree with all of this (but I have some doubts). Anyway, lets assume that you agree with my characterisation of our future Khalifa, can you please tell me how are we going to get such a Khalifa if everyone agreed to follow your argument about the unimportance of Islamic “education� Or are you saying that you and those who support you know best and that the rest of the Muslims will just have to give you their full trust? Do you see how contradictory you arguments are? Anger is good, pride is good, and hope is even better. But, if in your pride-driven anger you start misleading your fellow Muslims with some ill-thought ideas about Khilafa and tell them not to bother with educating themselves about their deen, your anger, pride and hope become of no benefit to anyone. Again, as with others, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your above statements were written in haste and that you actually do have a better way of explaining your ideas.

Heh. Sounds like you need to drop out from whatever degree you’re doing now and start studying to become a veterinarian. Those one thousand camels will need someone treating them from time to time, saaxib. I can just imagine you riding one of your camels while listening to a Sheikh Albani lecture on your old style Walkman, Ya Abu Qac Qac. PS With this thread you’ve only gone and added wood to my brightly burning self-important fire, saaxib.

I have to admit, your last post was much better. I still need to know more about the Khilafa bit though. I’ll ask you more questions below. But, first I have to thank you for taking all the criticism in the spirit it was intended and replying with good grace. Now, I have two points that I need you to clarify a bit more for me. The first will be about the target audience of the Hezb and the second will be about the Khilafa itself. From reading your explanation above (and many previous threads), the Hezb (since I’m assuming these are Hezb arguments), uses Western examples such as teenage sex and the acceptance of homosexuality! These examples (on the whole) are not prevalent or accepted in Muslim lands, so are the Hezb directing its message to a Western audience? My second point regards the Khilafa and your contention that society needs to be changed from the top down! I’m just a bit apprehensive about such an idea. Lets assume we got a Khalifa, he gets on with the task of changing society into following his way. How will that work? Will it follow the Madhab of that particular Khalifa? Will the people who do not agree with a HT Khalifa (because of differences in Aqeeda) be banished from the land? Will they be forced to follow the Khalifa’s way?

Truth Seeker, I’m not a spokesperson for the Salafis but from what I understand, they don’t “seek†authority. Their message seems to be “Muslims should return to Allah’s book and his Prophet’s Sunnaâ€. It’s not a revolutionary message. It’s not asking people to do anything out of the ordinary. Their logic being, if the Muslims get back to practising Islam and are true in their belief (reflecting it in their everyday life) they’ll become united (since they’ll all become of the same mindset – being true in their belief). Their unity in the name of Allah will simply result in the Khilafa being created. What they’re saying is that you can’t start from the top and work your way downward. You’ve got to start from the bottom and teach people about the basics of their religion, the importance of the belief in Allah (sw) being the ONE and only god, and the duties and obligations of each and every Muslim. Without that, a majority of people giving a bay’ah to a khalifa will not even know what they’re doing or why. Your argument of “seeking authority†is really confusing, saaxib. The Hezb uses the analogy of the prophet(csw) visiting the various Arab tribes and “seeking†authority from them. It neglects to mention that those Arab tribes were disbelievers and that the prophet’s main aim was to convert them to Islam, for if these tribes were Muslim tribes, the prophet (csw) would not have needed to seek authority from them! The only conclusion I can derive from that is that the Hezb equates current Muslims to those disbelieving tribes! I’m sure I’m wrong here but this brings me back to my original grumble with the Hezb, their inability to express their message in a clear and understandable way.

Quick Hezb Et Tahrir history (from various sources) HT was established by Taqi ud-Din an-Nabahani in Jordan in 1953. He was a Palestinian judge and an Al Azhar graduate. They’ve been established in the West for decades now. They’re banned from most Muslim countries. They broke off from The Muslim Brotherhood. Al Muhajeroon (Omer Bakri’s group) is an offshoot of HT.

PS: Wat was the out-come? DA wants ta know... My Jeans were heavier than the golf ball, saaxib. Honestly though, some people have dirty minds.

^^^^Surely if the people have Iman and are of one mind in regards to their deen, the Khilafa will automatically come! Aren’t you trying to put the cart before the horse there? I always assumed that’s the way you too wanted to establish the khilafa but were being a bit ambiguous about it. Turns out I was wrong!

Truth Seeker, I admit that you’ve written and tried to explain the methodologies of the Hezb, saaxib. But, these explanations were not enough, which is why I’m pushing you to reveal more. Whenever something new happens in the Muslim world, the Hezb write article after article about the importance of the Khilafa! I’m trying to give the Hezb the benefit of the doubt and attribute that rhetoric to vagueness and miscommunication. I’m hoping that the Hezb’s main emphasise is not really the Khilafa but what the actual Khilafa entails. I’m hoping that you’ll confirm this in your future replies. I check and read the Hezb’s website regularly, I sift through many of the articles there in the vain hope that I’ll find something, that will convince me why I should be supporting the Hezb and not the many other Islamic movements. Alas, I found nothing there to convince me, yet. You ask me to challenge the Hezb’s methodologies; I think that’s all I’ve been doing for the past few days. Not because of some evil vendetta against the Hezb, but because I’m tired of all the nonsense. The Hezb has a message, it’s trying to convince people that their message is the right one but it’s not showing us how they’re going to achieve those goals! Lets start again, saaxib. Can you explain to me (and other interested parties), in simple, unambiguous or elusive English, how does the Hezb plan to deal with the problems currently facing the Muslim ummah? If you choose to say Khilafa, fine. Just explain (in layman’s terms) how the Khilafa will be established and what should we do if the establishment of the Khilafa is delayed by a day to two?

lol@LayZieGirl You didn't even ask if he knew anyone on this site or conduct a survey on people who "cared". Better start reading all the replies this guy got, dear. Damn, the boy is popular. Wonder what was his secret! :rolleyes:

I tried to hold back, tried to bite my tongue, tired to ignore the whole thing. But I can’t! This thread is a sexist thread. :mad:

That’s the thing though, J. They don’t have an argument. Their only argument is the Khilafah. How to get to that? How they propose to achieve it? They never said. It’s all great speeches and criticisms of any efforts others make but they do not offer any practical and material solutions. They berate the West and anyone dealing with the West when the majority of them are based in the West! Read the exchanges I’ve had with Truth Seeker in the past few days and point out the Hezb’s good argument. This is in no way a personal attack directed at Truth Seeker. It’s an attack on Hezb Et Tahrir. It’s either a phoney party or they’re in dire need for a communications director to relay their message to the masses.

^^^^That type of man is the most likely kind to cheat. He’s been bullied at home by the meat cleaver wielding lunatic and now has found a woman who loves him, cherish him and cares for him. The only kitchen utensil she has in her hand when he gets home is a fork, to feed him the sweet baasto she made with her own hands. No wonder he started cheating. :rolleyes:

Your COUSIN is a guest in your house? Arr ma ana waalan mese cadan ba laga heesaya? Since when have Somali cousins been treated as guests? As one of the brothers already said: Timaha ka jiid, dhag ka qaniin,cinjiyeeso,dharka ka fiiq moos camal If you’re not Somali, ignore all of that though. :rolleyes:

^^^What are Virgin mobiles got to do with my boredom? :rolleyes:

^^ loool I don't own any scales, saaxib. I just daydream about them. Makes me feel interesting to own all these things that I don't really own.

Today, I bought me brand new weighing machine. I took it out of it’s packaging and was keen to test it. I got a bag of sugar and a box of tea bags. Stuck the sugar on one side and the tea on the other. Sugar is heavier than tea! Sweet is not always light it seems. I got excited about my new toy and wanted to test it more. I took my shoes off and put one on either side. My right shoe is heavier than my left! Why? This experiment is real fun. I decided to surpass myself and weigh something out of the ordinary this time. I thought long and hard, long and hard, what could I weigh next? I went to the kitchen and got a digestive biscuit, broke it into small pieces and picked up the smallest crump I could find. I put it on one side of the scales. Now I need something to put on the other side. Again, I thought long and hard, biting my nails as I did so! Aha! Nails. I bit out a big piece and put it on the scales. This time, sweet won the day. Biscuit crumps are heavier than finger nails! I next started to rummage in the kitchen drawers. Found a golf ball, a golf ball? What’s a golf ball doing in my kitchen? I put it on one side of the scales and tried to think of something else to put on the other side. I thought long and hard, long and hard. As I did so, I kept looking at my stomach, and beyond. I undid my zipper....

Even more disturbing because of the ominous omen for Somalia's future is the lack of education available. The Somali tradition of secular education is extinct. The schooling that does exist is financed by Arabs, which means Arabic has replaced Somali in school curriculums. This is tragic, especially because writing in Somali was in its infancy when the state collapsed - the standardization of the script having been adopted in 1972 - and Somalia is the only African country with a population numbering in the millions to boast of having one unifying language. This will no longer be the case if Arabic continues to be the medium of instruction in schools. To be frank, I’d have Chinese, as the medium of instruction in Somali schools if it meant those schools will stay open. As for the “Arabisation†of Somalia, well, if the Somali language and culture is so weak as to allow this to happen, I see no problem with that. I doubt it of course. Anyway, I always keep hearing Somalis going on about how the Arabs never help out and on the only occasion I hear of Arabs helping out, they’re being criticised for doing so! Cajeeb.

This shows that Muslim thought has been infected by these kufr ideas and how they have distanced Islam form the people to make it seem an impossible reality. Yet allow them to beleive that kufr political participation will solve their problems. Who's telling who what? come on people can we not solve our own problems with out turning to the "solution" offered to us by the Kufr. People argue with you guys (The Hezb) because you talk about Khilafa but you’re doing it in the Western world! Your message is commendable but makes little sense to the man in the street. Let me take a leaf from your book and give you a historical example: In the early days of Islam, the prophet (csw) brought the people of Mecca the message from Allah (sw). The message was about forsaking The Lat, The Cuza and Hobal! It was about believing in one GOD. He explained and demonstrated to people why they should not believe in simple statues they’ve constructed themselves. He showed them how silly this whole thing is and revealed to them the greatness of Allah. He did it in their own language (a language that they were very proud of and thought nobody could match). The holy book came down in their own language, it was better “written†and delivered than a million poems and “Mocalaqaatâ€. If a man’s greatness was measured by how articulate (Baleegh) he was, then the holy book demonstrated the greatness of the creator of man. In addition, Islam offered a viable alternative to the Jahiliyah practices. People believed in it because it told them that in Allah’s eyes there is no difference between people of different races, creeds or colours. It gave them clear instructions on how to live their lives. From the first minute the prophet received the first “Ayah†to the time of his death, Islam kept on demonstrating to people the greatness of Allah and proving that it’s the best way for any human being to live their lives by. The beauty of it all is that it was done in a very disarming way. There was hardly any anger, coercing or drum banging. The attitude was, “This is the message, take it or leave it. We believe in the greatness and oneness of the Allah, we hope that you’ll see the light and join us in our belief but if you don’t, it’s your choiceâ€. Now, even though the Muslims lived amongst these Kaafirs, they didn’t try to antagonise them with rants about how superior Muslims were and how awfully deluded and utterly ****** Bani Qureesh were. Instead, they tried to show them the right way by their actions, words and the visible harmony in the then very small Islamic society. The moral of this story is that if Muslim Americans want to take part in American politics therefore furthering the message of Allah and ensuring that Islam reaches all, why should they not do it? They’ll be doing a lot more than Hezb Al Tahrir, which seems to be happy with 1.6 Billion Muslims and is not displaying any signs of wanting to increase that number by gaining more converts. It rather appears to want to stay as a dreamy political party that resembles an angry young kid, who shouts about what he thinks is the right way, yet does nothing to prove it or reach that end.

DA, The trick is to read what people say to you, hear them out and then make up your own mind(with the best of intentions). Should you need to know more, don't be too stubborn to ask. I know you already think you have all the answers and don't need some faceless person on the Internet advicing you about your religion, I do too, difference is I don't "think", I KNOW! Occasionally though, I decend from my high horse and mingle amongst the commoners on here. They're very talented people, these commoners! Shoobaro taught me a couple of dutch words, raula and Jumatatu a couple of sawahili ones and feebaro taught me a very clever way of counting to three in Somali. Salafi on line reminded me of my duties as a Muslim, Nur explained Tawxeed and Viking told me the correct version of Araweelo's legend (not at all like Ameeenah and Bee's horrific modern version). J11 gave me most of the lyrics of the best Somali songs, Truth Seeker told me the Khilafa is coming and Baashi told me to stop being emotional(take heed of this bit of advice, you). I know and you know, that we both are good enough to have found all of this without any help from anyone, right? Still, it's our duty to give people the impression that they're adding something new to our already almost perfect knowledge, don't you think? It teaches us modesty, some might say. PS Since I decided to adopt you and let you have a few sips from my great fountain of knowledge, let me give you my first bit of advice: DO. NOT. START. ISLAMIC. ARGUMENTS. PLEASE. Carry on..

^^^^ looooool