NGONGE

Nomads
  • Content Count

    21,328
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by NGONGE

  1. Salafi, brother, hold your raging horses a minute and read my words slowly. I don’t pass fatwas of any kind here. Whenever I feel the need to do so, I cut and paste the Fatwas of those who are more knowledgeable than me. While making it very clear that these are not my words and that I trust in their superior knowledge (and I still add the words “wallaho aclam†at the end of it). If we were talking about medicine, physics, chemistry or even History we never dare to talk with total conviction and knowledge unless it was our specialist field. Why do we feel the need to believe that just because we are Muslim, we have the right to issue Fatwas that we read somewhere without totally understanding how the original writer reached his final verdict? Raxima Allah emri’en Carif Qadra Nafsah, Akhi. Juma, as I said, Dr Yusuf gave his verdict on such a practise after a lot of thought and deliberation. It was a longer “Fatwa†than the two lines you posted and it would have been really nice and helpful if you could find it and post it in its entirety. If for nothing else, only so you give the words of the man as they were so nobody else would take them out of context after reading your (correct by the way) line. Thanks, brother. Edit: It’s either I’m growing old and senile or you’ve edited your post Salafi and added the name of the poster you meant at the start of it. If not, forgive me and ignore my words if you deem them harsh in anyway.
  2. JUMA, I don’t want to get dragged into an Islamic discussion here because as you’ve already seen in this thread, people are mixing man-made politics and logic with faith. However, I felt I needed to finish your last sentence: Lets not mince our words as said by Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi "This is not suicide, it is martyrdom in the name of God." When he gave this Fatwa, he went into great details explaining why he did and what were the reasons he thought these guys were martyrs. One of these was the fact that All Israelis are required by law to do their national service (18 months or so of Army service). He reasoned that there is no such thing as an Israeli civilian. His Fatwa was specific to the Palestinian suicide bombers. It was not a general, fit-for-all Fatwa as far as I remember. I might be wrong of course and I might have misunderstood him. If I did, hope someone will correct me and Allah will forgive me. PS The guy who started this thread may at this point decide to change the title to “ What is your opinion of Suicide Bombing†instead of the current and very misleading title. Over and out.
  3. هيا ايه العباره بالظبط يا جماعه؟ الراجل ده جايب معاه شيشه وحجات الواحد ما ÙŠÙهمهاش Ùˆ عامل Ùيها Ùتوه الحته ليه؟ اكيد دا اخو الادمن...ايوه هوا اخو الادمن..انتوا مش شايÙين صورته والعيل الامور اللي Ùيها شبه الادمن ازاي؟ سلام يا باشا..منور..عدم المؤخذاه يا سعادة البيه...انا خشيت عليك عرض شويه بلا احم ولا دستور...انا حسيبك انجونجي من مواليد شبرا Ùˆ خريج دÙعة السبعه وتسعين من مدرسة ام الطوب العريقه....انتا تعرÙها؟
  4. NGONGE, I honestly tried to look at it from your point of view, but there's no way on this earth I can justify, tolerate or accept that 'its ok' to be slapped (just the once, mind) which seems to be what your implying in your posts. There's every reason to end a marriage after the first slap, because if you don't leave after the first one, you surely won't be leaving after the second! I know you did sister. You also ended up agreeing with every point I made. As I said, this is a very sensitive topic and I don’t blame you for digressing into the greater implications of domestic violence and stating your total hatred for such a disease. However, in doing so, you misunderstood me again and took my words out of context. I don’t agree, condone, tolerate or accept domestic violence. I don’t defend it. I don’t encourage it. In short, I despise this whole vile concept. I hope I was being very clear there in explaining my position in regards to domestic violence in general. These views are also the same ones I apply to other acts, such as murder, theft, rape and the like. This is the position I take whenever I’m asked about any of these “crimesâ€. However, when I’m given a situation and asked to pass judgment on it (even if that situation is a personal one) my views change. I can’t demand the execution of a murderer without fully investigating the case he’s accused of; I can’t cut off the hands of a thief without catching him “red handedâ€; I can’t punish someone accused of rape just because I hate rape! This is why I picked on the one-dimensional comments of “ if my husband hits me; I’ll leave him even if we had a hundred childrenâ€. This is also why I persisted with this topic and tried to show my fellow posters how emotionally driven their “opinions†were. It’s not for my amusement, for my love of pointless arguments or out of some overt sexism. It was for fairness. Someone being slapped is nothing short of assault. It’s unfair. What’s more unfair though is to pass “of the cuff “ judgments in isolation! This type of “conventional wisdom†is unhealthy in such debates. It spreads and becomes standard. It should not be encouraged. This is one of the reasons why I asked for the issue not to be personalised. I hope you understand me clearly now and know where I’m coming from (though I feel none of this “explaining†was necessary and that this way of viewing matters should be second nature to all). Now, if you want to talk about the issue of domestic violence in general and its effects on families, victims and society we can do that and make as many assumptions and suppositions as we like. It would be a whole new topic that has nothing to do with my question to the original poster. Salafi, there you go with another total certainty on an issue completely unrelated to the one on hand. I’m afraid I’m not going to engage you in an Islamic “argument†on this occasion. Emotions clouding logic on some human problems can be irritating and render the whole discussion pointless. However, when these same emotions are used to argue points of faith and the understanding of faith, things become a lot more convoluted! I have to confess to my cowardice here and decline the offer of accumulating more sins by attempting to apply our faulty logic to the words of the almighty or taking them out of context. You, my friend, are free to post a hadeeth or “fatwa†on the subject; though I beg you to resist the temptation and not get provoked into a subsequent contest over what you post.
  5. As I’ve already stated, my Arabic grammar is not as good as it used to be. I however was more than sure that the phrase was correct grammatically but didn’t want to jump in with no proofs. I decided to use the great google and brush up on my grammar a little. I came across these few verses: ولما رأيت الجهل ÙÙŠ الناس Ùاشيا تجاهلت حتى قيل إني جاهــل Ùواعجبا كم يدعي الÙضل ناقص Ùˆ وأسÙا كم يظهر النقص Ùاضل Dangerous, with all due respect brother, both phrases are widely used in the Arabic language. The phrase Mutakalim employed here is the more popular of the two. I wouldn’t want to assume things here nor point fingers but when using google, as we all do from time to time, it’s only fair to give credit where credit is due, saaxib. Again, it’s entirely possible that this is simply a coincidence! Edited: Link removed.
  6. Tell me now if the thought of instantly ending a marriage after one slap is so outragious. Not in the context you describe, it’s not. The context you describe is of a newly married couple that have had their first argument and the man slapped his wife in anger (you didn’t say they’re newly married and you didn’t say it was their first argument but that’s what your words imply – all that stuff about bringing children into such a marriage). We’re talking about the original issue though, the one where the sister said she’ll walk out after the first slap even if she had a hundred children by her husband, remember? Well, if we were talking about that one, a one slap and the marriage is over would be a very outrageous claim to make. Surely you realise that! Lets move to your case instead, lets talk about the scenario you’ve chosen, Aeryn. You are saying that you would walk out after the first slap because you “suspect†that it will not be the last, right? So, the walking out will not be done out of anger and hurt pride. It would be done because you would have thought about it and reached the conclusion that if he hits you once, he’s likely to hit you again! Maybe I’m being slow or maybe it’s just because I’m not a woman, but, bear with me and try to help me understand. What I don’t understand is if this person is your husband (even if for one day) and you supposedly know what he’s like (might even mistakenly think that you love him), wouldn’t you think that all of this will come into play when making the decision to leave after the first slap? (The slap has taken place, it’s done already. Your face is crimson red. You’re crying (or in some cases, sitting on top of him and biting his nose off). ) Now, taking away all the feelings of anger that go through your mind as you think of what to do next, what, other than the suspicion that he’s going to offend again gives you the total conviction that he’ll do so? What other than anger (and rightly so) makes you completely adamant that you’ll never go back to him again? I mean, lets look at all the other incentives to keep you with him: you love him, he’s never slapped you before in his life, he’s ashamed, dejected and begging for forgiveness, etc. Don’t tell me that you wouldn’t at least give the situation some serious thought! You’re probably wondering why have I chosen to give you an “emotional†scenario when I’ve already expressed my dislike of such forms of discussion. I finally succumbed my dear, if I can’t beat them, I might as well join them. Here is another worse scenario: Lets assume that the couple have been married for a number of years with no “slaps†taking place. Lets say it does happen one day. They have children. The wife is shocked and distraught at being slapped for the first time in their marriage! She does not want to stay with this aggressive animal anymore. She makes up her mind to leave him. She suspects that now he “learned†how to use his hands, he might make a habit of it and that she does not want to live such a life – are you nodding your head in agreement wit her conclusions yet? – She moves out (or kicks him out). People gather round her, some tell her that she’s right and others tell her that even though she’s right in being angry she should give it another try, after all it’s only the first slap in a long and peaceful marriage! Eventually, she calms down and can think straight. She thinks of her future, her children’s future, etc... Again, would you say that woman would not review the situation and see if she can’t make a go of it with a few conditions of her own? Just in case these assumptions of ours get all messed up and confused, lets also assume that because we’re talking about the woman “leaving†after the first slap, the man still wants her to stay (I had to clarify that before some clever sod came up with the “clever†revelation that the man might not want her back, and ruin the discussion). This is what I’m reading in your words. Your whole arguments tilts heavily towards the theory that every person who falls into the pit of domestic violence is someone with violent tendencies who will offend again! In isolation, that theory is not a bad one to have. But when you add up all the ingredients that make up a marriage, a simple theory like the one you staunchly defend makes no sense at all and hinders amicable solutions rather than encourage them. Surely there is a middle ground, one where domestic violence is loathed and discouraged while still attempting to reconcile marriages after the first slap? If we get over this first slap fixation we might even agree on how awful and ghastly the second one is.
  7. I thought you were the Aunt here! Come on, do you job and give her a proper “edio†telling off. Gabadhan nin ba maskaxda ka xaday, eido. Maahmah ama borambor sheekadan ku saabsan meyanad dhinceeda o turin?
  8. نقل Ùؤادك حيث شئت من الهوا ما الحب الا للحبيب الاول كم منزل ÙÙŠ الارض يالÙÙ‡ الÙتي وحنينه ابدا لاول منزل This is a verse from an Arabic poem, SS. It seems to describe what you’ve written above. The story of the poem, if I remember it correctly, was about a woman who was informed of her husband marrying another woman (doesn’t apply to you), she replied with these verses to him. Quick translation: Let your heart roam wherever you may desire it to (in adoration) Love is not but for your earliest loving Countless abodes does a young man grow accustomed to But he always yearns for that first dwelling I suppose the “young man†in the poem can also be a young woman. PS Arabic readers may at this point, decide to show some mercy and excuse my feeble attempt of translating these verses (I doubt any amount of translation will convey them in all their splendour). English speakers on the other hand, can also pardon my “rhyming†drivel. Hope you got the aim of the poem though, Silent Sister.
  9. They're comparing him to Pele now! :eek:
  10. Xaragow, thanks Mutakalim, it’s not often that my words meet your approval, saaxib. I’ll treasure this moment but cautiously sidestep the tricky twist at the end of your post. Sheherazade, do you see now why I asked for the issue not to be personalised? I don’t think you do, but hope that, in due course, you’ll come to see things from my side of the fence and realise that nothing I posted was done as an attack on any persons here or an attempt to rile people for my personal pleasure (well, apart from the bit where I exchanged "theories" with the sister above). LayZieGirl, wouldn’t you come to my rescue if I requested it? :eek:
  11. I wouldn’t want to assume, so could you please confirm that what you’re saying is that in a marriage when a couple fall out and one of them slaps the other for the first time the marriage should end?
  12. Hey look! We're making progress! See how easy it is when you put your mind to it? Now, a little advice for future use, always try to accompany your posts with such information. Never assume that anyone reading your posts knows what you’re talking about or which prior assumptions you’ve made. Of course, you slipped up at the end and undid all your good work by making another assumption about me sticking up for abusers. I stuck up for proper and correct ways of discussing serious issues. Be it Domestic Violence or anything else. The fact that you don’t “like†something does not make it right. You have to always try to give explanations and proofs to back up your contentions. Otherwise, people will accuse you of being emotional and impulsive. Still, we’re making progress, so I’ve got to give credit where credit is due. Now, you’ve given the reasons why you despise domestic violence, good reasons they were too. However, do these apply across the board? Or are you too following Sheherazad’s example of emphasising the bad points to deter impressionable young boys? Remember, we were talking about the first “slap†ending a marriage, we were not talking about the first time a woman is put in hospital or anything of the sort. Would your list above apply to such things then? Or, like the sister above, are you going to skirt round the issue and say that you’ve been talking only about the “bad†guys all along? (See? I’m making assumptions here but they’re done in the form of a question for you to reply to - I really should start getting paid for this free service).
  13. I thought you guys got the message and would come back with some stronger replies. That emotional monster is hard to tame, eh? Well, let me talk to you one at a time, maybe the “personal†touch would help. You have kidnapped the whole topic and killed the fun because you intentionally put yourself in the line of fire and manipulated everybody else into directing their anger, disappointment and frustrations at you because you are the most argumentative person of the lot and it would have been stimulating to read you arguing with yourself because most of the time you end up doing just that and we are cruel enough to leave you get on with it when we know we should offer some sort of help to save you from yourself. What was that all about, saaxib? Are you still playing those violins? I kidnapped the whole topic and “killed†the fun? Don't deny the fact that people are not programmed to think alike and not everybody including men like to see woman beaten up by a man so it is in everybody's best interest if you would accept that not all men think like you and not all men like to watch Indian movies and accept the fact that there are some men who would rather watch Cricket than Indian Movie. People not agreeing is not a problem, saaxib. What’s a real problem is when people confess to having views on something yet are too lazy to substantiate those views. It gives the impression that they have not reached that view on their own but rather are recycling the thoughts and conclusions of others. The girl that set me off said that she would leave her husband the minute he dared to slap her. It’s a fair opinion to have but she never said why when I asked her. In fact, for all I know, for her, that was just a passing comment she posted in a hurry. She didn’t reply to my question yet. Others did though. They took it upon themselves to reply to this insolent woman beater (me). But, did they give any good arguments for the beliefs they hold? Sorry, I should not ask you such an unfair question, you were one of them after all (pay attention girls, this one is male so save me the sexism rubbish). Now lets move to our resident private investigator. Again, she posted another emotional reply. It’s full of accusations and assertions but no substance whatsoever. I dare you to give one reply (long or short) that is not directed at me but at the topic itself and that is coherent and gives your full reasons why you think Domestic Violence is wrong. I’m daring you because I don’t think you can. I think you got all your opinions from TV or friends. Someone else did the thinking and you just added your own spices to it (emotions). Are you up to the challenge? Come on, people, and raise your game a little. This is simple stuff really. If you’re going to say wife beating is wrong (which of course it is) you need to give good and valid reasons why you think it is. Do not assume that your readers will agree with you just because Jerry Springer thinks it’s wrong. Do not make the point that a slap will always be followed by a punch and that will always be followed by a good and through beating without “showing your workingsâ€. For if you decide to do so and call it a discussion, don’t be surprised if someone picks you up on it. Again, this is really simple stuff. Now, I see that some of you got upset (see? Didn’t call you emotional this time) but you really shouldn’t. Come back at me, prove me wrong. Give me one sensible reply (Sheherazde and Ayrun are excused). Damsel, Thanks for the suggestion if this discussion carries in this dull vein your wish might yet come true. As for agreeing to disagree, no can do my dear. I have not been presented with anything that I could agree or disagree to. Emotional posts are not classed as debates (not in my book anyway).
  14. I thought we sorted things out and were doing so well! Ah well, some people are happy to turn things into arguments. I’ll let you win this one, Sheherzad. The task I set out to accomplish was done with not one post from you but two! The hissy fit in between is a small price when compared to the fact that you finally explained yourself (for my benefit or anyone else’s does not really matter). Like I said, thanks again. Now don’t go forgetting that successful formula, wont you.
  15. Finally! A result. Now, sister, without taking offence or treating this as a point scoring exercise. Go back and read your first reply then read your last reply and see the huge difference between the two. You’re making a whole lot of sense in your final reply where your first was full of assumptions and following a straight line (one which you’ve constructed). I only “personalised†the issue once others started it. My aim was never to argue fruitlessly or look down at anyone with moral indignation. However, once I saw that the discussion would follow the same old lines of “ this is wrong and that’s thatâ€, I had to up the stakes a little. I’m glad to see it’s bearing fruit. Thanks and no offence again. PS The examples I gave were meant to sound that way (i.e. absurd).
  16. Ngonge, I can't help but think that since ur so gung-ho in making excuses for abusers, that maybe, just maybe, u have made that mistake in ur life, (ie, may have hit ur wife), and repented, and u dont like being reminded or suggested that a man that hits once is most likely gonna hit twice. just a theory, sorry if im assuming, but i couldnt help but ask. In any case, the majority of us who've responded to u have stated a like-minded opinion and its wrong to label us emotional just because we've countered ur arguments, but interestingly and ironically, u seem the most emotional since u seem to plead for the understanding of the abuser and why he might have chosen to hurt his wife, while completly dismissing the repercussions of that "little" slap. x-quizit, I can’t help but think that since you’re so gung-ho in arguing the case for ending a marriage after the first slap, that maybe, just maybe, you have witnessed such a thing in your life (i.e. your father hitting your mother), and hated it, and you don’t like being reminded or suggested that a man who hits his wife should be given a second chance. Just a theory, sorry if I’m assuming, but I couldn’t help but ask. :rolleyes: Now, that we traded “ theories†lets get back to the discussion. You deny the fact that you’re letting your emotions speak for you here, yet, that’s all I could see in your analysis of this topic. What was it you wrote again? Ngonge, u do indeed sound like u are making excuses for domestic violence, reducing it to "just a slap" no big deal attitude. A slap leads to a punch and that leads to more serious and perhaps physically damaging behavior, but more importantly, the "lil' slap" does more damage to the psyche than anything else. Scars may go away, but emotional abuse doesnt, and it isn't right to reduce it or make excuses for it. That was in reply to the fair question of how would a slap rate in your list of things that would end a marriage! Go back and read it then tell me how was I “reducing†or making excuses for it! :confused: Emotions - this is the most polite explanation I could have for these feeble replies, you see. The replies are articulate enough and have some coherence so I could not accuse the posters of being dim-witted, can I now? – Sometimes help in a discussion, when you’re passionate about something, you use that passion to argue your case RATIONALLY and prove your point to be the right one. Emotions of the kind I see here are nothing but the stuff we see in a Jerry Springer show, a load of hot air! No attempt is made to engage the mind; rather it’s all aimed at the heart. It’s all about the poor woman who got beat and how psychologically damaging all that is (reinventing the wheel perchance?). If that were presented in context it would have been fine. However, to apply the “one slap and you’re out†principle to all cases of domestic violence and not substantiate such a contention is nothing short of folly and shortsightedness. Again, I clearly stated that my argument was not for animals that regularly beat their spouses. Any sane person would tell you that the wife would be better off by abandoning such a husband. My argument was about the millions of others (be it men or women) who lose their cool in a domestic quarrel and lash out with their hands. Would that instance of lashing out deem the marriage obsolete regardless of any other factors? If such were the case, then there is no point in people getting married at all. Marriage, you see, is a sacred institution. It should not be tossed aside lightly. Of course, there might be some women out there who believe a slap is all it should take to end the marriage, but I bet you that even those women will still think twice before deciding to throw it all away. This “talk show†attitude to real life problems is very unhealthy and leads to the break up of homes. People like you on this website, the supposedly educated and “intelligent†lot, should be able to use your common sense and logic (no matter how basic it might be) to view such issues. Statements such as “ if he hits me I’ll show him the door†single out the “hitting†part and do not address the reasons for the hitting or the situation that led to the “hitting†taking place. If you go around spreading such attitudes you’ll damage many homes out of a misplaced sense of pride and emotional opinions (if you possess any other forms of judgment I’m yet to see them, so excuse the characterisation). At least Ayren Sun kept her emotions slightly under control. She stated her total revulsion for the idea of being struck (and rightly so) yet she stated that if she should ever get hit in her marriage, she would end it (which is a bit too emotional and impulsive) or she’d REVIEW it (which is the most sensible thing she wrote in that reply). In life, you often come across situations where you’re presented with two bad choices and you’re forced to make one. Which one do you choose? Do you follow your heart or mind? If you decide to follow one side, do you do it because it’s the right one? How do you know it’s the right one? Do you think about both sides first and compare the pros and cons or do you flip a coin? In some of the replies above and the way they were presented, it looks like they’ve flipped a coin!
  17. I did not find the idea of a list shocking. I found the use of the word 'secret' surprising. What could be so surprising about having violence at the top of a list of marriage breakers? It IS about subjugation and dominance. Why else would a man need to resort to this kind of behaviour? He does it to get what he wants when he wants, just the way he wants. Alcohol, drugs, stress may go along with violence but they don't cause it. There is an intention to carry out the violence outside of these other factors. “Secret list†was merely a figure of speech. We’re back into sticking our own boundaries and limitations to this discussion. Your words paint a picture of a man who beats his “innocent†wife for enjoyment. They cover only one area of domestic violence. Are you saying all cases of domestic violence follow this line? I asked you about your opinion, Ngonge. It is a personal one, as is mine. I don't remember attacking you so why the gripe? How about u tell us about the other possibilites(a slap stops at a slap) instead of coming only to your defence? No gripes. When I said don’t personalise the issue, that’s just what I meant. For when you do, you appeal to my merciful and human side. You pose a hypothetical question about what I would do if my daughter were the one being hit! Faced with such questions, most people would struggle in giving a rationale answer. “My daughter being hit? I’ll kill the *****â€. Someone else followed the same line and mentioned mothers and sisters! If we put ourselves bang in the middle of a problem, we wont see the wood for the trees. I absolutely believe in the saying "Real Men Don't Hit Women" and between a man and a woman there should only be "Love" and never "Fear" but "Respect" and you can talk for the rest of your life and say whatever you want but you will never make me accept and agree that you can love some one without respecting that person because this person isn't your enemy but your loving wife, your companion so why would you even consider hurting this person who has dedicated all her energy, time and chose to spend for the rest of her life in loving you and you only? Oh, bring out the violins, wont you! :rolleyes: This sort of waffle is what destroys marriages, saaxib. Humans are not perfect. Arguments take place, they fall out, they fight. They don’t talk to each other for days. It seriously is not some sort of Indian movie(even though they usually kiss and make up at the end of these fights). Since most of those replying have decided to make their own assumptions on this complex and difficult topic, let me make some of my own. Lets flip the coin and talk about a man who dedicated his life, energy and time to his wife only to come home one day and find her sleeping with the milkman! :eek: Wouldn’t you expect him to hit her and use her body as a trampoline? He might even murder her lover too. What about one who is faced with a wife brandishing a knife at him? Should he run or disarm her with a slap or two? See how absurd my stories sound? I could play devil’s advocate all night and present you with as many emotionaly based scinarioes as the ones you would post. Would they get us anywhere though? Emotions, emotions, emotions! That’s what passes as a discussion on these parts. The ironic thing about all of this is that emotions also play a big part in cases of domestic violence! Now lets get serious: We all agree that domestic violence is WRONG. I also assume that we agree that when there is room for a discussion, then it’s wrong for either party in a marriage to resort to violence. Let’s make this our starting point in the discussion. We agree on the fundamentals of it. However, what are your opinions when it comes to the grey areas. What happens when a perfectly good marriage faces some sort of crisis and violence suddenly rears its ugly head? Will you still say a slap ends a marriage? Like I said, this topic is not as black and white as some of you seem to view it. Maybe if we were talking about some known thug with previous history of violence we can make the correct assumption that this guy will “hit†again. However, to decide on the first slap that an entire marriage should end is a very short sighted thing. Don’t you believe in a person’s ability to repent? Like I said in my earlier post, a man who beats his wife for enjoyment or to display his superior physical strength is an animal. I’m not here to talk about animals. I’m here to talk about ordinary couples that fall out because of domestic violence and the best ways to deal with such situations. Are there any other solutions? PS Aeryn, Yes you did. No room for compromise in your case I hear. I guess that in your case, the words “Never say never†make no sense.
  18. My Arabic grammar is slightly rusty these days; however, I see nothing grammatically wrong with that sentence. He expressed his astonishment at this thread. It now seems that someone else is astonished at his astonishment! The allegation seems even more absurd when you see the obvious lack of supporting substantiation. I suppose there is nothing else here to add other than: Ùيا لله العجب! ولله ÙÙŠ خلقه شؤون :rolleyes:
  19. Ngonge, violence always starts small and it ends big and bad. Always? Subjugation and dominance, that's what it's about. That’s one hell of a statement to make, don’t you think? So, in your opinion, this is a black and white case. There are no shades of grey at all? At the very first sign of violence the whole thing should be ended! Fine. That I assume will also apply to men who use subjection and dominance without reverting to violence, men who know how to mentally torture their wives. I honestly can not believe u said this. Wouldn't u want this 'secret' to be on the top of yr daughter's list? Heh. I had a feeling that the discussion will be personalised, which is why I put the disclaimer at the end of my last post. Nevertheless, what I’d want for my daughter and what she’ll want for herself are two different things. I’d put violence top of her list of course. She on the other hand, might decide that cheating is worse; she might decide that an absent husband is worse; she might decide that a second wife is worse; or, she might agree with me and decide that a daily beating is the worst thing that might happen to her. I still can’t see why you found the idea of a list so shocking!
  20. lol@^^^ You remind me of this lady: Day two in the Walalo Yar house: Febaaro is in the Kitchen making a Tuna Sandwich. Shoobaro is mowing the lawn. Seven of Nine and Barwaqo are in the diary room. They’re complaining about Qacbaro’s recent behaviour. Apparently, he doesn’t help them out with the dishes! Big Brother (the admin) can’t reply (because he’s a baby). J11 is talking on his behalf. He ignores their pleas and presents them with a new mini task. They have to sing the entire Somali national anthem in tune. Their gift, should they pass this task successfully, is a full basket of personal hygiene products (horood, xaba sood, indha cool, etc). OG-Girl wakes up late again and starts an argument with Febaaro for eating her Tuna! Juxa and Ameenah are in the bedroom. They’re gossiping about Sullen Su’s perfect skin. They’re wondering if she uses chemicals to assist her in keeping it that smooth and perfect! DA comes out the bathroom and starts arguing with Shoobaro on the correct method of mowing the lawn. The fire alarm has been activated. Febaaro has burned the toast again. PS I think I belong to 3,4,5,6(without the homework bit).
  21. raula, all the bits that have the same meaning in Somali and Sawahili are really Arabic words
  22. Ngonge, u do indeed sound like u are making excuses for domestic violence, reducing it to "just a slap" no big deal attitude. A slap leads to a punch and that leads to more serious and perhaps physically damaging behavior, but more importantly, the "lil' slap" does more damage to the psyche than anything else. Scars may go away, but emotional abuse doesnt, and it isn't right to reduce it or make excuses for it. Its like me asking u, would u leave if she takes just one ball away from ur privates? its just one, get over it.... Is it always the case that a slap would lead to a punch and the punch would lead to more serious behaviour? Are there no occasions where things would stop at a the slap stage? My question was put in a general sense with none of the limitations and assumptions that you’ve decided to attach to it. Of course, if things take place in the way you just described then there is really no point of me asking the question. A man who treats his wife like a punching bag is an animal that should be sectioned. However, what of the cases where things don’t go according to your vision of doom? What of the cases where a guy would slap his wife out of anger, stress, humiliation or whatever reason, but then repents the minute his hand connects with her face? My question was is the reaction going to be the same one on every occasion or do other factors come into play when making the decision to leave a POTENTIALLY abusive husband? So, is it the idea of being hit that’s going to end a marriage or the repetitive hitting? Conversely, if a guy gets hit by his wife (which I concede is not a popular occurrence) would he divorce her for the sake of his pride if it was just the once and there was every sign of it not being repeated? This is a serious issue and it deserves to be covered from every angle rather than the usual “men are animals†and “ women ask for it†rubbish. Comments such as “A marriage where a man slaps his wife is not a marriage and she should get rid of him†make lots of assumptions and conclusions. Surely this is not always the case? Maybe it is! But, since the topic was started, it would be a shame if we don’t try to discuss it rationally, wouldn’t you say? PS The discussion would run a lot more smoothly if we try not to personalise it or put ourselves in the characters shoes.
  23. However it may seem to you, have you noticed the way the structure resembles so much of society? It is like a mini island with all types of colorful characters. It is indeed like an island. We’re shipwrecked and running out of food. We’re not gifted fishermen/women. We need to eat! Cannibalism you say? Let us eat Mutakalim. Hmm, deliciously acidic! As for your kings and paupers, your analysis has some semblance of truth, but I prefer to class EVERYONE as foot soldiers in Nur’s anarchist army. :cool: Edit (because I saw Mutakalim's edit): My comments are ALL done in jest. Hope you don’t take them too seriously. Mia not Culpa, lakin kolay ba eska raali aho
  24. Heh. A slap a day makes you work, rest and play. Well, at least the judge had the sense to make the husband stop from beating his silly wife altogether. Still, I cant help thinking that some people will consider this wife to be some sort of retard while others will see her as a very clever heroine. and i don't care if we got million kids together, first day and i would be out of that house for good... Now, I’m not trying to justify domestic violence here, nor am I making any judgments. However, given a choice between the odd slap and the total breakdown of your marriage, would you seriously walkout the minute that slap is administered? If you had some sort of secret list of things that are totally unacceptable in a marriage, things that would instantly end a marriage, would a “beating†be top of that list? Seven of Nine, S&M = Sexni eyo Mafeeq - Anything goes... **Ducks**