I vividly remember that dark day in my life. Even now, almost fifteen years later, I still wake up in the middle of the night sweaty and disturbed by flashing dreams and disconcerting images. I was an adolescent youngster, inexperienced and carefree. Life was great and easy back then. I had just purchased my new Nintendo console and was eager to play the Super Mario game that all my friends were raving about. The phone rang. I ignored it. It carried on ringing and ringing. In the meantime, Super Mario was crushing all those turtles. My mother walked into the room, slapped my head and muttered something then answered the phone. I carried on playing my game. Some time went by before I sensed that something was not right with the room! My mother was not on the phone anymore! I turned round and looked at her (another turtle killed Mario). She was staring at me with an angry look! She waved the phone handle on my face and said, “It’s for YOUâ€. I panicked. Who could it be? I took the phone of her hands and uttered a tentative HELLO! It was my friend (Cali Matag). He heard about my new computer game and was asking if he could come over and play. I told him that he could. He said that he’d drop by in an hour’s time. I hurriedly agreed and impatiently tried to end the conversation so as to get back to my game. I said BYE. He said BYE. Just as I was about to put the phone down, I heard him say, “By the way, did you hear about the war in Somalia?†I hadn’t of course, but I quickly replied in the affirmative and hung up. Two weeks later, I was bored of my Super Mario game. The pointless guilt though, still remains. PS In reality of course I only found out about the war when the Somali guys I used to play football with used to discuss it and then turn to me and say “adna na xaggad ka qaxday?â€...for some reason “Carabta†was not a reply they appreciated!

^^^ Surely you jest!

^^^^I admire your faith and enthusiasm, saaxib (not a dig). Here we have a government based in another country, a cabinet made up of warlords and parasites and a president hated by most of his cabinet, yet you still persist in your argument that everything is going to be ok! If it was marginal warlords who were talking, I’ll understand how you could easily brush their comments aside. But, when it’s the Trade Minster and the Housing Minster who are coming out with comments undermining the efforts of their very own government, surely some alarm bells should be ringing in your head, saaxib! Still, I’m with you on one thing; the president will prevail in the end. He seems much shrewder, savvier and plays the politics game a lot better than these imbeciles. He’s going to use Ethiopian troops though, wont he?

^^^ ka soco, qoroxle..adi af somaliga kugu adag noooh PS I'm told that word means both things to different people. I can just imagine a woqoyi guy (like me) offering to “duug†a young kunfur girl (like you). I bet she’ll be shocked and call him a sexist pig. The burying of young Muslim girls was abolished over a thousand years ago, she’d say.

Heh. Imagine speaking “different†languages then imagine a caseer boy like me trying to decode both. Here is a story that happened to me along similar lines to your stories. I’m not sure if it will accomplish anything but I suppose you were after anecdotes anyway (apologies for the morbid story in advance). A few years back, my aunt passed away. After going to her burial, I came back with a friend to my local area. My friend decided to visit the Somali barbershop and get his hair cut and since I had nothing better to do, I decided to join him. We walked in and greeted the barber. He greeted us back and asked us why were our shoes muddy! We told him that we just came back from burying my aunt! He said that he heard about her passing away, gave his condolences, stared down to the ground in deep contemplation and then asked: “marka islanta ma duugteen?†In my primitive Somali, I understood the word “duugis†to mean giving someone a massage! I thought about his words and assumed that he was talking about first aid! I smiled, shook my head and told him that the old woman was already dead. He smiled and said “lakin ma duugtin?†I was starting to lose my temper and told him that she was dead, no more, passed away, gone! No amount of “duugis†would bring her back. I told him to watch what he’s saying and have some respect for the dead. Plus, how did he expect my to give my aunt a rubdown anyway? What did he think I was? My friend who was keenly following this argument, finally decided to step in and tell me that “duugis†means “burial†in that part of the world and not a “massageâ€! Alwaax fooqal alwaax nooh. :mad:

Welcome to the site, friend. I’m not going to attempt to reply to any of your questions for the fear of misleading you or, worse still, getting the zealots (using the modern meaning here) on my back and yours. Your questions are valid and I’m sure that many others that visit this site have had similar questions in the past (or still do). My advice to you and them is to look up the answers in trusted Islamic websites. There are plenty on the net and I’m certain that a fair number of them have addressed these questions of yours already. Sadly, and as you’ll come to find out when you’ve spent some time with us, emotional opinions are rife on these parts and the chances are that you’ll be misled instead of enlightened, my friend. Still, there is no harm in reading whatever replies you get and sifting through the good and the bad. Welcome again and keep your wits about you, friend.

^^^ That's my girl *** Walks out with pride ***

HornAfrique, I see you decided to quote me there, saaxib. I could only assume that what followed my quote was also directed at me! I shall ignore your mention of “others†and the rest of your ill-thought arguments for a minute, and instead, I’ll deal with your praise of this man and your (yet again) uninformed understanding of dictatorships! Yes, dictatorships are ruled by a strong man (not run mind you), and yes he usually selects ministers that will not question his orders. However, the testimonies of various dictators, lackeys and army officers throughout the ages tell us that most dictators are not aware of the day-to-day running of their countries. These helpless “yes†men, in most cases, were dictators themselves. In fact, if you go around and ask the citizens of countries that were under the rule of dictatorships, you’ll find that most will give you names of Prime Ministers, Defence Ministers, Security directors or Army generals as being the men that the citizens most feared! When you delve deeper into things and attempt to apportion blame, you’ll find that contrary to what you believe, a dictatorship is indeed not just a one-man-show, saaxib. This tribe and clan business is a very convenient coat hanger and a despicable one at that. You either believe that the man, in his capacity as a senior member of the former regime, should be answering for and questioned on his part in these crimes or you don’t. If you do, you do so because you believe in Justice and want to see it taking place (regardless of the tribal side-show and motives). If you don’t, then it’s not about “fairnessâ€, “Justice†or “equal punishmentâ€. It’s all about expediency, pragmatism and “real politicâ€! Your argument then should really be about wanting to preserve sanity, save the nation from unhelpful acts of retribution or even the benefits of reconciliation. All these, whilst not discounting the original miscarriage of justice, at least have a logical goal (i.e. the halting of further injustices and the containment of hatred). You, sadly, have chosen not to follow either of the two options. Instead, you chose to doggedly follow your tribal instincts! There are many precedents in political history and international law of similar cases, saaxib. The Bosnian conflict is still being debated in The Hague. They caught the big guy, the former Serbian president but are still trying to catch some of the generals (almost ten years after the conflict ended). If we go by your logic, Slobodan Milosevic should not be tried because the others (Karadzic being one) have not been caught yet! World War Two and the Nuremberg trials also followed the same pattern and many former Nazi commanders, Ministers and even low-level soldiers were tried. Some received death sentences, some prison sentences and others were acquitted! That was not the end of the trials though and not every Nazi was dealt with in Nuremberg (many fled Germany and were pursued for years). Some were caught and tried in the 1960s (almost 20 years after the war). Again, the condemn one, condemn them all principle of yours was not applied here. Even General Pinochet who was a dictator, was alleged to have killed thousands of his countrymen, was accused of “disappearing†many others but was never tried in his own country and never got in trouble after losing the presidency, had to deal with disgruntled Chileans in Spain who filed for his extradition from the UK and wanted him tried for all these alleged crimes! He of course got away with it (for reasons of pragmatism and practicality). Not once in all these cases have the supporters of the accused use justice as an argument, why then are we trying to excuse the inexcusable by spitting out words such as fairness and justice to support our opposition to the trial of this man? I suggest that people (those with or against) re-examine their understanding of such concepts as fairness, justice and righteousness before ascending their pulpits and moralising on hypocrisy and double standards.

^^^ Was the case brought to court by the Somaliland Ambassador to the UN, saaxib? He was wrong to do that. They should have had a referendum in Somaliland and gave the people the chance to decide whom to sue. I for one would have voted for suing Kofi Anaan for ignoring our case for recognition. We all know he hates Somalilanders because when he was a young university student in Moscow, he tried to chat up a Somali girl and she turned him down. He always had a grudge against us ever since. But someone ought to tell him that the wadaad girl that turned him down was not even from Somaliland. Anyway, let you and me agree that vindictive Kofi is not a saint.

QL, this is mere decoration, saaxib. We’re talking about a country that had to deal with civil war for more than a decade. It was always going to be the case that whoever finally managed to be elected president would have huge powers. A rule by committee in a country like Somalia is unlikely to yield many results. The president has to have some leverage and power (in words at least) to control that country and steer it in the right direction. It’s not nice and it’s open to abuse but it’s the only way under the circumstances. If it remains the same in ten or fifteen years of peace and stability, it will be the time to start worrying. Now though, what’s the worst that could happen that already has not?

What a farce! :rolleyes: Why are people trying to defend the indefensible here? :confused: As I understand it, the man was a senior member of the old dictatorial regime of Siyad Barre. Everyone here seems to agree on that fact. He resides in the West (again, all are in agreement here). I would also wager that most (some reluctantly) will not dispute the atrocities that took place in Hargeisa under the rule of the former regime. Strangely enough, all are also in agreement that most of those who were part of the old government should be sued for similar crimes (the courts will find their guilt or innocence)! The problem here is that ALL are not living in the West and the long arm of the law can’t reach them. Where they reside, they are the LAW! If people want to sue president Riyaale, they should try to mount a case in the Somaliland courts (it would be a great test of the trumpeted democracy in that part of the world. Heh). If people want to sue others, they can petition the new government of Somalia (Heh). Of course, the flimsiness of the paper-thin argument of “selective justice†is all apparent because it’s based on the assumption that people are suing out of a sense of justice and not bitterness! Maybe it’s nice to forgive, but it’s NEVER an obligation. If some individuals have a case against that person, they are free and within their rights to pursue that individual without having to worry about where “others†are and the fact that they’re not being sued. If the former president was living today and residing in America, many people will be trying to sue him too (though I doubt they‘ll win). In fact, I suspect that if any of these “others†were here in the West they would have been looking behind their backs by now and wondering when will the tit-for-tat campaigns would start! Alas, not many of them are in the West and those that are, will get caught sooner or later. The real question that many have expertly tried to avoid is one of JUSTICE. Do you actually believe in it? If there are bases for mounting a court case and the man is found guilty then, really, that’s all that’s needs to be said on this topic. If however, he’s found innocent, he can counter sue and the whole case becomes nothing but a storm in a teacup. To oppose the case on the basis of “others†guilt is extremely blinkered and irrational. :eek:

Originally posted by Duke_Valantino: NGOON quote: I hear that the AU is only offering 7000 soldiers! Surely that number is so small it wont even be adequate enough as a ceremonial guard for president Yusuf! Now we millitary experts huh. Of course you know better than the President of Somalia a millitary man all his life. The African forces are not occupiers but peace keepers. They will be boosted by Somali loyal groups from Hiiraan, Jowhar, Central regions, Bay&Bakool, Juba and Banadir. The foreign forces will bring the expertise thats lacking from the Somali troops. Of course I know better than him. Was that really a necessary question, saaxib? I’ll have you know that I’m great at Play Station and Chess (What more could a man want?). But, just in case you need more convincing, I also devotedly follow the BBC and all sorts of other news outlets (and the BBC says that greater generals (not colonels) have made bigger mistakes. On a serious note, this case of foreign troops in a lawless country is not the first nor will it be the last. The experience in Iraq if nothing else, tells us that it’s a difficult exercise. I could go on with much detail and gusto to finally convince you that this looks, smells and feels like a bad idea. But, I suspect that you already know that. Let us hope it works saaxib. PS Stop getting all paranoid and thinking every comment made is some sort of dig at uncle Abdullahi, saaxib.

When the inevitable clashes take place, how long will this outside force remain? Other than by the use of Air power, I seriously doubt that any organised army can cope with ragtag street fighters! I hear that the AU is only offering 7000 soldiers! Surely that number is so small it wont even be adequate enough as a ceremonial guard for president Yusuf!

Originally posted by Velvet Revolution: Aren't we inquisitive today? Yes, Miss

^^ I would love to hear more about your theory if you don't mind.

^^^ How dare you walk in here with your boots on? I agree with all that you’ve said though not in the same harshness. Whatever the reason the brother had to write those words, they came across as being very harsh and disproportionate to the sister’s comments. Still, unlike the charlatans that clumsily pour more gas on an already burning fire, let us come between them and make peace. For other than derailing the topic, this is also not the usual Nur style. Maybe it was a words thing, or he was in a bad mood or he was making a general point in a very convoluted way? Got to give credit to GnP for her dignified silence (yeah, yeah, I know she probably has not read this yet but I’m trying to cushion the blow).

At this point in time, I really don’t think it matters if he had said those words or not. The “Waxa la yedhi†bandwagon is in full flow and the man has been condemned, tried and sentenced. Some would say there is no smoke without a fire (or something to that effect). We are Somali and when it suits us, we defend the indefensible or criticize the blameless. What this man is reported to have said or didn’t does not trouble me much. He’s not really high on the list of those that I admire, which means his opinions don’t even register on my scales. What troubles me is the way such trivialities are reported and the hypocritical two-faced way people receive them. If anyone should be condemned and hanged it’s all these unethical reporters of such news. While you’re at it, add all those simpletons who take such reports as fact one day and question the integrity of the reporting the next (all because it does not reflect nicely on their side). If you can't be true to others, at least try to be true to yourself and stand for your principles (if you have any)! This man does not matter.

^^^ There are no great benefits there! Have you actually read the link? Anyway, I was not taking part in this discussion; I was just highlighting the fact that not many Somalis are “married†in the western sense.

^^^^ Since when did Somalis have their marriages registered, GnP? The laws of these lands prohibit multiple marriages not cohabitation. In the eyes of the laws of these lands, most Married Somalis (Muslims) are cohabiting rather than being really married. So, no laws are broken (I think). Edit: Asnwer: I started this thread to help others, in their faith and life, addressing taboos and untouchables topics, thinking outside of the box, I knew all along that I would be accused of having a personal agenda, which initially was not my idea, but after reading your witty response, and concidering my deep desire of increasing number of intelligent Somalis, I am seriously thinking of an exception to that rule, intelligent women like you can not be resisted, and knowing how convincing I can be in person, neither can a lady like you resist when i put together a value proposition, so convincingly that the only objection a lady can have would be to say "how soon"?. Much respect Nur Get your coat GnP, looks like you've pulled

^^^ He's buying none of it, saaxib.

^^^ How then did you and he make your estimates? Using the population estimate for the presidential election, Mr. Jirde said the H a r t i populations in the former British Somaliland are about 800,000 (20% of Somaliland pop.). Of that, only (“Fu’aad Aadan Cadde iyo Siddeetan reerkiisa ahâ€) eighty soldiers of Fu’ad’s sub-clan, are loyal for our cause (secession). That roughly translates 0.01% of the H a r t i population. Moreover, convincing Somaliland clan militia to stay at the front has proved to be a tall order. They (the militia) just wouldn’t stay at the front, Mr. Jirde said. You’re right; A 500 km border is an impossibly large zone to guard.

Apart from the hilarious and funny name calling (just as well they didn’t make use of slander laws), this sounds like an interesting political discussion. Did the people of the disputed territories take part in the presidential election? :confused:

^^^ I think Tolstoy already posted the article that’s being critiqued a few days back. It would be nice if we could have both articles in the same thread. This one on its own sounds slightly confusing without having read the other one, saaxib.

^^Unproductive my boot! That was my first post today, you trout! Jealousy does not suit you by the way. If you’re having problems coping with your job, drop me a line and I’ll give you a few hints about delegation, time management and know-how if you like.

^^^ You're no Nancy Sinatra m'dear You keep saying you've got something for me. something you call love, but confess. You've been messin' where you shouldn't have been a messin' and now someone else is gettin' all your best. These boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do one of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you. You keep lying, when you oughta be truthin' and you keep losin' when you oughta not bet. You keep samin' when you oughta be changin'. Now what's right is right, but you ain't been right yet. These boots are made for walking, and that's just what they'll do one of these days these boots are gonna walk all over you. You keep playin' where you shouldn't be playin and you keep thinkin' that you´ll never get burnt. Ha! I just found me a brand new box of matches yeah and what he know you ain't HAD time to learn. Are you ready boots? Start walkin'!