^^^ That's the type of future Mr Phanta, that is. If I were a woman, I'd send him congratulations cards, Eid cards, birthday cards. I'll be his pen pal in that lonely school. In a couple of years, he'll be 18 or 19 (six or seven years younger than you?). Jump in, woman.

^^^ Soz, I was so happy for the kid, I forgot to post the link. For you, my love. Source

Ame, you're probably going to walk past my office as you go on that demo. Watch out for a rotten banana

BY LYNDSAY EMMETT 10:30 - 11 April 2005 It is one of the most exclusive colleges in the world, with Princes William and Harry among its famous old boys. Now, Eton is getting ready to welcome Abdi Rahman Sudi into its privileged ranks. Moat Community College student Abdi, 16, has won a Joe Burrell bursary worth about £27,000 a year to study A-levels at the school, which was founded in 1440 by King Henry VI. His new uniform will be worth more than £1,000. The scholarship is funded by an anonymous well-wisher. Now the teenager, who is getting ready to sit his GCSEs this summer, says he cannot wait to start at his new school. "It is very different," he said. "The biggest difference is going to be boarding there and I will miss my teachers, family and friends." Abdi will study physics, maths, economics and Government politics. He had to sit four exams and endure tough interviews to win the hotly-contested place. Staff from Eton even visited Moat Community College, in Highfields, to get a feel for the place where Abdi was educated. Abdi and his family have lived in Leicester for almost five years and English is his third language. His mum, Osob, is thrilled with her youngest son's success. She said: "I am very proud of him. He has worked very hard." Abdi has his sights set high. "I would like to go to Cambridge University. Then I would like to go into a job in engineering or economics." Moat principal Freda Hussain said: "I always want our students to do well and when they do, we celebrate their success." Teacher Mark Mitchley helped coach Abdi ready for his interviews. He said: "The toughest part was getting Abdi to realise how well he was doing. He is very modest. I would ask him questions and ask him how he had done. He would say, 'okay' when he had performed brilliantly." Old Etonians include a Catholic saint, Prime Ministers, martyrs, famous scientists and explorers and world-famous writers and poets. Head master Tony Little said: "In a nutshell, we were very impressed with Abdi's determination to do well, and his character. At Eton, he will be boarding with 1,300 other boys and it will provide him with a huge range of choices and sporting and music opportunities, as well as high academic expectations." ----------------------------------------------- Dying to make some sort of comment here, but I will not.

^^ I already made my point. Time to take Tolstoy's advice and retreat now. But, before I do allow me the pleasure of bringing a smile to your face. "We believe that the comprehensive concept of human rights should be based on the realization that human communities have special characteristics, cultures, beliefs and religions, which must be acknowledged and respected. The Kingdom respects this international norm and adheres to the noble objectives that call for the protection of human rights and preservation of human dignity." Minister of Commerce Osama Faqih delivering Kingdom's statement to Earth Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa, September 3, 2002. In May 2003, Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal announced King Fahd's approval for the establishment of an independent human rights organization in Saudi Arabia. In October 2003, the Kingdom held a human rights conference entitled ‘Human Rights in Peace and War’. The conference concluded with the issuance of the 'Riyadh Declaration' which states that respect for human life and dignity is the foundation of human rights; that a human being deserves respect, regardless of race, color or sex; that violation of human rights is a crime deserving severe punishment; that to hold a human being in custody without legal basis is forbidden by Islamic laws; that disregard for privacy and property rights is a violation of human rights; and that tolerance of faith is required by Islam, which also prohibits coercing people to follow a certain religion. Source

^^^

Originally posted by Jumatatu: quote:Originally posted by NGONGE: By all means, protest, campaign and remonstrate against what you perceive to be a total miscarriage of justice, saaxib. However, you need to do it sensibly and responsibly. Tell me how sxb. So far am part and parcel of organising mass demo infront of Saudi Embassy's in Western capital cities and presenting a letter of protest signed by thousands of Somalis to these Embassy's. I'm also responsive and willing to listen to other ideas so please tell me of a more sensible and responsible way to register my anger and protest which I share with you ofcourse and other Somalis..thanx.. Nothing to criticise there, saaxib. In fact, I only have envious admiration for your optimism and quick action (though that’s not too hard seeing the ease with which our people ebb and flow). If there were anything I’d ask for, it would be to know the particulars of this case or at least the Saudi side of this story.

^^^ So many points to reply to, so little time! Let us get the offensive bits out of the way first. As for me being vulgar mr.NGONGE, one must communicate with another in a language they understand…wouldn’t u agree? The language I used seems to have failed here! Do you mean to say that you were ranting and wailing? You too have a thing for stating the obvious eh? There injustice taking place from Guatanamo bay to baidao. What makes you think I don’t care about these just as much? I would have loved to quote the Quran and show you where it says, if we witness any injustice/wrong doing, we are asked to voice against it (but I cant since I’m at work n religious sites are blocked!...maybe you should research and reflect on that?) You needn’t quote the Quran here (or the Hadith for that matter). For you have NOT witnessed an injustice, you merely were informed of a supposed one (not even second hand information). I take it that you have the complete information then NGONGE? Please share since you’re reacting as well. With regards to this particular case, there just isn’t enough information and that’s the primary reason so many people feel injustice has taken place. The whole thing was done and dealt with in complete murkiness. That’s really below your usual standards of discourse, Amethyst! My information is as good as yours. The difference being, I’m withholding judgment until I’m furnished with the whole facts, while you’re allowing yourself to be carried away with the rabble. Do you always make judgments based on incomplete information passed on by ultra sensitive individuals? There is a big difference between suspecting foul play and Knowing that it took place, wouldn’t you say? Based on that, would you say your views are balanced? I sympathise with those situations and if I were in a forum they were discussing it, would say so. What you fail to realize is that, its natural to be feel more connected to people of your own nationally/tribe/family and that “connection†strengthens as you go further down in the relationship hierarchy. I don’t even understand why you cited these examples (‘cept in the last one). They serve no purpose in your unconvincing argument. On the contrary, my dear! I realise and understand why people are “upset†about this situation. My examples were given to show you similar upsetting situations and people’s reactions to them (or rather overreaction). They’re all instances of moral panic. Such instances never deal with facts, full information or the “big pictureâ€; they only deal with the perceived injustice, very self-indulgent if you don’t mind me saying. Your constant reference to issues that may or may not carry sentimental value to some as “wailing†is just plain offensive. This is a forum – primary objective being discussing issues. No1 is “wailingâ€, merely voicing their opinions. It’s the only thing you can do here. It would be foolish for you to assume this is all that is done. And about pointing fingers – no response necessary. Heh. The intention was not to offend, though as you already know, should one be offended by my words, there is nothing I could do to stop them. You speak about voicing opinions as if all of these opinions were balanced and reasonable. Emotionally driven and sentimental opinions are nothing short of wailing, Amethyst. Wonder in silence or enquire are your only options eh? What about saying what I think? Do you have something against people voicing their opinions? This sounds like an angry rant to me. “Saying what I thinkâ€, “ Voicing their opinions†sounds extremely aggressive and sudden, as opposed to wondering (not necessarily in silence) and enquiring, wouldn’t you say? I have a slight suspicion that you understand my point but, like a rowdy class of pupils that sulk the minute the teacher comes in and calls for silence, you’re being stubborn.

^^^ I don’t agree on either count, saaxib. The Saudis, like any other despotic regime, do not take into account any external repercussions when making their arbitrary decisions. Note, that I’m following your reasoning and ignoring the fact that neither of us have enough information about this case. We’re going by the Saudis’ previous record of injustice here. Many quick-witted observers have compared the case of the Somali dead to those of westerners in Saudi jails. Of course, the glaringly obvious point they’ve missed to report was the fact that these westerners WERE in jail and many also faced the death sentence. Diplomatic efforts and outside pressures are what forced the Saudi rulers to issue pardons. The “superiority†you speak of is unproven here (though I believe it exists – like it does with every nation; see “carab waa naagoâ€). By all means, protest, campaign and remonstrate against what you perceive to be a total miscarriage of justice, saaxib. However, you need to do it sensibly and responsibly. Though I still believe it to be a waste of time and energy: an act of urinating against the wind as it were, still, if you believe such protests will yield results, go ahead and placate your sensitivity.

^^ Did you really? Neither the author, nor “my†comrades (well not all of them anyway) have told you that this whole thing is but a typhoon in an oyster shell, dear. Could you understand that one? It’s the usual case of moral panics. Did you cry when princess Diana died? And, since you’re in the UK, shall I mention Jessica and Holly, Sarah whatever her name and the various other similar cases! No, hang on; let me return to my favourite subject, poor old ZamZam (remember her?). You see, Amethyst, such “injustices†take place in the world all the time. There are countless stories, tragedies and unfair practises occurring all the time. The reaction to such instances is what’s important. To just wail and point fingers is not a sign of a healthy society. Your articles above both overreact, like most of the people here, to incomplete information. In the case of Amnesty international, that’s just the way they’ve always been. The whole point of such an organisation is to push, cajole and magnify any examples of injustice so that they could help to banish them. Still, someone has to step back and see things for what they are. There is nothing NEW about executions in Saudi Arabia, nothing sacred about Somali lives that would say, “Execute all the others but don’t touch our Somalisâ€. In other words, in the usual scheme of things, the Saudi justice system did what it always does. This time the “accused†happened to be Somali! Should one have sympathy and wonder (note the use of this word) about the correctness of the punishment? OF COURSE. Should one enquire as to how such injustice should be stopped? IT WOULD BE A FAIR ENQUIRY. Should one wail and rant and lose his/her head with the vulgar? NOT IF ONE HAS ANY SENSE.

Case closed? Six men were killed and you close the case this easy? Have you no heart?

^^^^

^^ Heh. The Spanish have arrested a few Muslims without charge (like in camp x). I suggest you don't go to Portugal as a sign of protest. :rolleyes:

She opened her makeup bag and took out the lipstick. She slowly started applying it to her mouth. She looked in the tiny hand mirror, looked again. Applied some more lipstick and put both the mirror and lipstick back in the bag. In the bag, the lipstick was getting pummelled by the soggy tissue. The mascara and the mirror tried to intervene, the foundation and eye shadow tried to shelter the poor lipstick, but the soggy tissue was having none of it. It wrapped itself round the poor lipstick and spilled its guts all over the insides of the bag! The mascara and eye shadow were wailing and the colour was flooding the bottom of the bag. The mirror despondently sat back and reflected on the whole grim scene. This was a familiar scene. The soggy tissue was in love with the girl and always felt jealous when a new lipstick arrived and within minutes, was caressing his beloved’s lips! Every night, the poor soggy tissue would lie down in the bottom of the makeup bag and look up at the shiny zipper above. In that star-like metal, he would always hope to suddenly see her face. In the calm of the night, he would remember the days when he was a young and fresh tissue. He’d remember the way she used to pick him up and stroke him on her sensual and rosy cheeks. With such sweet memories, his endless tears will start seeping out and his sogginess will again, verge on the point of becoming a full-blown flood. The soggy tissue had no friends. He was all alone in this overpopulated makeup bag! The rest of the residents have all decided to ignore him because of his aggressive tendencies. He didn’t care for their companionship, nor wanted their sympathy. All he cared about was the girl. Will she ever favour him again? Does she even know he exists? Is there another tissue out there taking up all her time? Could there be another tissue that would love her as much as he does? Yesterday, early in the morning, the makeup bag was suddenly opened while everyone was fast asleep! At the sound of the zipper being undone, the soggy tissue was the first to rise. The piercing rays of the sun almost blinded him (or was that her lovely face?). She picked up the dying lipstick and tried to apply it to her mouth. The lipstick struggled to smoothly walk the hills and valleys of her lips. It smeared the corners of her lips and almost veered into her nose! The soggy tissue, down in the bag, was looking up and shaking a fist at the dying lipstick. He started asking himself “is it my fate to love one that’s unaware of my existence?â€, “should I suffer watching her with all these guys in silence?â€, “could a human being fall in love with a tissue?â€. He hung his head down and thought for a bit. A second later, he slowly shuffled his crumbled feet towards the corner of the bag. He had decided to let her go and vowed never to look up at the entrance of the makeup bag again. While he was silently crying and murmuring the words “oh, it’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at allâ€, he felt himself slowly floating in the air! He dismissed the feeling and attributed it to his confused condition. The dizzy feeling increased. He opened his soggy eyes and looked around him; there was no sign of the mirror, mascara or eye shadow! He looked down and saw them all waving to him! His soggy heart started beating very fast. He looked up and saw her pretty face looking down at him. She had smudged lipstick on her lips and a slight frown on her face. As the soggy tissue was swimming through the still waters of her face, he thought to himself “ Ah, this is the life; one can die content after experiencing such an exhilarating intimacy with such a pretty faceâ€. He spoke too soon, for almost as soon as he uttered those words, he found himself flying in the air! The makeup bag was miles away; the only thing visible below was the rubbish bin. In it, he saw the remains of the poor lipstick! The fear engulfed the soggy tissue, but he composed himself, said a little prayer and then shouted “ oh, it’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all†....

I can’t help but be impressed with the beauty of that photograph. Death, life, weakness, strength, survival, despair and opportunism all rolled into one. A very moving picture that needs no commentary or background story.

^^ How did this article clear things up for you?

How many tall, good looking, light skinned doctors/lawyers/accountants/ engineers can a girl find hiding in Somalia? I’m all for equality and similar treatment but in this case at least; I prefer to remain strictly sexist. Men will always do better than women in that area, our nets our wider you see. We go back to find younger, fitter and more obedient women. Their qualifications and education don’t really matter, all that matters is their looks and maybe their family connections and history. Could a lady contemplating a similar journey be as blasé about the whole thing as we are? Methinks not. Women, know your place. Heh.

Originally posted by wind.talker: quote: "Dubai is the place where Arabs come to sin - the Bangkok of the Middle East". Vice, directly and indirectly, may account for over 30% of Dubai's economy. LOL @ start bashing. But prostitution accounting for 30% of the economy? Isn't this GAAL exxagerating a bit? The article seems one-sided and the intentions of the author are questionable. I'm always astounded that its mostly Caucasians who want to write pieces about the cultures and economies of others. What happened to the natives of Dubai? In city that developed, I'm sure they could find plenty of writers who'll deliver a different angle on the story of Dubai. All stories have two sides. And I have a real hard time believing the 30% thing. I can’t speak of percentages and figures, saaxib. However, Dubai does have a very big and, possibly, lucrative vice trade. Dubai has always been a city built along British lines. This might make me sound real old, but I still remember the speeches Mohammed Bin Rashed used to give seventeen years ago. He used to talk about his dream of turning Dubai into an economic and cultural centre in Asia! He used to express his wish of turning Dubai into another Hong Kong, and in due time, take over the place of that famous Asian economic powerhouse. When one looks at how Dubai changed in the past ten years or so, one can’t but grudgingly accept that this sheik’s vision is almost taking shape. The problem, as the author of this piece rightly states, is that with an economic boom come expansions of many other (not all desirable) natures. The city is overcrowded, traffic is a real problem and crime, though unheard of in that part of the world and is still almost nonexistent, is bound to flourish in such a chaotic place. I was in Dubai ten days ago. I was very impressed with the architecture, the impressive and daring projects and the various business opportunities. That city has everything you would find in a western capital (though much condensed and within reach). It also has many of the characteristics one would expect from an Islamic city; there are mosques within a few yards of each other, in fact, there are as many mosques in that place as there are restaurants. The citizens of the Untied Arab Emirates are not that many. They’re dwarfed by the number of resident foreigners (that’s before one starts counting all the tourists, illegal residents and part time visitors). The rulers of Dubai have finally realised that in order to sustain this economic boom, they’ll need to relax the rules a little. Where in the past, non-citizens were not allowed to buy or sell property, now many could. Where in the past most rules were favouring nationals, and still do, they’ve been marginally relaxed. What’s holding Dubai and many other Arab cities (states) down is the Palestinian problem. Judging by the “positive†overtures many Arab states (including the UAE: Dubai) have been directing at Israel lately, it’s obvious that many Arab countries (particularly those in the Gulf) would love to have the option of nationalising some of their longer term “non-local†residents. However, to do that now (and it’s possible that they might) would mean the loss of one of the main demands of the Arab league regarding the issue of Palestine. Israel has always argued against the “right of return†of Palestinians. The Israelis, in their convoluted and inward-looking logic, have always wondered at the need for the return of these refugees. Their argument has always been that Palestinians are Arabs, therefore all those that lost their houses and lands as a result of Israeli occupation, should be absorbed by Arab countries and given citizenships there; there is only one Jewish state, there are over twenty Arab countries, “where is the fairness?†is their argument. With the death of Mr Arafat, the new phenomenon of terror, the change in American foreign policy and the increasing rumpus of “progressive†voices in Arab lands, many Arab governments find themselves cornered! Many others, like the state of Qatar, have decided to put their own interests above anything else and are putting all their eggs in the American basket! A city like Dubai finds itself also having to deal with all these regional and international changes and is speeding ahead with its own reforms and self-interested agenda. An agenda that sooner or later will require the increase of its native population! Will they attract fellow citizens from the rest of the emirates (the poorer cities), will they extend citizenships to the many Arabs, Asians and others that helped build that city? Time will tell. But, in the meantime, the population growth rate is lagging behind the economic and cultural change. Now back to the vice trade! Men who enjoy the company of ladies of the night will not be disappointed in Dubai. There are blondes, brunettes, blacks, whites and Arabs. There are cute looking Russians, dazzling south Asians and voluptuous Africans (including many Somalis, surprisingly enough). Apart from the hotels, private apartments and fake massage parlours; there is an actual and real Red Light District! Women of different nationalities, wearing provocative short skirts and tube tops parade those streets and haggle with curb crawlers! The sum total of all these prostitutes might not be 30%, but the fact that such a thing could openly take place in a Muslim and traditionally conservative Arab country is probably what makes it seem that much. Sharjah is only 15 minutes away from Dubai. This short distance makes it feel like part of the city. Sharjah is the practically the suburb to the city centre that is Dubai. It’s a world away from the noise, vice and madness of Dubai. Sharjah is a sleepy town ruled by a religious sheikh. A sheikh so strict and religious that he banned all shiisha coffee shops from that city (the youth go to Dubai and Ajman for that pastime)! Recently, Sharjah suffered a problem with a nighttime stalker! This person would hide in a particular area and wait for a lone woman to walk past. He would then stab her in the backside (allegedly) and run away. In a sleepy city such as Sharjah this was a nightmare. Rumours started circulating around the city that the “Butcher†only targets “semi-naked†women! Within a matter of days, many women that did not wear the hijab in the past were seen walking around with a full jilbab on! Yours truly has personally had a quite chat with a pretty Egyptian girl who was covered from head to toe and had full makeup on. The story of the “Butcher†was on all the national papers and was the topic of discussion in Sharjah for a whole month. Of course, when the police finally caught him (in a random traffic check), he turned out to be a respectable computer programmer from the Indian subcontinent. Still, the fact that such wild rumours found their way to every house, gives one a glimpse of the feeling of the people of that city when it comes to religion and decency! Judging by such reactions, one gets the sense that the people of Sharjah (and the UAE in general) would not be duly shocked should a terrorist bomb explode in Dubai!

by William G. Ridgeway Dubai is a boomtown. It has also become a major centre for prostitution. "Dubai is the place where Arabs come to sin - the Bangkok of the Middle East". Vice, directly and indirectly, may account for over 30% of Dubai's economy. Yet this licence exists in a part of the world where the austere Saudi cult of Wahhabism is influential. William G. Ridgeway reports on the strange, uncomfortable meeting of Wahhabism and vice. Dubai is the New York cum Las Vegas of Arabia, a dazzling conflagration of architectural absurdities and neon lights. It hums, buzzes, in much the same way a Manhattan street does – it is not just the noise, the constant roar of car horns, trucks and cries from the minarets, but the emotional throb of industry, business, fun. It is a young, happening place. The city's architect is the Crown Prince of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum, a man individually rich beyond the dreams or comprehension of your average Arab. Imagine checking your balance at an ATM. Now imagine that for each pound you have on your balance slip, Sheikh Mohammed has ten million – you get the idea. Dubai was never oil rich like the capital, Abu Dhabi, and had to rely on handouts to fund what started off as modest development. This economic dependency on Abu Dhabi was bad enough, but it undermined the autonomy of the spirited, cosmopolitan port - an unhappy arrangement, for Dubai anyway. The Dubai royal family thus hatched a radical plan to reduce economic and political dependency on their rich but staid cousins. The Big Idea was to make Dubai the regional hub for transport, communications, information, and above all, leisure. Dubai was to become New York cum Las Vegas. Some plan. After two decades of hair-raising development, however, some argue that they have pulled it off. Huge projects such as Media City and Internet City, along with tax breaks for multinationals and massive construction projects, have meant that Dubai is now a sizeable economy in its own right. On the leisure front, the Maktoums subsidized the building of hundreds of hotels, many of them at the very top end of five star luxury. Sheikh Mohammed founded Godolphin, effectively a horseracing multinational company, which bought up the best bloodstock in the world, and brought Dubai to the attention of Europeans and Americans. In 1996 he founded the Dubai World Cup, the richest race in the world, held annually at Nad al Sheba. The high point of this particular project from a PR and sporting perspective was when his favourite horse, the Godolphin-owned Dubai Millennium triumphed in 2000. The symbolism of this was not lost on observers around the world. They founded Emirates airlines, a high quality line which has Dubai as its hub, and repeatedly wins awards for the world's best airline. Everybody wants to fly Emirates, if they can, and if they do, they will probably spend time and money in Dubai, if only in the famous Dubai Duty Free. Recently, and controversially, Sheik Mohammed did something unthinkable in Arabia. He allowed foreigners to buy freehold property. This led to a huge property boom in the city. Realising that second-home buyers liked beaches, Mohammed thought big, and parted the sea itself with the construction of huge beach lined jetties and islands, notably The Palm, and more recently, The World. One can now buy a luxury four bedroom villa with access to one's own private beach in Iceland, Peru or Antarctica – all a mile off the coast of Dubai. Many thought that 9/11 would be the end of Dubai; however, the city benefited hugely from it. Understandably, in the wake of their crimes, the Saudis pulled much of their huge investments out of a hostile America, but then faced the problem of where to put their money in an increasingly suspicious world. Saudi money thus poured into Dubai. As fast as they could build, the Saudis were buying. Every local IPO was massively oversubscribed, and shot through the roof after release onto the market. Middle Eastern troubles certainly caused a temporary dip in tourism, but they inadvertently pressed the overdrive on an already speeding Lamborghini. Dubai is now at full speed – all the time. The streets are packed, businesses are booming. You have to book in advance for restaurants. Still the building continues, and still people are buying. Planes unload thousands of tourists a day, who squint in the sunshine and plan to visit the Burj al Arab, the world's tallest and most visionary hotel. They visit estate agents and wow at the prospect of living six months a year in this, the world's most dazzling, dynamic city. To top it all off, Sheikh Mohammed recently announced that he was building not merely outwards, but upwards, in the form of the world's highest building. The development of Dubai resembles the internet boom on amphetamines – but really it is like nothing else on earth. Anything goes here. I mean anything. Dubai is the place where Arabs come to sin – the Bangkok of the Middle East. Sometimes unfrocking, sometimes not, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Bahrainis, Egyptians, fly in daily like a plague of locusts, buzzing into the bars and discotheques of the city. To meet the huge demand for sex, in come planes from other directions, China, Russia, Kazakhstan, packed to the rafters with gum chewing women, anxious to profit from rich Arab punters. Emirates airlines recently opened a new route to Accra, Ghana. It now does good business ferrying African prostitutes back and forth to Dubai. The city thus profits from the transport of its own service workers. Here is a business model that works. An economist recently informed me that vice, directly and indirectly, accounts for over 30% of Dubai's money-go-round. It is big business, and there in every bar in town. Naïve tourists are often amazed to see Saudis, pint in hand, whirling around makeshift dancefloors with Chinese prostitutes. Here on the sacred soils of Arabia, are Muslims, drinking, drugging and womanizing. And here is the problem. Just next to Dubai, almost within hearing distance of the constant boom, boom, boom, lies Sharjah – a place that is relatively poor, pious and alcohol free. Here there is growing, ground level support for the austere Saudi cult of Wahhabism, which bans womanizing and urges the death penalty for women involved in it. (Women are routinely stoned, drowned or walled up in Saudi Arabia). Wahhabism bans alcohol and music. It does not like foreigners – infidel – on the sacred land of Arabia. For many Arabians - those not roistering in the Bangkok of the Middle East - Dubai is Sin City, and something has to be done about it. Here lies the risk for Sheikh Mohammed. Had Dubai been a modest success, like say, Muscat, then it would not have mattered. People could have cast a blind eye to the bars in hotels. If only it had been more modest as a vice centre, like Manama in Bahrain, which due to its proximity to Saudi Arabia, was the more discreet Sin City for Saudis to get serviced, before it was usurped by Dubai. But Dubai now shines too brightly. Its effects on local culture are too pervasive. Wherever, Wahhabis turn, Dubai is in their face, challenging them, tempting them with secularism, success and sex. There is thus a real risk that Dubai is indeed the new New York, and like New York – itself a symbol of brash materialism and licence - it too will be targeted by those in its shadow. The bubble shows little sign of bursting yet, though burst it might – literally – if Wahhabi extremists decide to do something evil and spectacular. Walking around the streets of Dubai at night, or gazing down on the city from the cocktail lounge in Emirates Towers, one can't help think, however, that Sheikh Mohammed's project has reached the point beyond which it would survive adversity, as New York has done. Just like New York, it is a melting pot, a point on the globe where people meet, work hard and play hard. It has a soul, not altogether a spotlessly clean one, but a soul nevertheless. All it needs now is a bespectacled, immigrant from Iraq telling self-deprecating jokes about sex, and survival is guaranteed. ---- ---- Start bashing. Source

Originally posted by LANDER: Wow, this is news to me. I seem to be behind these days. Those somalis were criminals lets not forget but the injustice is rather flagrant yet to be expected from Saudi's. As duke alluted to in an another thread, I guarantee if the perpetrators were westerners King Fahd would be on his royal knees *** kissing. I think living in Saudi Arabia alone is a gamble for the poor man, your odds are much better in the west. Yes it's sad but true, the Kufar treat us much better than the bedouins of the holy lands. The craddle of islamic civilization (and all "civilization" for that matter)is being destroyed thanks to these bedouins whom historically did little more than wander the desert and milk camels for ions, yet today have the audacity to consider themselves the "gate keepers" of islamic civilization. I just read that one (I was bored). Being a Nomad has become something to be ashamed of, people! I renounce my nomadic heritage! Renounce it I tell you! :mad:

Originally posted by LANDER: Duke you should go post all these articles on that thread where people are defending the Saudi justice system like somebody had insulted their grand-mother. They have insulted their grandmothers, saaxib. Do you read what’s written or do you just follow the crowd? This issue is irrelevant and should not have created as much venom and anger as it did. In any case, we really have to be careful how we insult the Saudis. Our livelihood depends on them and we don’t want to go on upsetting them too much lest they ban our sheep again.

I read your last piece and I couldn't find any holes! dang! It pains me to say that I agree with you on the assertion that ultimately the faithful have some reason to belief in what they profess to belief including Islam. Even though this was not the topic Mutakalim initially posted nevertheless you wanted to defend him and you've now veered the topic into different direction in order to state the obvious! Not at all, saaxib. This was the natural progression of the topic. There is so much to recap here and I really can’t go over all the old ground in detail. Nonetheless, I’ll remind you of the exchanges that occurred between Ms Word and Mutakalim in the earlier part of this discussion. She drew the battle lines and stated, quite strongly, that she relies on her faith while he blindly follows logic and reason. I simply followed that strand of the argument. It’s quite surprising that you considered my last post to be stating the obvious! The way I understood Mutakalim’s argument (I could be wrong of course but I doubt it), he was saying the same thing all along. You see, he (needlessly I thought) already stated that he’s a Muslim. He also asserted his belief that the Quran is true. Still, in spite of that, people carried on arguing against his stance on logic and reason! Some were explicit, while others like Xiinfaniin showed implicit disagreement. Now, if all parties in this discussion are Muslim, yet, one group still dismisses reason and logic without being very clear where their objections lie, how could one find out if their objections come with any stipulations? Stating the obvious here was a necessity, saaxib. Here is where faith comes in. Sane, rational, intelligent, and reasonable Joe can take a look at Hinduism and find the inner piece and spiritual fulfillment he so desires in its tenets. That doesn't mean Hinduism is not impeachable! All it means is this belief system has answers that's perfectly reasonable to this particular Joe just like another rational John would be contented in believing in Judaism as a true belief system. I happen to belief in Islam and someday (judgment day) we'll all find out which all these belief systems is the right one. This is dangerous territory, saaxib. You mean to say that on the Day of Judgment (if it ever should arrive) you will find out if Islam is/was the right religion? This gamble of yours begs the obvious question, what if it was not? In our holy book and many of the sayings of the prophet, we’re invited, encouraged and urged to observe the earth, sky and all that’s in between, to find the truth. We’re repeatedly instructed to contemplate, think and reason. The answers we search for are all there, we’re told. By submitting to Allah’s will, we do so with the conviction that Allah is true, his book is true and the judgment day is true. I believe, not with faith alone, but with reason too, that I have chosen the right faith. I’m convinced, through my own contemplations and the logical evidence in the Quran that this is the correct faith to follow. Every religious dilemma and quandary I face, I treat as an opportunity to further discover and strengthen my faith. I can’t go by blind faith alone and hope that, on The Day Of Judgment I’ll find that I followed the correct faith and was not seduced by Christianity or Judaism (who, if I followed your “reasoning†would have a 1 in 3 chance of being the correct religion for me). To be blunt, your lecture-like writing about reason and its value to strengthen our faith sounded, at least to me, as there is a class of nomad who are unable to reason and see, worse yet, its desirable value. That, I repeat, is a rare case! Then I attempted to point out where nomads could raise objections against philosophical reasoning (that, sorry to say, you miserably failed to acknowledge). Heh. This was exactly my point, saaxib. Back to your take on the issue of reasoning, based on my read on your last post, it seems to me that you’re trying to argue with the wrong person or create an argument that does not exist! Who’s against the reason, I ask? Have you not read my declared allegiance to reasoning as long it does not supersede nor contradict with the revealed truth? Now, this is where I draw the line on the sand. When the sound verses of the Qur’an clash (I believe some times this is the case) with the reasoning of the inept human intellect, the revealed truth takes precedence over the guesswork. Reason if you will, but not on the expense of your faith. Don’t reason with Allah’s decrees! Male gets twice of what his female sister gets from the wealth of their deceased parents. Why? Why would a khuf be cleaned on top while its bottom directly contacts the dirty? And the list of unceasing questions goes on! Where would you stop? You refuse reason if it contradicts revealed knowledge? Saaxib, the holy book is full of amazing stories and descriptions. Many of these cannot be comprehended by simple reading. Let us use your example, the case of inheritance! Are you saying we should just take it as read without attempting to find out the reasoning behind it? God works in mysterious ways indeed! Again, I’ll ask you how would you explain these “unexplainable†issues to a child or an interested non-Muslim? Saaxib, how many verses are there in the Quran that start with the words “ They ask you� How are Allah's decrees explained in the tafseer, saaxib? Granted that some elements of Islam are items of faith that any person using logic and reason alone should not attempt to speculate on. The fact that some people deviate from the true path in the course of asking questions and following their own enquiries should not and must not negate the need for reason when contemplating one’s faith. Given a choice between an insular, narrow and dogmatic Islam that does not encourage one to learn and contemplate, or a free, open and contemplative one, I’ll always choose the latter; despite the risk that, as a consequence, some might go astray.

2-0 to Liverpool, saaxib. This is the time where the season begins to turn in our favour. Most of the injured players are back (or on the way back), we're one point away from fourth place in the league (though I don't think we'll need it). Bring the Italians on, baby. We’ve got some unfinished business to take care off. Trust me though, Bolton was the harder game.

Originally posted by Amethyst: NGONGE , the only think you managed to achieve is lightly(when we all know ur a hefty man) dance around the subject and pretend to be a light fairy hovering over and guiding us. :rolleyes: OG sweety, come of it. You have changed ur tone more than once. Now its “corruption on earth†as said by the great NGONGE :rolleyes: . I will do whatever I can for those lacking justice and for those unspoken for. You on the other hand, stop being a complete ninny, going wherever the wind blows. This is a Somali site and insulting them is disrespectful, not to mention demeaning their life. p.s. If you guys fancy debating...go back to my 3rd last post n reply to my questions. Else, put a cork on nacnacda. You will do whatever you can for those lacking justice? Do they have to be Somali to qualify for your sympathy though? (No need to reply, silly question really). Look, I am and always have been indifferent to these instances of rage that we seem to have on this forum. Life is not fair, my dear. It never has been. A story such as this one is really nothing new. If I wailed and whinged for every person who was wronged I’d be a walking wreck by now! If you believe you can make a difference, the addresses of the Saudi ministers are on another thread. Pick them up and write them as many letters of insults as you want (or even beg for mercy for your fellow Somalis). Please though, don’t get carried away in this silly wave of indignation and invite people that don’t know to give fatwas on events they don’t have enough information on nor understand. As for OG being disrespectful to Somalis, well that is a really vulgar issue and I wouldn’t normally stoop so low as to comment. But, I like you, and should you decide to lower us into the gutter of civilised discussion, I’m sure your enjoyable company will help me withstand the stench. You see, the people here have been insulting Arabs, they felt angry for their fellow Somalis and let rip with unreasonable insults on Saudis and Arabs. Most know that she’s got Arab blood, yet showed no respect towards her (this is where you should have come in with your much lauded wish to do what you can for those facing injustices). The rest is history as they say. PS Corruption on earth is the term the Saudi’s use.

Call me irresponsible - call me unreliable Throw in undependable too Do my foolish alibis bore you Well I’m not too clever - I just adore you Call me unpredictable - tell me I’m impractical Rainbows I’m inclined to pursue Call me irresponsible - yes I’m unreliable But it’s undeniably true - I’m irresponsibly mad for you..