A survey by a university in Turkey has shown almost 40% support for the practice of "honour killing". The results come days after a court in Istanbul gave a life sentence for the murder of a girl by her brothers for giving birth to a child out of wedlock. Turkish law, which used to be lenient on "honour crimes", was heavily revised as part of the country's preparation for EU accession proceedings. Turkey has started talks with the EU but is not expected to join for years. The survey was conducted in the conservative south-eastern city of Diyarbakir. Disfigured It questioned 430 people, most of them men. When asked the appropriate punishment for a woman who has committed adultery, 37% replied she should be killed. Twenty-five percent said that she deserved divorce, and 21% that her nose or ears should be cut off. The survey group was small but the results are a reminder that "honour killing" - a practice where women are murdered for allegedly bringing shame on their family - still has significant support in parts of Turkey. There are no reliable statistics on how many women die this way, but Turkey has made major strides fighting such violence. Research panel Since the penal code was reformed last summer a man can no longer claim he was provoked as his defence. That used to lead to light sentences. But last Friday a court in Istanbul sent a man to prison for life for murdering his sister in her hospital bed. He shot her for giving birth to a child outside marriage. And there is evidence the authorities here are committed to taking the reforms further. A commission has just been established in parliament to research the whole issue for the first time. Its 12 members are expected to report back in December. Source Wonder what an anonyms vote here would throw up?

The trial of Saddam Hussein and his henchmen coupled with the arrest of that Somali guy in Sweden, reminded me of this thread. The wheels of the bus go round and round...

^^^ Can't understand why he would have a problem with aborting the najaasah anyway!

Within 20 minutes after you smoke that last cigarette, your body begins a series of changes that continue for years. 20 Minutes After Quitting Your heart rate drops. 12 hours After Quitting Carbon monoxide level in your blood drops to normal. 2 Weeks to 3 Months After Quitting Your heart attack risk begins to drop. Your lung function begins to improve. 1 to 9 Months After Quitting Your Coughing and shortness of breath decrease. 1 Year After Quitting Your added risk of coronary heart disease is half that of a smoker’s. 5 Years After Quitting Your stroke risk is reduced to that of a nonsmoker’s 5-15 years after quitting. 10 Years After Quitting Your lung cancer death rate is about half that of a smoker’s. Your risk of cancers of the mouth, throat, esophagus, bladder, kidney, and pancreas decreases. 15 Years After Quitting Your risk of coronary heart disease is back to that of a nonsmoker’s. Source I quit smoking a few months ago (using a combination of 24 and 16 hour patches). It was not that hard to quit. It all depends, I suppose, on how fed up you are with smoking itself. Within a couple of weeks, I really had no need for smoking anymore. But, I continued using the patches for another six weeks. That was months ago (May). Still, ever since I quit smoking, my entire body has fallen apart. I’ve grown fatter, slower and (believe it or not) unhealthier! My breathing has gotten worse (I’m told things need to get worse before they get better! Hmm). My voice is changing and is less deep (with Smoking, Barry White had nothing on me, now I’m more like Prince). Smoking is not much fun. Being a former smoker is even worse. Take your pick, saaxib.

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: You are given a huge space, sister, to express your views, and I don't intend to proceed with anyone here except the big reckless fishes, who are the main reason for this topic. However, I would like to clarify that sometimes its not wise to engage with the people who are subject to the guidelines of the big diluters, so I selected to target them in an effort to influence their downright recklessness. Now you can enjoy here with impunity, I guess. Aronwen, I think he just called you an 'airhead' PS Sol has a defined culture? And there I was thinking it was just a glorified chat room. Must work harder to influence this culture to be an exact reflection of me. :cool: Alle-ubaahane, I second Raganimo’s question. Spill the beans, saaxib. I got your back.

Originally posted by Nur: Shehersad sis Never hush up an idea, open disussions and respect of others point of view is conducive to finding a solution, I dont have a solution, just an idea that could prove to be either right or wrong, taken all assumptions to account, and I hold nothing holly other than the word of Allah...... ....... and if you insist, I am also for chopping of penises if it can save abortion as a lesser evil . Nur There, the appeasement is gone. No penises shall be chopped off. However, the issue still remains and might be worth discussing without wondering at the author’s motives. I personally disagree with him 100%. But, like many others here, I have a feeling that the exaggeration in the way the topic is presented is more to do with the provoking of debate than the holding of such rigid beliefs. If we were presented with a topic about abortion on it’s own, we all (probably) would have posted replies suggesting that the young need to return to the faith, or saying that the parents should take responsibility or even saying ‘ maxa naga galay’. The replies would be short, simple and to the point. Now this extreme solution whilst wrong (IMHO) forces us to think of alternatives of equal gravity and thoroughness. For, surely, nothing can be more through than chopping people’s bits off! Let us all put ourselves in the shoes of a girl facing this crazy prospect and, like I assume she would do, shout our heads off as we present alternatives and make promises to the Butcher approaching us with the knife (the depiction here is accidental). If we’re convincing enough, we might stave him off. I disagree with female circumcision because I believe it to be the lazy answer. In it’s essence; it is no different to those that tie mad people to railings (for their own good) or mothers that burn a naughty child to stop him/her from playing with fire! It really is not a cure but a punishment. It never considers, allows for or spares anytime for rehabilitation or, dare I say it, cure. Some might argue that the lesser evil would be to encourage the use of condoms and birth control methods. However, if we can have the resources and time to introduce and encourage such methods we also have time to spread the word and improve moral awareness. Six of one and half a dozen of the other really. Still, before we go into thinking up solutions for this problem, does anyone know how big it is? How widespread? Any sexually transmitted diseases uncovered while researching it? In addition, what do we do to boys who indulge in sexual practises and abandon their girlfriends once they fall pregnant? What about non-Somali (and non-Muslim) girls that consider aborting the child of her Muslim (Somali) boyfriend? Do we chop her off or let her off? I realise that my words above sound like something Dr Josef Mengele would utter, but since we’re only brainstorming here and are not really going to chop anything off, there is no harm in playing doctors and nurses (not in a smutty sense of course).

Originally posted by Femme: ^She neither had the pleasure of sticking a fist in someone's face on a daily basis, always knowing that there is a person to blame, someone to go with you places when you feel alone, someone to wrestle and 5 seconds later still be best of friends. Someone hand down the responsibilites when your tired. Were only 5 but sometimes I wish it was 10. The bigger the more fun. Really. Can't wait till my lil sis is older. I'm training her now to take care of the whole house. You're making all this up, right? Because, a while back, some guy that claims to be your brother swore to me that you are indeed an only child! Who should I believe? :cool:

^^^ Here is you, afroman

Stop flirting with me, young lady.

^^ Sick? I'll show you sick! Take it back or the baby gets it.

Alle-ubaahne walks into a thread and the Nomads, like rats in the sea, abandon ship. Watch them run..

^^^^^ One of those days, you'll get me sacked, saaxib (if he does not that is).

^^^ Couldn’t you make an exception? You can pretend that you were trying to familiarise yourself with the various commands. PS Hoyo gave me Sarreen for soxoor. I told her it plays havoc with my system but she would not listen

I reject all these statistics. They’ve got the wrong number. Wrong number I tell you. All Somalis already know that the correct number (magic number if you like) is 4.5! Carry on..

I clicked on this thread by mistake (again) :mad:

Aeronwen, You old? NEVER! I hear I was in charge of the food Here is your cake, darlin', mind you don't dribble all over the floor now: blow blow..

War watch out for your afro.... The king of evildoers

Surely before cutting off pieces of their bodies, we can use other easier alternatives. We should lock them up at home and never ever let them out until the day they get married. That way, they’ll stay out of harm’s way and stay chaste and virgin. It’s this education and exposure to the outside world that makes them deviate. It’s best that we also deprive them of that dreadful education (sex education at school, you say?). What does a (future) mother need with reading and writing anyway? Better still, we should operate a full lobotomy on all young girls. The bottom parts of the body might have nerve ends that heighten the pleasure and sensuality. However, it’s the top parts that harbour the thoughts, encourage the acts and sharpen the fantasies. A full lobotomy will turn these girls into blathering simpletons and as we all know, simpletons are free of sin. Yes, I’ve thought long and hard about this and believe a lobotomy is the best course of action for these deviant girls. As the woman who once tried to seduce a prophet once said, “the human self is inclined to evilâ€! Note that it was not the private parts that were inclined to evil (and it never is the private parts). Old and impotent eighty-year-old men do not fall over themselves rushing to buy Viagra because their private parts ‘urged’ them to do so! They do so because their minds still remember and want more. Still, let us assume that Female Mutilation is the lesser of the two evils. Let us assume that by doing this, the women will be less inclined to sin (in Zina terms) and that they’ll be able to fend off all the men. This will, as it always was, become the norm. Have a baby girl? Chop her bits off. It’s better than leaving her to sleep around and face the prospect of abortion. It’s all relative! If I can chop her bits off for her own good, why can’t I force her to marry a good man of my choice (for her own good)? Why can’t I beat her up mercilessly (for her own good)? Why can’t I look down on her (for her own good)? It’s all about preserving a good society and chopping off the undesirable elements and practises. We’re pro-lifers to the day we die and we shall do all we can to preserve life, even if it meant that we (honour) kill the devious girls that might get pregnant later and consider abortion! To tell the truth, girls are nothing but hassle. We’ll probably be better off if we just dug a hole and buried them in it the day they were born. PS I could not help it.

At least two more teams are still needed to get the cup competition going. The code for any interested Nomads is: 37308

French Supermarkets Sell Islamic Literature for Ramadan By Lisa Bryant Paris 11 October 2005 This Ramadan season, Muslims and non Muslims living in France can buy Islamic literature in an unusual place: hypermarkets, or large supermarkets. From Paris, Lisa Bryant reports that some 150 of these large-scale stores, which sell everything from deck chairs to string beans, are now selling so-called Ramadan boxes full of Muslim books. Go shopping at a Carrefour store in France this month and do not be surprised to find a Koran on sale alongside jams, coffees, and chairs. This major French chain store is among several across the country that are snapping up so-called Ramadan boxes, offering a collection of Islamic literature during Ramadan, the Muslim month of fasting. The boxes are the brainchild of Albouraq Editions, a Paris-based Muslim publishing house. Albouraq's 33-year-old head, Mansour Mansour, explains the thinking behind this new venture to tap mainstream distributors. Mr. Mansour says his publishing house believes that during Ramadan people are especially interested in reading spiritual books on Islam, along with practical ones. But he also thinks that selling Islamic books in mainstream supermarket will also attract non-Muslim buyers and better help integrate Frances five-million-strong Muslim community, the largest in Europe. Albouraq started testing its Islamic book initiative two years ago, tapping supermarkets in the Paris area. The response was good, Mr. Mansour said, so it began branching out to other regions in France. Participating supermarkets, about 150 of them this year, get a so-called Ramadan box, with about 24 different Islamic books. Besides two different versions of the Koran, the box also includes books on Islamic history, the prophet Mohammed and practical books on the Muslim faith. But the Ramadan marketing is only part of Albouraq's larger goal to make the Islamic religion more accessible, particularly to second-generation French Muslims. When Mr. Mansour's family-owned publishing house opened, in 1992, he said a new generation of French-Muslims wanted access to Islamic literature, but written in French. That is because many second-generation Muslims, often ethnic North African Arabs, did not know how to speak and write Arabic. French converts to Islam also wanted to read the Koran and other Islamic works in French. With time, Albouraq also started branching out from selling its editions only at Islamic book shops to mainstream French book stores like FNAC. Mr. Mansour says some non-Muslims are also snapping up Muslim books at the supermarkets this year. He thinks that is a good thing. He says after so much negative media attention on Islam, non-Muslims can read and learn about the many positive aspects of the Muslim religion. Source

Ramadan's beginning to look a lot like . . . By Hassan M. Fattah The New York Times WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2005 DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- The decorations are hanging, the cash registers are clanging, and the air of holiday cheer is everywhere. For a holy month, Ramadan is not what it used to be. Once an ascetic month of fasting, prayer and reflection on God, Ramadan has gradually taken on the commercial trappings of Christmas and Hanukkah, straight from the hanging lights that festoon windows to the Ramadan greeting cards and Ramadan sales and advertising campaigns that have become the backbone of commerce for the month. Marketers and businesses have caught on to the potential of 1.3 billion people at home fasting or breaking their daily fasts and getting back to normal life, a captive audience eager for entertainment and celebration, and more than willing to feast when the sun goes down. Here in Dubai, the region's uber-mall, commercialism has taken on a life of its own as almost everything has been dressed in the cloak of Ramadan, from consumer goods to cars. Malls are open until the early morning, and the nights rock away at dinner parties in desert tents. "Ramadan is changing from a religious month to a cultural or social event," said Muhammad el-Kuwaiz, a Saudi management consultant based in Dubai. "You're using faith to commercialize something else. It doesn't feel right." Sheik Ahmed Abdelaziz Haddad, grand mufti of Dubai's Islamic Affairs Department, puts it even more succinctly. "The problem isn't that people are trading and doing business," he said. "It's that people have taken this month to be a month of shopping." Ramadan, the ninth month of the Muslim lunar calendar, is considered the holiest month of the year, a time of fasting, family and reflection. It is during this month, Muslims believe, that the Prophet Muhammad received his first revelations of the Koran from the Archangel Gabriel. From then on, Muslims have been ordered to forgo food, water and other worldly pleasures during the day for the entire month as a pillar of their faith, a sacrifice to show they have not forgotten God and the less fortunate. The fast begins at dawn and lasts until sundown, with special prayers held in the evenings in an air of heightened spirituality and meditation. The Ramadan commercialism is more conspicuous in Dubai and in cities like Cairo than in, say, Saudi Arabia. But walk through many Arab cities this month, and the spirit may also move you to buy, buy and buy some more. In Egypt, hotels and restaurants advertise Ramadan feasts while an advertising sweepstakes calls on people to read all 30 days of advertising to win a prize. In Beirut, worshipers hang colored lights that say "Ramadan Kareem," or blessed Ramadan. A Mercedes ad in a Dubai newspaper plays on the theme of the crescent, a common Islamic symbol: "Welcome Ramadan with a visit to Gargash Enterprises and you'll soon be feeling over the moon." Companies and political candidates campaigning for parliamentary elections next month in Egypt give away traditional Ramadan lanterns emblazoned with their names and company logos. A Dubai shopping mall even features a Ramadan display with an uncanny resemblance to a Nativity scene, complete with moving camels, a village elder reading stories and a desert scene. A program in Dubai offers a different twist, a 1 million dirham raffle - about $275,000 - with half the total going to local and international charities. With those kinds of resources being brought to bear, it may be no wonder that many people are troubled by the creeping commercialism. "It is supposed to be about spirituality, but it drives me crazy that it is all about food and banquets," said Naglaa Abdel Fattah, 30, a secretary in Cairo. "I do not feel the spirit of Ramadan anymore. "I call my friend and all she talks about is the 10 dishes her family is preparing for iftar" - the breaking of the fast after sundown. "This is extravagant," Fattah said. Haddad, of Dubai's Islamic Affairs Department, says Muslims who take the month lightly are doing themselves an eternal disservice. "A Muslim who is focused on the worldly trade will miss the benefits he could get in the hereafter," he said. "What we see happening today in the commercialism of Ramadan is caused by Muslim ignorance of what is required of them to benefit their souls. God defined this month to save them and to protect their souls." But Haddad's message seems increasingly unheeded in Dubai's malls and shopping arcades. Many malls are closed from 2 to 6 p.m., or are empty because people actually slumber then. But they come to life after sundown, after many people feast, and they stay open until 2 a.m. "Why can't religion and fun go hand in hand?" asked an Iraqi man who spoke on condition that his name not be used because of the sensitivity of religious matters. "You want to be part of it. The whole thing is one big celebration, and people enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with it." But to Kuwaiz, the management consultant, and others, there is plenty wrong with it. "You're supposed to exercise abstinence, and the opposite happens," he complained. "Ramadan has become a month where people exercise gluttony." Nada el Sawy in Dubai and Abeer Allam in Cairo contributed reporting for this article. Source

^^^ Like poetry hand-written by a doctor that. Don't let it give you a headache. Here, watch this guy dance:

Those that missed out on this league can still join the cup one. We have four teams there and need two more to kick start that one. Code: 37308

Sincere, Like I said, the system does not reveal exact figures. But, because I am a VIP member, I get ‘special’ lists (you have to pay to be a VIP member - or have a friend pay on your behalf). Here is the story so far: Richest teams 1 Soldiers OneEightSeven 2 Bushwackers FC Gediid 3 waxaro Rokko_da_man 4 Marauders FC Sol_castro 5 Boredom Boys NGONGE 6 Didas Utd Didas06 7 Placentia Biofighter 8 Liverpool FC Northerner 9 Chelsea FC SoMa_InC 10 Indomitable Lions Sincere Strongest teams 1 Soldiers OneEightSeven 2 Boredom Boys NGONGE 3 Placentia Biofighter Liverpool FC Northerner Didas Utd Didas06 Marauders FC Sol_castro 7 Chelsea FC SoMa_InC waxaro Rokko_da_man 9 Indomitable Lions Sincere Bushwackers FC Gediid Strongest form 1 Didas Utd Didas06 2 waxaro Rokko_da_man 3 Indomitable Lions Sincere 4 Soldiers OneEightSeven 5 Bushwackers FC Gediid 6 Placentia Biofighter Marauders FC Sol_castro Liverpool FC Northerner 9 Chelsea FC SoMa_InC 10 Boredom Boys NGONGE Highest average age 1 Liverpool FC Northerner 27 Marauders FC Sol_castro 27 3 Didas Utd Didas06 26 Placentia Biofighter 26 Indomitable Lions Sincere 26 Chelsea FC SoMa_InC 26 Bushwackers FC Gediid 26 waxaro Rokko_da_man 26 Soldiers OneEightSeven 26 10 Boredom Boys NGONGE 25 Best match rating 1 Soldiers OneEightSeven 2 Marauders FC Sol_castro 3 Marauders FC Sol_castro 4 Chelsea FC SoMa_InC 5 Placentia Biofighter 6 Indomitable Lions Sincere 7 Boredom Boys NGONGE 8 Didas Utd Didas06 9 Bushwackers FC Gediid 10 Bushwackers FC Gediid Most bookings 1 Liverpool FC Northerner 2 Boredom Boys NGONGE 3 Didas Utd Didas06 4 waxaro Rokko_da_man 5 Marauders FC Sol_castro 6 Placentia Biofighter Bushwackers FC Gediid Chelsea FC SoMa_InC Soldiers OneEightSeven 10 Indomitable Lions Sincere Best coach 1 Soldiers OneEightSeven 2 Indomitable Lions Sincere 3 Marauders FC Sol_castro 4 Placentia Biofighter waxaro Rokko_da_man 6 Chelsea FC SoMa_InC Boredom Boys NGONGE 8 Bushwackers FC Gediid 9 Liverpool FC Northerner 10 Didas Utd Didas06 PS It’s early days and things are not likely to stay that way.