Chimera;953569 wrote: Where is the contradiction? Security and national healing without a proper international presence is just as unsustainable. The case of a grass-roots movement like the ICU is a good example. They controlled more land than either Madoobe or Hassan Sheikh, and restored stability in the South, yet they're history today. Security and national healing comes through economic and diplomatic progress. The former is the fruit of the latter. Xiin and Abtigiis provide me with insights to the situation, NGONGE provides a useless psycho-analysis. You confirm its a red-herring then, that's all I wanted to get out of you sxb. No worries. Err..that's not what A&T said and unless the word "absolutely" has taken on an altogether new meaning, it's not what you said either. No red herrings here, saaxib. No psycho-analysis either. I tell you exactly what I see. LISTS and daydreams are your forte. Real and proper debates are not. This is what I'm lampooning.

Xaaji X, do you think ethnic Somalilanders are born with the love of democracy, saaxib? In every part of the world we seem to find an ethnic Somalilander being elected to some body or other. Since you are a world authority on this subject, I thought I'd ask you.

^^ Oh now I am obsessed with you? Paranoid much, saaxib. This is what I mean, your focus on Chimera is muddling your ability to read, because otherwise you would know my "agreement" with Abtigiis is on the issue of compromise, but not your position that the international lobbying is unimportant. To me they are equal, that is the big difference and they aren't mutually exclusive positions to held on my part from a political standpoint Really? A&T says: Third, my point was that without security and national healing, any progress be it economic or diplomatic is prone to reversals and is not sustainable. You reply: Absolutely! Muddling my ability to read you say? All I see from your are daydreams, LISTS and the odd mention here and there of bygone famous leaders. War either jump in with both feet or stay out. p.s. Xiin is proud of his crystal ball, A&T boasts about being "bila saaxiib" and Maaddeey's "xamaasad" is there for all to see. Not one of of them or any of the people that post in here ever came back complaining about being "heckled". Naga daa dee and don't take things personal warya.

malistar2012;953504 wrote: Don't speak for the man , i said Judging by the interview , Abdirashid Duale states he is been living UK for 20 years and went back to his home country (Somalia) and started a company . never did he mention Somaliland? Businessman or not Mr Abdirashid Duale is icon in Somalia a wealthy men who provides service to the entire Somali peninsula His view is very important his company GDP is bigger the Hargesa admin budget Err..when did I speak for him, saaxib? At any rate, I am sure he's very happy that you're claiming him now (and yes, I'm speaking for him in this instance). Usually, Somalis of Somalia blame every ill from Somaliland on that poor company.

Chimera;953510 wrote: Lmao, go back to my first post sxb, I agreed with you from the start but had to defend that same political opinion from being heckled, and after that was forced to defend the SFG from blatant political bias, otherwise there is no disagreement here, and my original intention was to welcome you back and do a drive-by post, nothing more nothing less. thought. Horta lets sort out the heckling bit once and for all Chimera. This is a politics discussion and you should expect to be heckled whenever you choose to dip a toe into such discussions. You have a tedious habit of posting LISTS and hardly any argument, saaxib. When you get picked up on it (or any throw-away comments such as: this is the right government) you throw a hissy fit about being heckled and what not. As for agreement. I am truly lost with you. When I said to you that none of the international "progress" mattered unless the government sorts out internal disputes, YOU disagreed with me. When A&T said it, you agreed with him. Naga daa dee.

N.O.R.F;953508 wrote: I do enjoy picking up on Ngonge's af somali mistakes Err..you did nothing of the sort.

This definitely qualifies for a place in the Peruvian thread.

^^ For someone to medaite between the two, the talks need to fail. The talks have not failed yet dee (though we all expect them to sooner or later). When they do, there will be no shortage of mediators. But it's a tad rude for anyone to get involved just yet.

He's a British national. He's Somali. He's a Somalilander. He's a businessman!

I might have spelt it wrong but there is such a word as "Qan-D-FO" (it means pinch, ya badow).

^^ Somaliland's war finished in 1991. Somalia's war is still ongoing. The disputes are the same, the explanations are the same, the mistrust the same. Don't you ever get waylaid by the (necessary) "nation building" guff that we tell each other in Somaliland. At the bottom of it all, the idea is the same. We broke away because we believe it not to be in our interest to be part of Somalia. Those opposing Hassan Sheikh believe it not to be in their interest to support his government today.

Xaaji Xunjuf;953022 wrote: Will be very difficult i don't see how they can clarify their future relations with out Europeans mediating. They so far have discussed everything in the book about cooperation security aid and even to modernize the troops in both Somalia and Somaliland. But what kind of future relations will the 2 countries have , they have one thing to discuss is the airspace who controls what and revenues. But it ends there Somalia will not stop claiming Somaliland and Somaliland will never drop its statehood. So there needs to be mediation from the western powers the united states and the European union. You can only mediate in a dispute, Xaaji. There can't be a dispute if the two sides are talking. Wax fahan.

^^ I am bringing SL into it to show you how blind you're being, saaxib. The opposition to Hassan Sheikh is not about how he's spending his budget or what minister he's chosen. It is a dispute about a fundamental part of the roadmap; federalism. Now you have to bear in mind that I am neither in support or opposition here, I am simply showing you the lay of the land and the basis upon which you need to conduct your argument. The Imam & Co did sign on the dotted line and have agreed with the roadmap. In fact, the Imam believes himself to be the architect and main driver of this roadmap. However, now that Hassan is president, the Imam (and many of those that signed up for the roadmap) are claiming that this new president is not following what was agreed upon in Garowe 1 & 2. This, they hint, is a deal breaker and are going ahead with their own plans safe in the knowledge that if the International Community picks them up on it, they can always go back to the federal argument and their perception of what the deal entailed. Hassan himself is not sitting back and taking all the flack, he too is playing the same game and hoping that his position and contacts give him the upper hand here. It's a stalemate.

^^ You used to be pro Sheikh Sharif but opposed him by the end of his presidancy. Are people not allowed to change their minds in accordance with changing circumstances? Isn't that what happened to Somaliland in 1991?

^^ You can turn the whole thing upside down and say that the government is not prepared to consider their concerns despite the fact that they met this government on several occassions, etc, etc, etc.... I can see where you're coming from and what you suspect (mostly Imam related). But Hassan Sheikh must be awful at politics if he managed to reunite the Imam with Khaatumo and Madoobe (three groups that did not see eye to eye in the very recent past). I've already explained to you why I brought SL into the argument. I'm in no mood to rewrite the same point again and again. Wax fahan.

^^ Waliga dhinica xun uun baad argta. Hada amaan bilaash baan kuu keenay adigu "bad day" ka cabanaya. Faheema would not have admitted that you were very pleasent company if it were not for my qandhiifo. Now say thank you.

^^ I have no idea what Hassan is doing, Maaddeey. Sometimes, I think he himself doesn't know .

N.O.R.F;953400 wrote: Dee the point is wrong. Wax fahan Edit Jubbaland The one who wholeheartedly supported the process in which the country’s leaders were appointed is today busy throwing mud their way because they haven’t been receptive to their tol’s agenda/desires. Somaliland People want to split from Somalia after a brutal civil war. Apples and oranges dee It's only wrong because you refuse to see it for what it is warya. When an entire group of Somalis (PL, Jubbaland, Khaatumo and ONLF) all agree to go against the government of the time, you must know that something serious has taken place. After all, all these guys were never in agreement in the past so what happened to unite them all of the sudden in such a way? The Imam blames the way the FG views the federal arrangement and says that the Hassan Sheikh government are attempting to move the goal posts. Therefore, it is not in his interests to compromise today. Somaliland used to be part of Somalia. Somaliland (as Xaaji X never tires of telling us) happily went into the union with Somalia only to change their minds in later years. Some people are asking Somaliland to "compromise" today but it's not in Somaliland's interest to be part of Somalia (today). You are happy to believe in the argument that concerns you but see all kinds of mischief in the one that concerns Jubbaland. How do you like them apples, duqa?

The Zack;611247 wrote: War tolow NGONGE yaa uga **** xun haddii qabiil qabiil loo kala baxo LOL. NGONGE, for your information, the entire D is one clan and the entire H will be one clan, if your logic becomes true. I am not so sure where your beloved Habros will fit in the clanism you are advocating for. How you doing, Zack? Have you finally become my Murid?

^^ I was worried about you Faheema. You have not been seen in these parts ever since Juxa and her clique came to visit you. Did they eat you out of house and home?

Marxaba Marxaba Maaddeey (wa calaykom al salaam wa raxmatu allah wa barakaatoh). ii waran saaxib?

^^ The point stands. Wax fahan.

FIRST IN, again. Morning all.

^^ Apples, oranges or Xabxab..war they're all plants at the end of the day. Wax fahan.

N.O.R.F;953344 wrote: Very well put but is any of that relevant to the Jubbaland creators/supporters? Could they rise above the clan agenda and look at things from the President's perpective? Last year it 100% support for the new road ahead and today they're 100% against the government all because he doesn't see things their way. It's not in their interests to "rise above" anything, Norf. Just as it is not in YOUR interest to "rise above" Somali differences and agree for Somaliland to rejoin Somalia.