guleed_ali;990386 wrote: No one is denying it we're just differing in how we should go about fixing it. Some like Dr. K suggested we change the script to Arabic that way kids in dugsi learn to read the Quran and their native language concurrently. It's a strategic project and one that I agree with wholeheartedly. He seems to believe Somalis *are* literate, just that they're literate in Arabic while illiterate in Somali, which is absurd.

Safani;990382 wrote: No I did not I will do that now Brother ...... Here's the American School of Mogadishu group. 245 members!

guleed_ali;990376 wrote: Safani with all do respect I don't think it's a good idea to look for them through the net. I am personally not comfortable telling you the whereabouts of people without knowing you personally. I would suggest you find a lass canod native in whatever community you reside and ask them to "work" the phones and help locate them. I remember a sister who's husband went "AWOL" went to an elder to see if he can do anything. She told him his particulars and the elder located him with one phone call. SOL is a last ditch effort I hope you find them but this site may not be the most efficient way of going about it. Respectfully disagree with you on this, guleed... the internet is a wonderful way of reconnecting with people, and you never know who may be here reading or posting on SOL and may have a lead. Good luck Safani!

DoctorKenney;990375 wrote: Again Safferz, I've been to Somalia. You've been to Somalia. And almost anyone who's been to Somalia can attest to the fact that almost all of the little Somali children in Duksi can read the Quran in it's original Arabic. That is a fact. They might not be able to understand Arabic, but they can definitely read the script. Every Somali I know, religious and non-religious, Arabic speakers and Non-Arabic speakers, have some familiarity with the Arabic script and most of them can read the Quran in it's original Arabic (although they don't understand the meanings). So yes, "virtually all of Somalia" can read Arabic. All of these Somali adults have some familiarity with the Arabic script, and my experiences with the Somalis in Somaliland, Puntland and South-Central confirmed this to me. Anecdotal evidence doesn't qualify as data and the people you know or may have met do not represent the statistical norm, but if you'd like to go there, my experience in the Somali region (particularly in rural areas) tells me otherwise. Orality is king, including in religious practice. The denial of our massive literacy issue - literacy being the ability to recognize, write, and read the written word, in any script - does nothing but hinder our progress and development.

DoctorKenney;990359 wrote: Safferz is partially right. The literacy rate is generally measured in one's ability to read in their native tongue . But that's the entire point of this thread! Most Somalis in Somalia are unable to read Somali, because it's written in the Latin script, but virtually all of Somalia can read the Arabic script. So for the sake of conveniency, the OP is proposing that we switch the Somali language to the Arabic script, and this will make our literacy rate at least 90% literally overnight. A strange thing happened in Turkey back in the 1920's. Kemal Ataturk changed the Turkish language from using the Arabic script, to the Latin script. So the Turks, who were accustomed to reading their language in the Arabic script, were now forced to learn the Latin alphabet. The literacy rate in Turkey went from 80% to 0 in a single day. So the 40% figure is irrelevant, because this is something we can all acknowledge. lol no, "virtually all of Somalia" can't read Arabic, that is absurd. How can you compare Somali to Turkish, who have a long history of literacy and text-based literatures dating back centuries? On the other hand as Somalis we belong to the world of orality, spoken word and oral literature, writing itself is something that only began in the Somali peninsula with Islam, and even then Arabic was limited to 'educated' elites and religious scholars, not the vast majority of Somalis. The challenge for the architects of Somali modernity - the post-WWII nationalist movement(s), the civilian government, Siyaad Barre and the linguists of the Somali Language Committee - was how to take an oral people and language and impose textuality on them through the development and implementation of a Somali orthography. If "virtually all of Somalia" could read Arabic, these debates would have never occurred and the choice of Arabic would have been obvious and apparent to anyone who participated. We are not talking about Turks who simply switched writing systems from one to another, we are talking about an attempt to completely change ("modernize") our traditional worldview and mode of communication, from orality (speech) to textuality (writing). To this day that transition has been unsuccessful, and most Somalis remain oral and "illiterate" to all writing systems, not just the Latin based Somali script.

Alpha Blondy;990353 wrote: can you produce a xigasho please? it's a little ridiculous to state random figures eh. 37.8% overall according to the UN, and the CIA, 25% according to WHO.

SomaliPhilosopher;990351 wrote: If the use of indigenous scripts was implemented by the government, they must use the 4.5 system. Five letters for the Osmanya script, 5 letters for the Boroma script, , 5 letters of Kaddare for our dear HAG, 2.5 latin letters for our bantu brothers ect lool SP We are talking about a time before Somalia became the hot mess of politicized clan difference that it is now, Osmaniya was the script adopted by a populist, pan-Somali nationalist organization, the Somali Youth League. From what I understand, it was the only indigenous script that stood a chance against Shire Jama Ahmed's Latin based orthography and those who campaigned for Arabic. I still don't know how the Latin based script won out though, but then again it was a dictatorship...

Alpha Blondy;990349 wrote: seriously? caajib. Under 40% of Somalis are literate last I checked, we have one of the lowest literacy rates in the world. Even lower for women.

I disagree with the premise of this thread -- most Somalis are illiterate, period. Children in dugsi or folks on this forum aren't representative of the literacy rates as a whole back home, and the ones who can read Arabic are generally the same ones who can read Somali. As Che points out, the key issue here is access and enrollment in primary education. But some interesting arguments here re: orthography and its foreignness, it's true that Somalis - and African Muslims more generally - adopted the Arabic script for their languages historically where they did not have indigenous writing systems, and those writings today are known as ajami literature to historians. There are good arguments for and against both, but I think today the Latin script enables Somalis to easily read and learn English, French and other international as well as regional languages that are of greater significance in the current global economy. At this point I see little utility in changing it, though sometimes looking back at the orthography debates of the 60s and 70s, I kinda wish the indigenous scripts like Osmaniya pushed by Somali nationalists had won out I've always been a little jealous of the Ge'ez alphabet used by Amharic, Tigrinya and other Ethiopian/Eritrean Semitic languages.

SomaliPhilosopher;990285 wrote: So the revolutionary has been killed off. way to go admin for stealing a play out of the CIA handbook I liked Ato Kaluun and his self-conscious absurdity too, one of the more entertaining trolls I've seen here. Take note Alpha. Bon lundi mes amis... despite the snow had a productive morning so got my work out of the way earlier, about to head home now so I can be busy doing nothing Will probably watch my favourite holiday movie tonight, Die Hard.

A winter storm just blew through the northeast, I don't want to go outside this morning

I don't like kids that much but this photo of David Beckham with his daughter made my ovaries twinge a little bit... I want one toooo (and Beckham too, please)

December 9 1872: P.B.S Pinchbank becomes the first African American governor (Louisiana) 1905: France passes the law separating church and state (loi du 9 décembre 1905 concernant la séparation des Églises et de l'État) 1960: The first episode of Coronation Street airs, the longest running TV soap opera 1961: Tanganyika (now Tanzania) achieves independence 1962: Julius Nyerere becomes the first president of the Republic of Tanganyika (now Tanzania) 1979: Smallpox declared eradicated by the World Health Organization (last indigenous case was a man from Merca) 1992: US Marines land on the coast of Mogadishu

OdaySomali;990167 wrote: Bump! X-mas is around the corner. And once again there will be the question of X-mas parties. This time I am attending a X-mas party. I suppose people change in their attitudes. It's always good to make an appearance, just long enough for the free food and saying hello, then make an early exit. I do this not because I have an issue with holiday functions, but because I hate people.

If, for a while, the ruse of desire is calculable for the uses of discipline soon the repetition of guilt, justification, pseudo-scientific theories, superstition, spurious authorities, and classifications can be seen as the desperate effort to “normalize” formally the disturbance of a discourse of splitting that violates the rational, enlightened claims of its enunciatory modality. Lucid writing from Homi Bhabha. I'm about to throw this book across the room :mad:

A curious quote from 2012, courtesy of the SOL ages thread just bumped up to the first page: Alpha Blondy;826946 wrote: this is correct. will be 26 on dec 17.

OdaySomali;990168 wrote: Bumo! Safferz. I say 26 ish Is it enough for me to say you're wrong?

Cadale;990135 wrote: Never gets old :D

Apophis;990149 wrote: She's "alpino" Somali; though I wonder if it's through choice or natural design. :eek: I think she was born in Wales, she could be mixed. SMH@ the comments here, I should bounce before it turns into the inevitable clusterf--- of misogyny and other bs about women in politics. *excuses self from thread*

SP, who the hell is this?

Great thread, OdaySomali. Just wanted to add EdX to this -- free courses from a consortium of schools, including MIT, Harvard, Berkeley, Caltech, and many others.

Apophis;990101 wrote: Maybe if you wore the hijab from a young age you wouldn't feel that way. Or that it's an alien thing. Except I did, and that's exactly why I feel the way I do about it. It comes from experience, not my views on "an alien thing." *logs off for real this time*

Anyway, this procrastinator is logging out until *after* I work out and get through my reading for the afternoon... enjoy the rest of your day boys

Except I don't hate the hijab and I don't have an inferiority complex lol, I just don't like having to dress differently and feeling hyperconscious about my body, that's all (the thoughts of "is this loose enough, opaque enough, long enough, etc" on one level, but also the fact that Somali men stare, make comments and are generally more forward than Western men). Most hijabis in the West wouldn't be able to dress how they normally do when in a place like Hargeisa anyway, where women just don't wear pants no matter how long the top you're wearing may be. I prefer to dress how I feel comfortable dressing, but I can't do that in some places of the world.

^ lol Apo, I brought up India as an example of an interesting place much closer for someone in Addis and explain why I'm not interested in West Africa. It's a huge trip too, when I was thinking more about someplace I could go for a weekend for a change while I'm in Ethiopia. Though I'm sure that part of the Middle East is very nice, I've heard great things about Tehran and Istanbul SomaliPhilosopher;990088 wrote: I was with this chick once in lido. she was wearing a baati and carrying a soccer ball trying to claim territory to start a game. it caused a bit of a scene but It aint too bad... I don't even like how covered up I have to be in kililka or Hargeisa, so I don't know if I could handle Xamar lol.