We all insecure.....on some level. Some of us are more insecure than others. When it comes to successful relationships of all sorts you have to be confident in Allah and then in yourself. Insecurities brings very bad qualities in to surface......do you call it quits , hit therapy or seek the answers within God's counsel. lets face it most plp do not do the latter.....and the insecurities inside stay dormant all your life and you dont get to deal with them. so how do you deal with your personal insecurities? [your dreams are only dreams : wake up and smell the bills]

i really like your comment....but also add the fact that although a muslim lady who chooses this modest lifestyle of covering her self up and all can be sweet and loving (if she tries to be for the sake of God) , she is timid and shy and that does not mean guys can take advantage of that quality. but well done for stating it...its good there are guys like who do appreciate women like that....and does not think about the superficial aspects of beauty.

Thats really cool......like i wish things over in London are as organized as this conference you mention. This is not to say that Somalis are not as active over here in London, undoubtedly we have many dedicated people.....and i dont like to compare, and sure we do have a social forums and all that. But i can't help wondering that based on what i have heard and read from what goes on in America, the situation with somalis is (seeminlgly) infinitely better interms of education and community networking. Maybe im wrong. Maybe im right. All i have to say is that if the latter is true then i would like to know why. Any suggestions?

i totally agree with Sophist there (for once - lol lol ) - defintely her natural character. Not all women are as what u described Scorpian Sista - actually when u think about it ur not really describing what a real woman is but perhaps WHAT THE PERFECT WOMAN IS or should be. For example there are alot of women out there that are not great wives or mothers or friends etc. to define what makes a woman beautiful is definetely her natural character - her true self , her imperfections , her weaknesses, her hopes and dreams and her personal losses aswell as gains. i think thats what makes a woman beautiful......that is that a woman is only beautiful when she is real to herself and does not try to be something that others tell her to be. not all women are good and kind.....but the beauty comes when a woman tries to be. peace ....always be true to yourself and to others cos beauty is a word invented, and not a quality that is innate.....

I TOTALLY AGREEE ...THANK U...Agree is not even the WORD....too many repetitons...hurts ma brain cells

Miskin...Higab as Yasmine usefully pointed is obligotary. I understand that there are some who may see it as a choice....i think thats because they live in a secular place and they dont have Islamic rules enforcing them to put the higab on. What interestin is that they see it as a choice because they have no fear or humility for God...but for those who may force them to wear it. Remember any act u do in life generally must be an act that works towards strenghtening your bond and closeness with God.....it just has to be that way otherwise your life would have been for nothing. Those who see Higab as an option are those who are not interested in nourishing their relationship with God. Hey we are not all perfect though....some of us pray and dont wear hijab, some of us wear hijab but prayer is difficult.....whatever the reason being a good muslim is not an easy thing to do .....its a life committment filled with tests and trials...this is the condition of what a muslim means and God has stated this in His Holy Book The Quran. Though it gets easier in the end the journey one goes through as a muslim is unique to every individual and is relativey difficult So be supportive towards those plp .....i think its because they dont know much about Islam that they think that way....beause usually the more you know about God the more you are aware of his presecnce and Judgment. So be supportive and help them. None of us are perfect.

Yasmine.....if i have this right (and plz do correct if i dont)....your suggesting that Somali men are better today than they were in the past in terms of their treatment towards their women......or u talking about generally cos that would be a different case alltogether im sure. I don't really accept that claim fully. you said that you will in the future try to not generalise....i think thats a wise move. The issue is so wide, without any sociological/demographic research on the matter its really hard to say. But you do make an interesting claim.....i wonder if Somali WOMEN were better 50 or 60 years ago than they are now? Sophist....just cos women these days are more educated doesn't necessarily make them less motherly/gentle and subservient to their husbands as they should always be. Amusing to hear it from you though! Great topic Yasmine!!!

Great topic!!! Evidently you have strong feelings about this! I agree with some of the things you said, i think that there are men who abuse their God-given rights. However on the other hand, women abuse them too. Not all men abuse this right though. You will get situations where the man is married to two wives, and in the end, its turns out ok, and sometimes it can be pretty cool to have an older brother to protect you, whether he wasnt given birth my ya mom. I am in this sitaution and i consider ma self lucky, my farther is a great man whose kindness and love is unlimited and extends to us all ( we are 14 alltogether). I consider maself lucky to have so many brothers and sisters around me to advise me. Ok....so its not all peachy sometimes, resentment and jelousy does creep in...but doesn't always... in which ever relationship/marriage u are in. I have 3 other uncles back at Somalia too and they all have three wives.....i have so many cousins....these men are good plp and i feel lucky. Be careful sue....not all men are as what u described and not all non polygamous marriages end in paradise, there are some polygamous marriages which are lasting...and i am proud to say i am apart of it. Though recent decades may have confirmed your thaughts, its doesnt mean what you say is the general formulae. Great topic again.....keep it coming....i must say i do admire your sense of conviction on this!

id have ta agree wit the truth shall ste u free.....its weird but not that weird, at the end of the day its the consequences that really matter and affect us. peace

i would NEVER marry a non somali. Even if my life depended on it!

U make it sound soo simple think tank! u SURE THATS ALL it takes lol

Admittedley i dont know much about somalian politics, but from my modest knowledge of the status quo, it seems to me that gabiil and politics should not go together in the persuit of stabiltiy and political reform and reconciliation in somalia. Perhaps i am stating the obvious, if i am, my opologies, i know many of you are well read, more then me for sure. having both ie gabiil and politics, presents itself as a dangerous mix. If the political infrastructure of Somalia is to be established , it should be formulated under the ethics of Islam and constituted outside the boundaries of Gabiil relation, it is only then we can see our economy developing, because money and business will be directed not at a specific gabbiil area, but where the market is most welcoming Even in economics, its not valid to have a gabiil system, if economics goals are aimed at affecting certain gabiiil interests, it will blatantly not be favourable in the longterm . What is economically viable and profitable has to be intended for the greater population and the general market , irrespective of their gabiil affiliations. Politics and economics are forever intertwined, and, it is soceity that has the potential to change both of them, my theory: once the somalian society averts from the gabiil mentality (no at all , but to the extent it becomes racist and unislamic), it is then that politics and economics will be determined by general fairness and consultation. im probably talking crap. However, my farther, with his critiscms, thinks for once i may be on to something. he is secretly suprised that i have managed to form a thaught which for once does not include me or bags, shoes and what shade of lipstick i should experiment with next time i go to a Somali wedding. lol - Jaamal-11 will know what im talking about. lol what do u think oh ye nomads and aliens? what is the formula that somalia is desperately missing in achieving peace?

Ya thats mine too, right there, but i also like Michael Mooore, Gandhi, the list is endless

This world is full of perils and struggles. There is more pain and, war and hardship than there is peace and joy. Our Prophet Mohamed (may be peace be upoun him) is our ultimate hero of all time. Besides our great Prophet (may peace b upoun him) and his example, i would like to know.... who is your hero and why? How have they influenced you? It could b a political figure, scientists , anything. It doesnt have ta be from this time either, I am always looking for inspiration from others so who inspires you, oh ye nomads and aliens?

ooh i wonder what i am, i was born in december....

IS SHE LIKE SERIOUS ?

IS SHE LIKE SERIOUS ?

IS SHE LIKE SERIOUS ?

I think its unfair to coin the gals as ' being more demanding'. I kinda resent that comment. Dawacaw b careful of making such sweeping generalisations about us gals. Not all of us who have been living in the west are like that. For some of us, like ma self the more we live in the west , the more proud and thankful we are of being muslim and somali. I think u should have categorized ur comments on the gals a little better. the connnection between the deterioation of our culture with women is becoming a popluar sterotyope, but its quite unrealistic. and its getting really boring. Does anybody have a new theory that does not involve women? Why? its too simplistic and naive of an explanation which does not present itself as a meaningful observation of the many complexities of our new generation. Why gender the problems and solutions? too few talk about the positive aspects of whats going on today, and too many blame it on the women. Alas, its the curse of the Origional Sin.lol lol Somebody come up with a new theory, cos this one is getting too old.

There are many ways in which our culture seem to contadict the deen. For example wearing dirric and gontino and such things in weddings in which men participate. Also shaking hands or kissing each other cheeks between cousins and uncles and all that. its a real difficult one cos for a somali man/woman to claim themselves religious, would have to divert from the social norms of our culture Note im particulary talking about the southern culture, it seems to me that in the north, things are kept on the reserve u know, particulary in Argavo for example where wearing nigab has become a popular trend, albiet a religious wear. However that is not to say that our culture is completely unislamic - we do have alot of things that go hand in hand with islam, just perhaps those things are less compared to the things that we have go in direct contradiction with islam Its strange and quite hard for plp who wanna follow the deen and at the sametime adhere to who they are. I think following islam should go first before culture expectations, nevertheless this is hard to do for some plp.

I study International Economics and Development Studies , im finishing off ma second year. I really enjoy what im reading , though micreconomics can sometimes do my head in.

Diana cream - for some of you who dont know quite what is, its basically a whitening cream, women ( and some men i heard - though i still dont believe that!) of dark colour simply apply it on their face , and other parts of their skin line, to become lighter. And it actually works. U girls know what im talking about! You see it in weddings and parties. Men might not notice at first. I think its fair to say that i lot of somali women use it these today, the cream can be purchased in any somali shop that sells clothing or food o whatever. never used to be found in these shops (in my area where i live anyways) say about 5 - 8 yrs ago, NO ITS EVERYWHERE. OK - like i thaught this cream was only used in the west. BIG NO NO. when i went to Somalia last summer, so many were using it and yes u can purchse this cream now at your nearest shop @ argavo forget about metroplitan hergise. i WAS SO SHOCKED. My opinion, this cream is the most hideous female cosmetic ever invented. and a curse cos it damages your healing cells apparently. What i wanna know is why our Somali women using this disgusting this ? Insecurity or self-obsession? Who invented the damn thing? Where does it come from? Its not good full stop. Even if you wanna be more beautiful , still no excuse right? i always believed that beauty was an inner quality and surpasses anything that is physical. OK this ethic of mine may sound corny but its something that i have alawyas believed in, no matter how unrealsitic plp think i am. Am i being too harsh in judging those who use this cream? Do they actually have a solid reason to look whiter than white? Maybe im wrong about this whole thing? the more i think about this cream, the more baffled i am?

LOL - SECTIONER , ya thats intereting - im kinda on the same train of thaught with u there - lool . Intersting well thnk u all for ur opinions and advice. it has helped on some level. lol - kinda suprised so many of you all responded. cool

Ya some of ur opinions were really helpfull like urs rudy - many thnx. My shyness definitely does not stem out of unassertiveness or lack of confidence - couldn't u like tell by my seemingly contreversial post on 'In the defence of...(ya i think we know where that one goes lol lol) But my shyness only comes out, like so unexpectedly and intensely , when i meet i guy that i kinda respect and like. I also get shy when i meet elders - i dont talk that much and all but thats like for anybody. What im talking about is this flush of 'OH MY GOD HE'S LOOKING AT AND SO I NEED TO FLEE RIGHT NOW BEFORE HE COMES OVER' , kinda thing and i do seriously flee. Its just so ridiculous. ya ok its a good thing, but im not feeling that kinda consellation right now cos as i said i do miss chances. Its that kinda of a problem - ie in terms of meeting new plp. Thats all. Your views have encouraged me a little - although a little of 'ya its a great thing to be shy' and more of 'here this is what ya do about it ' maybe would have helped. Like what A REVELATION - i never knew guys liked shy girls - thats a new piece of information right there. peace - lol

Thats so intersting what under dog wrote. Was haniff kidding when he said that - maybe / maybe not. U know the fact of the matter is is that man and women are both subject to their own personal insecurities and self-worth. And also they subject their own issues on each other too. I think its unfair to say women are persecuted more than men. Persecution comes in different forms. its a toughy but we are all human beings at the end of the day and pornography, self-idolisation and feminism are not part of our culture and religion. Thats the beauty of being muslim - it teaches us to be human beings, to ourlseves and each other - as man and woman. So in light of this, why are plp even contemplating about this issue of women being taken as flesh by men or men posed as being a bunch of morons ? Are not these social/gender issues borne out of an indecent, immoral and unjust culture - ie THE Western society. Does it really have anything to with us as Somalis? I mean these issues have nothing to do with us right? Surely our Somali men dont see us as flesh, they see us for who are and where we came from. And somali girls dont see our men as morons - right girls? Do we not have an inherent belief and respect for our men. Im sure we, i know i do, or am i completely outta wavelength here? Loool