^^ hahaha... Cicero for a Roman philosopher you've got a good sense of humor!

It's interesting that you quote Surat Al Kafiroon. A system based on that "you have your religion, and I have my religion" with everyone living in peace and harmony under one secular system of law is what I advocate.

The example of the minarets ban illustrate how a group can be demonized by the majority even in a secular country. But the difference here is that the secular courts will over-rule this referendum because it is an infringement on the rights of a minority. I agree that it is hypocrisy that the French government involves itself in such a matter. The problem I have with the French government is that they grab their secularist value very rightly, which is also not right, I have a similar disagreement with people who grab religion too tightly. I for one am for a system like in the US that uploads one's individual liberties and rights. Anyway, we're not talking about the veil (that's Ibti's department ) but I'm curious... you don't believe that it be made obligatory, but many other Muslims do, what if the majority of those Muslims, as per their view, decide that it be made mandatory on all women in the country? But wait, you said "if a certain Muslim country dictates that you must wear a head scarf as a non-believer to enjoy that country and they dont promote individual choice, then thats what must be done."... that's what I don't want in a future Somalia, no one should take away one's right to choose.

hahaha... noted!

hahaha... I think it's you in the LG post and C&H in the secular govt post that'll get me over this Alienhood You expect a cake too C&H?

^ hahahahaha... well if that's the case then aad baa uu mahadsantahay

@Ibti.. we had our disagreements but we found common ground, no?

"They already the fire squad headed by Ailamos" afaaa Ibti, I think we've already signed the peace pact

Originally posted by Naden: If people want to experience racism in all its implicit and explicit glory, visit Canada. Those are some pretty hateful bast@rds :rolleyes: Really? Worse than in the US? I thought Canada was more open than here?

"Aliamos here feels too important and not bothered enough to justify his/her belief or choices in life to anyone and particularly not to Sayid"

LOL@none of you will go to Hell on account of using your brains

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: Aww... did I touch a raw nerve? Well..hmm.. your beleifs are relevant because we're discussing a country thats 99% Muslim and when and if given the chance will likely choose the Sharia Law. No raw nerves were touched, don't worry And you're prediction will remain to be seen and time will tell. Secondly, your beliefs matter because if you are a non-believer, ofcourse you would push for secular goverment! Perhaps a non-Muslim is more likely to push for a secular government because that would be the only way their rights would be guaranteed, but I think that a Muslim, depending on how conservative s/he is, can also choose a secular system? No? Well, here is my contribution in a sum: I vote for a goverment that adheres to the Sharia laws because I believe Islam is a way of life, complete with laws and governance. I believe the Qur'an we read today is the word of ALLAH. And certainly Allah's laws are far superior to man-made laws. No need to modify or improve something that has already reached perfection: This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; Surah 5: Verse 3 Thank you I suppose the only way to resolve this would be through consensus Let me as you though, since we're on the matter of percentages and consensuses. What do you think of the recent Swiss ban on minarets? And the French ban on the hijab? What if the US, or rather the Minnesota, where you are, would vote for a ban on all forms of the Muslim veil since it's a majority Christian state/country and that's not what they believe in? What do you think? Would that be fair? or would it be an infringement on your rights? I'm just curious.

^ my bad

You object to this ya Sayid? My.. but it's a work of art hahaha...

hahahahaha...

^ hahahaha....

^ hahahaha...

Originally posted by Sayid*Somal: No that is a sentence, not word. and whilst i am at it - 'implicity' is not a word - the correct word you were looking for is 'implicitness'. Che - history is full of racism. Anybody know - who the first racist was? I have a feeling that you really don't like me Sayid Since when are you an expert on the English language? Frankly, I am getting tired of your BS... see here for the definition of the implicity http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/implicity . Just because your web browser doesn't recognize it, doesn't mean that it's not in the lexicon. And about "Word", if you go to the Urban Dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=word you will see that "Word" has no single meaning, but is used to convey a casual sense of affirmation, acknowledgement, agreement, or to indicate that something has impressed you favorably. I'm glad you've learnt a couple of things about the English language and its use. Please do some research before you post bogus stuff.

^ Good point. If a person consciously hates a certain group, then no amount of history will fix it. However, I think there are certain life lessons that people, even the *really* bad ones, could learn from and make them change their ways.

Originally posted by Jibreel: For the racists mentioned in the post, a history lesson is imperative. Word.

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: See, there needs to be a clear base when two people are debating a certain matter. I'm getting confused here because you dont believe the Qur'an is literally from Allah(which then makes you a non-believer) and you dont want to go the atheist route. You're mixing things because you want to argue on the basis of this religion(citing verses, certain interpretations of Imams, etc)which you dont beleive in. Before you take on this issue, please jump the fence and admit to yourself that you're either confused about your religion or reluctant to admit to yourself that you dont beleive anymore. If you dont believe anymore, we can take a look at what irks you about this religion. If you believe in Allah(you cant pick and choose what you agree or dont agree with. You dont have the liberty to do so once you develop faith), then we can discuss how and why secularism is beneficial to US than the Sharia Law. Whether I believe in Allah/Jesus/Yahweh/Shiva/Buddha or just a God is besides the point. This is not about me and what I believe, this is about the future of our country. If you must know, I am a Somali first and foremost. A Somali who wants a stable country that has a just government based on respecting the rights of everyone without preferential treatment for any one group. That is the base from which we should begin. If you are confused then please clear your head and come back when you have something to contribute that will make this conversation move forward.

Originally posted by grasshopper: The scene in Portugal with the lady putting away her necklace reminded me of this I got so angry when I first watched it. I hear ya grasshopper, that was messed up what they did :mad: They convinced themselves that they're the victims and went on the offensive.

LOL@ assumptions is mother to whom? Bush and Blair??

^ yeah I think I might have over-analyzed the situation... I thought about it later but at the time I was too frustrated. I suppose it is like CL had said that we need to "get over it" save for the fact it's not "everyone" that does it. I suppose living a normal life and moving on is the way forward.

That is an important question indeed RB. I think we as Somalis first and foremost need to put matters of emotions like the qabiil and Islam on the side and think rationally. Because, in my opinion, responses such as "we are headed where allah swt has destined us" and "we all headed to akhiro", albeit might be true, do not contribute anything to the push forward because of the lack of any critical and insightful thought. If this particular thread is to come up with a useful and reasonable outcome then we have to leave matters that drive people's emotions in other sections of SOL and get together as Somalis first and foremost... everything else comes second. Mentioning these emotive matters will cause us to go around in circles as I have noticed on this website.