I forgot to add one more important link Archdemos, check out http://www.somaliheritage.org/ Somali heritage is a website that aims to raise world-wide awareness about Somali cultural heritage and pre-history. It presents the extensive research, preservation and capacity building work carried out by Dr Sada Mire, an archaeologist and heritage worker.

If you're into geology then a good start would be to read http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA464006 You can also glance over the 84 page http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/267/1181/267.abstract the paper has several figures that will help you select where to visit. For birding, an excellent guide is: http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=0300074565 you can also check out the newly published http://www.amazon.com/Birds-Horn-Africa-Ethiopia-Princeton/dp/0691143455/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top General fauna guides to Somalia are hard to come by and a lot of the animals might have been driven to extinction in the country because of the war... however, you might find this http://earthtrends.wri.org/pdf_library/country_profiles/bio_cou_706.pdf useful, and you might want to contact Osman Amir the author of this http://www.wmenews.com/newsletters/File/Volume-1/Issue-4/vol1_wme_issue_4_en-3.pdf if he can guide you in the right direction regarding finding fauna in Somalia... Make sure you post your photos here when you're done

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tusbax: Ninkan gaaban ma sidii Somaliland baa loo hayaa? LOL...

^ not that gruesome, but the 50-cent/gangsta rap type sh*t...

Just saw the trailer, looks interesting but I hope it doesn't go down a gang-violence-glorification path, otherwise it would just be disappointing for me.

You guys are too hard on Sherb here. Granted the media went crazy when one of their own survived a hostage ordeal, but it's interesting someone mentioned Daniel Pipes as it has become a shaky world in conflict-journalism after his unfortunate death and anyone coming out of the clutches of the phsycoignoramus Islamists is deemed (rightly or wrongly) as a hero. I glanced over the story of this lady a while back and I didn't think much of it, heck, I didn't finish reading her story because it went down the same old glorification route... Then I read this http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/30/business/media/30somalia.html ... notice that she went there without any specific assignment and not only did she lack training, she was on a mission to carve a name for herself while bypassing the necessary steps to be an effective journalist... this might have been necessary considering the competitiveness of the journalism profession but Somalia is a place that's dangerous even for seasoned journalists, so I guess that was the lure for her. I think it is excessive to call her a hero, it would be more apt to refer to her what she really is "a survivor"... there are several journalists in Somalia any given time, some have died and as far as I recall they were not labeled as heroes even though they sacrificed the ultimate price for their professions. Others, such as Robert Draper here: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/09/somalia/draper-text have not be given that prestigious label simply because he's a professional who has planned his excursion rather carefully and avoided getting kidnapped. Or what if photojournalist Farah Abdi http://www.worldpressphoto.org/index.php?option=com_photogallery&task=view&id=1723&Itemid=257&bandwi dth=high ... got kidnapped and then released after a couple of years? Do you think he would receive the same amout of media hoopla as Amanda? I think not. Partly because he is not of the same skin color as Amanda and partly because he has no country that would voice concern over his kidnapping like Canada or Australia did for their own people. In the end I think journalists (real ones, not wannabes) are doing a fantastic job in uncovering stories and matters or social/world importance that would otherwise go unreported or would be at the ends of rumors and unconfirmed BS. Some report from dangerous situations and we appreciate that very much, but I think this glorification has to stop as they are just doing their jobs and some like CNN reporters get paid a decent amount for their efforts. They are no different than MSF doctors who are passionate about their work.

^ I'm back! oh boy, good point there Nor... hmmm.. which one would I rather have? :confused: ... well, I don't know in depth details about either country apart from what I read, and since what I read points in the direction that both are pluralistic countries so I would live in either one... Having said that bear in mind that both countries have their flaws: concerning India, the 2002 Gujarat violence between the Hindus and the Muslims and the rise of Hindu fundamentalism... as for Malaysia, the Anwar Ibrahim sodomy trials, the Lina Joy affair and the recent "Allah" violence come to mind...

^ exactly

Dozens of Egyptian women and human rights activists have staged a protest in Cairo against a recent decision that bars women from holding judicial positions. Thursday's protest came after the Council of State's association voted on Monday by an overwhelming majority against the appointment of women as judges in the council, an influential court which advises Egypt's government. Up to 80 women showed up at the protest with most of the activists holding up posters that read in Arabic: "This is a black day for Egypt's history." "Three-hundred and eighty judges took part in the general assembly and voted, with 334 rejecting the appointment of females to judicial posts and 42 agreeing, with four abstentions," the Egyptian MENA news agency reported on Tuesday. May el-Sallab, an Egyptian women right's activist who attended the protest, told Al Jazeera: "This move shows the flawed nature of Egypt's legal system because the vote is unconstitutional as it contradicts article 40 of the Egyptian constitution. "The kinds of people representing Egypt's legal system obviously do not want women to be part of the decision-making process," she said. El-Sallab said: "How can we talk about justice when those implementing the law choose to discriminate against women?" According to article 40 of Egypt's constitution: "All citizens are equal before the law. They have equal public rights and duties without discrimination between them due to race, ethnic origin, language, religion or creed." Rippling effects The country's supreme judicial council, which has jurisdiction over criminal and civil courts, selected 31 women in 2007, who were later appointed by presidential decree. But the decision angered conservatives who said women were not suited for the role. Up until 2007, Egypt had only one woman serving as a judge who was appointed by Hosni Mubarak, the president, to the constitutional court. Azza Kamal, a leading Egyptian women's rights activist who also attended the protest, told Al Jazeera: "This is a very discriminatory act and it will carry a rippling effect onto Egypt's culture because it tells society that women do not know how to handle roles associated with so much responsibility. "In that sense, we, as women's rights activists, are losing the battle, we are losing the war to change minds and the present stereotypes that prevent us from gaining the rights that we are now being told to stay away from," she said. Hossam Bahgat, an expert on human rights law and director of the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights, also criticised the judges' decision. "I'm disappointed to see that there is a deep-seated bias prevalent among judges against women," he said. Bahgat said the decision could technically be overruled by the Special Council, a supervisory body that oversees the Council of State. Source: Al Jazeera and agencies http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/02/201021810571229586.html

No Norf, I haven't been to Malaysia but I've heard a lot about it. I think you asked that question with regard to its interesting dual legal system. I think Malaysia is way ahead in the Muslim world in terms of accommodating to its diverse populace. Sharia is a state matter and it's not imposed on the Malaysian federation as a whole. Regarding the freedom to of association and religion: In 5 states out of Malaysia's 13, apostasy is a criminal offence and is punishable with a fine or a jail sentence... which is in contrast with other Muslim countries that advocate the death penalty but the situation could still prove as a bit of a predicament if one is born into a Muslim home and later in adulthood realizes that Islam is not the right religion for him/her. One state has developed its own unique system of dealing with potential apostates which includes filing an application with the Sharia court to declare apostasy, following which the applicant undergoes a almost one year's worth of counseling with a sheikh or mufti, if the applicant still wishes to convert, then a judge may grant permission to officially convert and change the religious status of applicant's ID card and legal papers. In some states though there is the issue of the Islamic police who patrol the streets and businesses and arrest Muslims who are caught drinking and/or engaging in un-Islamic unions. Although, one might not think this is fair, but I believe the residents of those states have opted for such laws.

Mavericksky you're on point saxib, the topic of the thread has gone AWOL genius pauper my apologies if any offence was made, let's keep this discussion in focus. I won't have much time this week to add anything but will do so by Friday. Please keep it going

Originally posted by Geel_jire: quote: "Alysia, another divorced Somali woman driven into prostitution, said she had paid smugglers to take her on the perilous voyage across the Gulf of Aden to Yemen. "I have to take care of my son. I have to buy him milk," she said." contrary to what you may infer from my posts .. I have sympathy for these people in this rough spot but they share a large portion of the blame. The truth of matter is, If you have the money to pay smugglers .. in my books you are not starving.Perhaps she ran out of money as all her cash, which could very well have been borrowed from multiple people, ran out... Perhaps she thought she would immediately find a job and resources to feed her children in Yemen, a mirage which most migrants see, but the reality of that "escape" is very different and she might as well have been better off at home. Now she cannot go back home as she has no money and she cannot feed her children as she has no resources. She begs and begs but she doesn't get enough. There is only one door she sees and that is to sell her body. There are so many other circumstances saxib. Please try to think outside the box instead of jumping to conclusions, or follow Unsigned's example and leave the judging to a higher authority.

^ It's not about being politically correct, but rather an attempt to understand the circumstances and be sympathetic to the plight of those women. You make it sound like a simple black and white issue when it's a complicated matter. Starvation is not the only matter that drove them to such a profession but rather the need to take care of their children, if it was just about them I'm sure they would rather perish but it is for their children that they're selling their bodies. "She has spent 10 months in Yemen living on U.N. handouts and turned to prostitution eight weeks ago to send money to the relatives at home who are looking after her children." "Alysia, another divorced Somali woman driven into prostitution, said she had paid smugglers to take her on the perilous voyage across the Gulf of Aden to Yemen. "I have to take care of my son. I have to buy him milk," she said." ""My life is a mess. Sometimes men don't pay me. I would do anything else but what?" asked Najma, 34, another Somali sex worker.' That last one said that people sometimes don't even pay her, so tell me, what is in it for her? I don't think she does it just because she enjoys the sex and the physical abuse. Yes, there are people in very similar circumstances in Somalia as well and for all we know this could be taking place there as well. The opportunities in Yemen are highlighted: While alcohol is hard to come by in the capital Sanaa, a few restaurants and beach clubs serve drinks in Aden, luring some weekend tourists from austere Gulf states such as Saudi Arabia. In Aden's Tawahi seaside district, prostitutes work in cheap hotels or clubs which have adjacent "motels." Which means that the tourists from richer countries are their main clientèle. Again, none of us know the real circumstances of these women, so better not judge them. Never underestimate desperation.

genius pauper, I don't know what you have against me or this thread. If you think this thread lacks focus then give ways to put it into focus, suggest something constructively instead of inflaming the matter and calling it the usual "an attack on the underlying blocks of Islam". It is true, you haven't said much to move the conversation forward, so please, I invite you to do so. I know for a fact you haven't read everything that was posted before (otherwise you won't be making baseless statements) and like I said earlier, I don't have the time or the energy to re-post everything I, Raamsade and the others have said, please just scroll up and read those posts. I don't have hatred for Islam, no one on this thread has, please come out of your shell and join us in discussion. ps. if anyone appreciates the difference in opinions, ailamos you stand executed by time. I will not respond to your personal attacks and will merely ignore them if you continue with this tone. There are more intelligent people on this thread that I prefer to be interacting with Ciao ciao!

^ oh my! not again... ... the conversation seems to be going well and no one has resorted with personal attacks (yet) your (Ngonge) lengthy response was quite refreshing... but without dwelling in too much, as I have to take off in a bit, I just want to counter people's statements that Islam is a "Way of Life" as if it's unique but fact is that all religions are "Ways of Life"... take any one of the world's religions as an example. I think it would be a difficult task to separate religion from politics and governance, as much as I, and others, object to that combination. If you look at the world, no one is willing to put down their crosses, kufis, and david stars, sit down and compromise. I just think that religion can bring about the worst in people because of their attachment to what's sacred to them. As we have seen in these forums time and again, people get very angry if one merely criticizes their religion and religious witch hunts are still the preferred method of weeding out heretics who do not share the same conviction (unless you're Ibti, I noticed she prefers to reason). That mixed with power can be a lethal combination. Therefore, I, as an individual, prefer to be governed by a system that does not come with all that extra baggage. Now people are quick to say that Islam is perfect, all religions (and even communism) have the potential to be perfect if everyone adheres to their core principles of "love thy neighbor" but sadly, as we can see around us, there is no such thing as a perfect system. You can say all you want that it's perfect but what we see around us is evidence. Yes, a majority of Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus just want to live peaceful lives and are not fanatics, that much is true, which is why a country like India has opted to have no state religion. India is 80.5% Hindu and contains more Muslims than Pakistan, it also has many Christians and people of other beliefs. The country's leadership took a positive step in making sure that no one is discriminated against. From Wikipedia: The word secular was inserted into the Preamble by the 42nd Amendment Act of 1976. It implies equality of all religions and religious tolerance. India does not have any official state religion. Every person has the right to preach, practice and propagate any religion of their own choice. The government does not favour or discriminate any religion. It treats all religions with equal respect. All citizens, irrespective of their religious beliefs are equal in the eyes of law. No religious instruction is imparted in government or government - aided schools. Because of the religious diversity, religious tolerance is established in both law and custom. A country that is overwhelmingly Hindu as India made such an important step forward and even went as far as to elect several Muslim Presidents (including the father of the Indian nuclear programme), despite tensions between Muslims and Hindus and between Hindus and Christians, then it serves as an example to be followed. In my opinion, the closest system to perfection is system that guarantees individuals the right to be themselves, worship who or what they worship, think what they want, say what they want and carry on their lives however they wish as long as it does not disturb or intrude on the rights of other citizens. All this under a system that is not an authoritarian one that controls everything they do. Those are my two cents, I have to run now, off for the weekend

An unidentified man has become a hero in Argentina after he pushed a stalled van off railroad tracks, narrowly escaping being hit by the train. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8509776.stm

By Yolande Knell BBC News, Cairo Worshippers arriving for mass at St Mary's Church in central Cairo say they were shocked but not surprised by a deadly attack against Coptic Christians in southern Egypt earlier this month. "Copts have been suffering for a long time," comments Magda accompanying her teenage son to the service. "There have been a lot of tensions between Christians and Muslims, particularly in Upper Egypt, and a lot of attacks." "What happened in Naga Hamady has opened the situation up to the outside world." Six Copts were killed in a drive-by shooting in the busy town, 60 km (37 miles) from Luxor, after they left a late-night mass on 6 January, the eve of the Coptic Orthodox Christmas. A Muslim policeman was also killed. There are frequent small-scale clashes between Coptic Christians, who account for about 10% of Egyptians, and the Muslim majority but the shooting was the worst-known case of sectarian violence in a decade. The United States Ambassador to Egypt is reported to have discussed the attack with the Coptic Pope Shenouda III when she visited him on Tuesday. Responsibility Two days later, a full two weeks after the incident, President Hosni Mubarak made his first remarks directly condemning what happened. "The criminal act in Naga Hamady has made the hearts of Egyptians bleed, whether Copts or Muslims," he said in a speech carried on state-owned Nile News. He called on "the rational preachers, thinkers and media men to shoulder their great responsibility in hampering sedition, ignorance and blind fanaticism and to deter hateful sectarian motives that threaten our social unity". Yet several civil rights groups say it is the government and local officials who failed in their responsibility to anticipate the attack and ensure its aftermath was handled effectively. The shooting in Naga Hamady has been linked to the alleged rape of a Muslim girl by a Coptic man in the nearby village of Farshut last November. Claims of the assault led to several days of unrest. A report by the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights (EIPR), whose researchers went to the area on a fact-finding mission, states that local church authorities warned of possible violence and decided to end Christmas masses before midnight as a result. It questions why police did not bolster security during the Coptic holiday or take further action to prevent angry clashes that followed the shooting when Muslims and Christians damaged each other's property. EIPR found that dozens of local residents - from both faiths - were arrested at random. It alleges that some were tortured. In February, three Muslim men are due to stand trial before an emergency security court charged with premeditated murder in Naga Hamady. Wider inquiry However EIPR director, Hossam Bahgat, believes there should be a wider inquiry into events. "Since these killings on 6th January we have called on the public prosecutor to expand his investigation into the circumstances that led to them, the possible negligence by security agencies and people involved in inciting the violence," he says. "We also believe this particular incident cannot be seen in isolation from the general picture in Egypt." Analysts say there has been a rise in sectarian violence since the growth of Islamic movements in the 1970s. It has led to an increasing number of Christians becoming radicalised, disgruntled at perceived discrimination. Widespread poverty exacerbates the situation. Often, disputes over land and inter-faith relationships can spill over, splitting communities along religious lines. There are warnings that the authorities must do more to deal with Christian grievances, including complaints about restrictions on building churches and a school curriculum focused on Islam. "Nowadays everything is religious: the books in schools, the media. It's all adding to the divisions felt by the lower classes especially," reflects Amira, who also attends St Mary's Church. "If the government did more to address the root causes of frustration it could make things better but I don't think that will happen. Instead when this hype dies down, things will probably go back to normal, until the next catastrophe." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8478397.stm

^ I agree, at this point and after almost 20 years of bloodshed, any form of peace would do...

Originally posted by genius pauper.: as if the thread was on what in islam are you incomfortable with, your flooding the floor with uneducative insights of the genesis of your hatred.!!!! OK here we go, I wondered how long it would take for a comment like that to surface. genius pauper, if you feel attacked then please hit the complain button or don't even stop by this thread, no one has a gun to your head. As far as I can tell, no one is insulting Islam here as your sensitivities have insinuated. Please read all the posts from the start and then bring about a reasonable response instead of wasting your time and everyone else's with nonconstructive BS. PS. I suggest you bring something constructive to the table rather than b*tch and moan.

The Sierra Leonian has characteristics of the African dictator: "Firstly, if you cannot properly reason as a citizen, even if you are 18 years and over, you will not be eligible to vote." "Secondly, if you know that what you say is not meaningful to my government, then you should be quiet and keep your opinion to yourself."

I want to send a quick reminder LayZie G. and Mavericksky that we're all Somalis here no matter what we believe. Please don't get into personal attacks. There are a lot of you(s) and finger-pointing in your posts. If you would like to bash each others beliefs and call each other "faithheads" and "godless" then I suggest you open a new thread entitled "Between LayZie G. and Mavericksky". I think the discussion is going well, I urge you to please not ruin it.

Originally posted by Castro: quote:Originally posted by 2+2=5: Che & Castro, now isn't the time for bad jokes. If you can't say "manshaAllah" or anything celebratory, don't say anything. ManshaAllah! When is the time for bad jokes? In a thread about God? (Ouch, I know, that was a low blow) And what the #$%*& is "ManshaAllah"? hehehe... the Somali version of Masha'allah

Desperation and the will to survive can force people do things that are against everything they believe in. We were not there, we don't know the circumstances that they are in. Every case is different and we cannot suppose from research a single overarching conclusion. I think they did what they had to do. I think Peacenow did the right thing in bringing this to our attention, even if we already knew about it... it's a simple wakeup call to those of us who are engrossed in their day-to-day activities and (partially) forgot about the other side of war and conflict in our part of the world. For those of you like Maaddeey who are ignorant enough to know nothing except downgrade these women (calling it saqajjaannimo) more than they already are, I give you a verse from the Quran: [24:33] Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until God provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from God's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste.If anyone forces them, then God, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful. So I tell all of you, no one is in a moral capacity to judge them as no one here is in their shoes. So please either say something constructive about this situation or shut the hell up.

Originally posted by Hunguri: loool Nimankasi waa funny. Mid reer Xamar ah, oo bari noo yimi ayaa waxaa la odhan jiray (Makki). Qolyo Tabliiq ah ayuu la socday. Markuu Airport-ka kasoo dagay, ayay waxay Pakistan-tii yidhaahdeen waxaa Africa ka yimi ( Duqsi Madaw ). which, means in Urdu ( Kala Makki ). Odaygii cabbaar ayaa Madaarka lagu haystoo la buufinayay looool LOOOOL!!! I saw this comedy show not too long ago, the Canadian-Indian Russell Peters was on and he mentioned the name of two Sikh Indians he knew... one was Hardik and the other one was Sukdeep and he commented: - "hey, hey, you Sukdeep?" - "yes, well, if I have to, I don't enjoy it too much though" What if Hardik and Sukdeep became best friends?