^^ I think you're right NG, it seems that I fell into the same pot as the rest of them...

Originally posted by Khayr: A muslim that has a traditional islamic worldview and does not agree with your liberal, secular, anti-religious worldviews is self righteous? Do you speak for everyone here? What does it make you and your lot then, when you come on SOL and dictate to us I never dictated anything to you, it's just a small advice. Either you take it or leave it.

Originally posted by Khayr: Just a quick a question for Sherbeen and the others, If your neighbor/coworker was a: - known serial killer would you attend there funeral? - a known pedophile would you attend there funeral? - a known rapist, would you attend there funeral? I don't think Sayid ever mentioned that his neighbor was a criminal, put a sock on your nonesense yaa Khayr What are you getting at?

Originally posted by Maaddeey: Sorry ailamos, my mistake! it was Napoleon! waa isku kiin qalday, lakin I still think you have posts that you negate Alle subaaxanah, sax? I never negated the existence of Allah yaa maaddeey

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: Pstt... Did you watch the first Pirate Episode of Law&Order, where the African America dude playing West African dude playing East African dude(If you watch TROPICAL THUNDER you'll get this joke!) was like(when his convert white girlfriend asked him why were they drinking when Alcohol was forbidden)"My father was once told, once the alcohol touches your lips Allah will turn it into water."! [/QB] hahaha... I did watch Tropic Thunder, that quote was classic "I know who I am, I'm a dude playing a dude, disguised as another dude"... LOL@"My father was once told, once the alcohol touches your lips Allah will turn it into water"... hollywood bullsh*t at it's best... :rolleyes: Originally posted by Blessed.*: In sum it's a system that goes against the principles of the sharia. I grew up in Britain for instance and it's not an easy place for Muslims. It's a system that is not concerned with God or religiosity which makes it a little harder for you to practice your faith. More so when parts of your faith are deemed to go against it's secular (and even christian) believes. I'm not saying Britain should be a sharia state, just explaining why I prefer to live in a Muslim country where you hear the adhan at the mall and you have a prayer hall in every corner, for example. That is true, when I moved to the West, one of the first things I started to miss were the echos of the athaan. Originally posted by Blessed.*: Can I ask what a secular system has over a sharia one.. for Muslims that is? I think from a Muslim point of view a secular system offers the same basic provisions as a Shariah system, e.g. one can build a mosque, pray five times, buy halal, pay zakat, wear whatever one wants, etc etc. However, the secularity of a country is not an entirely objective thing, it is indeed influenced by the local traditions. For example, a country that is overwhelmingly Christian such as Switzerland and is based on secular governance has the ability to curb the freedom of worship of many of its citizens who constitute the Muslim minority by controlling the heights of minarets and disallowing the athaan. While on the other hand the same is true for a secular Muslim nation such as Turkey where the Christians there are persecuted because of their faith. The only difference is that in Switzerland, even though the majority of the (Christian) country voted in a referendum to ban minarets, their secular government resists its implementation because the ban "infringes guaranteed international human rights and contradicts the core values of the Swiss Federal Constitution", furthermore the Swiss parliament "recommended (by 132 to 51 votes and 11 abstentions) in spring of 2009 that the Swiss people reject the minaret ban initiative". I do think secular Western countries are being hypocritical with their proclaimed "freedom of religion" by allowing Church bells and disallowing the athaan, but like I said earlier secularism is a subjective thing. My concern is the rights of minorities, if a certain system of Sharia can guarantee in practice the protection of those rights, then I certainly have no problem with it, such as the Malaysian model. Originally posted by Blessed.*: Secondly, I don't think the sharia limits human developmemt in any way. The 'Islamic Golden age' saw Muslims contribute so much to the development of ideas and inventions in many fields, these were often inspired by the Quran and sunnah and was during the time of a khilafa. I don't know where we went wrong, that's something I need to investigate.. I don't know what went wrong either, the Islam's golden age was indeed the one of the greatest periods the world has ever witnessed. It's a question with a very complicated answer since there were parallel dynasties in different places... plus loss of Al-Andalus, the Crusades, Mongol invasions, and internal conflict all could have contributed...

Originally posted by Maaddeey: ailamos, aren't you the one saying u r strong believer that alcohol is not haram then come back in the same thread and claim spirits cannot be served in Jannah as its Haram, whats that contradiction? just to oppose Islam rulings? whoa?? :eek: when did I ever say that? :confused: come on yaa maaddeey, don't make stuff up... btw, congrats on the 1000th post

Originally posted by Karl_Polanyi: You are a strange charachter. You follow the AyanHersi Madhab, but you are sly, cunning and you want pose as a sympathiser of Muslims. Don't be a coward. Be true to thyself and be like Raamsade, Johny B and the like. The Ayats you posted don't relate to atheists like yourself, waryo. Who are you kidding? ^^ **sigh** :rolleyes: I see you haven't learnt from the above... I don't think there is any hope for you yaa karlito

I came across the following which I thought would benefit the self-righteous (ya'll know who you are ) in this forum so they can reflect and take something home, instead of loudly proclaiming how much they know about their faith and point fingers at others whom they know nothing about. Have a good read: In many ayaat of the Qur’an, Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala calls the Qur’an a “huda”, a guidance, for the believers. We may think this guidance refers to guidance in religion, but the Qur’an is a guidance for all aspects of our life, however it’s up to us to extract these lessons and implement them. Many Muslims read the Qur’an with the intention of reward, yet we forget that the main purpose of the Qur’an is to guide us, to be our huda. From the richness of the Arabic language, we learn that huda or hidaayah has three meanings: To show one the path To help them ‘walk’ on that path To guide them until they reach their destination. So this guidance, this Qur’an, contains innumerable lessons for the believers.One that I would like to share is from an incident that happened with the Companions, that we can extract many benefits from for our communities today. Allah ta’ala says, O you who have believed, when you went forth in the cause of Allah, investigate; and do not say to one who gives you [a greeting of] peace, “you are not a believer,” aspiring for the goods of worldly life; for with Allah are many acquisitions. You [yourselves] were like that before, then Allah conferred His favor upon you, so investigate. Indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted. (Suratul Nisaa: 94) Allah is addressing the believers who accepted Islam at the time of the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam but did not declare their faith openly so they mixed with the people. Since one could not tell who was a Muslim or not, the way to recognize a believer was by the greetings of Salaam. There are many Asbaab (reasons for revelation) for this ayah related by the Companions and scholars of tafseer. One of the main reasons that this verse was revealed after Rasul Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam sent a delegation led by Al-Miqdad ibn Al-Aswad radi Allahu anhu. Imam Ibn Katheer narrates in his famous work of tafseer: “Ibn `Abbas said, “The Messenger of Allah sent a military expedition under the authority of Al-Miqdad bin Al-Aswad and when they reached the designated area, they found the people had dispersed. However, a man with a lot of wealth did not leave and said, `I bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah.’ Yet, Al-Miqdad killed him, and a man said to him, `You killed a man after he proclaimed: “There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah. By Allah I will mention what you did to the Prophet .’ When they went back to the Messenger of Allah, they said, `O Messenger of Allah! Al-Miqdad killed a man who testified that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah.’ He said, Summon Al-Miqdad before me. O Miqdad! Did you kill a man who proclaimed, “There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah” What would you do when you face, “There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah tomorrow” Allah then revealed [this verse]. The Messenger of Allah said to Al-Miqdad, He was a believing man who hid his faith among disbelieving people, and he announced his faith to you, but you killed him, although you used to hide your faith before, in Makkah.” (Narrated in Bukhari, Al-Bazzaar) Allah ta’ala says in the ayah, do not seek the ” ‘arada عَرَضَ” of this dunya, which literally means: everything that doesn’t have stability and anything that is transient. Allah is reminding us that anything from this dunya will leave us and nothing of it will be everlasting. But when it comes to the hereafter, Allah says with Him are ” many magaanim مَغَانِمُ” which literally means: to obtain good without any difficulty. Notice that this word is plural, while ‘arada is singular.The reason that the sahaabi killed the man was for his riches but Allah is telling the believers that He will provide them with riches. Allah reminds the believers, that before when they were in Makkah, they were also hiding their faith and they should, فَتَبَيَّنُواْ , (notice this word is a command) investigate before they take action. Now, fast forward to our times…what do we learn from this ayah? Remember your Makkan period. Many of us, back in our “jaahiliyyah” days, had a time in our life where we might not have prayed, or wore hijaab/niqaab or had a beard. Yet, how come we act snooty to a brother or sister who is struggling with their faith, and we look down upon them, as if we were born saints? How come we treat others who may not wear niqaab, or who may not wear a thobe with disdain, like we are better than them? Many of us had a point in our lives where we were embarrassed to say that we were Muslim, and we hid our faith, just as the Companions did in Makkah. Allah azza wa jal is reminding us in this verse, YOU were like that before and that He is Khabeer (All-Aware) of what we are thinking and that He is Khabeer (All-Aware) of what we are doing. If you treat your fellow Muslim differently because of their appearance, Allah Knows. If you snicker behind their back, Allah Knows. We were like that before brothers and sisters, until Allah “manna, conferred His favor” upon us–the favor of guidance, of baseerah (insight), of learning, of love for the Qur’an, of taqwa–we were in that same situation. He is the One who favored us, we did not will guidance for ourselves, so do not claim purity. Remember that. We cannot base our actions on opinions or appearances. Remind yourself of the prostitute who entered Jannah because of the small deed of giving water to the thirsty dog, and the story of the pious monk Barseesah who ended his life in prostration to Shaytan. Looks can be deceiving, so know that only Allah is All-Aware of what is in the chests of mankind, and we do not have the right to say who is a good Muslim or a bad one. The Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, “I have not been ordered (by Allah) to search the hearts of the people or cut open their bellies.” (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim) In another incident when Usama ibn Zayd radi Allahu anhuma killed a man though he had confessed that there is no deity worthy of being worshiped but Allah, claiming that the man had said so out of fear of weapon, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him observed: “Did you tear his heart in order to find out whether it had professed that or not?” (Reported by Muslim) We should not act without confirming and investigating. Allah commands us to do “bayyan” (to verify, clarify, investigate) in this ayah–we must find out both sides of the story, and confirm it before we act. Think through the times where we held a negative opinion about someone based on a little of what we saw of them. Did we go further and confirm with them or were we quick in judging them? Taqwa is not in the length of your beard, or in the layers of cloth you wear. The prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said, “Taqwa is here,” and he pointed to his chest. (Reported by Muslim) Remember that the best in the sight of Allah is the one who fears Allah and is conscious of Him. Allah is The Judge, so know your role. Verily, your Lord knows better, who (among men) has gone astray from His Path, and He knows better those who are guided. (Surah Qalam:7) If we as an Ummah followed the simple command in this ayah, and surely Allah knows best, our situation may have been different. If we, ourselves, now implement this ayah into our lives, inshaAllah our community will be different. Be the change you want to be! The Prophet sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam said that ALL of the children of Adam make mistakes! Who are we to take them to account? Who are you to judge? SOURCE

Originally posted by Tuujiye: please naga qabo gaalkaan Ailamos hadaa wax qabaneysid.. he is the true SOL terrorist lool.... A little bit threatened aren't you old man

Originally posted by Tuujiye: Ailamos gaal yahoo hadii aad diinta sidaas u taqaanid, maxaa kuu diiday in aad iska raacdid oo ilaahey ka cabsatid? mise waxa kili kaa fogeynaayo waa xaaraanta aad faraha kula jirtid dhaafideeda? war qalbigii baa ku madoobaaday saaxiib ee ilaahey xarigiisa iska qabso ha duloowinee.... diinteeyda aniga ii daa iyo faragilintaa iga daa, shaqadeeyda weeye maxaa kaa galay any way? You're a bit of an annoying evangelist yaa Tuujiye... as you can see I know Islam pretty well, but you're upset because I don't share your convictions so wareerka naga daa iyo mind your own business...

The probe of the 9/11 attacks soon led Washington FBI agents back to San Diego, where they found that al-Awlaki had twice been busted for soliciting prostitutes in 1996 and 1997 but had avoided jail time. Al-Awlaki has previously described these charges as "bogus." But FBI agents hoped al-Awlaki might cooperate with the 9/11 probe if they could nab him on similar charges in Virginia. FBI sources say agents observed the imam allegedly taking Washington-area prostitutes into Virginia and contemplated using a federal statute usually reserved for nabbing pimps who transport prostitutes across state lines. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/040621/21plot.htm

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: The lowest of low lives are dadka u dhinto dadka kale mabda'ooda, meaning they recyle every rubish uttered by red-necks and Islamic phobics, thinking that makes them sound smarter.

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: LOL! The only two people who raised good points happened to be Blessed and Ibti. Girls Rule! Anyhoo, his wife who happens to be a "minister" went to an acting class where she practiced long French kissing scenes with a complete stranger, gave a SERMON about the good Lord's blessing to a bunch of DRUNKEN ladies who were in urgent need of a good SERMON, went shopping with her pregnant daughter who is living with her boyfriend all in one day. Sounds like a minister at a McChurch and as corrupt as Pat Robertson..

Originally posted by Tuujiye: looool is this waxa adiga lagugu gaaleeyey? "listen simpa, listen to the voices" ayaa lagugu dhahay yaah lool Ailamos Bellesed and Ibti are two muslim girls who know their faith well laakiin adiga diin dhan maba lihid saaxiib and not only in aadan leheen oo aad gaal tahay, but you are living with confused thoughts.. I talk straight and real with you and I was done with this logic talks with you but iinsha allah they will get thru you..laakiin yaa Ailamos, runta ha nicin... your not smart as you think you are saaxiib and anaga waxa aan kuu sheegeyno waa runta.... Your a gaal who wants a secular system for somalia because of your own interest!! thats all what this is about..thats waxa aad maanta dhan la murmeysid...we all know that! what else do you want to talk about? lool Wareer Badanaa!!! You're "straight and real" talk is quite evident awoowe as you continue to evade the issue and start with accusations and name-calling

a bit harsh me thinks... three to six months would've sufficed....

nice ending to the tourist yacht scene

Originally posted by Abu-Salman: A leadership constantly shored up with Western support, especially in its most oppressive aspects (denial of most basic rights, large-scale massacres and atrocities etc)... The hypocrisy and interference of the West is undeniable, but at the same time the muted acceptance and hypocrisy of the Muslims is undeniable either. I don't think one has to be a first-class scholar in order to see the current state of disintegration of the Muslim world. I'm not vehemently anti-Islamic, but I am for more self-criticism in the Muslim world instead of the blind clenching of religious ideals that may not exist. Anyway, thanks for the invitation ya Abu Salman and no offence taken, I think your intentions are good

Whether a homosexual, whether a Christian/Hindu/Jew, the deceased was a fellow human being and a good neighbor. I hope you'll do the right thing and attend the funeral, show your respects, but as a Muslim you're not supposed to take an active part in the funeral processions. The European Council for Fatwa and Research issued the following Fatwa: "Islam orders that parents be treated kindly and graciously even if they are non-Muslims. Almighty Allah says: “Your Lord has decreed that you worship Him and that you be kind to parents…” (Al-Isra': 23) Allah Almighty also says: “Consort with them in the world kindly…” (Luqman: 15) Islam also exhorts people to observe and maintain good relationship with kith and kin. The obligation of kindness and good relationship is emphasized on the occasions of joy and merriment as well as on the occasions of difficulties and afflictions, the greatest of which is death that brings relatives together when they are bereaved of one of them. Man intrinsically tends to express his feelings towards the deceased, whether a relative or a close acquaintance. Therefore, we read in the authentic hadith on the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) visited the grave of his mother and wept and caused those who were with him to weep, and said: "I asked my Lord to allow me to ask forgiveness for her, but He refused to given me permission. Then I asked Him to permit me to visit her grave and He gave me leave. So, visit graves for they remind one of death.” (Reported by Muslim and Ahmad and the compilers of Sunan except At-Tirmidhi) Moreover, Islam calls for respecting any person, whether a believer or a disbeliever, in his/her lifetime and posthumously. It is reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim in an authentic hadith that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) stood up when a Jewish funeral proceeded in front of him. Somebody informed him that the dead person was a Jew. The Prophet replied: “Is it not a soul?” Now, the soul of a father, a mother or a close relative is entitled to more respect. Therefore, a Muslim may attend the funeral of his non-Muslim parents or one of his non-Muslim relatives. He may attend the religious ceremonies held for the deceased in churches and synagogues, provided that he does not participate in the prayers, rites and other religious activities. He may also attend the burial. In all that, his intention should be to do the duty of kindness (to parents) and good relationship with kith and kin, and sharing the misfortune with the family and strengthening the relationship with relatives, and avoiding what may lead to estrangement if he fails to attend such occasions." Excerpted from: http://www.e-cfr.org/en/ Moreover, Dr. Salah Sultan, President of the Islamic American University and Professor of Islamic Jurisprudence, Cairo University, adds: "A Muslim should attend the funeral of his non-Muslim parents just as a courteous gesture without participating in any of their rituals, for Islam has set certain rituals to be performed in funeral service; this leaves no room for any innovations. By attending, one shows that Islam is keen on maintaining relations. Allah Almighty says: " But if they strive with thee to make thee ascribe unto Me as partner that of which thou hast no knowledge, then obey them not. Consort with them in the world kindly…" (Luqman: 15). Birr (doing good) is a right a Muslim owes a fellow Muslim and non-Muslim as well. If it's a duty for a man to sustain his non-Muslim parents, then it is his responsibility to attend their funeral prayer and accept people's condolences as a righteous deed towards parents." The neighbor holds a special status in Islam. Islam encourages Muslims to treat their neighbors in a gentle way that reflects the true and genuine spirit of Islam as exemplified in its tolerant aspect especially with people of other faiths. It makes no difference whether the neighbors are Muslim or non-Muslim. Ayesha, the Mother of the Believers, stated that she once asked the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), "O Messenger of Allah! I have two neighbors. To whom shall I send my gifts?" the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "To the one whose gate is nearer to you."

Originally posted by GDwonder: Interesting topic Mr. B, what I know is that, Islam was introduced to Somalia long before even Arabian peninsula get the message, this means before Egypt, Syria, and the rest. We as a people never had any issues with the faith, and it blended perfectly with our heritage. We didn't lose our language like so many places around the world that totally has been taken over by the outsider figure -which ever it maybe. Our current problem is the new conquest by wahabis to dismantle every good aspect of our life, and replace it with religious dogma, so we can ever be followers, what a shame that this is being done by nobody else but people who claim to be Somalis. Spot on GD. We must unclench ourselves from the radicalism coming out of Saudi Arabia. We must go back to our own language and traditions. Originally posted by B: Even if we accept these ideas and values wholeheartedly, we need to reconfigure it to suit our needs and make it work for ‘us’ as opposed to the way it was used and practised in its place of origin. We are different people and as such carefully considerations need to be made when importing a new ideology. Nice, the re-invention of concepts of governance, the Somali experiment Originally posted by B: We need to have a true expression of Islam. The only way this could be found is through the use of Somali language in translating the Quran in Somali rather than Arabic. Why do we need an intermediary ( Arabic language) to pray to Allah? Why is it read and only accepted in Arabic. Because it says in Surat Yusuf: "Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand." Prayers must be said in Arabic because the Quran was revealed in that language. The use of Somali in prayers makes sense to me though, that it would be easier for people to understand what they are reading instead of mumbling words that mean nothing to them. Hence knowing their religion better. Originally posted by B: We need to find whatever existed in pre-Islamic Somalia and recreate/replicate it, at least there that was something 'our' ancestors created rather than being imported wholesale from different places from the world. I'm not sure if Somalis had a "3asr al jahiliyyah" like the Arabs but if we did then going back to pre-Islamic times would negate our Muslim identity wouldn't it? However, I think with 1300 years of Islam, we have created our own unique identity which was shattered in 1991 and replaced with something that is alien to us.

Originally posted by Blessed.*: The Quran says that Allah will establish the sharia if we believe and work for it but Muslims today, we just complain and then turn our backs on the deen and look for alternatives. This is what's happening with Somalis now. We're faced with the fitnah of Al Shabaab and all of a sudden it's 'lets take Islam out of the political sphere!' Is there no Islamic alternative? Extremism has certainly caused the call for religion to be taken out the sphere of governance, I agree it's not a fair way to go about it due to the action of "a few bad apples" as people say. However, I must ask both you Blessed and Ibti, what benefits does a Sharia system have that a Secular one does not? I personally, would rather live in a filtered down version as I am now than to live under a kufr system which alienates me. I have no problems with a filtered down version either, I lived in one for several years, but what is a kufr system? and how does it alienate you? More often than not people present western style secular / democratic states as the absolute ideal and dismiss anything remotely Islamic. There has been positive outcomes of sharia lead states, some though not perfect exist today. I see your point but I hope you appreciate that the story till now has been one sided. It definitely is one sided, the word "Sharia" scares the sh*t out of the white man and they reject it outright just as my awoowe Tuujiye rejects the secular system outright. There is no balance. Although I have always advocated a secular system of governance, I have never advocated taking religion completely out of the public sphere nor the forced secularization of a people who wish to live religiously. I didn't know much about the Malaysian system until Norfsky pointed it out to me and after some research I found that it's a fair and balanced system in a multi-ethnic, multi-religious country that allows the individual federal states to decides whether or not they should apply Sharia and the Sharia only applies to Muslims. I like that, I really do because people are not forced into what they don't want. Although the government interference over the word 'Allah' earlier this year was a messed up move, the country generally lives up to its ideals. Then there is Turkey which is 98% Muslim and has a secular government, but even so, Christians in that country are severely persecuted so the protection of the rights of minorities has certainly failed in that case. So you see a secular country has failed in the protection of minorities where a majority Muslim country with a dualistic system has succeeded. The trouble with a lot of these articles is that they are written by people who are out of touch with the Muslim world. People who are exposed to so much propaganda against the sharia and only know about western political ideals that they have a one tunnel vision about what makes an ideal political system for people living in another culture. They look at the dictatorships, the corruption, the repression and ignorance and conclude that Islam is the problem. I don't think Islam in itself is the problem, but you must admit that it has been and still is used as a tool of subjugation and violence. I think there is a need for the Ummah to deeply reflect on injustices committed in the name of Islam and rebel against the status quo because the current leadership in many countries have been in power for decades. However this is easily said than done as there are severe curbs on any expression that criticizes the government in many countries.

weeyheey yaa Tuujiye you're still here? beenta iska daaf otherwise you're no different than inadeerta Ayaan Hirsi... she spews lies and assumptions that are baseless and cannot be backed up, and as we will see below you do the exact same but in the opposite direction: Originally posted by Tuujiye: Saaxiib waxaan secular iyo qurafaadka aad ku dhuumaneysid iska dhaaf.. the only reason aad u rabtid noloshaas xaaraanta ah is to live the life aad ku halaagtamtay... hmmm... how do you know that I want "nolosha xaraamta ah"? you have no concrete reasons do you awoowe aside from your speculations? diintaadi ayaad ka tagtay markaas buu buufis kugu dhacay.. you came here looking for a reason and found few young people oo aqoontooda diinta daciif tahay markaas baad isku qabtay in aad cilmaani tahay..... all I read is blah, blah, blah... diintayda waan ogahay laakin waxaan umalayna inaad adiga aqoonin diintaada... saaxiib dadka aad aqoontooda iyo respectigooda aad maanta raacday oo aad naftaada u dhiibatay waa dad adiga wiligaa kuu arki doonaa wax ka hooseeya... that's an interesting notion, it's people like you who try to instigate and create walls yaa Tuujiye... just try to resist the voices in your head, it'll be better for you... umad aan nijaasada iska dhaqin oo wax kaste xalaaleystay ayaad dhahday maanta waa dad aqoon yahan ah... don't blame your problems iyo your weak qalbi the rest of the muslim world saaxiib ee sida isku dhaam waad liidataayee... you really are a bigot arent you? first you talk about respecting other diins and now this... anyway, the Muslim world has it's problems like the Western world, but it's people like you who try "bigot-your-way" out of those problems by sweeping them under the rug and pretending they don't exist... in the West people face their problems with protests, blogs, organizations etc. etc. and I would like something of the same in the Muslim world, but it's people like you who oppose this... I have great respect for people with a balanced view like Ibtisam or Blessed but it's people like you awoowe with your twisted one-sided thoughts that I have a problem with I asked you a simple question and you said yes that you want to live under a secular government which you think will let you be as gaal as you could be..but the sad part is, you are somalian and you will never have that life.... Firstly, I am Somali not Somalian so let's get that straight secondly, could you answer the simple question as to why you assume I am a gaal? No one has effectively answered that question, so the balls in your court... I been following you and other gaalo in SOL for sometime now and everyone sees that..and my goal was to show people your true iner intention.... you all run away from the truth.... your all cofused and need help and have a little knowledge of what ever you believe too... hahahaha.. you amuse me awoowe with your self-righteousness, why do you think we "gaalo" are confused? Because we don't have the same view as you? saaxiib since aad isiisay weynaan aan kaa weynahay somalida waxee ku maah maahday "nin gu' kaa weyn, kaa waayo aragsan" I live next to gaalo adiga oo kale ahi and work with them..and yes waa somali.... wax macno iyo xigmad lehina kuma hadlaan... bax Fox news hoos fadhiiso and enjoy your Glen Beck stories... If one would look at what you have been saying Tuujiye, you're not any different than a Muslim version of Glen Beck and Co. you call other infidels and point fingers just because they don't think the same way you do...

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^^How the hell do you know? Because he told you so and as a Catholic you belive it? After the Nazi defeat, everyone "hated Hitler".. Madax adeeg ha igu bilaabin yaa Duke... let me repeat what I said... Nothing revisionist about the fact that he was conscripted to the Hitler Youth Maybe he was a passionate Nazi, that still doesn't negate the fact that he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth at the age of 14...

Originally posted by General Duke: quote: WOW! I certainly didnt know that about Ratzinger. However, let's get the record straight, he was 14 when he was conscripted to the Hitler Youth and refused to attend meetings, meaning he had no choice. Revisionist history is not enough lad. The Pope seems to always telling us a fib at every corner, just like he did not know anything about the systematic abuse of children under his watch. Throughout its history the Papacy has always been full of fake shallow individuals, criminals; even the Medici & Borgia’s families produced Popes. Nothing unusual about a Nazi one. Nothing revisionist about the fact that he was conscripted to the Hitler Youth

Originally posted by Maxaatiri: At the time the Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth, it was almost impossible to escape enlistment. Many of my friend's grandparents were members, and none believe in Nazi ideology today, they were just kids after all. Put yourself in the position of any German person during that time and you will realise that you either had to be stupidly brave, or join them. Spot on.

Originally posted by General Duke: What would you call a member of the Hitler Youth gang, a proper German? WOW! I certainly didnt know that about Ratzinger. However, let's get the record straight, he was 14 when he was conscripted to the Hitler Youth and refused to attend meetings, meaning he had no choice. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-04-23-new-pope-defied-Nazis_x.htm