Whenever a calamity befalls the muslims nations as it so often does.Who are the first ones to go there? Of course the christian missionaires or more commonly known as "aid workers".Just browsing through their websites they have profiles of all peoples in africa. Yes including most somalis.Who do you think is sponsoring the somali bantus? I watched the programme where sudanese families where staying with catholics in the usa.Even in london the people i see doing missionary work are none other then the jehovas witnesses!Where they hand out leaflets in somali.

Originally posted by illegal some-alien: i dont completely believe this story. i dont see what the point of the story is either. i'm wary of the islamic propaganda ive been hearing lately, shouldnt it be enough that you yourself have accepted islam as the truth? do we have to look for famous people of the past and present to validate our faith? i dont think we need propaganda to prove islams validity. of course i dont know the validty of the story or its accuracy. But i wasn't focusing on the famous peoples. My interest in the story, if indeed it is true. Was from the way he may have been convinced he was the prophet but then declined due to supposed pressure. I was reading something from an afro carribean, who was basically saying that two jewish preists admitted to him that the prophet in their books who was to come was probably Muhammad saw. Even you see in some of the bible translations they exchange the word arab for "nomad".Or the fact the ishmael was prophecized to give birth to a great nation and then suddenly we don't read nothing about what happened to the supposed great nation. Anwyay i agree with you we dont need propoganda, but i found the method of questioning and conclusion to the story(if it is indeed true) interesting.Which made me wonder how many people knew islam as the truth but didn't except it due to whatever circumstances their may have been?

Yeah man Alexander teh great was a probably a homosexaul and not dhul qarnayn. But some people believe that Cyrus the great the ruler or persia could have been Dhul-Qarnyan.Because of him being honoured in jewish scriptures...... In 1971, the UN translated it into all of its official languages. The cylinder decrees the normal themes of Persian rule: religious tolerance, abolishment of slavery, freedom of choice of profession and expansion of empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_great http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great_in_the_Quran Theory of cyrus the great being Dhul qarnayn in the quran

http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html Azaan: An incredible medium for the proclamation of Tawheed of Almighty Allah and Risaalat of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam, the sound of which constantly echoes around the globe. Amazing though it sounds, it is an established fact. Have a look at a map of the world and you will find Indonesia (an Islamic country) on the eastern side of the earth’s central landmass. Indonesia consists of numerous small islands, the principle ones amongst them being Java, Sumatra, Borneo and Saibil. It is the largest country in the world, with 180 million inhabitants. The number of non-muslims here is relatively small. As soon as dawn breaks on the eastern side of Saibil, at approximately 5:30 am local time, Fajar Azaan begins. Thousands of Mu’azzins in eastern Indonesia commence proclaiming the Tawheed (oneness) of the Almighty, Omnipotent and Omniscient Allah and Risaalat (Universal Apostleship) of the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam. The process then continues and advances towards the Western Islands of Indonesia. The time difference between the eastern and western islands of Indonesia is one and a half hours. Hence, one and a half hours after the Azaan has been completed in Saibil, it echoes in Jakarta on Java island. Sumatra then follows suit and before this auspicious process of calling Azaan ends in Indonesia, it has already begun in Malaysia. Burma is next in line, and within an hour of its commencement in Jakarta, it reaches Dacca, the capital city of Bangladesh. No sooner the calling of Azaan ends in Bangladesh, it has already prevailed in western India, from Calcutta to Srinagar. It then advances towards Bombay and the environment of entire India resounds with this august proclamation. Srinagar and Sialkot (a city in north Pakistan) have the same timing for Azaan. The time difference between Sialkot, Kota, Karachi and Gowadar (a city in Baluchistan, a province of Pakistan) is forty minutes, and within this time, Fajar Azaan is heard throughout Pakistan. Before it ends there, however, it has already begun in Afghanistan and Muscat. The time difference between Muscat and Baghdad is one hour. Azaan resounds during this one hour in the environments of Hijaaz-e-Muqaddas (Holy cities of Makkah and Madinah), Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Iraq. The time difference between Baghdad and Alexandria in Egypt is again one hour. Azaan continues to resound in Syria, Egypt, Somalia and Sudan during this hour. Alexandria and Istanbul are situated on the same geographical longitude. The time difference between eastern and western Turkey is one and a half hours, and during this time it is echoed with the call to prayer. Alexandria and Tripoli (capital of Libya) are located at an hour’s difference from one another. The process of calling Azaan thus continues throughout the whole of Africa. Therefore, the proclamation of the Oneness of Allah and the Prophethood of Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam that had begun in the eastern islands of Indonesia reaches the Eastern Shore of the Atlantic ocean after nine and a half hours. Prior to the Azaan reaching the shores of the Atlantic, the process of Zohar Azaan has already commenced in eastern Indonesia, and before it reaches Dacca, Asar Azaan has started. This has hardly reached Jakarta one and half hours later, then the time of Maghrib becomes due, and no sooner has Maghrib time reached Sumatra, then the time for calling Isha Azaan has commenced in Saibil! When the Muazzins of Indonesia are calling out Fajar Azaan, the Muazzins in Africa are calling out the Azaan for Isha. If we were to ponder over this phenomenon seriously and studiously, we would conclude the amazing fact that there is not a single moment when thousands if not hundreds of thousands of Muazzins around the world are not proclaiming the Oneness of Almighty Allah and the Apostleship of the noble Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam on the surface of this earth! Insha-Allah, this universal and continuous calling of the Azaan shall not cease until the Day of Judgement, and we should all make du`a for the same, AMEEN. Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar. Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest. Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar. Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest. Ash-hadu alla ilaha illa-llah. I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but Allah. Ash-hadu alla ilaha illa-llah. I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship but Allah. Ash-hadu anna Muhammadar-Rasulullah. I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah Ash-hadu anna Muhammadar-Rasulullah. I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah Hayya ‘ala-s-Salah, hayya ‘ala-s-Salah. Hasten to the Prayer, hasten to the Prayer. Hayya ‘ala-l-falah, hayya ‘ala-l-falah. Hasten to real success, hasten to real success Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar. Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest. La ilaha illa-llah

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id=36157 Heraclius, the Roman king, upon receiving a letter from Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam/ SAWS - peace be upon him) calling him to embrace Islam, issued orders to present before him anyone coming from Makkah to Syria, so as to collect information about the Prophet (SAWS). Abu Sufyân was found and was presented to the ruler along with some other men. Abu Sufyân had several skirmishes with the Prophet (SAWS) and he was a harsh critic against Islam. Abu Sufyân says that he was brought to the town of Elia. The court was full of important royal officers and Hirqil (Heraclius) was sitting wearing his crown. He asked his interpreter to ask who was close in kinship to the man who claimed he was a Prophet (SAWS). Abu Sufyân: I am his kin. Hirqil: What is the nature of your kinship? Abu Sufyân: He is my cousin. And I say so because none in the caravan except me is the descendant of Abd Manâf. Hirqil: Call him to come in front and have his colleagues stand beside him. I shall ask him some questions. Direct his colleagues to point out when Abu Sufyân has told a lie. Abu Sufyân said that he would have said many things but he did not as he was afraid of being contradicted by his colleagues. Hirqil: What is his lineage? Abu Sufyân: He comes of a good family. Hirqil: Did anyone make a claim like this before? AbuSufyân: No. Hirqil: Did anyone accuse him of being a liar? Abu Sufyân: No. Hirqil: Was anyone of his forefathers a king? Abu Sufyân: No. Hirqil: Who is accepting his religion, the rich or the poor? Abu Sufyân: The poor. Hirqil: Are his followers increasing or decreasing? Abu Sufyân: They are increasing. Hirqil: Do his followers abandon his religion in disgust? Abu Sufyan: No. Hirqil: Does he break pledges? Abu Sufyân: No, but an agreement has been recently reached between us, and I hope he will deviate from the agreed terms. Abu Sufyân said that he could not say anything beyond this against the Prophet (SAWS) lest his companions might contradict him. Hirqil: Did you have skirmishes with him? Abu Sufyân: Yes. Hirqil: What was the result? Abu Sufyân: Sometimes he won and sometimes we did. Hirqil: What is his message? Abu Sufyân: He asks us to worship only one God and attribute no partners to Him. He also says not to worship idols or deities of the ancestors. He directs us to offer prayers and give alms. He also exhorts us to be pious and God-fearing, observant of promises and trustworthy. The king then asked his interpreter to explain to him (Abu Sufyân): "You say that he is of a good lineage. Prophets are always of good lineage. You also admit that none had made such claims earlier. Had this been the case, I would have concluded that he was also following them. You admit that none had made any accusation against him of telling a lie before his declaration of being a Prophet. So it is not possible that he is telling a lie about God when he has not behaved as such in human dealings. You also admit that none among his ancestors was a ruler. Had it been so, there could have been a case for him to try to acquire a kingdom. You again admit that the poor and destitute are entering his religious following. And history speaks that only such people are first attracted to Prophets. You also agree that the Muslims are increasing in number. This indicates the impact of Faith which goes on progressing till it is perfected. You also admit that none reverts from his Faith. This is the proof of the strength of Faith which once grounded in the heart, does not recoil. You agree that he never breaks his promises. Undoubtedly Prophets are made of such stuff. You say that there had been battles between you and him, and sometimes you won and sometimes he won. Prophets are also put to such tests, but ultimately victory is theirs. You told that he asks people to worship none but only one God. He also forbids idol worship or paying respect to other deities. He asks to offer prayers and be truthful, pious and trustworthy. These are without doubt the ways of the Prophets." The king further added that he knew that a Prophet was about to appear but he never thought he would emerge from Arabia. He (Hirqil) further said: "If your statements are true, he would conquer this country as well where I am reigning today. I long to be with him and wash his feet." Then he advised his courtiers to accept the faith of Islam, but they did not agree to his proposal and were ready to revolt. So the ruler did not accept the Faith in fear that he would lose his throne.

Thanks for the info very much appreciated!

Salaam brothers and sisters I was wondering is it ok to wake up say about 30 minutes before the fajr prayer and perform the night prayer?Also i am unclear about the exact or desirable number of rakkas performed.The way i have been performing it ,is 8 rakkas just like taraweeh prayer(two rakkas each time). I would be grateful if someone could give me more information!

QUOTE]Originally posted by muraad: [QB] This is her RESIGNITION's Press release. Tweede-Kamerfractie / Persverklaring Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Engels) door Ayaan Hirsi Ali . Issues related to Islam – such as impediments to free speech; refusal of the separation of Church and State; widespread domestic violence; honor killings; the repudiation of wives; and Islam’s failure to condemn genital mutilation -- marriage. There is widespread domestic violence of women in western europe I dont have the figures but i think it could be one of the highest causes of womens deaths in europe.Secondly genital mutilation was practiced in somalia way before islam. Infact it still goes on many african societies. Lastly honor killings is not specific to islam. As somebody already correctly pointed this is largely an "asiatic" influence. If ayan was serious about debating with the islamic public. She has gone about it in the completly wrong way. Reinforcing negative stereotypes.Which serve no benefit, but to only widen the mistrust and alientaion of muslim communities within their hosts. People are going on hunger strikes at the moment india. Because the government is introducing legislation to enforce affirmative action for the lower castes. Whom in hindu society ahve been persecuted for thousands of years. Why isn't the hindu holy book being taken to court? Or all hindus portrayed as rascists? This is the problem, if a muslim critisizes a the jewish religion or the christian doctrine. He is treated with suspicion or labelled "anti semetic".For people who crusade on about tolerance and respect. It is a great irony that they should be attacking millions of peoples beliefs! You cannot expect them to welcome you with open arms.When slander misrepresent something which is sacred to them and tell them "hey guys i have come to liberate you"

Hirsi Ali 'out of place at AEI' Researcher Peter van Ham of the Clingendael Institute said Ayaan Hirsi Ali will be out of place at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). "You would sooner expect Geert Wilders to be there than Hirsi Ali," he said in reaction to the news she is leaving the Netherlands to work for the AEI. According to Van Ham the AEI is a very conservative institute that has flourished since President George W. Bush came to power. "It is definitely not a liberal bastion," he said. Hirsi Ali, he predicted, will not be encouraged to express liberal views about euthanasia, homosexuality and abortion. "The people who work there have a very religiously-tinted worldview. I think Hirsi Ali will feel totally claustrophobic there."

And they said, No matter what sign you bring us with which to bewitch us, we will not be believers for you." 35 "And even if We had sent down to them the angels and the dead spoke to them and We gathered together every [created] thing in front of them, they would not believe unless Allah should will. most of them, [of that], are ignorant." 36 "And even if We opened to them a gate from the heaven and they continued therein to ascend, they would say, Our eyes have only been dazzled; rather, we are a people affected by magic." 37 Whilst doing some reading i found this interesting qoute. "If the atheist can trick the theist into bearing the burden of proof he will escape bearing that burden and escape having it exposed that his atheism is non-rational. He wants the theist to say, "I cannot prove it, but I believe in the existence of faith." Then the atheist will crow, "See, Theism is irrational." Then he will pose for the audience as a rational man and conceal that he came to atheism by irrational means."

Wow agnostic yaa ina baray? http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050303-115733-9519r.htm Two developments are plaguing atheism these days. One is that it appears to be losing its scientific underpinnings. The other is the historical experience of hundreds of millions of people worldwide that atheists are in no position to claim the moral high ground. British philosopher Anthony Flew, once as hard-nosed a humanist as any, has turned his back on atheism, saying it is impossible for evolution to account for the fact that one single cell can carry more data than all the volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Bismillahiraxmanirahim If anyone knows how to contact mrs Hersi, please ask her what she has done or is doing for her fellow somali people? Or better what has she actually done for muslim women? She talks of democracy, but who elected her as an ambassador for muslim women?She talks of muslims persecuting people, then why is she is persecuting me? According to her I am a terrorist, women abusing, lunatic who hates the country he resides in!I would like to tak this moment to also spare a little moment for our blessed somali muslim women. Those who came to the west , raised chiLdren on their own due to absent fathers. Those who tried to educate their children about islam. Made wonderful food for us, yet found a way to collect their children from school and did the shoppinf with no car.Our women who despite living in the free land. Still chose to be outasts who wore their hijab and niqab with pride.Our young sisters who also chose to be different from the rest of the society. Those who study day and night, work and chose islam as a way of conducting themselves.Sisters who cared so much about their religion they left their universities because they werent allowed to dress modestly.If islam is oppressive then why are so many of our young brothers and sisters flocking to it? Thanks to people like Ayan spreading lies and calculated propoganda about our religion. The whole of europe is looking at muslims as the enemy. I am not saying that muslims around the world are perfect. far from it. As somali muslims we aslo need to assess our selves very carefully. Why do we get upset more about Ayan Hersi? When muslims blow themselves in front of women and children blowing themselves to pieces.Then qouting from the quran as thier reason. Remember the cartoon protests? Forty muslims where killed due to the actions of other muslims. Ayan Hersi is soon to release her new film. In which she claims homosexuals will ask God questions. What will the muslims do then? Burn the somali flag or maybe protest at the dutch embassy!Let us not get carried away with this women. Our brothers and sisters a this very moment our starving to death. Some are being killed and fleeing from their homes. Even our homeland their are people when they speak do nothing but curse our beloved prophet, everytime they get into an argument. Yet i have never seen anyone correcting them or denouncing them for using the prophets name as an insult.In many cities in the west our men have left their families, for the marfish.Brothers selling crack cocaine. Brothers being stabbed or shot simply because they happen to be somali. Our communities are a joke, they organise themselves on the basis of qabil. We seem to have the answers for Ayan Hersi live. Yet when we hear a calamity has befallen one of our brothers and sisters. Some of us ask what qabil they belong to.We should be more concerned about our daughters and sisters, whom Mrs Hersi wants to be as free as possible. Indeed we have tasted this freedom that she craves and witnessed the consquences it can bring. Many of us where lost in the west. We where where free as ever. What have we done with this freedom? The greatest freedom is islam and ALLAH swt wil liberate this. But my brothers and sisters we need to get our priorities straight. Compare ayan hersi to all our beloved muslims who are suffering at this moment. Those who despite the greatest pressures have never thought about leaving islam for a second. Those who cling to their religion like it is a matter of death.Look around the world you see China, Russia and India all booming. The muslims nations are lagging behind. 80% of the worlds refugees are muslims. It is not because they are being opressed. It is becuae we have left our duty. When islam came to us we realised our duty and became the greatest nation in this earth. It is time to evaluate our households and streets. How many potential Ayans are there. Have we conveyed the message of islam to those we see as doing wrong? Prophet Muhammad saw never insulted no one. Nor did any other prophet. They used their intellectual ability and the quran and sunnah to answer thier critics. Yet every somali forum i go to, all i hear is "kill her" or "behead her". I did not mean to lecture here, but brothers and sisters look around at our nation. Maybe ALLAH swt is using AYAN Hersi as a test and sign for us. Maybe ALLAH is showing us how low the somali people have gone?

source(islamcan.com) There was a king who decided to take a tour of his country. As he passed by different places, everyone rushed to see him. However, while passing by a certain place, he noticed a poor old man who did not pay any attention to the king's arrival and remained engaged in his own activities. The king went up to this poor man and asked why he did not join the people to see him. The poor man replied, "Before you, there was another king who once passed by this place. Everyone gathered to see him as well. But, few days later he died and was buried in a place nearby. A poor man also died during that time and was buried near the king's grave. After some time, a strong flood passed through that area causing those graves to overturn. As a result, the bones of the poor man became mixed up with those of the king's. We could not differentiate between them any longer. After seeing this, it does not matter to me anymore as to who is a king and who is a beggar. In the end, our home is the same.â€

Source(islamcan.com) Alexander the Great is known as the most powerful military leader and conqueror of the ancient world. Before he turned 30 years old he conquered an empire stretching over 3,000 miles from Greece to India. He was born in 356 BC in Macedonia, known today as northern Greece. On his sickbed and during his last hour alive, Alexander the Great told his generals "After my death, when you put my body in the casket, let my arms hang over the edges with my palms wide open, so the public can see my empty hands while I am leaving the world." After he died, many dignitaries came to view the royal funeral and were very surprised to see his arms hanging over the edge of the casket with his palms wide open. They asked questions about this unique scene. A wise man told them “O’ People, Alexander the Great is telling us that when he ruled the world, great treasures of gold, silver and wealth came to be under his possession. Yet, indeed he is leaving the world empty handed." Source: Partially extracted from the writtings of JC Pinkerton. Anas bin Malik, may Allah be pleased with him, reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Three things follow the bier of a dead man, two of them come back and one is left with him: the members of his family, wealth and his good deeds. The members of his family and wealth come back while his deeds alone are left with him. (Sahih Muslim)

Music and its Roots in Voodoo http://www.ezinearticles.com/?Music-and-its-Roots-in-Voodoo&id=175944 In West Africa, the “professional†music-makers had been known as the Griol. They related the ancestral tales and served as the keepers of the tribes’ myths and history. Their function was much like that of the Medicine Men of the Native Americans. And like the Shamans of our own continent, their art was associated with magic and healing. With the evolution of the Delta Blues, a sound inspired mainly by suffering and despair, the musicians found a lyrical formula to mirror the voodoo implications that had always lived within the music itself. Consider Robert Johnson, who recorded such songs as “Me and the Devil Blues†and “Hellhound on my Trail.†Johnson, who will always remain an enigma amongst music scholars, was himself influenced by older songs such as Skip James’s “Devil Got My Womanâ€. (Remember that one from Ghost World?)

Originally posted by Nur: [QB] An e-Nuri Point of view about Music and Dancing This is how Night Clubs evolved to their present day glitter, lighting and music set up. This is a Satan's Temple, where his worshippers are shaken vigoriously ( Ta Uzzuhum Azza) to the rythem of the music, their money taken away, their dignity compromised , reduced to animal status. I think you are absolutely spot on here. These types of music work like computer viruses attacking the hardrive of the person which is the heart. Once the person is infected then he becomes a slave to the devils. Suddenly he is walking like them(boppin), The sister is dressing just like the message was saying in her favourite song. By the end without realising the type of music the person listened to has shapped their character without realising.Take the example of Tupac Shakur whom is considered one of the greatest artists to have ever lived. To many young people whether they have realised it or not he has become like a prophet to them. They emulate his dress code, his slang, his way of dealing with women and the type of drugs he smoked. Some even await his return years after his death his records sell millions. I too was one these people. I memorised most of his songs knew more about his life then i did about the Quran. The funny thing is that you don't need to be an expert to fight this virus or work out the goal of these artists. For Allah swt has warned in great detail about taking shaytan has a freind. Furthermore Tupac shakur rhymed in his own lyrics that he was hellbound, he told us he sold his soul to the devil. Him and many artists alike are the messengers of shaytan. Ever Wondered why Tupac said he wasn't gonna die? Well i think what he meant was in the mental sense not the phsyical. His words are still misleading people even though he is dead. So therefore his body is dead but his words are still alive. Which means he is still portraying the message of shaytan. At one time in his life he was given dawa which he refused, but one his freinds took the shahada and so did 17 of his entourage.In the song entitled "I aint mad at ya" he says about his freind"Oh you a Muslim now, no more dope game Heard you might be comin home, just got bail Wanna go to the Mosque, don't wanna chase tail I seems I lost my little homie he's a changed man Hit the pen and now no sinnin is the game plan" Music has existed for thousands of years. Only the beat slightly changed with the aid of technology. The faces have changed but the aim is still the same. It is to distract man from worshipping his true creator. To make young girls lose their virginty, to make us abandon zakat so that we are wasteful with our money. This is why Islam is today considered the enemy of freedom. Because all of the above things cannot happen if people truly embrace the quran and sunnah. Men cannot undercut the poor and charge high interests for products which cost pennies to make. Remember how Pharoah and His socerers controlled the people?Remember how the pagan quraish used to get wealthy from the house of ALLAH swt? dancing around naked worshipping false gods. Almost every prophet was faced with a similar situation. Their wisdom triumphed over the temptation and false promises of Shaytan. Inshallah today our brothers and sisters will leave the false promises and return to the True words and promises of the creator ALLAH SWT.

Curb your enthusiasm, atheer. Nur has things under control here. [/QB] Hayee Adeer

Click on the following link to see for yourself how ridiclous and absurd the claim of somaliland is! I too support them if they went to split, so long as they dont claim other peoples land. http://www.somalilandgov.com/map.htm You cannot build nations on myths.

http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/zionist_plan.html This national ethnic minority picture extending from Morocco to India and from Somalia to Turkey points to the absence of stability and a rapid degeneration in the entire region. When this picture is added to the economic one, we see how the entire region is built like a house of cards, unable to withstand its severe problems.

Originally posted by Cara: In a book of 6000+ verses, getting one or two predictions right is no miracle. Sorry once again to dwelge into your debate but am sure brother Nur would excuse me as it is the duty for every muslim to defend the Quran and correct misconceptions about islam. I will once again discuss other prophecies and promises in the quran. Contrary to your opinion i think it is truly remarkable if we fully analyse the context and timing of the promises made in the Quran. The history of Muhammad saw is one of the most detailed among religous figure. Therefore i suggest that if we are to have a logical and meaninful debate here. we musn't be quick to dismiss the Quran and the teachings of Muhammad saw. The following is taken from wikipedia.com this relates to the early persecution of Muhammad saw and his followers. As the ranks of Muhammad's followers swelled, he became a threat to the local tribes and the rulers of the city. Their wealth, after all, rested on the Kaaba, a sacred house of idols and the focal point of Meccan religious life. If they threw out their idols, as Muhammad preached, there would be no more pilgrims, no more trade, and no more wealth. Muhammad’s denunciation of the Meccan traditional religion was especially offensive to his own tribe, the Quraysh, as they were the guardians of the Ka'aba. Muhammad and his followers were persecuted. Some of them fled to the Ethiopian Kingdom of Aksum and founded a small colony (called Negash, or "King") there under the protection of the Ethiopian king. The Quraysh attempted to persuade the king to expel the Muslims on grounds that their faith was contadictory to his Christian following. The Muslims were allowed to stay when they demonstrated that the Qur'an paid great respect to Jesus and Mary. Several suras and parts of suras are said to date from this time, and reflect its circumstances: see for example al-Masadd, al-Humaza, parts of Maryam and al-Anbiya, al-Kafirun, and Abasa. In 619, both Muhammad's wife Khadijah and his uncle Abu Talib died; it was known as aamul hazn ("the year of sorrows.") Muhammad's own clan withdrew their protection of him. Muslims patiently endured hunger and persecution. Relations between Mecca and Medina rapidly worsened (see surat al-Baqara). Meccans confiscated all the property that the Muslims had left in Mecca. In Medina, Muhammad signed treaties of alliance and mutual help with neighboring tribes. Muhammad turned to raiding caravans bound for Mecca. Caravan raiding (al-ghazw) was an old Arabian tradition; Muslims justified the raids by the Meccans' confiscation of the property they had left at Mecca and the state of war deemed to exist between the Meccans and the Muslims. Secular scholars add this was also a matter of survival for the Muslims. They owned no land in Medina and if they did not raid, they would have to live on charity and whatever wage labor they could find, both of which were in short supply in the small oasis. In March of 624, Muhammad led some 300 warriors in a raid on a Meccan merchant caravan. The Meccans successfully defended the caravan and then decided to teach the Medinans a lesson. They sent a small army against Medina. On March 15, 624 near a place called Badr, the Meccans and the Muslims clashed. Though outnumbered more than 3 times (1000 to 300) in the battle, the Muslims met with success, killing at least forty-five Meccans and taking seventy prisoners for ransom; only fourteen Muslims died. This marked the real beginning of Muslim military achievement As you may well be aware Muhammad saw and his followers where severley persecuted. Yet despite all the trials and tribulations of the muslims. Muhammad saw remained confident that his religion would triumph over the pagans. What was his hope? The quran the very book that you so openly dismiss. If his promises would have failed then he surely would have gone down in history as a grand liar and amogst all the other false prophets whos promises failed in misery. All i am asking you do is to simply consider the how the quran accurately predicted that muslims will not only grow but they will also become dominant and triumphant. You see this is the miracle of the Quran ALLAH swt sent us an illetrate man from the arabian desert. To overcome every possible trial sent by the idol worshippers and become one of the most talked about personalities in the history of man. once again Muhammad's own clan withdrew their protection of him. Muslims patiently endured hunger and persecution. The Qur'an says: "Allah has promised to those of you who believe, and do good deeds, that He will surely grant them in the land inheritance of power as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion which He has chosen for them. And that He will change their state after fear to one of security and peace. They will worship Me alone and not associate aught with Me." (24:55) And also: "Say to those who deny faith, soon you will be vanquished." (3:12) and "When comes the help of Allah and Victory, and you see the people enter Allah's religion in multitudes . . ." (110:1-2) The first verse was revealed at a time of the Muslim's weakness, promising the righteous victory, and the second predicting the peoples entering into Islam in crowds, and so it came to pass, after the capture of Mecca, and in the time of the Caliphs Abu Bakr, 'Umar, 'Uthman and 'Ali, who were from the most pious companions of the Prophet, were established by Allah in the land, defeating the Persian and Roman empires, so that Islam was established from Spain to parts of China in a mere twenty years. This, in part, fulfills another prophecy of the Qur'an "It is He who has sent the Messenger with guidance, and the religion of truth, to make it triumphant over all religions." (9:32) As i related to you Allah swt chose Muhammad saw as a sign for humanity. He was poor, an orphan, illetrate, relied on support from the poor and slaves. Yet this very man claimed that his new founded religion would overcome all other religion in that region. The impact of islam from mecca and medina to africa, asia and even europe cannot be overestimated. The man who was once laughed at two years after his death. He would inspire armies which stage the greatest conquest ever seen in the history of man. This is why Islam is so different from other religions for it is not a religion rather a way of life. This man that you so easily dismiss prophecized that his nation would be great and that they would become great in number. Is this not a miracle in itself considering the circumstances, background and geographical location of Muhammad saw?

Originally posted by Cara: If I understood the story right, the Persians defeated the Romans, the early Muslims were demoralized, but Muhammed told them in this verse that soon the Romans would be victorious, which they eventually were. As proof for the existence of god, I would say this is not particularly convincing. The Roman and Persian empires were at war with one another for nearly 700 years, with first one then the other winning battles and skirmishes all over the Middle East. The "front line" was so long that predicting that the Romans would win is like predicting it will rain next week. Even if it doesn't rain in your town, it will rain somewhere. All the same, this prophecy would be truly remarkable if it was one of many or if it had been more specific. In a book of 6000+ verses, getting one or two predictions right is no miracle. Sorry to interrupt your debate but i feel that the surah in question is not as simple as you claimed.You correctly stated that the muslims where demoralized at this period of time.However you missed out a vital point, in this surah it is stated that: 2. The Roman Empire has been defeated- 3. In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious- Here you can clearly see that two prophecies are made. A. The Roman empire has been defeated.B. That after thier defeat they will be soon be victorious. Then finally as you said the demoralized muslims are given a further prophecy: 4. Within a few years. With Allah is the Decision, in the past and in the Future: on that Day shall the Believers rejoice- The greater miracle here is that a demoralized muslim population is told that after the victory of the romans they too will rejoice. It so happened that the muslims where victorious in the battle of Badr. You claimed that making a prophecy such as this is like "predicting rain". I have to totally disagree with you, because this propecy was time specific ie within a few a years; secondly it states three events will occur one after another in which i explained above. So we ask what is the relevance of this to your debate? We can discuss and disregard this prophecy today like it was a randon one which meant nothing. But i want to you for a moment to take your mind back to that time period. There is a man who is considered a heretic, insane lunatic with a small group of followers. This man claims that the Persians will defeat the romans in the nearest land, but furthermore the Romans will be victorious after that and the muslims will rejoice at that time. This news gathers around the town people cannot help but laugh at this fanciful propecy made by what they regard as a lunatic. The freind of this man abubakr is summoned a pagan arab asks him arrogantly asks him if he believes in this insane prophecy. He confidently answers that if Muhammad says so then it must be true. A bet is even placed. This man offers 100 camels predicting that this event will not occur, Abu Bakr confidently takes up this bet, though later betting was forbidden for muslims. Do you know what would have happened if this event had not occured? Today i may not be a muslim, Today you may not discussing something called islam with me. The religion of was islam was riding on this very prophecy, if it would have not occured then the enemies of Muhammad would have rejoiced.For finally they could have dismissed the threat they posed to their society. He would also have proven a liar and a fanatic dreamer. The religion of islam would have ceased to exist.To you it proves that the Quran was simply prophectical. I say that Muhammad saw was truly inspired by a divinge being. Finally you tried to downplay the significance of the persians defeating the Romans you compared it to prediciting rain, you are correct in that these two empires where at war for 6 centuries. let us assses the historical significance of this: All the following information is taken from non muslim websites.Apart from the Battle of Badr. http://www.livius.org/sao-sd/sassanids/sassanids.htm The final struggle of the Roman empire -now called Byzantium- and Persia started under Khusrau II 'the victorious' (590-628). Again, the Sassanids were the aggressor. The Byzantines were weakened, because Italy had been invaded by the Langobards, the Slavs were taking hold of the Balkans, and Andalusia was lost to the Visigoths. It was the perfect moment to attack the Byzantine empire, and Khusrau acted accordingly. His armies ravaged the cities of Syria and sacked Jerusalem in 614. (The Jews welcomed the Persians, because the Christians had often persecuted them.) One of the objects the Persians took away was the relic of the True Cross. Khusrau's armies went on to invade Egypt -Alexandria was captured in 619- and in 626, their advance-guards paused only a mile from Constantinople. The Persians even raided Cyprus and occupied Rhodes. It seemed as if the Achaemenid empire was restored, and Khusrau ordered the making of brilliant rock reliefs at Taq-e Bostan. (Go here for a medieval fairy-tale about Khusrau.) The first prophecy was fulfilled. 2. The Roman Empire has been defeated- However, the Byzantine emperor Heraclius was to prove a match for Khusrau. He took some time to train an army, and in 627, he invaded Assyria and Mesopotamia. His campaign was extremely successful: he did not even return to his own empire during the winter, but stayed far behind the enemy lines. The Persian army mutinied and Khusrau was murdered (628). His successor Ardašir III made peace and the relic of the True Cross was restored to Jerusalem. A Sassanid king (Louvre, Paris) Heraclius' victory meant the end of Persia. There were four Sassanid kings in four years, and because there was no real authority, the Arabs -Muslims- were able to defeat the Persians, who were still Zoroastrians. The last Persian king was Yazdgard III, whose reign began in 632. In 636, the Arabs took Ctesiphon, in 641, they invaded Iran (battle of Nehavand), and ten years later, the last Sassanid king died as a fugitive. The Battle of Nineveh was the climactic battle of the last of the Roman-Persian Wars between the Byzantine Empire and the Sassanid Empire, in 627. The Byzantine victory broke the power of the Sassanid dynasty and briefly restored the Empire to its ancient boundaries in the Middle East. During a six-year campaign, the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius had driven the Persians from Asia Minor back into their own territories, but the Persian emperor Khosrau II still refused to make peace. On December 12, 627, the main armies of Heraclius, in personal command, and Khosrau's army commanded by the general Rhahzadh, met at Nineveh. How many soldiers engaged in the battle is unknown. The battle was closely contested, but Heraclius' superior generalship won the day, and Rhahzadh was killed in the fighting. The Persian army was driven from the field and Persia lay open to the Byzantine army. The next year, Persia accepted Heraclius' peace terms Second prophecy was fulfilled 3. In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious- The Battle of Badr http://www.al-islam.org/history/history/badr.html The battle of Badr was the most important among the Islamic battles of Destiny. For the first time the followers of the new faith were put into a serious test. Had victory been the lot of the pagan army while the Islamic Forces were still at the beginning of their developments, the faith of Islam could have come to an end. No one was aware of the importance of the outcome of the Battle as the Prophet (S.A.W.) himself. We might read the depth of his anxiety in his prayerbefore the beginning of the Battle when he stood up supplicating his Lord : God this is Quraish. It has come with all its arrogance and boastfulness, trying to discredit Thy Apostle. God, I ask Thee to humiliate them tomorrow. God, if this Muslim band will perish today, Thou shall not be worshipped. [1] At this battle in which the pagan army consisted of 950 fighters and 314 (including the Messenger S.A.W.), the Islamic defense was a combination of three defensive lines : The personality of the Messenger, his leadership and his unequalled firmness. He (S.A.W.) was to the Muslims the final refuge at Badr and at every battle he attended. The Hashmites (the clan of the Prophet S.A.W.), led by Ali Ibn Abu Talib (A.S.)who entered this battle relatively obscure and came out with unequalled military fame. His military performances became the popular subject of the Arab caravans conversations throughout the Arabic Peninsula. The final prophecy was fulfilled. Ironically the eastern roman empire and the persians would soon be conquered by the Muslims. 3. In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious- It is now up to us to decidw whether Muhammad Saw was truly inspired By ALLAH SWT or Does this prove that the Quran is merely being Prophectical? 6. (It is) the promise of Allah. Never does Allah depart from His promise: but most men understand not. 7. They know but the outer (things) in the life of this world: but of the End of things they are heedless. 8. Do they not reflect in their own minds? Not but for just ends and for a term appointed, did Allah create the heavens and the earth, and all between them: yet are there truly many among men who deny the meeting with their Lord (at the Resurrection)!

Surah 75. The Rising Of The Dead, Resurrection 4. Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers. 36. Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)? 37. Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? 38. Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did ((Allah)) make and fashion (him) in due proportion. 39. And of him He made two sexes, male and female. 40. Has not He, (the same), the power to give life to the dead? THE IDENTITY IN THE FINGERPRINT Everyone, including identical twins, has a unique fingerprint. In other words, people's identities are coded at their fingertips. This coding system may also be compared to the barcode system that is used today. While it is stated in the Qur'an that it is easy for Allah to bring man back to life after death, peoples' fingerprints are particularly emphasized: Yes, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers. (Qur'an, 75:4) The emphasis on fingerprints has a very special meaning. This is because shapes and details on everyone's fingerprint are unique to each individual. Every person who is alive or who has ever lived in this world has a set of unique fingerprints. Furthermore, even identical twins having the very same DNA sequence have their own set of fingerprints.105 Fingerprints attain their final shape before birth and remain the same for a lifetime unless a permanent scar appears. That is why fingerprints are accepted as a very important proof of identity, exclusive to their owner. The science of fingerprints has been used as a non-erring identity determination method. However, what is important is that this feature of fingerprints was only discovered in the late 19th century. Before then, people regarded fingerprints as ordinary curves without any specific importance or meaning. However in the Qur'an, Allah points to the fingertips, which did not attract anyone's attention at that time, and calls our attention to their importance. This importance has only been fully understood in our day. The validity of the technique to establish identity by means of fingerprints (AFS) has been confirmed by various police organisations over the last 25 years and is a legally approved method. No technology of identity verification in our time gives such effective results as fingerprints. Using fingerprints to establish identity has been used in legal processes for the last 100 years and possesses international acceptance.(HarunYahya.com) THE PRESERVATION OF PHARAOH'S BODY What, now! When previously you rebelled and were one of the corrupters? Today we will preserve your body so you can be a Sign for people who come after you. Surely many people are heedless of Our Signs." (Qur'an, 10:91-92) The information that Pharaoh's corpse would serve as a sign for later generations may be regarded as an indication that his body would not decay. On display in the Royal Mummies Chamber of the Egyptian Museum in Cairo is a mummified body believed to be that of this tyrant. In all likelihood, Pharaoh's body floated to shore after being drowned, was found and mummified by the Egyptians, and then carried to a previously prepared burial chamber.182

Critical thinking consists of a mental process of analyzing or evaluating information, particularly statements or "propositions" that people have offered as true. It forms a process of reflecting upon the meaning of statements, examining the offered evidence and reasoning, and forming judgments about the facts. Proposition is a term used in logic and philosophy to describe the content of assertions. Assertions are non-linguistic abstractions from sentences and can be evaluated as either true or false. They are also sometimes referred to as what is said by an utterance.(wikipedia) 1400 Years ago a mysterious man emerged from the arabian desert this man was none other than Muhammad saw. He made several propositions, his challenge was simple. He did not devise theories or carry out scientific experiments. This man could not even read. Yet he made several extraordinary statements which later turned out to be true. Therefore i want to question the self proclaimed athiests and agnostics on what they think about these propehcies and statments made in the quran and hadith.Unfortunately i cannot show you god or perform miracles, however what i can do is show you signs fron the noble quran. So we can come to a logical conclusion. There can be only four logical conclusions here on where Muhammad saw obtained these ideas from. 1. He was merely guessing? 2. Myths and Tales from the past? 3.A Wise men who was a dream interpreter? 4.From a divine source ie God?

1400 years ago a man by the Name of Muhammad(saw) emerged from the arabian desert.And made the following statement. Bare in mind this man had no training in "science, philsophy or sociology. "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted. (The Noble Quran, 49:13)" It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers. (The Noble Quran, 5:44)" Most studies also find that Orientals and "Jews" score about ten points higher than Europeans. Reasons other than innate differences are often found to account for this difference, and few scientists now accept the view that genetic differences can account for the level found.19

Today, all human beings in the world today, are classified as Homo Sapiens and scientists now admit that, biologically, there really is only one race of humans. An ABC News science page stated, "More and more scientists find that the differences that set us apart are cultural, not racial. Some even say that the word 'race' should be abandoned because it's meaningless." Scientists found that if any two people from anywhere in the world were compared, the basic genetic differences between these two would typically be around 0.2 percent - even if they came from the same people group.15 So-called "racial" characteristics that many think are major differences (skin color, eye shape, etc.) account for only 6 percent of this 0.2 percent variation, which amounts to a mere 0.012 percent difference generically. In other words, the so-called "racial" differences are absolutely trivial.15 Recent I.Q. tests of people throughout the world have found that, with allowance for cultural differences, the IQ ranges of all extant identified races is extremely close. The pygmy population of Africa, supposedly the most backward race extant today, test close to average when acclimated to Western life. Few differences are found between the second and third generation pygmies living in large Australian cities who are acclimated to the established European population.19 It is now widely accepted that, given equality of background and similarity of experiences, blacks as a whole closely equal whites in across the-board performance. This confirms prominent anthropologist, Ruth Benedict's early conclusion that "the most careful investigation" shows there is no significant difference between the scores of blacks and whites, even though it is difficult to control for the accumulative effects of deprivation.19 • Most studies also find that Orientals and Jews score about ten points higher than Europeans. Reasons other than innate differences are often found to account for this difference, and few scientists now accept the view that genetic differences can account for the level found.19 It is now widely accepted that, given equality of background and similarity of experiences, blacks as a whole closely equal whites in across the-board performance. This confirms prominent anthropologist, Ruth Benedict's early conclusion that "the most careful investigation" shows there is no significant difference between the scores of blacks and whites, even though it is difficult to control for the accumulative effects of deprivation.19 • Most studies also find that Orientals and Jews score about ten points higher than Europeans. Reasons other than innate differences are often found to account for this difference, and few scientists now accept the view that genetic differences can account for the level found.19