Mr. Odoweyne, At last we have a Somali Lander who make sense and debate in civilized and clear manner although I am in the union camp forever. About Somaliland people being 100% for secessionism I a disagree. As Smith clearly pointed out there large tribes in Somaliland not up for breaking away. Most of the people in Awdhal except power hungry, sell-out Mr. Kahin and his likes do not see the real benefit for them to break away from the rest of Somalia and are on undue influence from their giant neighbour (North west and Togdheer). The other thing is that as you yourself clearly pointed out Somaliland do not have the control of all the original territories what was once known as British Somaliland and today Puntland forces are roaming on the street of many towns officially come under Somaliland. The other thing is Somaliland people are hearing the argument of one side. Where is Democracy you claim? Should let people like Mr.ghalib, Samatar, heard their voices only then we can talk about majority or minority votes. Thanks

I believe for temporary capital Kalkacyo is a good candidate for that since it is one of the largest, well-developed cities in the last 13 years. It is also multi-tribal city. There are too many prejudices against Galkacyo, which are unfounded and baseless and simply out of hate rather than fact. If Somaliland were taking party in the reconciliation conference I would have said Hargaisa since it was second capital of Somalia. . Gaalkacyo, the two clans that dominate in that area still can't agree with which ceel biyaha laga dhaansado markaas aa capital leedahay. First of all there are more than two qabiil who share Galkacyo and the other thing is when did you last heard about violence in Galkacyo city? Last time there was any major violence there was 1991 when the USC attacked the city and massacred hundreds of its innocent citizens. You also amaze me with your choice of xamar as the sole candidate capital!!! The warlords cannot even agree on opening the city airport and the harbour let alone ceel biyo laga cabo.

We are not crying wolf [/QB] That is what I was thinking you are Mr.Qassim.We blame Ethiopia for every thing that Somalis cannot agree on each other. Why make a big deal of number of Parliament while our country's being is at stake. Why make a big deal that Somalia adopts a federal state if that can heal our differences. Surely we are not the first and the last to go this way. We put ourselves into this mess and only us can cut out if want and let us not blame others for our shortcomings. Surely, Ethiopia is our enemy and it will do everything to divide or at least side with one faction leader against another but at the end of the day it is for Somalis to comprehend that and be smarter

I agree in certain ways that women in Somalia and majority outside are the ones keeping the country going and few men are in their standard. But i have fear and my fear is that they exaggerate things and go wild as we see wild women in the West. If this action and others will lead us to compromise our religion then they better not start it too. As well as fighting for their roles with in the society Somali women have also the other duty, which is that, they preserve Islam. If they can do that, I am sure they will succeed and they will make our country a better and prosperous one. Thanks bye

A.J can I ask you why are you obsessed with A/laahi Yusuf of all Somali Leaders including your one who worked for the secret servives and led your people into the torture camps. You not saying Mr. yusuf has did this and that to N.W people, are you? let us hear your accounts dude and dont avoid what i've asked as usual answer as i asked you, OK?

A. J and others there are already signs that Somaliland is coming along. So boy you will never know what happens hadal yuusan kaa tagin. Have you ever heard this maah maah '' Walaashaa iskuma hubtide seedigaa ha isku ceebayn''. Riyaale and the big players in Somaliland have something big on their eyes and that is the prospect of being presidents of Federal somalia and dont think they want to hang on being presidents of Berbera, burco and hargeisa. I believe once they have moved on the rest will realistically come along. Read this bro: Bulshada Somaliland oo shirka Soomaalida ee Kenya u soo dirsanaya Salaadiin, Siyaasiyiin iyo xubno ka tirsan ururadda bulshada rayidka ah Maalmaha soo socda ayaa la filayaa in ay madasha shirka dib u heshiisiinta Soomaalida ee Magaalada Nairobi soo gaaraan Salaadiin, Siyaasiyiin magac leh iyo xubno ka tirsan ururrada bulshada rayidka ah oo ka soo jeeda deegaanada Somaliland, sida aynu ka soo xiganay warar laga helay ilo lagu kalsoonaan karo. Tifatiraha wargeyska Sanca Press Xasan Fanax oo ku sugan Magaaladda Nairobi ayaa u sheegay Hiiraan Online in ku dhowaad 100 ruux oo qeybahaasi ka tirsan loo diyaariyay dal-ku-galkii ay ku imaan lahaayeen Kenya, isla markaana badankood la soo qaadayo todobaadkan, inkastoo aaney IGAD si rasmi ah daboolka uga qaadin arinta ka soo qeybgalka bulshada Somaliland, balse waxaa la ogsoon yahay in uu weli maamulka Madaxweyne Daahir Riyaale Kaahin ee dhowaantan la doortay ay diidan yihiin ka qeybgalka shirkaasi, iyagoo taasina ku sababeeyay in shirku uu yahay mid aan iyaga quseynin. Wararku waxay intaasi ku darayaan in martiqaadka loo fidiyay qabaa'ilka Somaliland iyo qeybaha bulshada ee deegaankaasi ay ka dambeysay culeys aad u xoog badan oo guddiga farsamadda ee IGAD lagu saaray in bulshada reer Samililand ay ka soo qeybgalaan shirka, maadama ay Soomaalidu wax ku qeybsaneyso qaab qabiil, islamarkaana ay xaq u leeyihiin in ay kaalintooda ka qaataan dhismaha dowladda cusub, kadibna ay dowladdaasi wada xaajood la furto maamulka haatan, haddii uu ku sii adkeysto diidmadiisa, iyadoo aan marna laga boodin mabaadii'da saldhiga u ahaa qabashada shirkan oo ay ku jirtay in la dhowro midnimadda Soomaaliya, taasoo ay isku raaceen beesha caalamka oo ay ku jiraan qabanqaabiyayaasha shirka. Beelo aan ka qeybgelin doorashadii ka dhacday Somaliland iyo kuwo u doortay Mr. Riyaale inuu u janjeero dhinaca midnimadda marka lala barbardhigo musharixii la tartamayay ee xisbiga Kulmiye ayay wararku sheegayaan in ay iska soo xaadirin doonaan madasha shirka oo maalmaha soo socda fooda gelin doona wejigii seddexaad ee awood qeybsiga, iyagoo sidoo kalena la sheegayo in ay musharixiin ka socotaahi ka qeybgeli doonaan tartanka madaxweynenimada oo la saadaalinayo haddii ay sidaasi wax u dhacaan in ay guul weyn ka gaari doonaan marka la fiiriyo isu tanaasul la'aanta iyo khilaafka xooggan ee u dhaxeeya siyaasiyiinta ka soo jeeda koonfurta dalka Soomaaliya. By: Salaad Iidow Xasan (Xiis) Hiiraan Online saladxiis@yahoo.com Mogadishu, Somalia

Why do I sense a panic from Somalilandlanders whenever there is a prospect of Somali government? What the article says is there should be a dialogue, no invasion and isn’t that what you always insisted on, you will only talk with a Somali government when it is in place? !!!!

A.J, Diin-Soo (Diinsoor) is a town in the south

Guraad this may be helpful. It is an article about the somali Nutural Resources and Oil before the civil war (1991) Macdanta iyo Saliidda Macdanta Soomaaliya waxaa ku jira macdan farabadan oo aan laga faaiidaysan. Sababtoo ah macdantaas waxay u baahantahay maaliyan ama lacag fara badan iyo qalab casri ah iyo weliba dad aqoon iyo xirfad u leh macdanta. Haddii aan wax ka sheegno qaybaha macdanta iyo meelaha ay ku jiraan, waa kuwan hoo ku qoran: Berbera: Meel u jirta 15 km waxaa ku kaydsan Jibsam[Gypsum]. Waxaa kale oo Berbera agteeda laga helaa shamiitada. Buur-hakaba: Waxaa lagu qiyaasay [1968] in ay ku jirto 120 million tons[tan] oo macdan ah, waxaana kamida Yuraaniyam iyo Thorium. Ceel-buur: waxaa ku kaydsan macdanta loo yaqaan Sepiolite. Diin-soo: waxaa ku kaydsan qiyaastii 50 million tons oo ah bir-dahaba ama[iro-ore]. Majayahan: oo u dhow Boosaaso waxaa ku kaysdan macdanaha kala ah Tiin, Gypsum,iyo Dahab. Dhalan: oo u dhow Ceelaayo waxaa laga heli karaa macdanta loo yaqaan Tiin. Xeebta Jasiira iyo Bacaadka Shalambood: Waxaa ku kaysdan Dahab. Xaafuun iyo Hurdiye: Waxaa laga helaa Cusbada cuntada [salt]. Waxaa kale oo la sheegay in Soomaaliya ay ku jiraan gaaska dabiiciga ah iyo saliid [iol]. Waxaana laga yaabaa in ay jiraan macdano farabadan oo ku kaydsan Soomaaliya welina aan ladaahfurin. Dhammaan macdanadaas aan kor ku soo xusnay xaqiiqa ahaan inta xaddiga ah ee waddanka ku kaysan lama hubo, waana qiyaaso iyo mala awaal lasameeyey. Tirooyinka xusani ma aha kuwo lagu helay cilmibaaris qoto dheer. Waxaana akhristayaasha ka codsaneynaa in haddii ay hayaan wax macluumaada oo arintaas ku saabsan ay noogu soo sheegaan emailka hoos ku qoran. Saliidda (oil) Soomaaliya waxaa ku jira Saliid farabadan oo aan weli siweyn looga faa'iideysan. Haddii aan wax kaxusno goobaha hadda lagu hubo saliidda waxaa kamidda: Saylac (Awdal) Lascaanood agteeda (Sanag) Meelahaas oo ay ahayd meelihii uu ku socdey baadhistu intii xukuumada la ridin. Laakiin badanka somaliya lama wada baadhin. afgooye (gaaska dabiiciga ah). xadigiisuna aad u badan yahay. Waxaan mahad ballaaran u jeedineynaa injineer Ibrahim oo caawinaad nagasiiyey arimaha muhiimka ah ee laxiriira saliidda Soomaaliya dhex jiifta. Hadii aad u baahatid macluumaad dheeraad ah oo kusaabsan macdanaha Soomaaliya, ka akhri waraysigii SomaliTalk la yeesheen Dr. Cusmaan Salaad Xirsi oo markaas (sept 2000) booqaneyey London, Ontario, canada. kor macdanta wershedaha Bogga Bilicda

So, Gediid the reason to breakaway from the rest of Somalia has nothing to do with the massacre and killings commited by Mohamed Siad and his people as has been advertised by your leaders and the most Somalilanders i met with? Alas tell me why do you want to have own country? And if the reason was as advertised and you can now forgive people from Sool and Sanaag why not forgive and forget about the rest? And please note that I am not any way condoning what Dictator Siad did, but far from it i shun and shame his regime for the crimes commited against humanity.

Well peopel help me here!!!!!!!!! I am confused!!!!!! Why somaliland should claim SOOL & SANAAG as their terrotories when in the first place they (Sool & Sanaag people) were not part of the reason why Somaliland should seccede from the rest of somalia: ''Somaliland people have been targeted by the former regime and the rest of somalia people hence we will not have anything to do with them''. In other words people in Sool and Sanaag are from same clan as the former president which they claim him and his people have targeted them and masscred them. SALAADU XAGEE BAY ISKA QABSANLA'DAHAY? May be a somalilander can come out from shadow and explain these for us and also tell us in Plain English why should we accept Somaliland as a separate country with Sool and sanaag included? And PLZ reply to me in a civilized manner without a personal attacks. Thank you

Isn't she so sweet? Read on: Sabti, 28.06.2003 - 13:00 Wakhtiga London Asli Xassan Cabaade oo ah joogta medasha shirka Soomaalida ee Mbagathi Cabdir***** Catoosh - BBCSomali.com Catoosh Asli Xassan Cabaade oo horay uga ka tirsanaan jirtay Ciidankii Cirka ee Soomaliyeed ayaa waxa ay ahayd gabadhii ugu horaysay ee Soomaliyeed ee Diyaarada duuliso. Asli Hada waxa ay degan tahay Magaalada Dalas ee Dalka Maraykanka. Asli Xassan Cabaade oo BBC-da u warantay ayaa waxay sheegtay in ay horay uga qayb gashay shirkii lagu qabtay dalka Jabuuti Hadana ay Dalkan Kenya u timid in ay ka qayb gasho shirka hada ka socda magaalada Nairobi mar ay ka hadlaysay sababta ay mar walba ugu soo noqnoqoto shirarka soomalidana. Asli waxa ay sheegtay in inkastoo ay dalka Maraykanka degan tahay hadana uu wax ka maqan yahay oo aysan u dhalan dalkaasi Maraykanka. Waxay Kaloo ay sheegtay in ay hada u ololaynayso sidii loo soo celin lahaa calankii soomaliya. Waraysi dheer oo ay BBC-du la yeelatay ayaa waxay ku sharaxday sababta ay mar walba calanka Soomaliya ugu dhex wadato shirarka Soomalida iyo waliba rajada ay is leedahay waa ay ka soo bixi karaan shirarkan iyaga ah. Asli Xassan Asli waxay ku jawaabtay in ay aysan weli ka quusanaynin rajada, shirkii hore ee Jabuutina uu ahaa mid si wanaagsan u dhacay, waxyaabo badanna uu soo celiyay oo ay ka mid tahay dowlada ku meel gaar ah ee lagu soo dhisay. Waxaa kaloo ay Asli u sheegtey BBCda in ay haddana diyaar u tahay, in ay dadka dhamaan isu soo jiido, hadday ahaayn lahaayeen hogaamiye kooxeedyada iyo dadka kaleba. Iyadoo intaasina ku dartay in loo baahan yahay in la isu tanaasulo oo la midoobo oo waliba la iska ilaawo wixii dhacay. Waxaan doonayaa in sharraftii Soomaaliyeed in ay dib u soo noqoto Asli Xassan Cabaade Asli Mar wax laga weydiiyay Kaalinta ay shirkan Soomalida ku yeelan karto waxa ay ku jawaabtay, in aysan wax jago ah ka doonaynin shirkan, oo aysan u imanin, oo ay doonayso uun in sharaftii Soomaliya ay dib u soo noqoto, oo ay filayso in rajo fiican ay soo baxdo sidii markii ay timidba ay dad badan oo Soomali ah ay u sheegeen. Asli Xassan Cabaade mar ay ka waramaysay reerkeeda waxa ay sheegtay in leedahay nin iyo afar caruur ah; sadax wiil iyo gabar curad u ah oo sideed iyo tobon jir ah. Asli oo ninkeeda uu Maraykan yahay, ayaa waxa ay sheegtay in gabadheeda weyn ee curada ah ay mar walba u sheegto in ay Soomaliya gayso oo ay jeceshay in ay Jaamacada Moqdisho ka dhigato. Caruurteedana ay niyada ku hayaan in Soomaliya ay yimaadaan. Asli waxay xustay in nolol walba oo ay Maraykanka ku haysato ay haddana dalkeedii tabayso. Mar Asli la weydiiyay maadaama ay wada joogaan nin shisheeye ah sida bal uu u arko howshan ay ku dhex jirto? Asli waxay ku jawaabtay in saygeedu uu si wanaagsan u arko, uuna ku baraarujiyo mar walba howshan iyada ah Soomaliyana ilaa sideed jeer uu tagay, iyadoo dhoola cadeynaysa asli ayaa waxay tiri, "wuuna soo arkay sharaftii uu lahaa dalkeenii Soomaliya, isagaana ayaan mar walba ii soo fasaxa safaradan." Waxayna intaasi raacisay, in mar walba ay caruurteeda soo wacaan oo ay weydiiyaan arimaha shirkan hadda socda. Waxayna ku soo gabagabeysay in reerkeeda ay rajaynayso in ay mar dhow u sheegto jawaab farxad leh.

What surprises most from her interview is that she implies if unpeaceful atmosphere in the rest of somalia is beneficiery for desperately looked independence. Bu did she forget that Puntland and other parts in somalia which are larger than her somaliland is also peaceful and prosperous. until somaliland and their people stop those kind of arrogance and be thankful to Allah for what they have got they will never end up indenpendent.

Maasha allah...that was enlightening input thanks sister for posting such a nice words for our mums..who else deserves the respect and help than one who endured with us in the most volatile times in our lives. Illaahow unaxariiso waaridkeen. Ameen

is that me?

Here are other links about same subject with Raaghe Omaar talking about his aspirations and inspiring somali community in leicester http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/voices/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/realmedia/2003/06/voices_rageh_omaar.ram

Alla maxeynu ilbaxney.......Oral sex AAAAA...yaq I once told by an old somali man that he had More than four wives and had never seen their private genitals becouse he said he never wanted to expose dirty to his eyes..now we talk about oral sex........i would like to put to him and see what he makes.. may be he would go crazy or what i dont know

I too wish the people of puntland peace and prosperity. This is what we need for our country, leaders who talk and talk as pullets are not the way and that is what we can call leaders. I pray same thing to happen for the people far in the south specially Mogadishu our beautiful capital we lost to the warlords and gangsters, Ilaahoow na walaale oo na tus qiimaha nabada , Amiin P.S ilike the beautiful palace it really look nice....I did not know our people can build like that..

Is Somalia a Model? The conventional wisdom during periods of transition – or revolution if the term is appropriate, as may well be – is that the most important priority is to establish order. Disorder, on this understanding, is pretty close to the natural condition of man, especially in times of stress and uncertainty. So U.S. military people – subject to possible problems from "pockets of resistance," a marvelous military euphemism meaning, as nearly as I can figure it out, guys with guns who want to kill you – are to be the establishers and keepers of order, through force exercised as a de facto, if not necessarily de jure just yet, central government. While Gen. Garner would no doubt sincerely prefer to have help from some kind of Iraqi constabulary in the process, the important thing is to be prepared and systematic about applying force to stave off disorder. Everybody knows that without an entity prepared to use force – preferably one with the cachet of being designated a state, government or legitimate designee thereof – you would have anarchy, and anarchy inevitably means chaos, disorder and a surfeit of suffering. So somebody has to have power and a willingness to exercise it. Or is it possible, as the French philosopher Proudhon put it, that "Liberty is the mother, not the daughter, of order"? Is liberty only possible if order is first established by force, or does order arise best from an atmosphere of liberty, from free people developing their own interpersonal agreements, arrangements and accommodations to stave off disorder? Is it even possible to think this way when discussing a traditional society with an overlay of modernism brought on through occupation or influence that has involved a highly centralized structure? It might seem unlikely to look to a country like Somalia – yes, that Somalia, of Black Hawk Down notoriety, an example of failed nation-building, where modern ideas were unfortunately not applied properly leading to a reversion to tribalism – for an answer. Yet, I'm about to suggest, such a glance might prove instructive. THE STATELESS NATION In the April 2003 issue of Liberty magazine is a fascinating article by one Michael van Notten, a Dutch lawyer who married into the Samaron tribe of northwest Somalia and lived with them until his death last summer. Spencer MacCallum, a long-time advocate for the idea of building free societies from the community level up, helped him with the essay and further amplified it after Mr. van Notten's death. "The Somali nation abolished its central government ten years ago and became a stateless nation," the article begins. "During that time, the fears expressed by many international observers that Somalia would fall into chaos have not only not been realized, but many Somalis are finding statelessness an agreeable condition. Somalia is more peaceful, and the people are becoming more prosperous. Boosaaso, located at the tip of the Horn on the Gulf of Aden, is a case in point. When Somalia had a central government, Boosaaso was a small village. Into its port a few small fishing boats came each day to offload fish. Occasionally, a cargo vessel came in as well. Officials of the Republic crawled over these boats collecting taxes and demanding payment for every kind of service, real or imagined. "With the demise of the Republic, control passed to the local community and the port began to be managed on a commercial basis. A lively import/export trade developed and soon reached an estimated value of U.S. $15 million per year. Private enterprise provided essential public services such as trash collection and telecommunications. In eight years, the population grew from 5,000 to 150,000. Parents and teachers put up schools for their children and even built a university. In the absence of a government-run court system, the heads of extended families of contentious parties settled disputes on the basis of customary law. "While Boosaaso is a dramatic example, its experience is more the rule than the exception throughout Somalia. Somalis are thriving and prospering without a central government. Exports in 1998 were estimated to be five times greater than they had been under the Republic." That's not what you expect to hear about Somalia, which seems to have disappeared from the radar screens of the world's international observers (with the exception of an occasional report of a terrorist training camp out in the hinterlands) about 1995. But van Notten makes a persuasive case that on balance things are better for the actual people who live in Somalia than back in the days when the country's leaders tried to sustain a central government. And he does a pretty good job of explaining why this should be so. TRADITIONAL OR CUSTOMARY LAW Most westerners, especially those with political (if not necessarily ethnic) roots in England, are justifiably proud of what has come to be called the Common Law, a set of principles for handling disputes and outbreaks of crime or violence that is arguably the basis of the philosophy of law practiced in England, the United States and some Western European countries. What seems to be the case is that similar more-or-less informal but generally agreed to customs, often quite culture-specific (and so not recognized as such by outsiders or visitors) have grown in other countries to handle the disputes, disagreements and pockets of resistance that seem to develop wherever people are human. In Somalia, according to van Notten, "they have only returned to their traditional, pre-colonial system of clan government. A clan is a kin-based association of a large number of extended families." In Somalia, a country of about 15 million, colonial powers began occupying the territory shortly after the opening of the Suez Canal in 1869, withdrawing in about 1960, when Italian and British Somalilands were combined into the Republic of Somalia. "Thirty years later, in 1991, that government collapsed and was dismantled. Each of the 60 Somali clans within the former territory of the Republic reaffirmed its sovereignty, and clan leaders undertook responsibility for maintaining law and order. Today private individuals assure order by participating in what amounts to a free market for security services." Returning to localized clan government was not swift, easy or without problems. As in the former Soviet Union there was a period of banditry. The United Nations intervened to try to re-establish a central government, one of several efforts by the "international community" to provide in Somalia the kind of centralized state structure most westerners associate with civilized governance. There were Muslim fundamentalists who tried to establish a theocracy. There were problems establishing freeports that could work with clan elders in the interior to establish mutually agreeable ways to run export markets. According to van Notten, Somali clan law differs from western legal systems in some important ways: "Criminals are not imprisoned but only made to compensate their victims. "Crimes against society do not exist, which obviates the need for public prosecutors. "Fines must be paid to the victim or to his family, not to the court or clan. "Everyone must be insured against any and all liabilities he or she might incur under the law. "Judges are appointed by the litigants, not by the clan." Different clans may apply these principles with different local wrinkles, but the clans follow the same general principles well enough that decisions are usually respected by other clans. Thus law and order (or at least a semblance) is accomplished without prisons, without a central government, and without taxation. The system, like any legal system, is not without shortcomings, including inadequate protection of the rights of women. But "in rural Somalia, which comprises probably 90% of the country, the customary law continues to operate," according to van Notten and MacCallum. The writers compare the system to the period of Judges in Israeli history, before the establishment of a monarchy, a system the British author Robert Southy dubbed a "kritarchy" about a century ago. Hungarian-born sociologist Raphael Patai, in his recently reissued 1974 book, "The Arab Mind," describes a similar system, with its own local or traditional wrinkles, of clan-based or village-based dispute resolution system in most Arab countries. The problem, especially as the world becomes more globalized and larger cities develop, is how to apply clan-based customs to cities where people from many different traditions may live. DANGERS OF CENTRALIZATION Michael van Notten and Spencer MacCallum contend that democracy as a system of governance is ill-suited to a clan society like Somalia. "Democracy presupposes independent political parties and an electorate willing to debate issues and vote accordingly. In a society comprised of close-knit kinship, ethnic, or religious divisions whose members would find it unthinkable to vote otherwise than by group affiliation, the group with the largest number ends up controlling the truly awesome powers of government. Its own ethic then dictates that it direct those powers to the benefit of its own members. In self-defense, other groups must then vie with one another to capture the power by coup or revolution or else attempt to secede. The turmoil in Somalia following the demise of the central government consisted of groups attempting to position themselves to control the government they assumed would soon be re-established. In this case the mere expectation of a centralized power structure was sufficient cause for conflict. The United Nations interventions aggravated the situation by keeping alive that expectation. The conflict has only abated as the probability of a central government being established has receded." LESSONS FOR IRAQ? Could anything be learned from Somalia that might apply to Iraq? One would have to be careful to respect and understand local traditions and dispute resolution methods, but at least the lesson that a strong central government structure quickly becomes a prize whose power is almost inevitably used to favor one's own clan and to disfavor others is worth considering. Saddam's regime, of mostly Sunni Muslims, with most positions of real power held by people in several key families in the town of Tikrit, can be viewed as an example of a near-worst-case scenario of one kinship-based faction seizing total power and exercising it ruthlessly. In an interesting recent article on the History News Network Website out of George Mason University Eric Davis, Director of the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Rutgers University, who is about to publish a new book on modern Iraq, argues that "Iraq Might Be a Better Candidate for Democracy than You Think." In my view, his argument amounts to the contention that based on recent history that could well re-echo now, Iraq has enough manifestations of independence that it might be able to tolerate a democracy, or to ameliorate some of the aspects of democracy that could get ugly if it worked out to be "one man, one vote, one time." Davis argues that the country had a relatively flourishing civil society beginning in the 1920s and on through the period of the monarchy, into the 1950s. There were "a highly respected legal profession, a vibrant press, political parties, artist ateliers, writers associations, labor unions, and an extensive coffeehouse culture. This nascent civil society expanded greatly after the end of World War II." Abdal-Karim Qasim, who led the coup that toppled the monarchy in 1958, tried to establish "a federated entity, much along the lines of the European Union," and ruled as a secular leader. But he was executed by the first Ba'athist regime in 1963. Eventually the Ba'athists established a unitary state that became increasingly despotic and cruel, and erased civil society. I have no more right than anybody else to tell the Iraqis how to run their country. But they could do worse than to strive for a country with something resembling a federal system – a weak central government that leaves most day-to-day decisions to localities, or even a system without much in the way of a discernible central state – so long as there are ways of handling disagreements that stretch beyond strictly local boundaries, perhaps reciprocal agreements that one locality will respect the judicial decisions of other localities. Can you imagine the United Nations, the United States or the "international community" viewing such a system as other than "chaos" and "dog-eat-dog" and very much in need of a biggest dog to step on the unruly? While Iraqis might benefit from a close study of Somalia (allowing for large differences in the two societies) I very much fear what will be set up will be the kind of powerful centralized structure likely to lead to conflict and, eventually, to a relatively despotic kind of rule – perhaps with more persuasive democratic "cover" than Saddam could muster, and almost certainly not as cruel as Saddam at first – but, especially with oil as a single most important resource, something that resembles a kleptocracy more than a kritarchy. – Alan Bock