Dreamer: I agree that we should be proud of the women who have managed to run their families smoothly as a single parent, given the fact that most of them are not educated or equipped with skills to survive in the west. And it wasn't my implication to say that they opted for such a life rather the misunderstanding and lack of cooperation between her husband and herself, mostly led to the separation as we see it today.. But does that give the father a reason to move from the same city or completely jack himself out of his children's lives? Not being with the mother of his children doesn't mean he shouldn't play a role in his children's lives. That is wat I have been observing sis (My assumption is u r a sis.. if u a bro no offense intended). They automatically aloof themselves of anything including their children that connects them to their exs.

Haddad: He was not expected to change diapers, because his role in the family didn't require it, as each one in the family had unique responsibilities. That doesn't mean he didn't provide help when there was a need for help, like when no one was there to help and the wife was sick or pregnant. Im assuming you come from a family like mine, coz seriously my dad is a father I am yet to see in a Somali society. Im not just saying that coz he is my father but his devotion and dedication of his time and efforts to his children is a rarely amenity among somalis. Thre are some fathers, and I say some, who are active participants in their families' matters, but the painful truth still remains that the majority are not. Tell me the father you have seen who helps his wife, when she is sick or pregnant? I went to somalia walaalkiis and wat I saw there was worst than wat I saw in the West.. Thank you very much. Imagine this. It was ramadan and the wife of Saciid is 8 months pregnant. She doesn't fast of course, but her husband does. She makes Iftar (afur) for him and cooks the Suhur for him. Sacid wakes his wife up when the time for Suhur comes so that she would warm it for him and bring it to him.. I have seen this first hand walalo, so don't try to convince me that Somali men do help their wives. Anything that has to do with running the house chores by any man is considered a taboo or ceeb. Tell me now how do u expect that woman who used to tolerate all of that because she was dependent on her husband's earnings, as well as living upto the expectations of the society of a wife feels when she is given a chance to live her life the way she feels is fair coz she is in a society where divorce is acceptable.And she is liberated of the dependency on her husband's income to survive. Maybe this applies to a few families you have observed firsthand, but I have observed otherwise. Most families had a father who was present most of the time, only few families had a traveling father. A father did discipline his children. Your personal observation cannot even apply to 5% of Somali husbands. The presence of a father in the house doesn't make any difference if he isn't active walaalkiis. Yes most families do have fathers living with them, yet he rarely partakes any role in his family. He is only present to give orders and expect his wife and his children to obey them. Am sure if u looked a bit harder and more objectively than u would really see where I am coming from. I am not a foreigner out to criticize ur community walaalkiis.. am as much a Somali as u r... and this is an issue that is alarmingly increasing by the day, and needs to be given more serious and thorough examination or else Somalis as we know them shall vanish.

Jamal: Walaalkiis, I don’t think a Muslim can ever dare to alleviate himself or herself from the laws put forth by Islam. And make up an identity that is adjacent to the one Allah has assigned. Most of the characteristics of the Somali culture or behaves as we know them have been derived from Islamic views (although they have been altered to suit the wants and needs of the society in general). Yes Islam gave us the power to consent to things we want and don’t want, but it has also assigned us a code thru which a Muslim lives his life…. If we adopt this theory of urs don’t u think we will distant ourselves from the path to Heaven? What separates us from the Kufars u see around u, is our behaviors and how we carry ourselves. To some it may seem dictatorship but we all know better. It’s our identity. You can ofcourse say no to many of the things that conflict your religion, or even your conscious. If u really look closely u will c that, there are valid reasons as to why we are told to behave as such. U can certainly develop your own identity but it has to be in accordance with Islam. Nonetheless, I really liked ur arguments. Thnx

^^^ seems to me u r venting sis...coz certainly there is nothing we can do about the confused sista. So do u feel better now? If not.. I think Prozac would work

Hey.....I c my homeboy.... Zaki... I thought I heard he became.. Wadaad.... wat is he doing taking pictures??? :rolleyes:

In almost every corner of the cyber world it has become an expected fact to be faced with topics of the same nature, “Why is divorce rate increasing in Somali society?†So I have done a bit of observation and research so this is what I came up with as possible reasons… Somali Women’s Role: Before the detrimental civil war Somali women used to be stay at home wife and mother (with the exception of few of course but the majority counts yes ). Her submission to her husband and her house came to her naturally. She never questioned her husband’s role in the house coz it was widely believed that, “guriga naagta ayaa heystaâ€. Now she came to a world where the men and women play exactly the same role and their division of labor is of equal magnitude. The cultural shock is and was to most of Somalis destructive. The reason being, no one actually took the time to explain to the Somali women why their roles were as such. Why she was told to be submissive to her husband? No one ever explained to her, the reasons behind every behavior. Was it cultural was it Islamic? Was it for her protection or was it for oppression? Coming to the west put a burden she was not trained to coop with. She found herself stranded in a land where everything she was thought is defied. And the absence of solid conception of Islam and the Somali culture, added to the unlimited problems faced in our community. Somali Men’s Role: Prior to the war, Somali men’s role in the family was just to provide their daily bread. He was not expected to change diapers or give his wife any moral supports. After day’s work he ate his lunch, took a nap and headed for the cafeteria to play cards or talk politics. His house was managed and run by his wife. His attention was rarely needed in disciplining his children. Most it took for the child to be disciplined was, “Haye aabahaa ayaa laguu sheegaayaaâ€. That did it. But in the west, the cultural shock he was faced with made him to act and address it completely in an opposite manner to his wife. He refused to adapt or even slightly change to the alien environment so as to smoothen his transitional period. His conception of the west is just, “Waxey rabaan in ay na gaaleeyaanâ€. As a result he clinches to the habits and ways he lived back in Somalia. His expectations of his wife don’t change with the environment rather they escalate. Somali Communities’ Role: It took the whole village to bring a child up. That has been our ever valued, upheld tradition. The neighbors and the strangers passing through the neighborhood took an active role in disciplining the child. This tradition has vanished from the minds of the Somali community mainly because, the children have become westernized. They would call the police and the well wisher ends up in jail. So the role of the strangers or the neighbors has therefore been eliminated, thus leaving all the disciplining to the mother & father. Problems: 1. Absence of communication 2. Men are not willing to change to play a better role in the running of their homes and shaping the future of their children. 3. Women have found a way to live their lives without husbands ( Thanks to welfare system) 4. Misinterpretation of independence by women, and lack of activity by men Possible Solution: I think from my point of view we need centers called, “Transition to the western world†that prepares families for the cultural shock as well as equips them with skills required to survive the hardships while still retaining the values they inherited from the ancestors. I think there should be workshops designed specifically for women, another for just men and one in which they r joint. I believe the disruption we now see in the Somali homes will be minimized. What do you guys think? You think initiation of such an organization would do good?

^^If u date outside the principles of Islam then yes, but not when u follow the guidelines set forth.. Moth: I think its a way of not giving yourself fully the person, we humans tend to take people we know love us for granted.. so its just another of keeping him or her on her toes.. making sure that they treat u right. That is my perception of the whole situation.

Fariid: Am the same walaalkiis... wat I write is wat I am.. I don't like impersonating someone who I am not. Thus my nick and name are the same. And pretty much those who know me in person know that its me when they see my writing... Tuujiye Aiga meel kasto rabsho lee maa la taagantahay widaayoow.. see camalne.. umadii oo dhan waa kaa qeeliyeen.. hadane... magac inii bixisid maa kuu dambeysay.......maskiin.. dadka waa kugu kacaayaan walaahi.. kabteey aawi aa dhihi doontaa maka joogtidoo

Yaa Ukhti abaayo macaan dumarka badankood waa ogyihiin xaqa uu ninkooda ku lee yahay ee ayaga ayaa iska indho tira oo u arka jaahilnimo ama gumeysi hadii ay racaan ama ay raaliyo u noqdaan ragooda... Laakiinse raga soomaliyeed ma oga xaqa ay xaaskooda ku lee dahay.. sidaas darteed maadaama aad mowduucaan soo saartay.. bal ragana u sheeg xaqa lagu lee yahay... Waa mahadsantahay.

Amethy: If u like discussing ur private parts and wat comes out of it among guys.. I don't sista... and haya does come into the picture.. coz its Xishood... FYI I could careless if u replied or didn't.

All I wanted to say has been said by Rayaan Jazaka Allah.. sista... Am sure if we look at ourselves before we judge others we won't be too quick to sentence them for we have our sins as well..

Amethyst: First of all... resorting to Islam is not the last but the first coz it is a code of life and for a Muslim which am assuming you are should seek guidance and justice from it than a bunch of females who are battling jealousy coz their husbands abandoned them for a better catch. I am sorry but that is my assumption of feminists. The reason being most of them are either divorces or dumpees (dat is wat I call ppl who have been dumped). I am yet to see a happily married sister joining that team. Secondly relationship problems are not the only problems women face.. we have hormonal inbalances, disease specific for women, menstrual cycles... etc... so yes we do demand to have a space of our own. And these problems are not ones men should be part of. Thirdly the only Muslim country I have seen where I could say women are deprived of their rights is Pakistan. A Muslim woman is one who is obedient and submissive to her husband and his wishes. And if his wish is for his wife to stay at home and cover herself then it shouldn't be interpreted as domination o oppression rather its protection. And I brought the hadith because I have started living my life according to the Sunnah of our Holy Prophet. And everything a Muslim needs to do or believe is through the Quran and the Sunnah.

OK this is my two cents.. Married Lets analyze.. Suppose u live in western world where u work and u have children. Your wife have been waiting for u at home... u left 6 in the morning and u r back 6 in the afternoon, dont rool ur eyes or jump on justifications but that is inclusive of the time traffic jams consume. Now when u got home u eat ur mail....and instead of chitchatting with ur woman or children.. u get online and start chatting with strangers.. U miss the important milestones of ur children and wife because u were busy responding to ridiculous topics written by bachelors or bachelorettes( excuse the misspellings) who have nothing to do with their free time.. That is the situations that occur and ofcourse like everything else...vice versa.. a woman who spends time on the net than with her husband... Now in some remote cases, the spouses can enjoy the net as well as be part of their family's lives..... if u can be that spouse than surely go ahead... but if u can't than... I would agree with my brothers... u r married forget about forums and chats.. do use the computer and the net but for academics and research purposes only...

^^^ Could do with lesser aggression Amethyst: I hope I spelt your nick right... let me enlighten u a bit... Haya plays a huge role in the lives of Muslims because it is a very important part of our eeman (faith/belief). If we do not have any form of haya in us then it is most likely that our eeman is very weak. For as it states in the following hadith: Narrated by Abu Huraira (ra): The Prophet said, "Faith (Belief) consists of more than sixty branches (i.e. parts). And Haya (This term "Haya" covers a large number of concepts which are to be taken together; amongst them are self respect, modesty, bashfulness, and scruple, etc.) is a part of faith." (Bukhari) Sista as a Muslim.. u should have haya, and haya means... shyness in arabic. So we can't be abhoring the cultures and values of the feminists. Wat the western feminists are striving for .. is something that we take for granted coz we have been given as natural rights in our Quran. Therefore we should be shy. Women issues should remain within the females. And that is not retrogression rather it brings us respect and appreciation. I hope u now understand why we need our own forum.

^^^ Couldn't agree more walaashiis... Engagement if the meher occured then u r married... so stop sneaking around and take your bride home.. will ya? Adnan: Am glad u r on the same plateform as I am.. Its time they have restricted this area.. but teh real question remains.. will the guys refrain from it? I mean the only way to restrict it is by sorting of ppl by gender.. and since that can be changed at will my guess is.. guys will be taking on feminine nicks to get access... So it still remains...unsolved.. any ideas??

Congrats baby cuz.........Hope to see u and my lil niecey soon...

Pink: I broke up with the last one coz he lied to me. And I can't stand lies... no matter how small or big. Adnaan/Ducaqabe?Mafia: I think u guys are taking things out of proportion. It is allowed in Islam for two people to talk to each other. When they meet a third party or in a public place.. but having s boyfriend( That is someone u r talking to about the future) is allowed in Islam. Ask any Sheikh. Ofcourse if u r courting this person in the gaal way.. now that is another thing.. but dating and boy friend/ girlfriend are just terms used to differentiate.. a person from ur friends, relatives, brothers or sisters... its a way to tell others that u r considering this person to be ur husband or wife. So don't linger on the words.. and they don't imply anything.. if a somali person tells me.. hey meet hibo this is my boyfriend.. the first thing that hits me is.. he is her husband to be... but when a gaal tells then.. its a whole different story... so u c it depends on who is saying it... a And wat is all the fuss anyways... somalis rarely had arranged marriages.. even in Baadiye women and men used to date...so cut the crab will ya... coming to gaal land.. stop being so paranoid...

LS: Thnx brotha.. for taking notice... but seriously.. we need our own private.. forum.. only women can access it... but then.. am thinking some guys would actually start registeration and click female instead of male.. to have a peep....wat is happening with our boys? :rolleyes:

Phan: U know wat... I swear when I clicked women section I wanted to post a topic about this.. and wala... there it is already... am serious... though.. why do our brothers degrade us like dat? One thing that really irritates me is to found guys crawling this area.. I mean common we have many problems which are private and would like to discuss it with the ladies alone... so maybe its time the admin... gave us our own grounds.. No offense guys!

I found this really interesting.. so here I am sharing... Somali History The origins of the Somalis and their time of entry into present-day Somalia has been debated, with Somalis claiming descent from Arabian families who settled on the coast 1,000 years ago, and historians tracing the origins to pre-15th century. By the 12th century, the ancestors of some of the clan familes were already established in their present territories, while others moved southward through the 19th century. The borders of Somalia were set at the end of the 19th century and a great number of Somalis were left out by the border placement, leaving them in eastern Ethiopia and northern Kenya. It is estimated that northern Somalis began converting to Islam around the 10th century. [edit] Clan System and Marriage There are approximately 6.5 million people in Somalia and the Somalis constitute 95% of the population of people living on the Horn of Africa. The Somali society is organized into clan families, which range from 100,000 to over one million in size. The six large clans are: ***** , Issaq, ****** , *** , Digil, and Rahanwayan. There are also a number of smaller clan groups. Each of the large clan families is divided into lineage units, typically ranging from 10,000 to 100,000 members. It is possible for Somalis to know how they are related simply by giving their name and clan membership. Since dating in practice does not exist in Somalia, arranged marriages are common. In the case of arranged marriages, brides are usually much younger than the grooms. Marriage to a cousin from the mothers side of the family (of a different lineage) is traditionally favored to strengthen family alliance, but this practice is not as common as earlier. Virginity is valued in women prior to marriage. In addition, divorce is legal in Somalia. Romantic marriages are getting more common and are the now the majority of marriages in Somalia. But even these choices are influenced by the partner's clan. [edit] Language Except for a few communities along the southern Somali coast where Swahili (a Bantu language) and Arabic dialects are spoken, Somali nationals (including persons of non-Somali origin) speak one of several Somali dialects. Somali belongs to a set of languages called lowland Eastern Cushitic spoken by peoples living in Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti, and Kenya. Eastern Cushitic is one section of the Cushitic language family, which in turn is part of the great Afro-Asiatic stock. Of the Somali dialects, the most widely used is Common Somali, a term applied to several subdialects, the speakers of which can understand each other easily. Common Somali is spoken in most of Somalia and in adjacent territories (Ethiopia, Kenya, and Djibouti), and is used by broadcasting stations in Somalia and in Somali-language broadcasts originating outside the country. Coastal Somali is spoken on the Banaadir Coast (from Cadale to south of Baraawe) and its immediate hinterland. Central Somali is spoken in the interriverine area, chiefly by members of the ********* clan-family. Speakers of Common and Coastal Somali can understand each other after a few weeks of close contact, speakers of Common and Central Somali only after a few months. Facility with language is highly valued in Somali society; the capability of a suitor, a warrior, or a political or religious leader is judged in part by his verbal adroitness. In such a society, oral poetry becomes an art, and one's ability to compose verse in one or more of its several forms enhances one's status. Speakers in political or religious assemblies and litigants in courts traditionally were expected to use poetry or poetic proverbs. Even everyday talk tended to have a terse, vivid, poetic style, characterized by carefully chosen words, condensed meaning, and alliteration. Until the establishment of the Somali Latin script in January 1973, there were two languages of government--English and Italian. In the prerevolutionary era, English became dominant in the school system and in government, which caused some conflict between elites from northern and southern Somalia. However, the overarching issue was the development of a socioeconomic stratum based on mastery of a foreign language. The relatively small proportion of Somalis (less than 10 percent) with a grasp of such a language--preferably English--had access to government positions and the few managerial or technical jobs in modern private enterprises. Such persons became increasingly isolated from their nonliterate Somali-speaking brethren, but because the secondary schools and most government posts were in urban areas the socioeconomic and linguistic distinction was in large part a rural-urban one. To some extent, it was also a north-south distinction because those educated in the Italian system and even in Italian universities found it increasingly difficult to reach senior government levels. Even before the 1969 revolution, Somalis had become aware of social stratification and the growing distance, based on language and literacy differences, between ordinary Somalis and those in government. The 1972 decision to designate an official Somali Latin script and require its use in government demolished the language barrier and an important obstacle to rapid literacy growth. In the years following the institution of the Somali Latin script, Somali officials were required to learn the orthography and attempts were made to inculcate mass literacy--in 1973 among urban and rural sedentary Somalis, and in 1974-75 among nomads. Although a few texts existed in the new script before 1973, in most cases new books were prepared presenting the government's perspective on Somali history and development. Somali scholars also succeeded in developing a vocabulary to deal with a range of subjects from mathematics and physics to administration and ideology. By the late 1970s, sufficient Somali materials were available to permit the language to be the medium of instruction at all school levels below the university. Arabic was taught to all students, beginning at the elementary level and continuing into the secondary phase. Because Italians dominated the senior faculty at the national university in the late 1970s, Italian remained in wide use. By the late 1980s, Somali was the language of instruction at the university as well. [edit] Religion Almost all Somalis are Sunni Muslims; Islam is the principal faith. Though traces of pre-Islamic traditional religion exist in Somalia, Islam is extremely important to the Somali sense of national identity. Many of the Somali social norms come from their religion. For example, men shake hands only with men, and women shake hands with women. Many Somali women cover their heads and bodies with a hijab when they are in public. In addition, Somalis abstain from pork, gambling, and alcohol, and receiving or paying any form of interest. Muslims generally congregate on Friday afternoons for a sermon and group prayer. Accordance with these prohibitions depends on each individuals level of orthodoxy. [edit] Miscellaneous Topics on Somali Culture Did you know that it is polite to leave a little bit of food on your plate when eating at a Somali house? This tells your Somali host that you have been given enough food. If you were to clean your plate that would indicate that you are still hungry. Most Somalis don't take this rule so seriously, but it is certainly not impolite to leave a few bites on your plate. Traditionally, the main meal of the day is eaten at lunchtime and Somali people usually begin their day with a flat bread called Anjeero, liver, toast, cereal or porridge made of millet or cornmeal. Lunch can be a mix of rice or noodles with meat and sauce. Later in the day a lighter meal is served which includes beans, muffo (patties made of oats or corn), or a salad with more Anjeero. Islam and poetry have been described as the twin pillars of Somali culture. Most Somalis are Sunni Muslims and Islam is vitally important to the Somali sense of national identity. Most Somalis don't belong to specific mosque or sect and can pray in any mosque they find. Celebrations come in the form of religious festivities, two of the most important being Eid al Adha and Eid al Fitr which marks the end of the fasting month. Families get dressed up to visit one another. If they can afford it, money is donated to the poor. Other holidays include June 26, which celebrates the north's Independence, and July 1, which celebrates the unification of the North and South. In a nomadic culture, where one's possessions are frequently moved, there is little reason for the plastic arts to be highly developed. Somalis embellish and decorate their woven and wooden milk jugs and their wooden headrests, and traditional dance is important, though mainly as a form of courtship among young people. Somalis believe strongly in independence, democracy, egalitarianism, and individualism. Saving face is very important to them, so indirectness and humour are often used in conversation. Somalis deeply value the family with the strength of family ties providing a safety net in times of need. Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/s/b/Culture_of_Somalia"

^^^^ I second dat.. except the aggressive part.. but I do cut my hair all the time... my sister nags me.. coz her hair never grows... Good credit: Wat in the world are u doing in here... gosh... Somali men no... limit... do u grow hair I wonder lol.. just teasing u bro... offense... Modest: Ever heard of Amla hair oil? Most probably u can find it in the Indian stores... warm it and put it in your hair.. leaving it for like an hr then wash it off ( It really stinks but trust me your hair will grow)... I never really grew my hair.. and I cut them like no tomorrow.. but magically they do grow real fast.. may nails as well... so in turn just tell me wat u do to yours to hold them in place... plzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think if all she wants is a man, coz I am assuming her ex husband and the father of her children is alive which means the kids already do have a father in their lives, and doesn't have problems with sharing him coz he will definitely need a child someday... then am sure She will manage.. But one thing I don't understand is if she loves him sincerely than wat is more joyful than having the child of the man u love?

Lakkad: Lioness is libax... the male lion is called " AAR" get it

Since Somaliland has shown tremendous progress and development as well as maintain peace and harmony for a decade now... I think its only fair that we show support. So for the first time I am carrying the flag folks.

Modest: I think it all boils down to how u dress and wat u wear... for example... if u have big a$$.. u can't wear low cut jeans.. so u opt with navel high jeans with low back pockets...it slims and give shape to ur behind... Pluz if u have no shape up in ur waist like there is no concave like shape.. u use shirts or jackets.. that slide out at the bottom. So sista.. don't starve urself... its not advisable to be so miserable.. its not wat the people think... its wat u make them think ... so sis.. choose ur clothes wisely.. am sure u will appreciate yourself more.. Good luck!