well he was no dought. But where is here now ?? Dead and six feet under and heading to hell.

well he was no dought. But where is here now ?? Dead and six feet under and heading to hell.

well he was no dought. But where is here now ?? Dead and six feet under and heading to hell.

I would suggest u simply just talking to me nxt time ok abayo

Ok seeing as though most if not all the nomads are understandably abit hesitant to pick 'one' particular Team to win the Champs League (except for the slightly dilusional Arsenal fans ) i will be the brave man in here and make my Prediction Right here and now before the Qt Finals are clear. Ac Milan Packed with a Ridiculously Talented midfield and an equally high quality attact (that has gelled so well) unlike Real Madrid, will win the Champs Leauge. And certainly some of the gr8 players will be deserving of it i.e. Rivaldo and Shevchenko. so com'on nomads i challange everyone to pick their choice and stick with it from now until through the final. L8t ppl

Thaks for the link Jazeera. Am gonna check it out Inshallah after posting this reply. what i have got from everyones replies, certainly Muraad's Yacquub and yours and even Thunders, is that definately Islam can be administered via a system similar to that seen in many of these western democracries. Certainly i dont think that they would be problems in adopting the various types of institutional departments that they have such as the heirachy of their court structure (obviously amended so that it reflects any Demands by they Quraan and Sunnah)into the structure of islamic governance. What both you and Yacquub touched on in slightly different ways i.e.'' Shuraa'' and its importance, as well as the understanding that the Quraan is the ultimate source of legislation i think is where the 'meat' of this might debate lye.

I found myself in this predicament situation, with no way out. What made me laugh hystrically was the fact as the bride was departuring she throwed her bouquet, and some married woman caught it. What a night it was. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- lol I suppose that one particular incident sum's the whole night up huh. A compilation of Ironies upon Ironies. But Trulley Sad to here, but this is steadily become the new trend.

Salam Calayakum Nomads Am sure that all of ur guys can rember watching the various news bulletins, current affair programme, special dispacthes programmes and so forth that spilled out after septmber the 11 and i suppose are still on-going now. What real got me was the sheer number of 'experts' on islam that were aired on Tv in both europe and USA speaking with such inaccuracies and in most cases open anger towards islam and the muslim world. Now the reason why i post this was because i found a very concise article that adressed this post 9-11 tendancies and went even further to explain just how so many historians have over the years produced so many books and papers so widly read and highly regarded, yet so inaccurate and demonising to Islam and its many different muslims. So i would recommend any of u nomads who are have a break in your busy day.....or are perhaps studying or are interested in politics to give it a read. The author himself Edward W Said is a a true expert in this field who speaks with great clarity and personal exprience. Well this particular article adress a certain example of what i meant by "The Over Capacity of 'Experts on Islam' following 9-11" and although quite lengthy, very worthwhile to read. http://www.harpers.org/online/impossible_histories/impossible_histories.php3?pg=1 hope u enjoy the read nomads Wa Calayakum Salam

Know the cat is really amongst the pigeons ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- US agents invited to search for weapons Ewen MacAskill, Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington and Richard Norton-Taylor Monday December 23, 2002 The Guardian Baghdad fought back in the highly charged propaganda battle with the US and Britain yesterday by inviting its arch-enemy, the CIA, to enter Iraq and track down the country's elusive weapons of mass destruction. The Iraqi offer of unhindered access to US intelligence agents came after intensive pressure from Washington that made war early in the new year appear almost inevitable. After four days of diplomatic pounding, Iraq hit back yesterday, accusing the Bush administration of rehashing old lies. "We have told the world we are not producing these kind of weapons, but it seems that the world is drugged, absent or in a weak position," President Saddam Hussein said. At a press conference in Baghdad yesterday, General Amir al-Sadi, scientific adviser to the president, issued a challenge to the US and British intelligence to offer up hard evidence that Iraq has any biological, chemical or nuclear weapons. "We do not even have any objections if the CIA sent somebody with the inspectors to show them the suspected sites," Gen Sadi said. This marks a major turnaround. Until yesterday, Iraq had objected to the possibility of US or other Western spies infiltrating the UN weapons teams. Baghdad said, rightly, that the inspections team that left Iraq in 1998 had been infiltrated by intelligence agents and, in the intervening four years, repeatedly cited this as a reason why it objected to the return of the UN inspectors. A CIA spokesman said yesterday that he did not want to comment on Baghdad's offer. Both the US and Britain claim, against Iraqi denials, that they have evidence that Iraq has continued to develop weapons of mass destruction. The UN chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix, said at the end of last week that if the US and Britain had such evidence, they should hand it over. US officials said at the weekend that they have been handing over intelligence and will provide more specific information to the inspectors over the next fortnight. The Foreign Office made a similar promise yesterday: "The weapons inspectors will get all the help they need to carry out their job in Iraq." But it emerged that British intelligence is reluctant to hand over everything it claims to have, insisting there is a danger that sources could be compromised. British government officials have already privately admitted that they do not have any "killer evidence" about weapons of mass destruction. If they had, they would have already passed it to the inspectors. Babil, the Iraqi government newspaper run by president Saddam's son, Uday, said in a front-page editorial yesterday: "Everybody knows that if they had concrete information, they would have put it on television all around the world before giving it to the inspection teams." Gen Sadi accused the US and Britain of rushing to judge Iraq's weapons programmes. He claimed that objections raised by the US secretary of state, Colin Powell, and the foreign secretary, Jack Straw, to Iraq's declaration on weapons of mass destruction, were a rehash of old information that had already been dealt with. But US officials said yesterday the accusation made by Washington last week that Iraq was in material breach of a UN resolution on disarmament had come from specific information it has obtained and not from the declaration. This new information, they said, was based on satellite pictures that showed construction at sites that had previously been bombed by US-led forces. They also claimed to have fresh information based on records of suspicious dual-use material - that which has both a civilian and military function - procured by Iraq as part of a UN deal to relieve the suffering of Iraqis from sanctions. British military chiefs are drawing up detailed plans in which thousands of Royal Marines would take part in a huge amphibious assault to seize the Iraqi port of Basra to control key strategic areas in south of the country. The Ministry of Defence confirmed yesterday that HMS Ocean, Britain's biggest helicopter and marine commando carrier, will be available to join a flotilla heading towards the Gulf next month after a major refit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It will be interesting to see how the 'international community' (USa and its subserviant partner UK) will try to down play this.

Salam Calayakum Hi wlcm to the site sister am sure u will enjoy it. Wa Calayakum Salam

Salam Calayakum Hi wlcm to the site sister am sure u will enjoy it. Wa Calayakum Salam

Salam Calayakum Hi wlcm to the site sister am sure u will enjoy it. Wa Calayakum Salam

Salam Calayakum Hi wlcm to the site sister am sure u will enjoy it. Wa Calayakum Salam

beside the history b/w Us their girls have the biggest 4head actually it could be a 5head..Damn! guys seriously go for the Eretrian girls:) lol that was particularly cruel

Its true ppl i urge all of u to Boycott it nomads. They have made the character with purpose to defame and disrespect our relgion and our noble prohpet.

lol very good am impressed. Hey do u rember how in kenya ppl would say (when someone requsted that u return to them somethin the gave u, money, clothing, goat ) "Ndugu hakuna Haraka. Nta ku rudishia saileh Issa ame ruudi " lol that use to kill me.

Inshallah if somalia ever returns to a reasonable peaceful stable state....i will chnace my lukc and return back to the bush. I would luv to build my old man a nice villa somewhere near Dusa Marreb and let him and my live out his life in peace n luxury.

Is war the natural state of somali's?

Perhaps Asian??

Am afriad am gonna have to opt out of ur short list and put forward my own candidate Brock Lesner 'The nxt Bigg Thing'...lol That man is a beast. And what the hell did he do to his shoulder to get them that bigg??? or has he just stuck a couple of boulders either side of his neck

lol excellent thats all i can say

Thx for contributing to the topic ppl much appreciated. I learned somethin new from both of your replys.

lol well it just goes to show that they chose a life a misery in this life and the hearafter. That christainty and its Clergy men have lost appeal to the wider masses in various countries around the world is because of such issues as this one u mention. It is soooooo un-practical, requires blind faith and so un-helpful in solving ppl's problems. Know that it is so openly known that their priest are vunreable to such actions (distusting) they again are going to change their religion (and its false hoods) to allow priest to marry (they have also allowed women to become priest, and GAYS aswell?????) so that they can prevent or reduce the risks of such things happening in the future and also keep up with 'Trends' lol especially as is the case with the latter

Preaching Democracy, Teaching Islam Turkish Group Promotes Tolerance in Germany, but Skepticism Remains By Peter Finn Washington Post Foreign Service Thursday, December 19, 2002; Page A22 HAMBURG -- An imam in a gray tunic suit and soft fez-like hat recited verses from the Koran in bursts of piercing song one recent night at the Boeckmann Street mosque here. A chattering crowd, waiting to break the Ramadan fast, hushed. And the world outside -- the nearby sex-shops, the furtive drug trade, the neon-lit evening commuters and the watchful police, stationed just around the corner -- seemed momentarily like a distant planet. In this mosque, tucked down a narrow street in the city center, a quiet revolution may be stirring. A tolerant European Islam, the wish of many of the continent's 11 million believers, is being showcased in such one-time bastions of fundamentalism as this Turkish place of worship. The mosque is preaching democracy. The prayers complete, Ramazan Ucar, the 36-year-old elected imam, stepped before an invited dinner audience that included the American consul, representatives from Christian churches and the local Jewish community and German politicians. Speaking in German from a prepared script, he nervously pleaded for a leap of faith. Not toward Islam, but toward the idea that his group is firmly committed to the democratic principles that define the German state and its secular constitution. "If there first appeared to be a contradiction between Islam and democracy, we believe [now] that only democratic society guarantees a rational life as a Muslim," said Ucar, a member of a Turkish group called Milli Gorus, which is on the German government's watch list of Islamic radical groups. The jury is still out on whether his sentiments represent the beginnings of Milli Gorus's transformation or whether he is tolerated by the group's older and secretive national leadership as a tactical retreat from the public advocacy of fundamentalism. But the possibility that the isolationist orthodoxy of one generation is being abandoned by the next is an intriguing development on a continent where the integration of Muslims remains a troubling issue. Ucar's words are all the more surprising coming from a man who said in an interview that he is routinely followed by the German security agents and whose mosque is featured in annual federal and state reports on extremism in Germany, alongside chapters on neo-Nazis and Marxist revolutionaries. Across the city, in the Hamburg state Office for the Protection of the Constitution, a domestic intelligence agency, officials contend that Ucar, by virtue of his membership in Milli Gorus, is a radical who supports a parallel, theocratic society for Germany's Muslim population. The organization he belongs to, officials say, is anti-constitutional, anti-Semitic and intent on imposing an austere Islamic order not only on Ucar's native Turkey but also within Germany and Europe. "They try to show that they are good democrats," said Manfred Murck, the office's deputy director. "But still we have suspicions, and a little more than suspicion, that they are doing this for tactical reasons. If they were too clear with their real plans, they could be [banned.]" There are doubters in the Turkish community as well. "I want them to be democrats," said Lale Akgun, a Social Democratic member of the German parliament who was born in Istanbul. "It's very important for our community, but I'm skeptical. . . . They tell us they are great democrats. But I want to see what they are doing in 10 years, for example with regard to women's rights, women and men together in the political arena. They still need to convince people." Ucar's German boosters, however, envision a generational and philosophical shift and believe that Germany should encourage it. "We have change in the sense that we have a young generation in Milli Gorus who want to become German citizens in the full meaning of the word," said Udo Steinbach, director of the German Orient Institute in Hamburg. "They criticize the Milli Gorus leadership as undemocratic, and they want to impose, sooner or later, their values on Milli Gorus to make it more transparent. It's a grass-roots movement led by young people. And I believe in them." Translated as "National Vision," Milli Gorus has its roots in the 1960s as an unofficial European arm of the Islamic Movement in Turkey led by Necmettin Erbakan, whose Welfare Party came to power in 1996 but was overthrown by the military in 1997. Headquartered in Germany, Milli Gorus and earlier incarnations under different names were led at first by Erbakan's brother and then his nephew, Mehmet Sabri Erbakan. It was a closed family enterprise, staffed by Erbakan acolytes sent from Turkey and financed, in part, with cash of dubious origin, according to German officials. The group says it has 27,000 members in Germany. But its influence is much greater in the Turkish community because of its network of 500 mosques, which provide educational, social and leisure services. For years, Milli Gorus advocated a "just order," interpreted by German authorities as an Islamic theocracy, for secular Turkey and Europe. The group did not formally advocate force, but its rhetoric has often contained violent images. "Our battle is against Turkey, Europe and against the whole world," said one former Milli Gorus leader, Ali Yuksel, in a speech in Berlin. At a rally in Neu-Ulm in southern Germany in June 2001, a crowd chanted to Necmettin Erbakan, "If you tell us we should fight, we'll fight, if you tell us we should kill, we will kill." Books advocating violent holy war and promoting Holocaust denial were a staple of the group's book sales for years, and have only recently been removed from its lists, according to German officials. "The Holocaust Lie" by the Turkish Holocaust denier Harun Yahya, for instance, was removed from sale by Milli Gorus only in early 2001. Murck, the domestic intelligence official, cited a statement from a newspaper he said is affiliated with Milli Gorus (the group says the publication is not a formal part of the organization): "In the next century one will see the third European Islamic civilization." He picked another incendiary statement and another, including broadsides against equal rights for women. Ucar counters that the skeptics are trapped in the past, failing to recognize a slow but inexorable reformation. It will be destroyed, he said, if the group is driven underground. "Our congregations have changed greatly," said Ucar, who said he will not allow radical or anti-Semitic material in his mosque and preaches on the virtues of pluralism in his Friday sermons, which once a month are delivered in German. "If members were focused on events in Turkey, these things have lost importance here over the years. Generations are changing. Principles are changing. . . . Ideas are changing." Those changes have been accelerated by the fallout from the terrorist attacks on the United States and by the eclipsing of Erbakan in the recent Turkish elections and the disgrace of a nephew in Germany who resigned recently as the group's leader after he was found to be having an adulterous affair with a Christian woman. "All I can say to our critics is what I repeat over and over: Believe what we say and judge us only by our actions," said Oguz Ucuncu, the 33-year-old general secretary of the organization and an ally of Ucar. " . . . This is a new generation that believes what it says. When people say we are like wolves in sheep's clothing, we can only fight these prejudices by showing that we are different." One of the leaders of Milli Gorus in the Netherlands, Haci Karacaer, recently opened a dialogue on minority rights with the country's gay and lesbian community and consulted a Jewish architect on plans for a mosque in Amsterdam. And local German leaders such as Ucar have opened their mosques to all comers, including their Jewish neighbors. "These talks, in particular with the Muslims, are very important," said Dov-Levy Barsilay, state rabbi of Hamburg. "I have met with Iman Ramazan a few times. . . . We have mostly talked about the problems we have as minorities in Hamburg. They are often similar problems." Milli Gorus and similar organizations are engaged in a public relations effort to improve their image and understanding of Islam, with open days at mosques, sponsored dialogues between Muslim and Christian women, and -- most flamboyantly -- a road-show mosque. The Islamobil, as it's called, is a multimedia mosque that travels on a six-wheeled truck to German cities to bring the religion and its believers closer to Germans of different faiths. Technically independent of Milli Gorus, the Islamobil, graced with a pop-up minaret, is, nonetheless, an extension of the group, according to German officials. "The goal is to provide the opportunity for people to get to know the real Islam, to show that peaceful cohabitation is possible, and to tear down stereotypes," said Metin Aydin, managing director of Islam Info, the nonprofit group that runs Islamobil. Touch-screen computers and videos allow visitors to get information in German on basic aspects of Islam while volunteers answer detailed questions. Passages from the Koran are recited, and music is played as visitors walk through the 40-foot-long mosque. "It was very friendly and open," said Horst Wadehn of Bruehl, a city near Bonn in western Germany where the Islamobil, currently undergoing repairs, made a stop last year. "It was for information only, not at all about converting people to Islam. With Islam, it seems everybody talks about it, but no one is informed." © 2002 The Washington Post Company

Na i disagree, although i would concour with trhat arsenal will be right up there behind Man U. I would quickly like to remind ppl here (COZ THERE ARE PLENTY OF GLORY HUNTING NOMADS HERE) that i dont support Man U. Just have to admit that they are back and they look like champions again .