This is how Somaliland can help itself through education: Somaliland needs to build a really good secondary school that enrolls kids from the ages of 12 to 18. The school should have a capacity of about 800 students. The school will be free for these students. The school will train kids excellently in English, introductory science, history and mathematics. Every 12 year old in Somaliland should be made to take a rigorous IQ test in order to identify the smartest 800 kids around these ages. The kids who attain the top 800 scores get to go to the school for free. If a qualifying student happens to live far from the school, then the Somaliland government should pay a family nearby the school to house the kid. A problem will naturally emerge: Attending the school will come to be seen as a privilege and soon enough corrupt officials will be scheming to get their kids into it the school even though their kids might not have attained the qualifying IQ score. These people must be dealt with ruthlessly. Anyway, here's the purpose of the school: to prepare these young people for higher education in the West in the fields of science, math, engineering and medicine. About 10% should be required to study fields in the humanities -- literature, philosophy, etc, so they can come back and teach these things. EVERY KID WHO IS SENT ABROAD FOR HIGHER EDUCATION SHOULD GET A TERMINAL DEGREE, i.e, a ph.D in his or her field. Of course it'll happen that not every student of the 100 who graduate each year will have the best grades. The school should be VERY tough in order to weed out the sort of student who does not have what it takes -- despite his IQ -- to succeed in an institution of higher education in the West. Only 50 will be sent to the West to study, the other 50, with their thorough education in English, introductory science, and mathematics up to Calculus, can become teachers of kids ages 4 - 11 in other schools. When the 50 who were sent abroad come back with their education, they can be employed in think tanks, institutions of higher education, private businesses, etc -- Somaliland will have more human capital. If this process is maintained long enough pretty soon Somaliland won't need to send anyone abroad for education as Somaliland will have all the qualified professors it needs. In summary: ~select the smartest kids in the Somaliland population since resources are scarce. ~make sure the process doesn't become corrupt, i.e, so and so isn't scheming to get his kids into the school even though they aren't bright enough. ~kids sent abroad get terminal degrees so that when they come back they can put their skills to use in training other teachers and professors.

That documentary was based on a book called "Guns, Germs and Steel." It's by a guy named Jared Diamond. And it wasn't South America -- it was in New Guinea. Here's the documentary:

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: They help ,,, they don't fix ,, Much of Israel's economic success is due to help from the Jewish diaspora. Dismiss me all you want. I'm just trying to be constructive. You on the other hand are a clown making jokes.

Originally posted by GAAROODI: The problem of somali people and governance is the mindset and no philisophical basis. Western governance took many hundreds of years to develop and it developed around a simple question liberty and the boundries of liberty. and the need of the people for order and protection. Read Isiah Berlin and John lock the two great thinkers who created the notion of modern day governance. Any successful notion of governance has to come straight from philosophy. Simply, ask yourself this question why has somalia failled, It's simply too much to try to set up a Western style government in Somalia because, as you suggest, the people are not culturally ready. The immediate question is making Somalia a functional state, and the root cause of that statelessness is the food problem. Our style of corruption flows from the food problem. This is not a binary issue, i.e, corruption and non-corruption. Corruption happens in degrees. Corruption in black african countries, because of the food problems, are at one extreme, and corruption in Western countries is on the other. not because of curroption, because there are alot of countries out there that are curropt and still standing, somalia failed because of the lack of justice. You had real abuse of power, centered around a man not an elected body or constitution, this lack of justice led to the divisions which still exist today. This is short-sighted. The lack of justice stemmed from the lack of food: desperate people do desperate things. If Somalia breaks apart, then all the smaller Somalias will have to contend with these issues on their own. I am not of the north, and I do not have any issues with Somaliland seeking secession (whether you'll get it is a whole separate question) but the secession issue is beside the point: you'll still face these problems. Somaliland and Somalia as two seperate nations, with puntland being allowed to have its own referendum on its future. Let everyman deside his own fate and future. this would restore justice and allow the order to come back to the somali mind, which would give precident for all somali territories to have peace by working together on certain mutual interests such as peace, while maintain individual interests that help maintain justice. Just as Somalia is a shit-hole because its full of Somalis, so too is Somaliland a shit-hole because it's full of Somalilanders. Admittedly, Somaliland is somewhat of a better shithole, but it's still considered to be one of the worst places in the world. So, really, saying 'this shithole is now independent" is only pushing back the problem and not solving it.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: and you want to fix Somalia ? ,,, Heh. Look at the Jews in the U.S who help Israel thrive: how many of them can speak Hebrew?

Can you say it in English please? I can't read Somali anymore. =( (I could when I was 7 though!) You said "uncle" and "bone" but I don't get the rest. I think you're saying "you're chocking on a bone." So you can go to hell.

It seems like every African country has had problems maintaining a government treasury. This is because those with power have many kin. The kin exert pressure on the person with power to loot the treasury, and the person in power must inevitably oblige lest he lose the support of his kin. Other people see this and suddenly want to come into power so they too could feed/enrich their kin. Voila! Soon you have a civil war over resources fought along tribal lines. And pretty soon there won't be a government treasury. So, to we Somalis: corruption is naturally in our blood. It has to be because of our cultural mindset. Since a lot of people know that having power puts you in a position to loot the treasury, African countries inevitably have trouble forming stable governments as a lot of people want to come into power to loot the treasury and others are suspicious of them/want to do the same thing. How the hell do we escape from this trap? By being aware of it and exercising self-control. It takes a few people believing in non-corruption before it becomes widespread and becomes a standard as everyone comes to see the benefit of non-corruption. Right now, as things stand, a non-corrupt idealist in Somalia is a fool for the simple reason of all the other corrupt people near him. He will be taken advantage of and his idealism will amount to nothing. We must attack the problem at its root: fighting hunger. For if a government minister doesn't have so many kin tugging at his pants begging money so they could eat, that government minister would not NEED to be corrupt. Sure, he could STILL be corrupt, but there won't be that sort of need that usually drives african people to such crime. The government minister could instead, perhaps, be only slightly corrupt instead of totally corrupt. That difference would be significant. Thus the most important, immediate goal for any Somali nationalist -- as opposed to Somali tribalist -- is to increase food production in Somalia. Southern Somalia could produce a hell of a lot of food. And along with food production we need to take care of the water problem, which we need tackle before producing food. We need to set up irrigation systems from the Jubba and Shebelle rivers. If we take care of the food problem and turn just 10% of Somalis into very productive farmers, and tap the available arable land in Southern Somalia, a lot of problems will go away and stability will return to the region. Young Somali westerners could, instead of studying whathever the hell they study in college, study horticulture and apprentice themselves to modern farms to see how things are done. The goal, then, is simple: turn a small, but substantial, amount of those Somali nomads into permanent, GOOD farmers. This will end up fixing 70% of the country's problems. (Also, consider the economic impact: your average Somali, if he doesn't have to worry about food (i.e, herding his cows and whatnot,) could then devote his free time to acquiring other skills. This is the most important impact of a good agricultural system: it frees up everyone else to master other trades necessary for progress.) What do you think? Is such an idea doomed because pretty soon ****** and ****** would be arguing over who gets to be farmers and then would start fighting, thereby dooming the people to eternal destitution?

Originally posted by m_aden_nur: [QB] this one is in Philippines,the only difference with Somalia is that WOMEN are the commanders/leaders. My suspicion is that if the tribal mindset disappeared from the mind of every Somali man -- but not any Somali woman -- pretty soon Somali men would regain the mindset. If on the other hand it disappeared from the mind of every Somali woman, it would also disappear from the mind of every Somali man.

Originally posted by fatboy: our mindlessness has an aim, a pure capatilist sociaty! Pure capitalism would be great for Somalia. It really, really would. Here's the thing, though: to get pure capitalism going you need a government that has a monopoly on force and which can enforce contracts. IF there was such a government, capitalism could work its magic. Consider: you wouldn't even need the government to run schools or prisons. Businesses could do that. But the government would need to subsidize those who can't afford to pay for school -- and people aren't going to pay for themselves to be jailed (or could they?) Anyway, there would need to be a government with the power to enforce contracts and punish criminals, because without such a government, making any sort of investment will be tantamount to throwing down the toilet. However, the government would need REVENUE, and that pretty much has to come from taxes. Either that or the government, after acquiring a substantial amount of money, could construct roads, schools, police stations etc and charge the citizens every time they make use of such services. Because of our tribal system, Somali government employees will naturally tend towards corruption, so keeping the government as small as possible is a must. On the other hand, would Somalis like you only be willing to endure a "capitalist" society in name only? Would I, as an individual in this society, be free to lend money to people and charge interest? Or, since that's "haram," would my bank get burned down?

Originally posted by 2+2=5: I was reading somewhere that these scams cost a lot of money for the society every year. I'm just wondering how much more these individuals who fall for these things, cost the society. You're screwed.

Watch this fascinating video about the natives of New Guinea: Look at these people's small mindedness. Look at their inability to think big and realize that working for the common good is better than fighting each other. Also observe how much more dangerous Western weapons have made the place. These New Guineans could never have produced such weapons but they can easily incorporate them into their lives with devastating effects. How in the world can the average New Guinean come to realize that his behavior is rotten? How can a New Guinean who realizes the wrongness of his people's way of life bring about any change when the rest of his people are such ****** savages? Really...how are Somalis any different?

By the way, consider the success of Asia. It's true that Europe beat Asia to most of the monumental scientific and technological advances. However, observe how quickly Asia has adopted the scientific and technological achievements of Europe. Why? Because Asian societies had, for thousands of years, literacy and government. They could quickly adopt the achievements of Europe because Asia had the cultural capital to do so. Africa does not have that cultural capital, and the reason it doesn't could be due to biological differences. I'm open to the "it's just culture!" argument though. But consider: do you really think it's possible for your average everyday African to change his cultural mindset on the spot so as to make his or her society less hellish? Can you imagine your average Somali in Somalia abandoning the tribal mindset? These problems are simply intractable.

In seeking truth, we must be open to all possibilities, even ones that offend our sensibilities. Occam's Razor holds that the simplest explanation is often the best one. Sub-saharan Africa could be the way it is because black Africans might have evolved differently from Asians and Whites. At one point, humans were one group that looked alike. They lived in Africa, and split into various groups. After thousands of years -- scientists estimate about fifty to sixty thousand years ago -- ONE of these groups left Africa and populated the rest of the earth. Follow the map here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/Migration_map4.png Those letters represent DNA markings. The point is, as humans left Africa, different human groups were exposed to different environments, and were therefore subject to DIFFERENT SELECTION PRESSURES. The people who lived in Europe and Asia, over time, were exposed to environmental conditions that were far more harsh than what Africans were exposed to. Africans might have had it tough, but perhaps the Asians and Europeans had it tougher -- for TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Thus over time, the Europeans and Asians biologically adapted to their harsher conditions in the form of observable physical differences AND ALSO in the form of BEHAVIOR AND INTELLIGENCE. WE ARE STILL THE SAME SPECIES. However, blacks, asians, and whites could all represent the sub-species of "homo sapien sapien." The White and Asian members of this group have different biological characteristics from those of the black group, characteristics that are comprised of the physical (i.e, skin color, hair, etc) and the psychological (I.Q, future-time orientation, ability to delay gratification). IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT BLACK PEOPLE CAN'T BE SMART. What it means is, however, is that there are far more likely to be geniuses and merely smart people among your average 100 whites than among your average 100 blacks. We know evolution is true. We know that blacks and whites and Asians have evolved different bodies that lead to different group results in athletics (how much would you bet that the next winner of the Boston Marathon is an East African?). We just need to make the further step of being open to differences also emerging in psychological traits as well, and I think the endless problems of Africa, and the lack of black representation in the fields of mathematics and science, as well as the numerous IQ studies that always place blacks on the bottom, all point to one unsettling but convincing hypothesis: the dysfunctions of blacks world-wide is due in part to genetics.

Somalis are a pathetic people.

Nearly every Somali operates under the assumption that there is a pie that can be divided up only through tribal feuding. They don't realize that there is a far more bigger pie that can result from COOPERATION.

Originally posted by Johnny B: ^The permise that Somalia would not be culturally equipped in comparision to other African/Arab states is neither true nor freindly, its but a non-creditable hostile huff, i.e the hint in itself is an insult to our(my) ethnicity, namely ( Somaliness ). What the hell does your Somaliness amount to? Somalis are not culturally equipped to handle statehood. Statehood requires cooperation among the citizenry. Somalis inherently cannot cooperate amongst themselves, because of their culture...and possibly because of their religion. Kinship concerns are more "real" to Somalis than civic duty and nationalism -- concepts which are abstract to Somalis.

Well the term "peninsula" already means something. "Somali Peninsula" is simply inaccurate no matter what you mean. It's like saying "Somali Island."

Originally posted by Halyeey 11: somaliand is not save so be careful , I myself have been there, there is big discrimination one might be harmed because of his clan linage that the reality there Is this true?

Since our people are not culturally equipped to handle traditional nationhood, and since to the average Somali the tribe and clan are more *real* and interesting than a united greater Somalia, why should we not partition the country into several states? If these states then happen to become functional and peaceful, so that neither can drag down another, THEN a 'greater somalia' might be beneficial for everyone, but as it stands, it seems hypocritical of some Somalis to resent Somaliland seeking separation (which it basically has except for lack of recognition.) I say this as someone from the south.

Originally posted by MAXIMUS POWERS: I believe its time to put an end to this concept of greater Somalia, which is unreasonable and unrealistic and embrace the eventual and evitable fragmentation of the Somali peninsula. By embracing the self-determination of different regions in Somalia peninsula, we will expand the Somali language, culture and expand the notion of ‘somaliness’ across and into new frontier. [/QB] Indeed. Though I think it's wrong to call Somalia a Peninsula. If Somalia were to be partitioned into various states, with Somaliland being one of them, and these various states all became functional on their own, then there might a benefit for all the states for there to be a united greater Somalia. As it stands though the idea of a Somali country is simply impossible for cultural reasons.

Not to toot my own horn of course and say that I can bring ideas/business. =D

I really didn't mean to offend. See, I have a parent who is very -- shall we say -- qabiilistic, and it would be a lie to say that years of being exposed to this parent's unrelenting qabiil concerns did not give me certain negative impressions. I hope they're false. In any case, I really am glad that Somalia -- at least certain portions of it -- are improving, and the more these areas improve the more they become attractive to expats such as myself who can bring ideas/business.

**********please don't post and discuss clans on our websites. That is against our golden rules. Don't mention the name of any clan on our website*************** This is a waring. [ November 27, 2009, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]