25th Hour is my favorite. It came out in 2002 and was set in New York a couple of months after 9/11 even though the story doesn't have much to do with that. When it came out the film generally received good reviews but it was pretty underrated. However, last year it was in a fair number of "Best of the decade" lists. It's snidely referred to as Spike Lee's "white" movie. This scene from it is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Za2k5wA3sk ^Not a spoiler, but I recommend experiencing it first in the actual movie.

Its from the National Defense University in Washington, DC.

It's a WAR GAME people. They're just acting out a POSSIBLE scenario. No, it's not a joke or anything like that but just training in foreign policy issues. It even says it's from some university on the video.

Somaliland has invested too much in the idea of seperatism to simply settle for Federalism at this point.

Good thread. Here's the issue though: I think an appreciation for the rule of law -- for the necessity of a government-- must precede democratic secularism. Consider the fact that nearly all European countries were monarchies for the longest time where the common man was not free at all to have a voice in the creation of laws. But the rule of law was always forced upon the non-elite so that after hundreds of years they became culturally dependent on it. It was in no one's interest to have everything devolve into anarchy. And it isn't just European countries that this is true of. Consider Japan and China. Both countries had systems of government that enforced rigid laws for, in the case of Japan, at least 1.5 thousand years and in China's case considerably longer. These sort of governments are obviously far from today's ideal but at least they were governments, and they had a lasting and deep impact on the culture of the people. There is also the issue of literacy. A significant portion of the population of these people -- Europeans and Asians -- could read and write for hundreds of years. This also had an effect on their governments and laws. Somalis on the otherhand had practically never known of the concept of government (and literacy!) before the arrival of Europeans. Sure, we had our own indigious form of conflict resolution and so on, but our way of life didn't necessitate any form of central government. To go from this chaotic state to a secular democracy is, simply, too much of a jump. The cultural inertia from our pre-European contact years was simply too strong against the systems the Europeans gave us and, therefore, the military dictatorships and eventual disolution of the government was inevitable. You're talking about hundreds of years of clans and tribalism. This cultural inertia is still strong today because quite frankly there remain entirely rational reasons for your average Somali to cling to it: if he or she doesn't, he or she would lose any protection that clan/tribe offers. In the olden days your possessions and sheep and camels were protected by your fellow clan/sub-clan members against other clans. How could anyone in such a circumstance forsake his tribe/clan? How can anyone in Somalia today forsake his tribe/clan? It simply isn't rational to do so. And yet, the clan/tribe system doesn't really make sense in a world where people have united as NATIONS to further their interests. The nation is the ultimate tribe. Somalis need to come to understand first the benefits of nationhood, and a people cannot achieve secular democracy without having been prepared in the rule of law and literacy for hundreds of years.

By the way, don't think I'm against Somaliland going its own way. I don't think our people are capable of nationhood, and we might as well go our separate ways (and economically cooperate with each other.) I'm just against the unending childishness of many Somalilanders who post here, what with their endless "somaliland this, somaliland that" posts/threats. Are you REALLY going to make us hear about every little thing that Somaliland does which shows that the Somaliland government is at least barely functional? Grow up.

Also, you know that region of Puntland that Somaliland currently holds? If Somaliland is such a democratic place why not let the people of Sool and Santaag determine for themselves who to join?

Originally posted by GAAROODI: I run it that makes it mine. I see, law of the gun: just the very thing Somalis are struggling to break free from.

Originally posted by GAAROODI: you are forgetting the point, i dont oppose anyones right to succeed everyone has that right, but succeed in a manner that is guinine not based on lies and cheap talk. My success is visable on the ground you must acknowledge that, i dont talk up my successes they are there to be seen. But when you have muppets running wild on what they are even though they are nothing it is my pleasure to bring them back down to reality. It's pretty clear that you see any progress or success that Puntland makes as a threat. If Puntland is composed of a bunch of people full of hot air whose claims aren't backed up by reality...why not just ignore and pity them and focus on the region of the country you consider yours? In short, you're a hate monger, and while people in Puntland would probably just shrug their shoulders at any progress that Somaliland makes, it's clear that the idea of Puntland following the foot steps of Somaliland strikes you, for some reason, as a threat. Perhaps because then Somaliland won't be so special anymore in your eyes. Dude, progress and civilization depend upon suppressing the sort of raging hatred you're expressing right now. The success of Somaliland will be, in its own way, ultimately beneficial to the people in Puntland, and vice versa. Think of the big picture here.

Somaliland this, Somaliland that.

Please, no more selective photos of hotels/homes/new neighborhoods in Somalia. It's REALLY pathetic. Thanks!

Garoodi is what's wrong with Africa.

Garoodi brings to mind this Gore Vidal quote: "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." It isn't enough that Somaliland itches closer to becoming a functional region: other Somali regions must fail all the more, just so that the contrast with Somaliland is all the more stark. Suppose there was a button that, if pushed, would make Puntland into a prosperous, peaceful and successful region of Somalia, and that it was right in front of Garoodi. Would he push it? It certainly doesn't look like it. Instead of taking pity on other regions of Somalia still struggling, Garoodi welcomes such failure. It's like a poor man being given pleasure by the sight of people poorer than himself.

Garoodi brings to mind this Gore Vidal quote: "It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail." It isn't enough that Somaliland itches closer to becoming a functional region: other Somali regions must fail all the more, just so that the contrast with Somaliland is all the more stark. Suppose there was a button that, if pushed, would make Puntland into a prosperous, peaceful and successful region of Somalia, and that it was right in front of Garoodi. Would he push it? It certainly doesn't look like it. Instead of taking pity on other regions of Somalia still struggling, Garoodi welcomes such failure. It's like a poor man being given pleasure by the sight of people poorer than himself.

Haha, I thought this was funny: Sheikh Ahmed has a sizeable brood of his own—on his own word, no fewer than thirty-five children, “praise be to God,” and his current wife, his twelfth, is now pregnant. And then he says this: “I want you to hear what I have to say, and I want you to write this down. I am an old man and I have worked a long time, and I am sad my country is in this state. I wish I had a country that could reward its best citizens. If my country were not at war, I would have retired by now; I would have received my reward, because I have worked hard. I never harmed anyone. I raised my children properly, and they have never harmed anybody, either. So I wait for this weak state to give me my reward, so I can go home.” Anybody seeing the connection? This man monopolized twelve women. I take it that in Somalia, like anywhere else, the ratio of men to women is roughly 1:1. If the Sheikh dominated twelve women, that means eleven other men couldn't find wives. These men pretty much have nothing except amble time to sow discord and chaos. The poor man can't see how his own selfishness contributes to the ruin of his country.