Originally posted by Prometheus: I prefer to understand allusions to jinns in a less literal fashion, as instances of figurative language - parable, metaphor, imagery. Ismalura, have you seen a typical exorcism video? Such primitive "medical" practices are not only ineffective but dangerous, a flouting of the "first, do no harm" principle of medicine. Besides, the spectacle of a mullah pestering a patient with dopaminergic pathway problems with religious ultimatums is farcical. How is it a metaphor when Allah says that he created jinn and Insi and calls them 'thaqaleyn'? whom he created for worship. You can't 'prefer' when the quran is clear about an issue you either believe or you don't. I have no seen an exorcism video ( I suspect you are talking about the Christian satan fighting sessions here) but I have seen people who have allegedly been possessed by jinn and feel better after the quran is recited on them . I also know that you plus everyone else here has seen and known that but when we become more 'civilized' it is easier to deny 'barbaric' acts like that. How much is the 'do no harm' rule of medicine adhered to by those who practice modern medicine? You are either too ignorant of the system and see it perfect or you choose to ignore its flows. Again you didn't answer my question on why such a high percentage of the population in the supposedly most advanced health systems in the world , have mental health issues.

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ There you go again. I asked you one question (which you did not reply to by the way) and you came back at me with half a dozen of yours that do nothing but state the obvious. Lets try again, do you believe that Jinn possess people? Why? And how did you arrive at such a belief? (that they exist is not enough nooh). Obvious baad sheegeysaa ee isn't it obvious that I believe that jinn possess people? Can't you see how arrive at that from to from the questions preceding this;B]Do you see some basis for possession there?[/b] Aniga hade adult school teacher ma ihi ee hadadan wax fahmenynin kac meel kale macalin u raadso. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Taleexi: Ismalura: I rest my case, ishaad ka riday [/i] Illaahay Amarkiis Do tell dee if there was such an incident. We need some more laughter while Wiilwaal does more videos.

Originally posted by Taleexi: Ismalura: Wuxuu Somali intellectual girl wiilwaal ka sheegay wax baa ka jira I hope inaanan qarasta kugu sii kicin. Taleexi ma adigaa lagugu qasabay a vegrterain dish and than lagu yidhi wash it down with glass of whisky? Wiil waal is doing observational humour and the genralizations make it funnier lakiin the generalizations are not true. May be except for the one on finding them at the human rights

Originally posted by Malika: ^You taking it literally dear @ Malika I am not. Someone else complained about it and I said it is just a joke. See the previous page. @ Somal waa runaa maanta qarasteydaa kor soo marsan. I am just pissed off lakiin I don't have a problem with Wiilwaal's vidoes.

Apparently bending the rules of language to take back your words. starving is a situation...you could be starving this minute and not be starving the next one same thing for angry. Also note the use of could and can which show that is conditional. Being a sexist is an ideology; starving and being angry are not.To see your fallacy try and say 'I am so sexist today, I could hate women's logic'. Make any sense? Unsaying what you said says it all, pretty much.

@ Wiil waal make more videos please bal ilaahey amarkiis. Plus, like I said in the former comment, I hope the point about the intellectual women is just a joke. I mean you certainly couldn't think that all intellectual women drink, party and hate other Somalis.

You admit your a sexist that goes beyond the statement that you don't like their logic. PS: wax fahan Noun 1. sexist - a man with a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of women male chauvinist antifeminist - someone who does not believe in the social or economic or political equality of men and women Adj. 1. sexist - discriminatory on the basis of sex (usually said of men's attitude toward women)

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ Of course. I am a Muslim after all. There are several mentions of them in the quran and hadeeth. I don't question you being a muslim or take it for granted so I had to ask you the question. Are they visible? We agree that there is jinn (mentioned in the quran so we know for sure) and they are not visible (unless you have seen some your self) and they share the earth with us (as also mentoned in the quran and hadith.) Do you see some basis for possession there? My God ! western education is pushing out some other knowledge from people's brains. Try and keep them all in people !

Read them and wrote them again. Why are you against women beating? for naxariis? If a man doesn't beat up his wife but sill believes she is of a less worth is he better than the wife beaters? Damiin far waaweeyn hadaan wax ugu qoro what I am asking is if you are not against wife beating because you believe that women are equal beings with same rights as you are you against it because you feel sorry for the lesser beings? You sound very smart your self so kudos mr logic ! Nimanka qaar ood adi ku jirto naagtuu ilaahey wax ugu daraa dhibata qabto.

Do you believe there is jinn?

Originally posted by Aaliyyah: quote: Absolutely don't care and wouldn't drive that in a million years even if I had the money. Not to mention that I wouldn't know if its expensive or cheap if i saw it outside my house. did you have a bad day today?? you seem so tense loooool Plus you are tripping/ if you saw a handsome farah front of your house with that car waad ogtahay in aadan dideene..see wax u jiraan Of course I am having a bad day. Isn't that obvious from kharaarkeyga? Here I am taking four buses a day to get to school and people are parading around gaadhiyo qaali ah. I would be glad for anything that gets me from point A to point B. I wouldn't say no to seeing a young handsome Farax in front of my house any day Lakiin what I don't care about is an expansive car of the latest make... My tests in material things are simple, my tests in men are not Get it?

Originally posted by Prometheus: I'm not sure who's more loopy and crazy; the judge who is supposedly possessed by a jinn, or the lawyer whose defense strategy is putting the jinn on the witness stand. Mental disorders such as schizophrenia, clinical depression, psychosis, and mania are all mistreated in that part of the world as demonic possession. Instead of being administered palliative drug treatments, a patient is subjected to a battery of useless - oftentimes ruthless - incantation rituals that scarcely treat the underlying physiological problem. How sad. Are you saying there is no Jinn? I actually think the opposite of what you said...they diagnize chizophrenia, clinical depression, psychosis, and mania when they see people possessed by the jinni. 'They' have made the biggest discoveries in mental disorders and have the largest number of mental health doctors yet they have the largest number of people suffering from this problems, care to explain?

Absolutely don't care and wouldn't drive that in a million years even if I had the money. Not to mention that I wouldn't know if its expensive or cheap if i saw it outside my house.

Absolutely don't care and wouldn't drive that in a million years even if I had the money. Not to mention that I wouldn't know if its expensive or cheap if i saw it outside my house.

Actually it matters IF she changed it. When you change something about you to fit in with someone else you admit that your is inferior to the other. Exactly my problem when I see Somali's dying to assimilate.

Yes you made the distinction clear. But Your argument was on 1) There is no such women in distinction two and b) there is no reason why they should be distinction b because 'common sense' is against it and if there is they deserve the beating. I was saying a) There are women in b I have known them personally and I have always felt bad for them. b) they are there because they don't know better; they have had no opportunity to know otherwise i.e all the people they know tell them so... Pliz try and read Somali maahmaahyo and stories and see how misogynist they are if you don't believe me. c) Finally see my point about personality and intelligence. Their 'God given brains' may not be the same as yours. There is no guarantee that even if they knew they would understand.So are you saying that their ignorance makes them deserving of the punishment. By the way you are right that the same women support the abuse of other women ! Irony is if they saw me or knew what i think they would brand me 'naag halowday'.

Jinni wuu jiraa it is mentioned in the Quran and it can influence people in certain ways. But this is is probably a very lame excuse to deny responsibility for his actions. He must think that people are ****** to make such claims to cover up for his corruption. Wonder who spent the money him or the Jinni?

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Very, very sad result to see. She was defeated by the newly elected mayor's brother. That marax Ford family ayaaba that district iska leh. It was his brother before him, and before that their father was elected from there to Ontario provincial parliament. And what is even more sadder is that Toronto, of all places, got a new right-wing, conservative mayor. oh, Koronto, now nalka ayaa ka dami doono. Too bad that she didn't win but still it is heartening enough that she went that far. May be next time ! In Ottawa all I saw was balaayo wada madax dheer for the council.

How do Nomads feel about this? I hate it !

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ War leave this topic and go read the one about the Saudi judge and the Jinni. Now that is fantastic. C&H The women that accept beatings do so because they believe it makes them better Muslims. Do you not agree and how could you make a judgment if you are avoiding the religious element of the discussion? That is what I am trying to tell C&H who probably grew up in the west. I grew up in a refugee camp; a very traditional, judgemental and mostly illiterate society and I swear I have seen women who believe that by accepting this they will go to Janatul-Fardowsa. On the other hand you said you are a sexist and 'don't like women's logic' so why are you against wife beating? for naxariis? If a man doesn't beat up his wife but sill believes she is of a less worth is he better than the wife beaters? Seriously is there any evidence here that our logic is weaker than yours... ninba qumanahiisaa qoorta ugu jiraan maqli jiray.

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: [QB] NG, What are you talking about? Maybe a little slap upside the head will make this cyber discussion more friendly? Let me try to make myself clear: 1. I reject that specific interpretation that the court used because I don't believe in its validity. 2. I can understand why the MEN might want to push for beating, but ANY woman who is satisfied with the court's ruling DESERVES to be beaten and she will be beaten. 3. I support those who are caught up in a cycle of abuse because they have no way out or can't get but I don't support or feel sorry for ANY women who believes getting beaten will make her a better wife or a better Muslim. C & H. I agree with you on the first point. I don't agree with you on the third one but it is your choice who you feel sorry for or not. However I have a feeling that you (and Juxa) took a totally individualistic stand to this.... "My personality, intelligence, environment and education allow me to know my rights and protect my self and I don't care if others can't" kind of thing. I personally know a million and one ways to avoid and fight back in case of domestic violence and I am grateful for every part of me that allows for this but unfortunately many people don't know or don't have means to 'walk away'. Finally when you say that someone 'deserves' a beating for any reason don't you have some thing in common with the wife beaters since they also think that she 'deserves' the beating. NO WOMAN and I repeat NO WOMAN deserves a beating and that is their God given right which neither you nor the wife beaters can take away from them.

Originally posted by Taleexi: Waa hagaag mar haddiiba aad rabtid inaad computer-ka ka soo dhex baxdo si aad ii edbiso. Cafis iyo masaamax xagayga bal Illaahay amarkiis Glad in aad cabsatay and saved me the trouble of travelling through the computer

Originally posted by Taleexi: CH: Be mind, all people aren't on equal footing in terms of analogical reasoning and analytical thinking. It is a fact that people make decisions about their lives based on information available to them at the time thus, you can't generalize the entire population....... To tune in in the same frequency. Adiguse in yar oo aan dhib kuu geysanayn haddii lagu edbiyo maxaad ku diiday, unionkiina la badbaadiyo:) Taleexi stop talking of this edbin or else computarka intaan kaga soo baxno aanu ku idbino.; You know how angry I am. Mida kale single mothers baa naga batay wa adiga leh would you rather have her beaten and bruised than single. Life is about choices and I have to choose between having a husband and been beaten up I would rather be single. I, however, know that I can take care of myself and my kids which unfortunately, is not the case for many people. It is sad that some women have to be in between a rock and a hard place.

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: quote: On the issue of acceptance how can you choose when you don't know if they are other options?You can't reject something if you don't know better and if it is accepted by every one around you. To sum it up it is a "everyone I know lives like this and says that this is the right so this most be the only way" kind of thinking. I know that you're playing the devil's advocate so to speak. But where in the world does such hemogenous thinking exist? Even in cults,opposing views exist though they might not get expressed freely. I doubt that there is a socity or a culture out there so secluded that that they are unawere of other options. Even within such society there has got to be some variations. Taleexi, The question is maxaa la ii idbin? Ninka ma asagaa i dhalay? So anigo qof weeyn ah oo aduunka meel ka marayo ima arkin? :rolleyes: Yes there are a lot of homogenous societies especially where religion is concerned no one challenges or questions arbitrary rules. And when I say homogenous I don't mean 100 % I mean 95 % and the other 5 % are seen as the 'others' and don't 'express ideas freely' for fear of further exclusion. I grew up in such a community where only black in white is seen just like you except that you are on the opposite side.