Abtoow, whenever you address Maaddeey, I find myself gleefully nodding in concurrence. I could have easily written the exact words. You're against lopping off limbs, you appreciate the value of music, you think apostates should be ignored, not beheaded. You surmise that Islam should be tailored to our modern needs and sentiments. You don't believe in a puritan form of Islam. You're definately not of the terrorist persuasion. Dee maxaad maantoo dhan ii xiijinaysay, caano waa ee. Laakiin nin xarshin ka yimi oo xagxagsho jecel baad tahay oo waad yara sal fududdahay, xogay naaqusinimo baad la nuux-nuuxsanaysaa, sidaa uma fogid, anaa ku idhi.

The crux of the problem confronting the Facebook girl is manifested in this thread with peculiar vividness. There's a culture of sanctimony and paranoia amongst muslims. Everyone thinks that he is the gate-keeper of the faith. Everyone has suspicions that all nonmuslims are out to get Islam. Saying anything can get your head on the chopping-block these days. If some girl on facebook expresses skepticism, Nomads want to outdo each her in their pietistic outrage. If some old man on SOL professes like-mindedness by rethinking certain dogmas, he will be badgered ad naseum by a throng rummies and ninnies. Why? The petulant puritans want to purge Islam from what they view as wishy-washy, insufficiently righteous elements. Al-Shabaab would accuse Abtiga of outright apostasy the same way he accuses others of concealed heresy. Both approaches are silly and sanctimonious. Both lead more people away from religion. Religion is a personal matter. Owing to various levels of education and types of experiences, each person will intrepret Islam in a way that best suits him. There's no "absolute" or "pure" Islam from which we can measure who is "muslim" enough. No one has a monopoly over its interpretation. Not Al-Shabaab. Not a scholar. Not Abtiga.

Gheelle, yes. I think Maaddeey omitted a word, unless this is another rewayah. It says: the pilgriming-woman (al mohrema) should not wear the neqab or the qefazayn. From this hadith, some people infer that the norm is to wear the neqab and qefaz; during hajj, an exception is made to this normative rule.

Gheelle, it's true. Women who wear the face veil (niqab) and the hand covers (qefaz) do it out of a sense of religious duty - they think it is recommended (mostahab), if not obligatory (wajeb). It's all based on hadiths. Of course, the question is: what are the source and nature of such hadiths; and is it sensible for us to apply them in these times and climes, or are there other interpretations? lol@ Jacpher. People forget that there are "authentic" hadiths about how evil it is to take, make, or use pictures, unless such pictures are absolutely necessary. Needless to say, this is another example of a hadith that we would be wise to jettison. This doesn't mean you're rejecting it. You're merely following a more sensible interpretation.

looool@ Karl. Napolean's composition is as polished and varnished as the half-wit who has been haranguing me all day. Be that as it may, I am not under the illusion that Abtiga is Napolean even if they share a penchant for insufferable composition.

لو كنت تعلمُ ما أقول عذرتني أو كنت أعلم ما تقول عذلتكا لكن جهـلت مقالتي فعذلـتني وعلمتُ أنك جاهلٌ فعـذرتكا Intaas ha inoo ahaato, adeer.

What a joke. Would the craven, male-only Al-Shabaab terrorist leadership send these unwitting mothers and sisters to the battle lines to die gut-wrenching deaths? Sad, indeed.

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tusbax: Raamsade waan u gafay, oo waaba nin fikirkiisa si edeb leh u sheegta. Waar bal daya dammiinkii wuxuu ugu danbeysiiyey Raamsade maaha hadaad tidhi saaxigaad keentay. Tawbadaadu maqbuul weeyaan, waxa kuu hadhsan uun inaad tidhaa islaam weeye. Horta, waadigan catow iyo calaacal wada, oo aflagaaddo baad oodda iiga qaadday leh, dee waxaad soo daabacday ma ammaan baa, miyaanu deel-qaaf iyo asluub-xumo ahayn, awoowe? Mar horaan si odaynimo ah ku idhi qofaad isku caqli iyo camal tihiin la yooyootan oo wakhtiga hayga lumin. Maaddeey, xabad yaroo argagaxiso baad tahay, laakiin rag lama caasiyee su'aal fiican baad Abtiga weydiisay.

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tusbax: Nowhere did Rhazes spoke carabi, and even if he does, it might be a ploy to creat exactly the impression you got. Wuu soow bowsan karaa inyar oo uu isku qariyo. But this is Raamsade. Trust me. Kaagan yar ee hantaataca badan kolna Baashi oo inoo dhuumanaya weeyaan dheh, kolna Raamsade oo hulaab kale inoo soo xidhay weeyaan dheh. Doodda haka leexin hilinka toosan, adeer. Unbeknownst to you, of course, is the reality that SOL was intellectually more lively when Baashi, Sophist, Viking, Jamaal-11 et al were regular contributors. Kuwa xafaayada xidhan oo adigoo miidhan baa hoygani ka dhigay meel lama soo galaan ah. Walee dhallaan iyo dheddig baa meesha kharibay.

Doqonniimo [Abtigiis iyo Tusbax] waa loogu dawgalaye. I think the mullahs have to rethink some of their approaches (and interpretations) to religion. The mullahs can, for instance, eschew and discard certain parts of jurisprudence. Abtiga vehemently opposes lopping off limbs. I think adult breast-feeding is utterly preposterous. These views ought to become mainstream amongst the mullahs. A person who holds such views should not be labelled a heretic or apostate. Otherwise, the hapless mullahs will be consigned to obscurity and irrelevance in the eyes of enlightened, educated Somalis.

Waar ileen tanoo kale. Hadmuu Abtiga noqday wadaad diinta difaaca? Sowtaynu ku ogayn inuu gacan-togaaleeyo arrimaha sariirta la xidhiidha iyo habka ay dadyow islaameed u galmoodaan. Abtoow, labadeena waxa laga yaabaa inaan anigu dhanka diinta kaaga fiicnahay. Wadaadkii waallaa ee bakhtiyay muxuu yidhi: Nimaan sharaxa diimeed, Sheynaba ka suurayn Hadii aad u sheegtana Shaqfadloo aan gararayn Adiguna aad sheekh tahay, Isaguna sharmuud yahay Oo kula shikaayoon, Illeen waa shiddiyo hoog

How do the terrorists and the terrorist-sympathizers like them apples? I hope Obama's national security team really "redoubles" its efforts in Somalia.

Well said, NGONGE. To say that the erosion of her faith is merely a symptom of her lack of islamic instruction is an all-too-convenient (and lazy) solution . It's possible that this Mofakkera knows the niceties of tawhed al olohiya, robobiya, and asma wa elsefat - the so-called essence of monotheism. It's possbile she studied the seerah of the prophet, from the early Meccan days to the pivotal Medinian phase, wherein most of the Shariah became a full-fledged code of conduct. Perhaps she understands Maqased El Shariah and the islamic narrative. What then? Hers is a symptom of an agile and acute mind, in the midst of the pangs of doubt, in the throes of unfettered introspection - a deliciously excruciating ordeal. Every thoughtful religious person goes through a similiar phase. Al-Ghazali, the storied theologian, professed doubts about the most cherished beliefs of his mind. I don't much care whether she becomes a deist, theist, or an atheist. The spark of thought, whatever its truth-value, is what counts most in this instance. It ought to be celebrated, not dampened with fatuous speculation about her social life. As a muslim (this might come as a suprise to the miserable miscreants who would sooner excommunicate me from Islam), I think these kind of questions do not always lead to a denouncment of religon, rather it creates a refined, reformed interpretation of religion that does not clash with our modern sensibilities. And God knows too many interpretations of Islam are at loggerheads with rudimentary ethics and human ideals.

Why do SOLers always assume I'm an old Nomad? Ibtisam said I was Cicero. Karl Polyani said I was Max. Abtiga says I'm Raamsade. Someone else sent me a message, speculating whether I was xiinfaniin's alter-ego. I'm not Johnny either. I guess I'm everything to everyone. :mad:

Abtiga, I'll belabour the obvious if you insist. If you actually read what I wrote in this thread, you'd know that I specifically stated that nonbelief (by itself) is not a sign of intelligence or erudition. At the same time, I thought it a bit intruiging that the overwhelming majority of scientists of the Royal Society (UK's honorific society of professional scientists) and the National Academy of Sciences (US's equivalent body of scientists) are nonbelievers. Perhaps there's no correlation between mastery of science and lack of faith. But these statistics beg for an explanation. There is also a correlation between education and religiosity. The less educated are more prone to religion than the highly educated.

Abtiga, markaad isku dhex yaaci jirtay baa la gaadhay. Awoowe waxba surwaal gaab ha iska kaaya dhigin ee sheekooyinkaagii sakhiif-ka ahaa ee Fartuun faydan iyo Cambara luul isaga noqo taasaad ku fiicnayd ee. Meesha cayaayir iyo caruurnimo lagagama baahna ee tartiibso, adeer.

It's funny how the faithful always rationalize the skepticisim of one their own. Oh, she was never religious to begin with. Oh, she never studied Islam properly. Oh, she's just an evil, confused, grudge-bearing shrew. Rabble will always be rabble, preferring insolent remarks to intelligent conversation. I suppose contemplation just requires too much mental exertion, too many brain cells.

^ Speaking of the issue of haughtiness, I think the correlation between education and religiosity has been studied adequately. Less educated - and by extension, less intelligent - persons are more likely to be religious than their well-educated (presumably more intelligent) counterparts. One study conducted at 21 elite US colleges and universities found that 60% of the professors said they were nonbelievers (either atheist or agnostic), yet 82% of the American public profess a belief in one diety or another. Surely, other factors are pertinent to this huge statistical difference. However,as one academic put it, "I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical" Gabadhu waxeedu kibir maaha ee malaha waa waxbarasho iyo caqli siyaaday.

Whether you disagree with her or not, you can't help but admire her intellectual integrity; her ability to think for herself freely, using all the tools of her education and experience to think through such questions. Bravo for her.

Good riddance.

Originally posted by Norfsky: Kuwa ku la murmaayaan la yaabey anigu. Waar ninku waa scriptkii la sheegi jirey dee. loooool. Maantoo dhan safiih bay la doodayaaan oo su'aalo weydiinayaan. Soomaalidu waa ummad wareersan. Anuu Kashafaan doonayay inaan eego wuxuu yidhaahdo.

Muslinimo nimaan kugu wadayn muuminnimo khaasa Gaal maxasta kuu dhawra ood magansataa dhaama Inuu af qalaad ku qora baa xitaa ku adag Ibn Al-Faacilah. I bet this miserable miscreant who supports extremists like Al-Shabaab lives in the West. Whenever he's not conducting his cabbie and cleaner duties, he's on SOL - vainglorious and unhinged - frothing in a fit of sadism.

Tragic, indeed. Do these SOL terrorist-sympahtizers really believe that such carnage and destruction visited upon innocent civillians is excusable on religious grounds? How could one seriously continue to support such a fanatic, blood-thirsty organization? Maaddeey waa iska safiih ee kii yaraa ee Kashafa oo digdigta badnaa mee?