Originally posted by Oodweyne: Thankful , So now UCL and Progressio are one with Somaliland's attempt to hoodwink where election took place and where not, heh, dear lad ... What a desperate simply gamble on your part, dear lad, this is. Please read the report, for it says they were three group independent of each other. And, secondly, the Somaliland UK Diaspora-based community, could not be classified as a "international observers" . But, on the contrary, as a local ones only. Hence, the international observers are the ones that come from other countries that has no relationship with Somaliland. And they are 59 observers that comes directly under Dr. S. Kibble's group on one hand, and 19 strong from the IRI . Hence, when Progressio and UCL says they have went in to all "six regions" as well as Somaliland UK Diaspora-based community, it means, we, as the "international observers" went those regions to witness that presidential election. And we were also there in conjunction with the trained "local election observers" , such as various indigenous one, in which Somaliland UK based Diaspora-based community will also come under it, indeed. I am absolutely amassed that yoy do not know the first thing about the definition of "International observer mission" . Since, local population can't be classified as such thing in the first place, even, if they are nominally resident in "foreign-countries" . Which rules out anything to do with Somaliland Diaspora-based community being classified as a "international observer mission" in the first place. Particularly if you want your final report to be credible as an "independent report" , indeed. And, finally, I must say, that, you really are a price-less and hopeless pedantic ( if you don't mind me say so, indeed ). Since if you really want to pick a bone in here, then the last thing you ought to have done would be to say that those Somalilanders from UK are also in part and parcel of the observer international mission, given that it's clear that they were meant to be the local guidance for the said international mission in the first place, Whilst, at the same time others such as IRI and Dr. Steve Kibble's group were meant to be the real "International observer mission" , indeed... But, then, it just dawn on me about now that the likes of you, as well as the like Xiiny before you, are basically arguing for argument sake, indeed. And, you have no scintilla of a decent hand to which to detain others with. All in all, I think I need to stop in here. For I have done far more justice to what, in essence, your silly line of arguments warrant in the first place from anyone. Hence, unless you have some earth-shattering meaty argument of the kind we haven't seen it from your hands previously, then, I consider this post to be my last contribution towards this sort of discussion pertaining to the composition of the "international observer mission" . And, in particularly, where part of Somaliland have they visited it, in the course of their mission, indeed.... Regards, Oodweyne. Please stop speaking recklessly and with no facts. You may have your own opinions on things but do not present your own idea's on how things should work as fact. Yes, the NW Somalis diaspora who are citizens of foreign nations are considered international observers. You see, according to Somaliland Focus (UK), NW Somalia's Diaspora are considered part of the international observers. Here is a link you might want to view where they interview several members of the International Election Observation (IEO), which 2 of them men they interviewed where from NW Somalia orginally. NW Somalia Focus The first individuals name is: 1. Yusuf Ali, British Somali scholar living in the UK, IEO Member: and the second person is 2. Said Jama, 66 year old Somali scholar based in London, IEO Member. . Both these men are members of the International Election Observers. Proving once again that you are being reckless with the truth when you say that "Somaliland UK Diaspora-based community, could not be classified as a "international observers". But, on the contrary, as a local ones only." Do you realize they hold citizenship from a foreign country? And that the NW Somalia enclave citizenship is not recognized by the entire international communty? Al Jazeera You might want to watch this video from Al Jazeera, where it states that international observers are "relying on NW Somalia's returing diaspora to monitor polling stations in far flung regions." Anyways, I agree we might as well end this. You are obviously being hard headed.

Originally posted by Oodweyne: Mr. Thankful , Here is Dr. Steve Kibble and his Progressio organisation, which was "designated" as the official leader of the "international observer mission" to the recently concluded Somaliland's presidential election, and what they have to say about your silly argument: quote: A Press Release From Progressio , The three organisations were invited in January 2009 by Somaliland’s National Electoral Commission (NEC) to act as coordinators of the international observation mission for the election in the internationally-unrecognised republic. In the event, 59 international observers visited polling stations in all six Somaliland regions , working alongside a group of 19 observers from the US-based International Republican Institute. ******** Source :- http://www.progressio.org.uk/blog/news/somaliland-elections-peaceful-expression-popular-will You link shows that Dr. Steve Kibble and his Progressio worked with the 2 other Organisations which are the Development Planning Unit of University College London (UCL) and Somaliland Focus (UK), the latter having a clear mission of promoting the secessionists agenda in Somalia. As well One World In the week since the team assembled in Hargeisa (comprising 59 individuals from 16 countries, including diaspora Somalilanders ) much work has been done. The teams have met the incumbent president and the two opposition candidates to hear points of view on the progress towards polling day where all three candidates pledged to accept the result of the poll. Well you fail to mention that, of those international observers that made up Progressio's, UCL and Somaliland Focus (UK) team. Diaspora NW Somalis are also included as international observers. So I wonder, is NW Somalis from European countries, and N.America being counted by the country they came from? Also, are they the international observers that allegedly went ot Sool and Sanaag? As well the link you provided said that they worked along side a group of 19 observers from the International Republican Institute. (Which we know from your other link that IRI stated they did not have any international observers outside of the 4 cities.) the event, 59 international observers visited polling stations in all six Somaliland regions, working alongside a group of 19 observers from the US-based International Republican Institute." The IRI is the only observer group that clearly addresses where their international observers went, where as Progressio does not, they only say that their international observers included Diaspora NW Somalis. So when you produce the reports from Progressio and the two other organizations that show high turnouts from Sool and Sanaag, remember that their international observers included NW Somalis! Despite all this, still no photographs or video's from all the regions.

Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: Xaaji = Cowke ,,,, wat do u expect? LOOOL

Originally posted by Oodweyne: ^^^ The international observer did went into all regions of Somaliland; and when they finally produced their tabulated reality, you will see the lies you are peddling in here, indeed, dear lad . But, then, again, I am not surprised that you are acting in this way. IRI link Seriously Oodweyne even though I have evidence that contradicts what you say, I will not call you a liar. However, will you continue to say things you know for a fact are not true? Do you actually think you can convince people something when there is clear evidence contradicting what you say? For instance you said this "International" observers did went into all regions of Somaliland?? Well let me quote a thread that YOU started. Which clearly shows that what you are saying is not correct. IRI also partnered with the local nongovernmental organization Social Research and Development Institute to train and deploy six domestic observer teams that gave IRI a broader coverage in areas where INTERNATIONAL OBSERVERS COULD NOT MONITOR. The DOMESTIC teams monitored voting and ballot counting at more than 70 polling stations in Ainaba, Baligubadle, Las Anod, Lug-haya, Odweine, Salaxley and Zeila. As you see, only domestic teams went to these cities and towns, according to your article. The Foreign teams according to YOUR article ONLY WENT TO: The delegation also included representatives from the Czech Republic, Kenya, Nigeria, Norway, Sierra Leone, Serbia, Spain and the United States. The group observed voting and ballot counting at more than 70 polling stations in four cities – Berbera, Borama, Burao and Hargeisa. So again, 1) you tried to paint me as peddling lies, however I have used your own articles against you from the IRI that cleary shows that what you said about international observers going to all regions of NW Somalia as incorrect. 2) When those numbers do come out from Sool and Sanaag from your local observers, I assure you that they will be favorable towards your enclave. We both know they are not neutral and have their motives for presenting a favorable view of the elections. So next time you want to accuse people of lying, you need to make sure your evidence is solid. Which I have clearly proved is not.

The observers only went within the Bebera, Burco, Hargeysa and Riyaale's base of Borama. Therefor yes the elections were fair in only those 4 places. They did not go to Sool or Sanaag, which makes up the majority of their supposed land mass, nor did the president campaign in those area's. They want to provide pics from the triangle and video's but when it comes to Sool and Sanaag they want us to take their word that campaigning took place there and that there was higher voter turn out as well. So no, I think the PR War was completely won. The the NW Somalia enclave was finally proven to be only in control of a small particular area.

You can definitely expect the Arab League to strengthn their opposition to the secessionists.

Notice how they said Eastern Sanaag, but not eastern Sool.....this is precisely what I was talking about and why I believe their is a lack of pictures and video compared to the triangle. Relief Web Observers say breakaway Somali region vote was fair Source: Reuters - AlertNet Date: 28 Jun 2010 * Ninety percent of votes counted - electoral body * International observers say poll met standards By Hussein Ali Noor HARGEISA, Somalia, June 28 (Reuters) - The presidential election in Somalia's breakaway republic of Somaliland was free and fair, international observers said on Monday. More than one million people voted on Saturday in Somalia's separatist northern enclave that is seeking international recognition as a sovereign state. "Despite some irregularities, the election process was fair, free and expressed the will of the people. We are looking to a speedy and clear result that is accepted by all the parties," Conrad Heine, an observer from Britain, told reporters. Three candidates stood in the election that opposition leader Ahmed Mohamed Silanyo is expected to win, ousting Dahir Rayale Kahin, who has been in office for nine years. A former British colony, Somaliland declared independence from Somalia in 1991, but has not been recognised internationally despite its relative stability and the establishment of democratic institutions. Over the same period, anarchic Somalia has been subject to continuing violence that has claimed the lives of tens of thousands. International monitors however said they were concerned at complaints by the Somaliland opposition blaming the incumbent president's ruling party for using public funds, state media and vehicles for its campaign. Some residents in disputed areas along Somaliland's border with Puntland, a semi-autonomous enclave, refused to vote. Militia supporting Puntland raided polling stations, killing four people and seizing ballot boxes. "The unwillingness of portions of the electorate to participate in the polls in Sool and East Sanag was a matter of concern," Hein said. But he said that the election had met the criteria required. The International Republican Institute (IRI), a U.S.-based group which monitors elections, said the vote was peaceful, without major incident and generally met international standards. IRI cautioned the political parties and the public against jumping to conclusions before the final result is announced. "Election day is only one part of a larger and longer four part process, which includes the pre-election environment, pre-election administration, election day voting, and vote counting and post-election adjudication resulting in acceptance of a legitimate result," it said in a statement. The National Election Commission chairman, Essa Yusuf Mohammed, told reporters that most of the votes had been counted, except those cast in the capital Hargeisa, but declined to comment on early results. "Until now, ninety percent of the votes have been counted. We are waiting for Hargeisa to finish soon," he said. (Writing by Abdiaziz Hassan; Editing by Giles Elgood) For more humanitarian news and analysis, please visit www.alertnet.org

source?

I didnt think you would be this upset Oodweyne at the sight at our people celebrating a monumental time in our nations history. Especially the large sign of support among the younger generation who will carry on the legacy and hopefully try and fix the situation back home. I can take a guess from your other posts the thing that is irking you the must is the presence of Minnesota Senator Al Franken and his flag waving. What does it matter to you if you dont even consider yourself part of this country that people are celerbrating? Are you seriously concerned for them because you feel they are wasting their time? No, you want them to give up hope and you definitely dont want any U.S government reps celebrating with them aswell. Because Riyaale was shut out every time he visits the U.S who makes their position known everytime that they will not recognize your enclave. One big influence I am sure in their reasoning to hold this position is the strong support for Somalia that is in the U.S. among Somalis who then pressure their elected representatives. You want everyone just to stay quiet dont you?

I think the U.S made it crystal clear that the issue is not there's and NW Somalia needs to bring it up with the AU.

Xaaji his topic said "Topic: Thailand To Invest 700 Million Euro Into Puntland Fishery Industry" That is Euro!! Cowke, I do not think the Istanbul pledge will ever materialize. Plus the promises made was with the President Sharif, he was the representitive for Somalia. People are reluctant to make deals with the enclaves, because the TFG is the only recognized government. But lets be realistic, 700 million Euro is absolutely impossible. You should know that.

But do you actually think it is even possible they would invest 1 billion usd? Come on

Cowke, Use your common sense, do you actually think Thailand would invest over a billion U.S into the Puntland fisheries? Stop with these nonesense articles which are completely ridiculous.

What's happening in this picture?? Is that someone associated with you Oodweyne raining in on the party?

Xaaji and all the rest of the NW Somalis, now photo's like this is what I am talking about! Indisputable evidence of the support that people have. You did it within the triangle but no where else. Maybe you didn't because you couldn't as the lines were too small. Anyways let me not take away from the topic, these are amazing pictures, it's nice to see that so many still have hope, especially among the younger generation.

In other words, if, god forbid, Somaliland were as crisis-prone and politically dysfunctional as Somalia currently is, Somaliland, which is more tribally homogenous than the rest of Somalia AFP I think this article makes it clear why NW Somalia is not as "crisis prone."

Of course it's just talk. Because I call nonesense when you insist on just showing tons and tons of clear pics from the triangle and video's. But you want us to take the word of the 800 local election officals you have. If you are going to just cover the tribal triangle with so many pics and video's, then cover the rest of the places!

Oodweyne, it was interesting. Because there are extensive video's and pics or huge rallies when he was in the triangle, with him standing at the mirco-phone speaking to the crowd and rallying his supporters. Yet, suprisingly there was none of this in Lasaanood. That's has always been my point, why so much coverage from the triangle? During campaigning and election day? But I will give you guys full credit if Riyaale doesn't win, and you exchange power peacefully! There is no doubt in my mind he will win, but lets just saying he might lose, I doubt he will leave quietly.

JB show me where I said that! You remember when you quoted me as saying that I would give Riyaale credit if he went to Lascaanood to campaign! Which he didnt Libaahe, anyways I've said it before that Ilko-Jiir can't go there, the places that election boxes go to are not under Puntland control, including Erigavo. I wont write about this anymore, until I see convincing pics like the huge numbers of people from the triangle.

What's the population of erigavo? 100,000 to 180,000?? Plus you need to factor in the surrounding rural area's where people will most likely come to the city to vote. Of those how many of them are of voting age? Tens of Thousands atleast???? Yet, these are the pics you send me from Erigavo? I am expecting for a city of that size, multiple polling stations with huge line-ups. I am expecting the same coverage as you have in the triangle! The video's coming out of Saaxil and Hargeysa. Well I spoke enough on it, I was hoping to open a thread that finally had pictures similar to the triangle, yet they are obviously not coming. The lack of coverage has led me to believe that maybe turnout was so poor because people there have no one representing them in the elections. I also think these area's will suspiciously vote in high numbers in favor of Riyaale and get him re-elected!

Who the 75 international Observers? I wonder how many of the 75 remained in the triangle and how many of them are relying on the "local observers" for information? Anyways, like I said pics and video's that are in abundance coming out of the triangle are irrefutable. You're reliance on observers who 800 of the 875 are local ones, won't cut it!!! VOA Somaliland Poised for Much-Delayed Presidential Somaliland Votes Saturday Somaliland Prepares for Presidential Polls After repeated delays, the breakaway republic of Somaliland will hold its second presidential election in eight years on Saturday. International observers and analysts are expressing cautious optimism that the poll could set a positive example for the troubled region. Eight hundred local observers and 75 international observers are fanned out across Somaliland to monitor the presidential poll. Slightly more than one million people are registered to vote and voter turn-out Saturday is expected to be around 75 percent. Speaking from Somaliland's capital Hargeisa, the joint coordinator for the international observer group, Michael Walls, says he has been impressed by the level of public enthusiasm and by the transparency of the electoral process. "There inevitably are a few problems or complaints. But really, in terms of the overall picture, things look very good," said Walls. "The electoral commissioners were changed and the new commission has exceeded everyone's expectations in terms of their competence and integrity. The surprise from my point of view has been to see how smoothly the campaigning has been running and there seems to be more of a carnival atmosphere amongst party supporters." Wall's assessment is in stark contrast to the situation in Somaliland in 2009. At this time last year, there was rising concern that this election, which was originally scheduled to take place in April 2008, might not be held at all. An election set for September 27 was scrapped after a bitter disagreement over the registration process nearly plunged Somaliland into violence. The political stand-off pitted incumbent President Dahir Riyale and his ruling United People's Democratic Party against two leading opposition parties - the Development and Solidarity Party (Kulmiye) headed by Ahmed Mohamed Mahamoud Silanyo and the Justice and Welfare Party (UCID) led by Faisal Ali Warabe. The crisis was defused through a number of donor-funded measures, including setting up a new, independent election commission. Political parties also agreed to campaign on alternate days to avoid confrontations. U.S.-based Africa analyst J. Peter Pham says a peaceful and well-conducted election could significantly boost Somaliland's long-held argument that the territory is politically mature and stable, and vastly removed from the turmoil and violence witnessed in central and southern Somalia. "Irrespective of who wins, a transparent, free, and fair election dispels the myth that all of Somalia is in this primordial chaos," he said. "It is possible that (good) governance can happen and can emerge. It would also be a wonderful sign for the entire region. We are in a region where holding a free, transparent and fair election is somewhat of a challenge." Political analyst and author Iqbal Jhazbhay adds that a transparent, credible poll is also important to Somalilanders, who view it as being crucial to the territory's efforts to win international recognition. Somaliland unilaterally declared independence from the rest of Somalia in 1991. But despite the establishment of democratic institutions, it is still considered by most of the world as being part of Somalia. In recent years, the territory has supported closer ties with the West in the hope that it will bring international recognition of its independence. "In my latest book on Somaliland, I make the point that one of the domestic disciplining forces is this national craving and desire to have international recognition," he said. [in] many of the meetings held between political party heads and foreign observers here in Somaliland, this issue does come up. There is no doubt that holding of this election will help its [somaliland's] case. It is a question of how fast this process would unfold." The African Union would have to be the first international organization to extend recognition to Somaliland. But the pan-African body has been reluctant to do so for fear it could spark aggressive secessionist movements in other parts of the continent. There is opposition against recognition among Somalis, too, who regard Somaliland as an integral part of the country. The most violent opposition comes from al-Shabab, the al-Qaida-linked extremist group that aims to unite all of Somalia and beyond under an ultra-conservative branch of Islam. On Thursday, al-Shabab's top leader Ahmed Abdi Godane issued a warning against holding democratic elections, which he claimed was un-Islamic. Godane, who hails from Somaliland, is believed to have planned the October 2008 near-simultaneous suicide car bombings in Hargeisa and Bosasso, Puntland, which killed and wounded dozens of people.

Oodweyne is there anyone at your level in your imaginery world or are you the undisputed king?

Beer-Gaal, I've given up on these guys. I am expecting them to produce the same amount of pictures they do for the triangle then they did for the places outside of it. But my question remains.....why are there so many pictures and video from the tribal triangle (which makes a small fraction of their alleged state) but very few pics and no video's from the rest?

France24 Somaliland votes to bolster separatist aspirations Voters in Somaliland, a breakaway territory in northern Somalia, defied warnings from the Islamist Al Shabaab group by casting ballots in a presidential poll they hope will bolster their aspirations for a separate, internationally-recognised state. By News Wires (text) AFP - The self-proclaimed state of Somaliland voted for a new president Saturday in a poll threatened by Islamist insurgents but seen by many voters as a stepping stone towards statehood. The northern territory has been more stable than Somalia since it broke away in 1991 but a message warning voters to stay home by the leader of the Al-Qaeda-inspired Shebab movement drew draconian security measures. "All our country's forces are locking the borders. Movements and transport inside Somaliland are also forbidden except for those authorised by the national election commission (NEC)," police chief Mohamed Saqadi Dubad said. Voting wrapped up at 6:00 pm (1500 GMT) with no reports of any violence or fraud, said Abdulrahman Mohamoud, who was in charge of the largest polling station in Hargeisa. Somaliland, which is more tribally homogenous than the rest of Somalia, has been striving for international recognition for almost two decades and many voters saw the election as a fresh opportunity to demonstrate their aspiring state's democratic credentials. In the capital Hargeisa, queues started forming in the middle of the night, hours before polling stations opened, amid tight police and army scrutiny. "I will travel to my polling station now and sleep there," said Ismail Maalin Mohamoud, a tailor, as he prepared to set off late Friday. "I want to vote for Kulmiye," he said. Kulmiye, which won the largest number of seats in the latest parliamentary elections, is the party of Ahmed Mohamed Silaanyo, seen as President Dahir Riyale Kahin's main rival in Saturday's poll. The Justice and Welfare party is the country's third parliamentary force and its leader Faisal Ali Warabe the other top contestant. Official results are not due for another week but a victor is expected to emerge over the next few days as partial results start trickling in. Earlier this week, overall Shebab leader Ahmed Abdi Godane, a native of Somaliland, issued an audio message warning the breakaway state's population that they would "face the consequences" if they cast their ballot. "Do we say yes to Allah and accept his ruling or follow the infidels who want to lead us in the path of the evil?", Godane said. Somaliland has strong ties with Shebab arch-foe Ethiopia. The territory's unilateral secession from the rest of the country is also a challenge to the nationalistic vision of a unified Somalia essential to some of the Shebab's Somali leaders. It also upsets the ideology held by Somalia's western-backed President Sharif Sheikh Ahmed who congratulated the people of Somaliland for their peaceful election in a radio broadcast but urged them to "keep the unity of Somalia in mind". Saturday's vote has little direct impact on Somaliland's efforts to become independent but breaking away definitively from its troubled neighbour appeared to be the prime motivation for most of the voters queuing up at polling stations Saturday. "I'm voting for the opposition Kulmiye party. If they are given the mandate to govern Somaliland, they may bring international recognition to our declaration of independence," said 21-year-old Nasir Mohamoud. Mohamed Abdullahi Barud explained he was growing impatient with the world's reluctance to recognise Somaliland. "Western countries are hypocrites and colonial-minded... They want to unite us with neighbouring Somalia but that would be like attempting to restore the Soviet Union," he said. The responsibility to recognise Somaliland as a sovereign state is considered to be the African Union's but the continental body has been very wary of setting a precedent.

I went online looking for it, I want to find out. I am not there so I can not say with certainty, I just find it strange that there are pics and video's of huge lines in the triangle but then other places they seem fishy. Hargeysa The triangle has crystal clear video and pics of huge line-ups, the rest, blurry. Qudac said that THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS voted, I am yet to see this outside of the triangle.