The UN now talks glibly about restoring the Somali state and holding elections. This is the way to continue the war, not end it. Political parties in Somalia are little more than a cover for clans so an election simply elevates one clan over the others. Allow the government in Mogadishu to run the city and port, perhaps the Benadir region, but no further. Any attempt to create a powerful Somali state will ensure the civil wars will continue. That is especially true of Somaliland where the feeling against the south is still very bitter. Reunification with the south is unanimously opposed. Not a single Somalilander I know wants reunification. Not a single Somali from the rest of the country wants Somaliland to stay independent Unless we are very careful, peace in the south of Somalia will mean war in the north. Probably the most ridiculous article I have ever read! So basically Somalia cannot have a centralized government based in Mogadishu or it will lead to war. So the only option is to have dozens and dozens of mini-states.

Jacaylbaro;752802 wrote: Kenya Advances ku lahaa ............. still they did not face a single bullet from anyone. Please with the secessionist opinion. Without a doubt the Hargeysa enclave are the ones that are most worried about Al Shabaab's defeat. Because they use to say that the TFG only controlled a few streets. However the Hargeysa admin has lost that argument because now the whole city is in it's control. The secessionists are most worried because the TFG is given more and more land each day which leads to more international legitimacy. We have seen this by the Turkish PM visit! Yunis, If Al Shabaab can't get Mogadishu back and it is the most important city and biggest city. What makes you think they can possibly hold and get back Kismaayo?

Look, this article is an opinion piece that is giving the authors 'prognosis'. I understand what he is saying and my opinion differs. I believe that we can use tangible evidence here. Let's look at Mogadishu who is a prime example of what the TFG - aided by the AU - can accomplish. We have seen Turkish humanitarian center's opinion and students being flown out for the chance of more education, as well teh city is slowly being rebuilt. The key here is that we are being reconnected with the international community. The only real obstacle is Al Shabaab! I do not believe this operation to push Al Shabaab out of thes areas will block aid from coming to these places and in fact - just like Mogadishu - humanitarian facilities will start opening up and foreign aid workers will be allowed to return. Al Shabaab regions are some of the most fertile lands in Somalia, they were the agricultural heart of the nation. Yet once Al Shabaab took over, we have seen that these are the only places that the effects of the drought are strongest. As we remember Al Shabaab kicked out aide agencies and accused them of being spies, which caused the death toll to rise enormously.

It appears that Al Shabaab has learned from past mistakes and realizes that they cannot hold ground against a conventional army. Sadly it appears that they will blend in with the population and continue their cowardly attacks.

MOGADISHU, Somalia — Kenya intends to push its troops to Somalia's insurgent stronghold of Kismayo and will stay until there are no Islamist insurgents left, a Kenyan military spokesman said Thursday, as the militants were pushed back on two fronts by pro-Somali government forces supported by foreign troops.[ "We are going to be there until the (Somali government) has effectively reduced the capacity of al-Shabab to fire a single round ... We want to ensure there is no al-Shabab," Kenyan military spokesman Maj. Emmanuel Chirchir told The Associated Press. "We want to destroy all their weapons." He said troops have secured a foothold in Ras Kamboni, a town 2 miles (3 kilometers) from the Kenya-Somalia border, and that al-Shabab militants left the town before the Kenyans arrived. Abdinasir Serar, a senior commander with the pro-government militia, confirmed Ras Kamboni had changed hands. The town is where al-Shabab's forerunner, the Islamic Courts Union, made its last stand in the face of an Ethiopian advance in 2007. "This provides a vantage point for us to clear al-Shabab and pirates from the Somali coast in Kismayo," Chirchir said. "Al-Shabab is in disarray." His words were the clearest statement yet of Kenya's intentions after it sent troops into Somalia last weekend. Kenya said it was retaliating for a series of raids by Somali gunmen who have attacked and abducted foreigners from Kenyan territory. Two Spanish aid workers, a cancer-stricken quadriplegic Frenchwoman and an Englishwoman have all been seized in the past six weeks; the Englishwoman's husband was killed in the kidnappers' assault. On Wednesday, the French government announced that the Frenchwoman had died. Kenyan officials have also said they will launch an internal crackdown on Kenyan residents suspected to be helping al-Shabab. "Our security forces have begun operations within and outside of our borders against militants who have sought to destabilize our country," Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki said. Advertise | AdChoices Thursday's speech at Kenya's Nyayo stadium was delivered to nearly empty bleachers — police had locked out thousands of waiting Kenyans after the president arrived, fearing al-Shabab might try to make good on their threats earlier this week to bomb Kenya. On Wednesday, the country's internal security minister said that he was planning to "sweep" the country of any underground al-Shabab sympathizers, a statement that sent ripples of fear through Kenya's Somali-speaking community. Many Muslim and Kenyan-Somali leaders have said they fear their communities may be targeted by security services. Kenyan police are frequently criticized by human rights bodies for corruption and killing or beating civilians. But a lawmaker from a northern constituency sought to reassure Somalis they would not be unfairly detained. "Whatever sweep they are talking about remains an intent. We have advised (the government) to take whatever security precautions they want to take constitutionally, without infringing on people's rights," said parliament member Adan Keynan . "Anything that is targeting one particular community will not be accepted, it will not be tolerated." In the Somali capital, al-Shabab was chased out of the capital's northernmost neighborhood, Deynile, in a dawn offensive, residents said. Somali government troops and African Union peacekeepers took control of the area, which the Islamist insurgency used as an execution ground and as an area for carrying out amputations. "Somali government soldiers and AMISOM are here today and Al-Shabab left," said resident Liban Abdullahi, using a common acronym to refer to the 9,000-strong African Union force of Burundian and Ugandan soldiers. "We wish quiet days will follow, because we were always in trouble living among two warring sides." A police official said government troops had encountered little resistance during their dawn attack. "We have captured the whole district, and the anti-peace elements have fled to the outskirts," said Col. Aden Kalmoy, a Somali military spokesman. Two years ago, al-Shabab held almost all of southern Somalia, and the government was confined to a few city blocks. But the militia has been weakened by a severe drought and famine in its strongholds, a loss of revenue from markets in the capital of Mogadishu, internal divisions and public disgust over their strict punishments, recruitment of child soldiers and indiscriminate bombing. They are also severely outgunned by AU forces. At the same time, the weak U.N.-backed Somali government has been strengthened by foreign backers, including military personnel from Burundi, Uganda and Kenya and financial and logistical support from Italy and the U.S. that means that government soldiers have been regularly paid this year for the first time in more than two decades of civil war. The changes forced al-Shabab to retreat from Mogadishu in August in what its leaders described as a tactical pullout. In response, the militant group has carried out a campaign of suicide bombings. Many have detonated prematurely or been intercepted, including two incidents on Wednesday in which government troops captured a man with explosives, said Lt. Mohamed Nur. A separate roadside bomb killed a man who was trying to plant it, said police official Ali Hassan. The most devastating attack so far was a truck bomb that killed more than 100 people earlier this month. Many were students seeking information about scholarships in Turkey. Now many Somalis are trying to avoid public places or take back roads to avoid possible violence.

Somali Pirate, This is not an invasion so stop calling it this. The TFG supports this, and i'm certain most Somalis do as well. Where are all the protestors? Our Somali spirit is stronger then ever, we know who the enemy is and know what they are doing. They used to control Mogadishu and parade around its streets. Now the leadership and most criminals have fled the city. Mogadishu was liberated and recontruction has begun despite Al Shabaab's cowardly attacks and now slowly but surely the rest of the country will be.

Oh so Western Sahara formally and without force agree to unite with Morocco in the first place and then just decided on their on to leave? It's one thing to be forced into a union and it's another to freely agree to it. Regardless of this, this debate can go on for ever. Siilaanyo's article is very interesting, if he feels these are the criteria's to seek independence. They'll be a long line of area's following! You might no believe it - but obviously after 20 years and not one single country recognizing you - it's obvious they are aware of this as well.

Ok Xaaji. So lets take the TFG out of the equation and consider them as a non-legal entity. I can't speak for President Faroole but from what I see, with the new Puntland flag, songs, banning the TFG officials and meeting members of other governments. It looks like he is leaning towards more autonomy for the state. I am almost certain if your enclave was recognized or even being considered, then Puntland and other area's would follow the exact same route. If these area's started holding so-called elections and others measure set out by the international community, shouldn't they be given the right for independence? The bottom line is this, if your enclave is ever even consider for recognition, then there will be many more area's in Somalia and Africa demanding the same. Somaliland dejure recognition will come from the African states Please, it will never come from African States and you know it! Those African states are coexisting with multiple ethnicities, religions, languages and races. These governments are the number one obstacle to your dreams! Because they know that the flood gates would open within their own borders.

That taboo still claims routine support from many African leaders. And yet Eritrea’s secession from Ethiopia did not lead to other breakaway movements in Africa. Likewise, South Sudan’s peaceful, and internationally supported, separation from Sudan has not led to new calls for Africa’s borders to be redrawn. What ridiculous points to make. All these countries were in bitter wars that were fought for decades. Yet it was only until Ethiopia or Sudan were able to agree on letting the others side go that independence given to them. Now if the counter-argument will be that there is no government in Mogadishu who the secessionists are able to negotiate with - well that is even more reason not allow independence of breakway area's until you have a functioning government. The basic principles that I believe should prevail, and which Somaliland meets, are the following: · Secession should not result from foreign intervention, and the barriers for recognizing secession must be high; · Independence should be recognized only if a clear majority (well over 50%-plus-one of the voters) have freely chosen it, ideally in an unbiased referendum; · All minorities must be guaranteed decent treatment. Whoever Siilaanyo sent this letter to is probably having a really good laugh. To be completely honest without I am almost certain this has nothing to do with the NW Somali leader. It was probably written by someone claiming to be him. It has to be! Can you imagine if all you needed was "well over 50%-plus-one of the voters and all minorities be guaranteed decent treatment (whatever that means)"? I guarantee to you if it was this easy President Faroole and other regional leaders could persuade their populations to seek independence. With the help of influencial people, elders and the diaspora I am certain many areas in Somalia could meet this ridiculous criteria. Everyone could just by pass the TFG. Fortunately, the AU, UN and U.S (who has veto power) have made it clear. The decision must be agreed upon by both sides. It quite obvious that this is the only way to avoid a domino effect.

Faarax-Brawn;752348 wrote: are you out of your bloody mind? what the fck is wrong with somalida? urgh!!! Look, i hate AL shabab. I despise those killers. But to suggest that, it is ok for a foreign country to invade your country is INSANE. Your logic is actually illogic. Look, we ve been thru this road not so long ago. Ethiopia was a failed experiment...Kenya can not and will not be able to solve the issue of Somalia by invading it. Period. It is wrong. it is ill informed and it will fail. If you want to talk logic then fine - let's forget about Al Shabaab. Is it fair to say that Somalis crossed from Somalia into Kenya and kidnapped people? If so, that is an act of war! A country is completely justified in neutralizing the threat against their nation. If the TFG is too weak to do it and no other force can prevent people from crossing into Kenya, then Kenya has the right to take matters into their own hands. They dont need to give warnings or ask for permission either.

I guess it is just a coincidence that the area's that Al Shabaab controls in the south has some of the most fertile land in Somalia, yet, this is where the worst famine occurred in decades. It is quite clear they played a role in this. If your argument is that a coalition of Kenyan and TFG forces will cause more problems, well I dont agree with that. I believe the sooner Al Shabaab is addressed the quicker we can get humanitarian aid to the poor and protect them. Things can't get any worse.

Look I think we can agree that people were kidnapped from Kenya and brought to Somalia (whether Al Shabaab or not). Even though I am not sure if this has been 100% confirmed. I really doubt any country in the world would not react in a similar way. Also, I know I am not alone, because the TFG seems to support this action. They are in control of Mogadishu now and can regain cities further south. Is there legitimate objections to this? By all means. If Kenya doesn't play this right and works with the TFG, this will all back fire. As well, Al Shabaab may try and use this as a recruiting tool, however, I believe that the unbelievable attack in Mogadishu has single handedly turned millions of people against them. Al Shabaab's war crimes - which include kicking out aid agencies which has caused unbelievable suffering - are extremely important and can never be over-stated. They allowed their people to starve! Just picture yourself living in those area's. This is about public opinion and I am not seeing the same condemnation and protests as you would expect. I believe this is because people are fed up with them.

Guarantee no one would be saying this if they were living back home. Of course because you are living in your nice coushy western country and not having to worry about standing in a line up and being blown up, you dont mind if Al Shabaab goes around killing people. I believe foreign intervention is working in Mogadishu - despite Al Shabaab's constant war crimes. The capital was safe enough to welcome the Turksish PM, who in turn has done incredible humanitarian work. If Al Shabaab remains the way that it is, they will continue to kill our people like they did in Mogadishu. I will not stop mentioning this - they attacked students for wanting more education.

Al Shabaab's key recruiting tool is manipulating the minds of young men and making them think that they are fighting for religion. They are so good at it, they can convience someone to attack students who want tonly to attend school. More so, the just held a news conference and bragged about sending young men to their deaths by way of suicide bombing. (Of course the leadership aren't the ones crazy enough to do it.) I will not fall victim to this kind of brainwashing. Al Shabaab kills with no regard for human life. President Sharif knows the leadership of this criminal organization well and I dont see him condemning this military action.

Kenya Troops Advance in Somalia, May Push to Kismayo October 18, 2011, 10:56 AM EDT http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-18/kenya-troops-advance-in-somalia-may-push-to-kismayo.html By Sarah McGregor (Corrects to say that Foreign Minister Moses Wetangula attended the Mogadishu meetings rather than Internal Security Minister George Saitoti in fourth paragraph.) Oct. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Kenyan troops advanced deeper inside Somalia and may target the port of Kismayo in their drive to thwart attacks by the Islamist militant group al-Shabaab, a defense department spokesman said. The Kenyans and forces loyal to Somalia’s Western-backed transitional government have secured the towns of Tabda and Afmadow, which is about 120 kilometers (75 miles) east of the Kenyan border, Emmanuel Chirchir said today by phone from the Kenyan town of Garissa. Heavy rains have slowed the troops’ advance, he said. “The next town is Kismayo,” he said. “The troops are ready for anything. If it takes us to December they are willing to celebrate Christmas there.” Kenyan Defense Minister Yusuf Haji and Foreign Affairs Minister Moses Wetangula flew to Mogadishu, the Somali capital, today for talks with President Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed on the military operation, Kenyan government spokesman Alfred Mutua said phone. “Both the Somali government and Kenya government will collaborate to act against terrorist elements,” Suldaan Farshiid, a spokesman for the Somali presidency, said today by phone. “Kenya will assist logistically the Somali troops.” Al-Shabaab Retaliation Al-Shabaab vowed today to resist the Kenyan forces. “They attack us by air and on the border; we must unite and fight back until we clear our territory,” a leader of the Islamist movement, Sheikh Hassan Abdulahi Hersi, said in a voice recording on Radio al-Furqaan, a station that supports al- Shabaab. “The Kenyan government will lose many people and assets because of its intervention in our territory.” Kenyan soldiers entered Somalia on Oct. 16 after the kidnapping of foreign tourists and aid workers in Kenya that officials blame on al-Shabaab, which has pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda. Kismayo would be a key target because control of the port gives Al-Shabaab revenue and access to shipping lanes. Somalia, on Kenya’s northern border, hasn’t had a functioning government, police force or court system since the 1991 overthrow of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre. Al-Shabaab has waged a four-year campaign to remove the transitional administration and controls most of southern and central Somalia. Professional Army “Kenya’s military is one of the more professional militaries in Africa, with particularly close ties with the British, and the U.S. has helped as well,” Thomas Cargill, assistant head of the Africa Program at the Chatham House research group, said today from London. “They are as well equipped as anyone in Africa, outside of South Africa and Angola.” About 9,000 Ugandan and Burundian soldiers form the African Union-led peacekeeping force in Somalia. U.S.-backed Ethiopian forces invaded the country in December 2006 to oust the Islamist government that had captured southern Somalia. Deteriorating security along the Kenya-Somalia border was highlighted by the Oct. 13 kidnapping of two foreign aid workers from the medical group Medecins Sans Frontieres by armed men from Somalia at a refugee camp in northeastern Kenya. Somalis fleeing famine and war have poured across the border this year and Kenya now hosts 590,000 United Nations-registered Somali refugees, three-quarters of whom live in the Dadaab complex, the world’s largest refugee facility. Tourist Killed British tourist David Tebbutt was killed and his wife, Judith, was abducted last month at a resort in Kiwayu, 503 kilometers southeast of Nairobi, and is being held hostage in Somalia. On Oct. 1, Marie Dedieu, a 66-year-old disabled French woman, was kidnapped from a house on nearby Manda Island by gunmen from al-Shabaab, Tourism Minister Najib Balala said in a statement posted on his Twitter account. “I don’t think Kenya planned this in a week. They must have done a lot of background, and decided that it was necessary for Kenya to send troops into Somalia,” Ndungu Wainaina, executive director of the Nairobi-based International Centre for Policy and Conflict, said by phone today. The Lamu archipelago, where the incidents took place, is one of Kenya’s main attractions for tourists who generated 73.7 billion shillings ($740 million) for the country last year, the second-largest foreign-exchange earner after tea. The U.K. government changed its travel advice on Oct. 1 to recommend that visitors to Kenya avoid non-essential visits within 150 kilometers of the border with Somalia. Kenya is counting on a tripling of tourists to 3 million a year by 2015 to help achieve its goal of 10 percent economic growth. “This intervention came about because of concerns about external perceptions of Kenya; the tourist industry is very worried because of these kidnappings,” Cargill said. “This is a response intended to try and address those.” --Editor: Karl Maier

Al Shabaab leadership and fighters were chased out of Mogadishu and they will be chased out of all of Somalia's major Southern towns. You shall see! insha'Allah President Sharif will be making a visit to Kismayo by years end.

The forces had crossed from neighbouring Ethiopia into Somaliland - a self-declared republic - two weeks earlier. Xaaji I don't expect you to admit the irony in someone from your enclave accusing others of bringing in Ethiopians. I provided several reports that show that Ethiopians crossed the Somali border. Your unbelievable claim that the people from Buhoodle were the agressors is even more ridiculous. Also, what are you talking revenge from your clan against the mogadishu Community? Need I remind you that both North and South Gaalkaayo were allies in that war. That the Prime Minister at the time (Geedi) was fully supporting the defensive operations?

No matter what anyone says. Al Shabaab just slaughtered their own people, simply because they wanted a chance at education. I think Al Shabaab's barbaric and inhumane attack on young teens and their parents was the last straw among our people back home. Our people have completely seen what Al Shabaab's agenda is and what they think of Somali blood. Just like the citizens are rallying around the AU and TFG forces in Mogadishu who attacked and kicked out Al Shabaab. I believe the same will be done here. Well atleast those that lost love ones during Al Shabaab reign of terror will be against them, that's for sure.

Xaaji Xunjuf;752053 wrote: That was a border clash by the way it was not sool it was the togdheer buhoodle region and the Ethiopians were pushed back to their border no one supported that. By the way what does that have to do with this topic No actually it was not a border clash, Ethiopians entered the territory and killed 13 people after your government accused the SSC of being terrorists. Read the article from your own enclave, the Ethiopians were stationed near by buhoodle. The point of this is that you have no business mentioning others calling in Ethiopians when your own government does the same. At the very least they could have condemned this action.

Xaaji Xunjuf;752009 wrote: Why are you surprised there were Somalis who supported Ethiopia's invasion I didn't see you protest when the secessionist government you support called in Ethiopians to fight in Sool last year. At least 13 people have died in a clash between Somalis and Ethiopian forces who had crossed the border, village elders told the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10140805 SOMALILAND: Ethiopian troops clash with local militia Comments (69) HARGEISA (Somalilandpress) — At least thirteen people were killed and over thirty wounded when Ethiopian troops based in the town of Buhodle clashed with armed tribal militia. http://somalilandpress.com/somaliland-ethiopian-troops-clash-with-local-militia-15767 Why didn't you or your enclave condemn this action?

Lol, the title of this thread should not start with Mudug but rather LONDON: Galmudug and Golgodob siging cooperation agreement I will give this 'meeting' credence when it actually takes place in Somalia. Also, I suspect there is a clear reason why it took place in London.

There was virtually no rebel group that Ethiopia didn't train and fund in order that we attack our own government. So of course they have their own interests. When the ICU came to dominance Ethiopia was only called in when they began brainwashing the youth - like this still are - and began spreading to peaceful areas of the region. But comparing them to Al Shabaab? Please! We just witnessed Al Shabaab admit to killing and disfiguring Somali students who were standing in line with their parents so they can seek more education. And who is Al Shabaab funded by? Where did most of its leadership seek sanctuary in so they could regroup? Eritrea. I know what people will say Ethiopia did this in Mogadishu and Ethiopia did that. However for the TFG, the most important area's of the capital (i.e. the airport and sea port, president’s home) was given to them by Ethiopia/Somali forces. So of course the government will view them as an ally. Is it right or wrong? I don’t know. However, there are many countries that will do everything in their power to ensure that Somalia is never a self-sufficient nation. Ethiopia is definitely one of them, and Eritrea is equally one. Still whatever the truth is, we are witnessing a small group of AU forces and most Somali troops expel Al Shabaab from Mogadishu with the help of the local population. Oh yeah, let’s stop the secessionists bashing of Ethiopia. Need they remember that their SNM used Ethiopia as a base many times and more importantly NW civilians fled to Ethiopia during the war? What about the 300 ONLF that crossed through the enclave recently in which the Hargeysa admin asked Ethiopia to engage them. How quickly you forget! But, history has shown that Ethiopia was not an enemy when you need them.

Both leaders are Harvard Grads and their wives are just as educated. Very inspirational picture.

Fair enough. I won't open the whole Ethiopia debate. I will just say that they were invited by not only the TFG but also the Puntland government. I understand that many are enraged by their intervention, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that there are not equally (if not more) people that celebrated them and other AU military support. I mean anyone fighting Al Shabaab - a group that admits to using bombs loaded with Fuel to burn students - will definitely have support in Somalia. The TFG needs to take every and all aid that is offered. However, most governments would reject an offer from another country that supports a internationally recognized terrorist group.

The Zack;751537 wrote: ^they are giving the aid to the Somali people, nothing to do with politics Lol come on, you can't be serious. Eritrea? A country where many of the top ICU leadership fled and regrouped? As well, the majority of Al Shabaab leadership who left Somalia back in 06 were lived in Eritrea. Even the UN and Countries have blasted Eritrea and threatned them with sanctions including the TFG. Now they want to help Somalia when they support a terrorist group that is trying to destroy us? The people need help and I am not one to deny that. But some of the aid is coming from countries and enclaves who actively try to undermine Somalia's federal government.