3.2 Somalis' parenting experiences in Finland Somalis were asked to comment upon parenting experiences in Finland. They told us that the changes in parental practices were heavy and stressful. The women explained that childcare had become an individual matter and that they had to manage by themselves; a contrast to Somalia where they had help from female relatives and extended family members. For the large majority of Somalis, the changes in parenthood were difficult to cope with. According to some, their children did not listen to them at home any more because they had apparently been told in the schools, and by other government agencies, that they have rights and freedoms and that it is the state that supports them and not their parents. Several parents complained about schoolteachers' and social workers' interference in their children's upbringing. In the interview, two men said this: "The teachers and the social workers should understand that the Somali cultural model of children's upbringing differs from the Finnish cultural model of children's upbringing in the Finnish culture. Let me tell you that, there are many social norms in the Western lifestyle that are conflicting with the Islamic values and are not acceptable by Somalis. In any society it is the parents' responsibility to educate their children and make them understand what is acceptable and what is not. In this logic it is Somali parents to bring up their children and not schoolteachers' and social workers' to do in their behaviour" (males, 48, 52 years). [12]

3. Findings 3.1 Somalis' parenting experiences in Somalia ....... In a similar way, in Somali culture, motherhood was associated with childbirth, childcare and upbringing. With these well-defined gender roles, childcare and upbringing were women's collective duty, where closely-related women helped each other in bringing up the children. Children also had a well-defined natural duty and obligation to the family. Their natural duty was to respect their parents, and their obligations started at a young age with helping the parents at home or outside the house. These obligations were particularly evident amongst those families from an agricultural setting. Daughters helped their mothers with domestic chores and other tasks, whilst sons helped their father on the farm and in taking care of the cattle. In adulthood, children are then supposed to take care of their parents when they reach old age.

I am a Somali man living in London as oppose to an English man in New York, far more important; I am a father to beautiful and intelligent (Masha'Allah! & credit to their mother ) children whom absolutely adore - as any parent should with their children. As the over sensationalised stories of young Somalis in the west up to no good were been discussed on this board and in few different threads for the last couple days - I was pained to see the 'blame the parents brigade' swing into action in every thread unchallenged. "Somali parents this and that" they huffed and buffed, "parents are to blame" they shouted, "where were the parents?" they enquired, "they are collecting xaraam dole" and "they are trying to save a bit of money by living in bad neighbourhoods" they answered themselves and continue to speculate; "they have no class", "no, God is punishing them", etc. the accusations continued..... Save KK(sorry,my fellow Qardhawite) all of the 'blame the parents brigade' have one thing in common -they are not parents. so to qualify their accusations - they threw in the usual line; "but my parents...." - hook, liner and sinker; the unsuspecting mind. Ironic! eh? reminds me of what a wise man once said: "Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children, and no theories" I should stop rambling and state my reason for this thread. After reading some of the accusations level against the Somali parents in the west - i remembered reading while back a research that was carried out in Finland - Titled: Somali Parents' Experiences of Bringing up Children in Finland: Exploring Social-Cultural Change within Migrant Households You Can Read Whole Report - Here - I'll serialise the parts that found interesting below. - It is time that the Somali parents spoke up for themselves :cool:

Ibti - email was long ago - another one sent to you now. hopefully, you'll be able to finish them today. thanks P.S - location does not matter still means the same thing. Hello Juxam -bakoorada la soo orod - you friend is being harangued.

Seeftii Sayidka ba gaalo dhamanwaysaye ....... naga daa dee Che - she is not young - but also she is not dirty minded like you good advice Malika - add: do them in order - i.e. - take plenty of water, food, vitamins and sleep for eat least ten hours - when you wake up - repeat the process.

Ibti - don 't listen to these odayaal iyo dhalinyarada qooqan. BTW - exercise is euphemism for sex!!

Originally posted by cynical lady: Shoga Malika kwajiliyako tu, na macho yako tu...uhuni.com lakini unaenjoy kabisa. wasio fahamu basi tu.= Malika only gay for you, with your eyes just ... hooliganism. Com, but you completely enjoy. then just do not know. :eek: :eek:

^when have you all of sudden developed the misspelling for Qardho?? Have you caught Generalatus?

^ who knew Che was the Awrkii intuu rati ruugay - cabaaday. what ever one pretends to be - they might as well be it. pretence and practicality are the same in my book when it comes to this.

for those of who are worried and supposedly are ashamed of being or even associated with Somalis because of this story and other abhorrent things done by few Somalis - remember - disgusting things like paedophilia, incest and other crimes are rive in other communities more so than they would ever be in the somali community - but that does not mean that we should not be abhorred by this and try to do something - the fact that we are abhorred and are discussing these things shows were we stand. case in point - Teen Girls' Stories of Sex Trafficking in U.S. -International Sex Trafficking Is a Well-Known Problem, But It Happens Here as Well

^^i am neither of those and know no one who ascribes themselves to that - this is a somali site - so pass on by with your raw meat - we do not want it here.

Five Albanian men who made a £2m fortune from trafficking young women into a prostitution ring were today jailed for a total of 63 years. The men were sentenced to up to 18 years each at Southwark crown court, in London, for conspiring to traffic women to Britain for "sexual exploitation". The offence has never before been tried at a UK court. Four brothers - Flamur Demarku, 33, Xhevair Demarku, 29, and Agron and Bedri Demarku, both 22 - and a friend, Izzet Fejzullahu, 32, bought girls from fellow traffickers before forcing them work as sex slaves in seven brothels across west London. Sentencing the gang today, Judge Anthony Pitts said the "family firm" had tricked and betrayed women into selling their bodies. "They were bought and worked effectively for nothing," the judge said. "The outlay in buying them was recouped fairly quickly. The rest was pure profit. "It is necessary to send out a message that people indulging in such a despicable activity cannot be tolerated by a civilised society." Victims of the gang were lured to the UK with promises of work or sightseeing trips, but ended up trapped in the prostitution ring. Many were forced to work round-the-clock shifts, and had to see up to 20 clients a day. The most shocking case uncovered by police was that of a 16-year-old Lithuanian schoolgirl who was invited to London for an all-expenses paid Halloween treat but ended up in brothel in west London, earning thousands of pounds a week for her captors. In another case, a 19-year-old victim had her virginity "sold" to a customer for £40. She had been led to believe she had a job as a barmaid. Hundreds of men had sex with the woman over the following months in what Judge Pitts referred to as "multiple rape". The gang was caught when the schoolgirl's mother reported her missing. The story was picked up by a local Lithuanian TV network and then by the BBC. At one point the gang sent the girl's mother some money to reassure her that her daughter was safe. Police were then able to trace the girl to an address in Hounslow and rescue her. Operation Rotunda, in which officers posed as clients at a number of the Demarkus' brothels to gather enough evidence to convict them, was then launched. Flamur Demarku, of Hounslow, west London, ran the operation with the help of his younger brothers, who lived with him and Fejzullahu, also of Hounslow. They were all last week convicted of sexual exploitation at Southwark crown court. They were also found guilty of conspiring to traffic within the UK, causing their victims to "engage in sexual activity without consent", causing prostitution, controlling it and controlling child prostitution. Sex trafficking gang offered to sell young virgins to wealthy Arabs Guardian - September 2010 Iranians offered girls as young as 14 for up to £150,000 in plot revealed by note left at Knightsbridge hotel

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: Now sxb Taleexi, Taleex, a village I would assume might not have any gays, but I assure there were gays in Xamar, Marka, Barawwe, Kismayo and in general the entire South. that is bold statement to make che - how sure are you and more importantly how did you know there were gays?? have you ever saw one?

^maybe he refuse to eat hilib ceerin ah - i am just speculating

^maybe he refuse to eat hilib ceerin ah - i am just speculating

Originally posted by Gheelle.T: Che and Cawale, what exactly are you expecting the community to do? Community isn't law authority and wouldn't solve our social issues. they can do many things - last being take the law into their own hands and violent deal with those that are ruining their lives. others are *unite in common purpose *elect strong leadership among themselves *integrate into society *start community lead iniatives to deal with wayward youngsters *adopt and foster children who run away *police their own neighbourhoods *run social programmes for chidlren and families *Educate themselves and other about their culture and religion *and no matter what always be unified in their dealings with others as one * etc. etc. etc.

London2010 when did you move from Italy and do you still wear a suit and more importantly why did you move to London - hope it has not anything to do with DSS. Polyani - what happen saxiib - when did you get tried of bariis iyo baasto and joined the suit wearing italians - what happened to the khamiis and the macawis?

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: I didnt want to write the full SOMALI because I don't want anyone who googles this shit to come right on here. I thought I was being clever, no? Mise sidi Xiin baad rabtaa in la qariyo foolxumadan? that is is my name walaalo, just take it out whole name all together. or better yet changed to Malis or even Bladland, Maryooley, etc anything but my name or Somalis

Originally posted by chocolate & honey: Topic: Somal Sex Trafficking in 3 States!! :eek: :eek: :mad: :confused: WTF - quick C&H edit while you - will you! I won't comment on the topic until you do

Agent, stating a fact that I do not disagree with is digression of topic (i.e. Somali world is bigger than just one clan) and therefore is neither here nor there. The subject of this topic and the fact remains that I posted half dozen pictures depicting Somalis from 19th century for my own ulterior motives for which you, like everyone else had no clue about. Then you came along and lambasted these pictures as being “noble savage pornographic” and accused me of being mentally enslaved. Strong charge, wouldn’t you agree?? When I light heartedly pointed it out to you; - that you are not the curator of Somali history and whilst I admire your contributions on this site, but for you to note that there are people who are more knowledge than you with regards to the history and customary laws of Somalis. You threw a hissing fit and made further unfounded and inappropriate remarks. I then engaged you in like manner – but eventually I decided to be the better man and pointed to you where you going wrong with your accusations. Leading to where we are now. Now, in your reply above, given the fact that you have not refuted anything i have said in my preceding post and that fact that you allude to the misapplication of your term in so far as Somalis are concerned, wouldn’t you agree that you are making a mountain out of an anthill?? For the sake of clarity – no one least of all me is denying the fact the Somalis had magnificent history and varied occupations and as I have pointed to you in one of my earlier replies albeit in chest that I came from a region of Somalia where all these things were and are evidently in abundance. Also to clarify to those that are unfamiliar with the term ‘Noble Savage” – The term "noble savage" is defined as being a concept of the natural man, unencumbered by either civilization or divine revelation. Then it evolved into The idea that primitive man is noble and good but becomes evil and corrupted as he becomes civilized as propagated by the earl of Shaftesbury . Agent is right in the sense that the pornographic bit is reference to the earlier inhibants of Americans but the word pornography has not lost its meaning in there, it still refers to sexually explicit and intended to cause sexual arousal. In English, the phrase Noble Savage first appeared in poetDryden's heroic play, The Conquest of Granada (1672): I am as free as nature first made man, Ere the base laws of servitude began, When wild in woods the noble savage ran. The hero who speaks these words in Dryden's play is a Spanish Muslim. So ask gallery (including Agent)– Whether or nor any of the pictures I posted are or can be described as pictures of Noble Savages or Pornographic??

i have not watched the clips yet - but if it is as Ibti describes - either they are lying or they are one fuse short of their light bulb. Ninyaaban - have you been in both to make that call? ibti - what does 'shidhouse' mean?

^^^Understand me, my youngster brother; I apologise, if my teasing of you about the language and culture has gotten the better of you. You are still young and on journey of self discovery and may you long continue that, leading to you eventually mastering of the Somali language, customs and culture. I myself am on a similar journey, which I have embarked upon a long ago. Do not put your self down in an attempt to smear me. Somali warlords are uneducated bunch of morons and even the self titled Drs can not utter whole single sentence in Somali without the insertion of an English word (you would have known that if you have ever listened to them speak on the airwaves). Now, as for two posts that you say are pornographic, I am sorry to disappoint you but that claim of yours - speaks more of your ‘mental enslavement’ (as you would have put it) or your unwittingly corrupted mind (as I would like to put it) than anything else. When you write; “the fact that the posts below are not representative of the wider Somali culture and history” - It is abundantly clear to everyone who knows the Somali culture and history that you are simply; dead wrong. It is well known fact that the Canfars tribes and the Somali Cise clans have the long running history of killing/spearing one another and any other people they came across as testaments to ones’ manliness in comparison to other tribes and clans where ones manliness might be judged on his ability to kill lion alone for example. As for the pelican stand, again that is a tradition of Somali nomad men, who stood and still stand like this, whilst they draw the constellations stars and geometrical shapes on the sands of time with the their sticks. I can only assume the archaic literary use of the words “fonder” (to mean ‘preference’ in this case) and ‘pleasure’ (to mean a form of ‘relaxation’ in this case) has send your polluted mind into whirl – which lead to the conclusion you have reached – obviously in the context that you understand them. Hence the enslaved mentality and/or the corrupted mind remark. There are many mistakes in the pictures I have posted – to give examples – where the Somali dance is referred to as Gallas(Oromo) dance and the connection made between the Harare women and the Somalis – but none of them are of pornographic or ‘noble savages’ as term in its historical use applies. Because Somalis are Muslims and as Islam is accepted as one of the monotheistic religions – therefore the term ‘noble savages’ misapplies.

He has as much of a point as the man who when asked if he would like oranges or apples, replied "give me fish". Further more he had the audacity to claim a moral superiority and revealed his shirt lifters' tendencies when he saw pornography on picture of Somali men war naga daaya damiinkaan iyo dameertiisa

Cawaallow cawaan haygu noqon ciirka indhaha ka saar iyo camanka weynaanta bal markale intaat eegto ciwaanka igu soo celi waxaad cantuugiwayday intaa aadan soo jawaabin - bal ogow soomaali iyo 'pornography' way kale fogyihiin.

JB must be in COBRA like meeting. hence the "The news is just coming and nothing is confirmed bu this is what we are receiving so far"