gramelins problem - no eye rolling here. odeynimada - ciyalnimay kugu celisay KK - tallada waan ka aqbalay. LST - odeyga muxuu ciisa caaq (his equal) ku semay oo ugu qardho ugu caayey?. p.s. your advice is accepted.

^@ ^@ kk post @ LST

I find it very difficult working with normal Somalis, adiguna you want me to work with mental somali patients associated with the Khat and urbanisation Ya salam, I will give that one a miss,idealism or not I am trying to master working with kuwa caadiga ah. apparently it is easier to work mental somalis. they are already aware of the their deficiency.

I endorse the message of A&T - which essentialy says "lets stop hating". Ibti - can i propose "lets make love"

Ngonge However in response to you last paragraph: On the contrary I pray that all the diabolical diatribes that are exchanged in here (by all sides) it is just limited to letting the steam of their sexual frustration and is just way of irking others. I hope for the sake of our continued existence in this planet as Somalis; that all these do not amount to ounce in their belief – because that would tantamount me calling them kaafirs in view of the prophets (PBUH) saying “you are not a Muslim until you love for you brother what you love for yourself”. As for the prideful boasts “those with atoms weight of pride will not enter Jannah”. I am not in the habit of questioning other peoples believes, but I hope for everyone sake that they don’t actually belief any of the nonsense they spew out daily in here.

Peace action - waayahay! Hamse - you hold on to what you perceive to be the clan line and as usual throw insults to anyone who disagrees with you.

that is unfortunate. Habeen Wanaagsan.

talk is cheap indeed - and yes there are reasons as to why i am leaving in the UK and not in anywhere in the somali peninsular. however 'Xikmad Xumo' is not what brought me here. and it disrecpectful of you to say as such. we disagree on certain principles being negotiable or not - it seems to me your away is akin to "the end justifies the means" sort of principle. you could clarify that or you go down the route of insults. the choice is yours.

Paragon - adigu waxaad tahay libaax aan miciya lahayn - liiska waad ku jidhaa. Xidigo - Soomaalidu waa dhadhan fiicanyihiin oo hal calan bey leedahay (xidigtaanu lagu gartaa). - wixii kale waa "landers" Peace Action - aniga nin afxun ima meteloh. wixii afxun ba is metala - waxaan walaaltinimo la wadaga wixii afsuuban leh.

abu salman thanks for trying to explain - my problem is what xiin said and they way he wrote it, which implies a tacit consent for what faroole is doing “to help remove any reasons for Ethiopian displeasure” (remembering the advice of Allah; that this sort of people would never be happy with you until you leave your religion) where as I more worried about the displeasure of Allah, whilst being fully aware of my geopolitical standing and would not be agitating the mutual animosity between me and my enemy nor would I kowtow to them in order to do some imagined ‘strategic positioning” hoping they won’t notice. as for the last paragraph which sounded like it was added for good measure/effect to appear impartial and balanced way of looking things - was in my view best served to payed as lip service to our neighbour rather than our brothers.

Ibti - i for one am glad they denied - as i do not belong or share anything with people who cheer, gloat over and wish for death, distruction, disunity and all kinds of unspeakable illness on their fellow man let alone their closest of kin in blood and faith.

^Spin Doctor?? or should i... i'll take it at face value. Help remove the reasons, justifications, and motives of the relatively powerful nations to prevent the resurgence of semblance of governance in Somalia :confused: enlighten me - i am no politicia nor a liar err.. i mean diplomat. how should i "help remove the reasons, justifications and motives of the powerful" as you put it? - by tap dancing to their requests to torture my believing brother and sisters, by disassociating from them, by capturing for them? or better yet remain silent. ps. i profoundly disagree with the above statement of yours. however i understand the need for somalis to get their act together in order for them actively help the cause of their oppressed brothers and sisters. but whislt their are trying to get their act together - they should not do so at the expense of even one of their siblings let alone more than one.

^what are you two on about? the topic of this thread is no joke.

could all this people be mad clanist or is more likely they are the same two people posting under their multiple and schizophrenic personalities. i hope it is the latter.

i take from the above reply - that you only have problem with number 1. and hence agree with others? in other words you are not denying/contesting those other points? as for your accusation of me having an "agenda's against Puntland" - baseless and my topic is inline with ayat that i have posted - if you are one capable of inference; i am sure you will understand my point. lasty re "enjoying this and hoping that it will be some sort of rallying cry that will cause a war in Puntland" - very far from the thruth; Contradictorily opposite to my real intention.

What are you exactly denying/contesting? 1. That there was story of fluctuating details but nevertheless confirmed (by Gen. Ilkajiir) story of five being detained without being brought before court – one dies in captivate – the minister is unsure of where the one of the said man is now? 2. same time last year 5 Somali guys were arrested in Bossaso and on their way to be transported to garowe (for unknown but suspected reasons) were turn back from Qardho back to Bossaso – never to be heard again what happened to them. 3. Three months before that - incident where 2 men were caught in Garowe and given to an agent of the state of Ethiopia. 4. The arrest of a supposed governor of mudug was taken for questioning by agents of Ethiopia and realised after intervention of his cousin. 5.The fact that a supposed patriotic Somali questions the identity of other Somalis? 6. all of the above?

^that is beside the point - the point is justice or just cause should be the overriding objective here - not your interest of pleasing the bad guy who might come to beat you up if you don't do as he orders.

^how about before that?

How far would you go....? - Till you admit to yourself the crimes committed by your kinsmen? Hell for some

^^ Originally posted by Halyeey 11: duke, this people do not understand politics , puntland should keep its interest at first then comes the others. puntland can not avoid war with ethiopia so it its intereset to have freindly ties with addis to survive in this rough wheather. so atleast puntland can help onlf secretly but not publicly because addis ababa can harm puntland interest. and i wrote What often distances people from justice is their rejection of it. They may concur in principle, but they reject it when it conflicts with their own interests. Imagine seeing people trudging through life carrying a heavy backpack. When you ask them what is in it, they reply, "I don't know." "Well, then, why are you carrying it?" you ask. They give the same answer, "I don't know." You see, they have been carrying it so long, they don't recall how it got on their back, what's in it, or why they're carrying it. What a shame it is to needlessly carry such a burden. What exactly is the burden? Often it is SHAME. until you can forgive yourself, you will be forced to carry that backpack. May your burden be light.

"Where the mind is past hope, the heart is past shame." sense of shame - a motivating awareness of ethical responsibility - motivation deriving logically from ethical or moral principles that govern a person's thoughts and actions. shamelessness - behavior marked by a bold defiance of the proprieties and lack of shame feeling no shame; "a shameless imposter"; "an unblushing apologist for fascism" - the case of the poster of this thread.

Originally posted by *Ibtisam: Sayid do not expect them to line up behind you in support. In this place, justice means nothing, its egos and clans. At best justice and Somalinimo are gimmicks to be used and abused. i don't expect or even want for some to lie on here by saying they are for justice. this is my rant and i hope it educates some as to thier position about disregarding the clear and instructions of Allah (SWT) and yet call them selves believers. btw - i understand the surah a quoted is refering to different level of imaan than what is displayed here.

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"O you who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kindred, and whether it be against rich or poor: For God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts of your hearts, lest you swerve, and if you distort justice or decline to do justice, verily God is well-acquainted with all that you do." (Quran 4: 135) The intent of this verse to eliminate all partiality, all favouritism in one's actions. Put aside ego (partiality to your own opinions). Put aside favouritism to your blood alliances, to your clan’s enclave/state; don't be swayed by wealth or any worldly considerations. When you judge you have to stand as a witness before God - for it is before Him that you are ultimately accountable. In light of the above verse – I am proclaiming in this forum – that I Sayid Somal here by declare that what is happening in North East of Somalia (with Specific regards to the arbitrary arrests, proclamations about identity of others and the pervious attempts and actual handing over a muslim/somali to the cadowga) is the epitome of injustice. Injustices absence of justice; violation of the rights of another person - Justice is the concept of moral rightness based on ethics, law (of Allah), rationality, natural law (of Somalis), fairness and equity. I can understand and expect halfwits would not fully understand or appreciate the above verses or what I am about to write below. However I am very much disappointed in some, whom I took to be above petty clan allegiance. I hope that reading the above reminder from Qur’an would give them the courage to stand up firmly for justice and speak what is right. As I write this, probably without doubt, Somalis in the horn of Africa are being forced from their homes, dying and being maimed, injured or disabled, while those who are responsible for such misery sleep soundly in their warm beds and worst of all those that should at minimum speak against these injustices are actually cheering on the internet. What happened to the basic tenet of humanity with regards to injustice one should not be a victim to it. One should not be a perpetrator. But above all, one should never, ever, be a bystander to injustice? In brief, injustice rains supreme in our motherland and most of the world. What is the justification for this? Don't people feel the need for just administrations? When we talk about justice, everybody shares essentially the same basic concepts, and these are accepted by the majority of people right away. This justice will include people from all walks of life, with no discrimination between them. What often distances people from justice is their rejection of it. They may concur in principle, but they reject it when it conflicts with their own interests. Everyone, for instance, spurns bribery and in theory agrees that taking bribes is immoral. However, faced with an attractive offer of a bribe, some people fabricate "justifications" and violate the principles they theoretically agree with. Similarly, everybody agrees that public resources should be shared equally. However, the recipients of an "aid campaign" may attempt to take a greater share and even tread over others to accomplish that. In this case, too, personal interests supersede justice. Or more particularly to Somalis, punishing the defenceless (in terms of clan lineage) and the poor whilst the accused and even guilty from the armed clans are always given leniency when caught or conveniently can never be found. Hasn’t our prophet warned us against this (giving that nations before us were destroyed for practising these of forms of penal systems: where justice was only meted out on the weak and those of lower class, whilst those of wealth or status were let free) The examples are legion. Yet we ultimately face the very same truth: even if some people believe in the necessity of justice, they may violate it when their interests are at stake (these interest include ‘peace at all cost’ defence). Since some people with such mentalities are in the majority in some societies, justice remains an illusionary concept. For due administration of justice, a morality which will enable people to set aside their personal benefits for the sake of justice is needed. It has being said: The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. I part you with a question: Since when do you have to agree with people to defend them from injustice? And Remember; History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.

Salaams all, what is happening people? warka i siiya!