^^^you only have one tv station to worry about, maybe I’m getting paranoid :rolleyes: i don't think normal people use TV as a source of knowledge, unless it is the discover TV

six pages and still going!!! you guys have a lot of time to waste. your all saying the same thing different words, give it a rest. cheers

get a life :rolleyes: i'll bloody show you xishood otherwise :mad:

SB; you have too much time on your hands dear, give it a rest. if i answer your last questions, would you put a lid on it?

^^which one dear, i have so many?

Makaljabto: No arab woman has ever voted in her life. really, i beg to differ, and i have evidence. Also there are some arab men that never vote, and guess what else there are countries that vote, but it does not really matter what you vote, the leader has already been decided; you only have to look at Bush first elections. lastly and not least, i don't think voting can be used to decide how free someone is; consider this: French philosopher Rousseau: "The English people consider themselves to be free, but they are sadly mistaken. They are free during the parliamentary membership elections. As soon as the members are elected, servitude prevails, and the people are rendered to non-beings. How the English utilize the short moments of freedom enjoyed is indicative that they truly deserve to lose it." Also, you seem to be a bit confused between people’s actions and shirah law, maybe you should study it first before attributing peoples actions to shirah. It is easy to confuse laws with each interruption of individual countries. AbdulNoor; no problem cheers

I suppose this is your question, Ibtisam, and not part of the article. Do you think Muslims shouldn't ask for tolerance when they put to death a murtad (a revert)? i don't know i guess it makes things a little bit more difficulty. i advocate for human rights and especially tolerance for Muslims and their faith. i was not even aware of this man and his trial till i went to a meeting yesterday and they threw that question at me, why should we tolerate Muslims who kill people simply for changing their mind. Personally such a public display is not beneficial to Muslims who live in none Muslim countries, it makes us seem like confused, two faced people, who want to be treated well in regards to the right to excise their religion and practice it but they cannot give the same freedom to others in their own countries. if they were going to execute the man, then they should employ the same methods as other "shirah" countries where people go missing, not advertise it on BBC. IF the country is govern by shirah then sure, he should have been executed as they have the right and duty to implement it fully, but I’m not sure if there is a fully shirah system in Afghanistan. lets just say i'm bit confused right now on this issue :confused:

exposed!! The trial judge holds the bible he says belonged to the accused An Afghan man is being tried in a court in the capital, Kabul, for converting from Islam to Christianity. Abdul Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and could face the death sentence under Sharia law unless he recants. He converted 16 years ago as an aid worker helping refugees in Pakistan. His estranged family denounced him in a custody dispute over his two children. It is thought to be Afghanistan's first such trial, reflecting tensions between conservative clerics and reformists. Afghanistan Conservatives still dominate the Afghan judiciary four years after the Taleban were overthrown. The BBC's Mike Donkin in Kabul says reformists, like the government under President Hamid Karzai, want a more liberal, secular legal system but under the present constitution it is hard for them to intervene. 'Tolerance' Afghanistan's post-Taleban constitution is based on Sharia law, and prosecutors in the case says this means Abdul Rahman, whose trial began last Thursday, should be put to death. We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him Trial judge Ansarullah Mawlazezadah When he was arrested last month he was found to be carrying a bible and charged with rejecting Islam which is punishable by death in Afghanistan. Trial judge Ansarullah Mawlazezadah told the BBC that Mr Rahman, 41, would be asked to reconsider his conversion, which he made while working for a Christian aid group in Pakistan. "We will invite him again because the religion of Islam is one of tolerance. We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him," the judge told the BBC on Monday. But if he refused to reconvert, then his mental state would be considered first before he was dealt with under Sharia law, the judge added. He said he expected the case to take about two months to be heard. Precedent The Afghan Human Rights Commission has called for a better balance in the judiciary, with fewer judges advocating Sharia law and more judges with a wider legal background. Several journalists have been prosecuted under blasphemy laws in post-Taleban Afghanistan. The editor of a women's rights magazine was convicted of insulting Islam and sentenced to death last year - but was later released after an apology and heavy international pressure. Mr Karzai's office says the president will not intervene in the case. Observers say executing a converted Christian would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of Sharia law in Afghanistan. But it would also outrage Western nations which put Mr Karzai in power and are pouring billions of dollars into supporting the country. what right do muslim have demanding Tolerance?

loool; my man thinks its a chat room where response comes in seconds. i don't really see the big deal. There probably are some Jews that are of Somali origins or something As long as no one is forced to go to these centres. I’m sure they also have Somali gay and lesbian society. :cool:

^there is always a middle Ground. It would be nice to see the world in black and white, but maybe you should look closer at the grey bits. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Castro: ^ Northernerow, despite my seemingly harsh words for SB, I'm firmly of the belief that he has the capacity to materially consider alternative points of view and question his own. That any of us would hold erroneous beliefs is not a shame. What is a shame, however, is to never question those beliefs and give oneself a chance to set the record straight. Always remember saaxib the ultimate goal is to reach the most probable truth not to win or lose an argument. I like that^^ nice way of telling your cheerleaders to stop disturbing the discussion! Is anyone keeping the score?

abdul_noor Please reread what i have written. Despite the fact you have used it to support you thread, you somehow missed the point altogether. As for you disappointment, really and truly i could not give two toss, if i did say something wrong, its God and his punishment i should surely be worried about not your opinion of me! The point I made in my thread, is that Shirah Law could only work, if the correct interpretations are followed, if it is operated by obedient, God fearing individuals, whose only interest and aim is to please Allah. We do not have enough of these people in today’s society, my opinion in this case is that anyone claiming to be following shirah has other interest and gains that it wants to achieve via practicing shirah. I have talked about the practice of shirah and not else. towards the end of your post you say the same thing as above, which i don't have a problem with Flip- again you are jumping to conclusion, throwing quotes about does not aid anyone in understanding. i didn’t hear (read) anyone saying that God did not revel the truth, so don't put words into people's mouth while trying to make yourself colourful. Even if some did say that (which i can't find) surely a better way to approach them will be ask their reasons and explain things in a better manner, not throw random verses at them! cheers

^^^make some sense PLZ, i don't understand your post AVERAGE jew, really! :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

Although you double posted coz of anger for this Shariah that came and was applied even during the Prophet's time, Dear don't overstep your limits within ISLAM. It is a known fact that Shariah was not only used by the companions of the prophet but almost during the Islamic empire. To say that Shariah itself is Faulty here in a forum with many muslims, it is in other words saying, you guys religion is also faulty coz you can't believe in somethings and leave out some others in ISLAM.it is either you believe in ISLAM or not.Then on top of that, nobody even forces you to be in ISLAM if you think to be a somali, you have to be a muslim, Allah himself says, i'm not going to come right out and say shariah is faulty, i think it could not be applied to this day and age, with the current people living in the world. i think shariah law could only work and only worked at the time of the prophet (PBUH) and the Khalifah. Anything after that you only have to read history to see shariah rule, due to different understanding of it become Disaster rule! Shariah allows too much flexibility in its interpretations, so that any tom and dick could justify his actions using his version shariah laws. It is these different interpretations that cause the problems as well as dishonest Muslims, crooks and power hungry people who see Islamic laws as a way to do want they want without people asking difficult questions. Look around the so called "Islamic countries" and tell me if these "Islamist rulers" although claiming to follow shariah law just want to abuses people. the so called Islamic empire you speak of committed some of the worse crimes in that century, so no need to advertise them, they did nothing that anyone should be proud of. cheers

preview of film in London at amnesty tonight at 6 (moolade) on this subject if anyone wants to go;

“There can be no pleasure in saying so, but the facts point to one conclusion. Whether in Africa or America, Haiti or Great Britain, blacks are poor because they are, for the most part, incapable of lifting themselves from poverty. Africa is poor, just as Harlem is poor, because it is populated by Africans.†This is true, the first move is to accept it is true, not try to deny it. it is not a claim to refute, it is illustrated by Statistic. In order to change you have to realise that there is a reason they need to change. It is not something that is new, it has been argued by academies all over the place. The sole reason they are poor is not because they are African, but it is a major contributor. Africa is the poorest continent in the world (even worse than the Caribbean) and 70% of the world's poorest countries are in Africa.

SB: And maybe if you listen and read some more. Also visit www.nineeleven.co.uk Truth is a strange thing which takes a while to get out. Look around. i have my own theories of what happened (it was not the Jews either ) No seriously i just have a problem with people telling me s*****d* things, such as people used cell phones to call their loved ones (this was not possible till late 2003) or that a building could burn that quick from the after effect of a fire, the Gold that magically moved.... i could go on and on, but hey i won't As for your other points i have no disagreements with them. I’m not saying that his view is correct, i already said it is not, in fact i think Bush and Bin laden have between them created a lot of problems for the general Muslims. p.s. watch the doc; loose change on the above web page as well if you get time

^^^what is your point; he is not the only one who advocates this point. There are many others. But he has denied being the masterminded of Sept 11. As for his other attacks, I have issues with it as i don't agree with the random killing of civilians, undeniable it is a popular opinion amongst some Muslims

correction; sorry. what i meant was i know he was NOT behind sept 11. SB: Just few (that he already expressed): 1. Destroying America and the West 2. Returning to 7th century arabian life style 3. Reconquista of Spain and other former muslim lands that were not muslims in the first place. 4. Establishment of Sharia law everywhere muslims live 5. Using violence to achieve your goals same you don't like people making assumptions about you,...... And we have no prove that is what he intents, as far as i am aware, Bin laden is someone who is unhappy about certain things in the world and his home country. who is being framed for few other attacks!

Even though i know Bin laden was behind Sept 11, what possible common share value can you have with someone you don't know, further more how can anyone know what values he has! :confused:

read, re-read and read once again; i am sure you will understand me love just try harder will ya

^^well then let others live and determine what they want to do! I don't see what gives any of you the right to talk about people like, it is called backbiting, she does not come on SOL, and she is a Muslim (regardless of whether you thinks she is a good Muslim or not). what comes around goes around, 10yrs down the line, it might be you daughter/relative that people talk about like that! Funny how many of you preach Islam, but you only follow what you want and leave that which does not suit your interest. i could swear that is what the Jews got cursed for!

^^^i know it is good for me! in any case stop being so damn defensive. and the rest of you, i am sure you are aware that making assuptions based of little if any evidence is not allowed in ISlam. (sorry preaching goes both ways). so give it a rest!!

so women are not allowed to sit with their legs open this is soooooo funny. Even though she is wearing jeans and GOD knows what else. you guys really need to get a life :rolleyes:

firstly; flip; why are you quoting me?? secondly there is a time and place to preach.