^^^REally? I thought it was your multiple personality disorder, bad manners and your inability to see others succeed while you lag behind. Go and dazzle your boolshid with someone else, I am not buying it. P.s: You did claim the moral high ground by implying you was there for unselfish reasons, which we both know is not the case. Run along now. :cool:

Why would I explain anything to a xasid and obnoxious kid who cannot find it in his heart to congratulate another human being. I bet if your students became smarter than you and achieve things you would hate on them too. For shame, you just enjoy the hierarchy of people looking up to you for once in your life and you pretending you know something, don’t hide behind helping Somalilands future.

Boooooho, dont cry alpha, babababa assumptions make an as*s out of you. Stop crying, as a fellow Londoner I expected at least a hello. Maxaad la ooyii ma wax baan ka qaadey? Dont be a loser or a xasid.com, brother :D Typical farah, wu isku dalaley

Cry me a river! what can I say less than two weeks of my time with worth 1year of yours Hater and a xaasiid!! YA salama

so aniga ma ninamka ayaad igu daratey where is my food?? Salam Juxa. Xxx Alpha I was just there amongst the award collectors

Watermelon juice is just red water,

The Zack; 1) AU is not looking at recognizing Somaliland- regardless of what steps are taken or how much/less attention is given to SL or SSC. Personally I think that prolonged conflict in that region is not possible because neither one can effectively move nor is the land going anywhere. I think occupying SSC is useless and a waste of time, life and money, at the same time I think resisting and losing your life for something so pointless and which may or may not happen is pointless. The SSC region clearly has some anti SL people, but it also has pro SL people who are being employed by the government, being forced to fight your sub clan for a cause neither of you are sure will take you anywhere seems like a brainless activity to me personally. When and if ever SSC have a united front, they will be better positioned to fight or as a token, for as long as they remain as they are i.e. divided and fighting for few months and then making peace and then fighting again and the cycle, their issue will come and go but will largely remain irrelevant. 2) There is no Somalia, as an entity there is nothing Somaliland can do to help Somalia, the clan balance which Somalis love so much will ensure of that. I am all most 90% sure that IF Somaliland got involved it will just become another fraction in the conflict. Look at how Puntiland messed itself up getting involved and even leading Somalia two different times. How is burning everything better than some areas being better off? How can any object to what Somaliland HAS achieved for its people. You say as if it is a negative thing, I think the fact that Somaliland has not been recognized is a blessing, for being here now, I can see that they have been sheltered by that very reason, and it has allowed them to build the root that will sustain them as people and allow them to develop. I personally don't see recognition coming forth in the next 10years, laakin if they did receive independence then, they would be better equip and read for it then they are now. 3) Somaliland problems is not just war, but sustained abuse ii ka tirsanaya the whole of Somalia since joining, the majority of the soldiers that were deployed to the Norther regions were specific clans, the Northern soldiers were sent to Xamar where I am sure they too carried out some crimes. Nevertheless Somalia is still fighting in clan lines- can we expect them to recover? if we look at the Islamic courts the answer is yes. IF we talking about union EVERYONE including SSC will have to recover, if you are saying they can't recover, then there is no union and the whole project is a lie. FYI: SSC has a long standing history of fighting with the HJ, ask anyone from either clan and they will tell you so, they have and can recover, history tells us so. Libaan I read your response, I would've picked on every line but in the interest of time; 1) The point you missed is, should SSC and SL part on bloody terms, and Somaliland is recognized it will be SSC nomads that have to shift- or do you then plan a campaign to free your people who want to live all the way to Burco but dont want Somaliland? Muush macquul. 2) What about people within the SSC who support and want Somaliland? 3) Somaliland is not fighting OG and they have boarder as different countries for so long, therefore you cannot compare it to a new board situation 4) You keep telling me about Hirran and Somalia and this and the other, focus your argument and narrow it down; the choice seems simple: a) The SSCs who want to go CAN go, those who want to stay can stay [free choice for all], so between SSC decide who wants what and where and then move/ live accordingly. That way the SSC clan harmony/area is maintained, the SSC/SL issue is resolved and no life is lost. It also means people can continue moving freely in the event Somaliland continues on its path and proceeds. OR b) Unit all of SSC, including your sell outs, mini sub clans and all and persuade each other to go one way or another, once you have decide amongst yourself, don't CHANGE your mind and pursue that goal. Dabaqdabaqadan iis kasa ayaa daanta this sporadic loss of life and flares in fighting. Iis fiican baa la iisu dila one time and then you progress beyond it, you cannot stay in a cycle your whole life. I shall agree to disagree with you both respectfully. We too are now going in circles, so I am out. Enjoy. :cool:

Wooow this thread moved fast. Libaan I dont have the time haad to answer your long post, I will inshallah read it and come back to it later. The Zack; Can I correct you please; It is not SSC that is holding Somaliland hostage, it is Somalia. I believe that regardless of what development Somaliland reaches, even IF SSC and everyone was on board, Somaliland will still be a hostage of Somalia for the near future. With the same token I think if Somalia continues to be troubled to this capacity for longer than 10-15years, everyone including Puntiland will be moving in different direction. One of the reason I think SSC issue is neither here nor there (so long as there is no fighting) is that waa irrelevant at this moment, Somaliland cant go any where until there is a Somalia to talk with, nor can SSC have any support or go anywhere without a viable Somalia. Therefore they are both waiting for the same thing [in the short term], wait in peace and when the time comes you are both better place to make a decision together or apart. All this noise, fighting and bodbod is a waste of life, energy and resources. The Zack dont shoot yourself in the foot; IF Somaliland is expected to come back from the hatred of pre 1991 and its impact, it is hardly a tall order to ask SSC to come back from clan clashes. There is no comparison surely?. EDIT: Also, SNM Puntiland iyo SSC supporters drag their name around, the irony is that as a Movement they were not fighting for an independent state, and some of their key leaders bitterly objected to the new agenda afterward. But I guess when clan is all you can see, and your historical knowledge is Zero you make up all sorts of things to re-write history.

Somali version of Mills and Blues at last, based on just Ms Moon Posted!!! I can't read it, made me cringe, plus the guy she described as a diamond looks like a regular farah with bad taste in clothing to be the hero in her story :D Good on her, maybe she should publish it; JB and Alphy, I bet IF it was a guy who wrote it, one of you would've posted the whole content of be blog on here and the other would've LOOOOL'ed all the way home and posted it on his FB!

Atheer iga haad, I tell you get well soon, you tell me it was my fault and I did sixir on you, then one page later you want to have a normal convo, waan ka yaabey, bal iga leexo!!!! :eek: :eek: Juxa :D I am going to find a place my eyes and stomach agree with

Abu- Salman I work around that area, sure- send me her details JB, daadka ha khaladiin, it is nice to keep safe and eat only in good places. Arch $26000 for 5months, what on earth were u eating!!!! LOOOOL!

How can you miss arrogance or all things? Get well soon, eating out has its risks. Juxa!! I dont think killing your own is possible, even if it is killing a chicken everyday is a bit much. Had tuna again Sent you an e-mail about how to kill the chicken

SalamAlikum. Hi Juxa, big wave!!! How are u? I am starving, off to the market to see what I can find.

Akash;722347 wrote: freedome. we are going to reunite the rest of somali republic the same thing that we have done in the 60s, this time the people of awdalland are ready to clean the mess that created the gang militia of so called sland and in the ground no one support the SNM clan lead silaanyo and hid group, the elders, business community, intellectuals all they have shown their support awdal state. I've not read the rest of this thread; But just saw the last response. How interesting. Who is WE (that united Somalia in the 60s?) Awdal is different from SSC case because Aksha: Your clan groups, sub clans, elders, business community, intellectuals HAVE ALL shown their support to Somaliland, there is countless evidence everywhere, they have LED and promoted the SL cause when Burco was no promoting the cause, they were the financiers and champions of Somaliland up until Riyaal lost the election. Suddenly it is SL= SNM. Really? If your problem WAS SNM it was dealt with in Burco conference 1993, if your problem was based on moral objection or love for Somalia it would've materialized in the last 20years. Also realistically speaking SSC has more options, Awdals has zero option and you cannot CLEAN (subxanallah) your way to Somalia- even Siyad Barre with the whole countries resources could not manage that. So cool yourself, aint no one going to clean anyone (I cannot believe people advocate for the cleansing of others so easily just based on clan) HA la iska baqbaq leeyo Somaliland, SSC iyo Awdal clans wa la isku xidey, ilaho so kala fura mooyan, not sure diaspora parties and forum debates will tip the balance any time soon. Faan baadan daadku :rolleyes: you and whose army will unit Somalia? Is Awdal going to march over to Xamar and solve the puzzle?

Taleexi;722342 wrote: Ibti: my dear, I know I'm an ignorant figure but I believe I deserve to shape my destiny like anybody else of course we don't see eye-to-eye one this. In the case of " an alternative be agreed ", waad iga qoslisay and I needed one after a long day. Admit or not admit your clan needs other Somali clans as much as my clan needs them. No more, no less. Don't portray that your people encapsulated and are self-sufficient when it comes to the interdependence of the said communities. Finally, I've invested a lot of effort promoting peace in Somalia and I shall continue but sorry I cannot accept the gross injustices that you are promoting. Oh, Somaliland claiming its dependence from WHO, last time I checked they are the aggressors but you are picturing them as if they are the victims ... cajaa'ib -- Allow sahal umuuraha. Not self-sufficient if nothing else they need the business and money/ exchange of the people in those region, this is above all the other things. When you finish laughing etc, put aside the paranoia and read my post again. Somaliland says they've had their victim years, now some SSC say they are having their victim years, do we keep recycling the victim or find an alternative agreement. You find it funny and want to continue circulating the victim to a different clan or re-rotate. I find that finding a new solution is a necessary step to progress, and it is not a laughing matter (certainly SSC is not laughing, nor was Somaliland laughing before), and anyone who cares for Somalis should not find it funny. :cool: Go figure.

Taleexi: It is holistic gumaysi in either direction, isn't that WHY Somaliland claims independence? So since either one cannot submit to that, an alternative needs to be agreed. That is my point; It cannot be as simple as do what you want and leave us alone, only ignorant people or those who can safely sit behind a computer without being impacted can say that with a straight face. FOR NOW is that they realize their inalieable self-determination by any means necessary. whose self determination is more important? mine, yours or the majority? If that is the case, then in the foreseeable SOMEONE/clan will be oppressed somewhere in the Somali Lands.

Jacaylbaro;722127 wrote: History is what makes countries and defines communities. Talk about British history and all you will read is the struggle and fighting with so and so. Talk about even Somalia and they will tell you about xaawo taako, sayidka, and so on. If you let your history go, then there is nothing left for you. And that is exactly what they mean when they tell you "let the past go" ............ Can America let 9/11 go ?? ... Can even Muslims let Badr & Uxud wars go ?? ,,,, if we want to let the history go, then that history should not happen in the first place. I told you, it could be easily avoided. Okay you cannot let the past go, then creating a past for these people distinct from yours will haunt you later, agreed? I told you, I'm up for any dialogue .... It is them that are still fighting. We're just fighting back. The statements like "You do not exist" or "You cannot exist" makes one more radical and would do anything to show them the otherwise. Sit with them ?? ,, Good and excellent idea but with who exactly ??? ,,,,,,,,,,, Alshabaab ?? ,, The Villa ??? ,,, Ahlusunna ??? ,,, Bugland ??? .. Galmudug ?? ,,, Ximan & Xeeb ?? ,,,, Lasagna ??? ,,,, Jubbaland ?? ,,,, They need to be one first to be ready for sitting on a table for talks. That does not seem happening at the moment. Forget Somalia as whole now; the SSC, I mean sit with the people not the oldies or the sell outs, sit with the people, all their representatives and hear them out, hearing out the few that come with you is not enough, hearing out the ones who oppose you is difficult but needs to be done. YOu are just chasing them around haada. Yes SNM was Jabhad and no Somaliland is not making the same mistake of Siad Barre. Gov Modifications, talks, negotiations, and other things are underway right now. I don't want to tell you everything I know but there will be lots of changes coming in the near future. But you should know that SSC is not the same it looks on SOL ...... Okay progress of things are in the pipe line hence why the fighting stopped I get that, but can a long term solution be found rather then cease fires that randomly pick off where they left off after a while. Can something other than appealing to their hungry /bribe with money/ positions be done?? Otherwise tomorrow when the position shifts or the money is increased by someone else, they will buy from else where. Can you marginalized the money motivated ones and deal with peace/ progress motivated ones? THE ZACK Somaliland in its current capacity without giving up their claim- as an alternative; if Somalia fails to rise then they would've done themselves a great injustice giving up their claims prematurely. However IF Somalia rises, then they can give up their claim for the better alternative. Lastly I am still waiting for someone to tell me what being part of Somalia looks like right one for someone who lives in SSC? Do you have a say? power or influence in the current power struggle going on?

Salamah, 1. AfricaOwn; as an ambassador and an advocate for Somaliland you make a poor job of making it appealing. You are always angry, resulting to name calling etc. There is an art to persuasion which you lack (Ngonge, Ododwyne, Suldaan, Ayoub and North have) and you are just angry 24/7 and easy to provoke (while JB comes across as happy go lucky). You, XX, axmed, saleex and Abokor are far too militant, rude and disrespectful (yes yes I get it people are the same to you, but you have to learn to rise above it). 2. Liiban; thank you for your length post, some I believe you are sincere, some are just pretty words; without me picking it all apart (don’t have time and you are hardly going to admit to it) here is the main problem I see with your argument; - Assume Somaliland divides along clan lines (that is what you are advocating for remember) forget Awdal for the moment, Your clans of SSC (particularly the main clan) share miyi territory with the clans of the three city; in fact my home town Burco has about 20% SSC population with houses, business and land. My home village/ tuulo, use to be about 80% that clan, Hargeisa as a current commercial and business hub hosts this clan. Should the SSC be forced to clear off (displaced) to honor these clan alignments?. Do you really think that the SSC clan can shift from the shared miyi lands forever? As an individual who don’t live there (SSC) you probably think if the village of LA and the other three city are cleared, then everything will be dandy right? I am sorry to tell you that the area which your clan lives and sustain their livestock reaches far beyond those cities you know and right into the heart of the current "disliked" clan. It is my opinion therefore that your idea does not in reality work or can even be called a constructive proposal which preserves of the interest of your clan, let alone fair to anyone else. It is as absurd as some Somalilanders saying; Those who do not want to be part of Somaliland are free to pack their belongs, grab their geel and huts and shift over to the lands that extend beyond the SL boarder to join the clan brothers they want. - Somaliland and SSC future is intertwined because the people who LIVE (not you or khaddar, or AfricaOwn or XX) in those areas needs and survival are socially, culturally and historically intertwined, it has been for so long before politics got involved. The SSC nomads will not leave the lands that sustains their livestock, nor will they give up the lands and houses in the SL cities, nor will they shift over to the lands of D block to be a refugee. Nor could they say we don’t want to be with you (SL), but we will stay in the heart of your clan and operate with our interest intertwined. Nor can you say SL people stay out of our village while WE roam your cities and our livestock graze right in the middle of yours in safety and good heart. Nor can they say ISq clan should only live in 3 cities and give up their miyi territory. Now do you see the dilemma of such situation? Can you appreciate that your idea is not viable? This is why I find it ridiculous when I hear you and the SSC nomads here saying SL should do what it wants and leave our cities alone. It is a none argument, because in saying that you give up your clans claim to sharing grazing lands that form the backbone of their survival. How do you think they live? Do you think the majority live in brick houses with running taps and supermarkets? Could your clan really just live in your cities and survive, for how long? A day, a week? - IF you agree that the division needed to preserve both interest is NOT possible then we can progress, however if you still think the SSC clan can survive on its tuulos and cities while giving up their interest in the SL territory and shared lands, then please explain, I am all ears;? General point: All those saying get out of their land, it just shows you have no idea how people live in those areas. Qurbo joog.com :D

Liibaan, okay you want to be part of Somalia, what does that mean? Where is Somalia haada? You say Somaliland does not exist and it is all Somalia, but haadan you say I dont want to be part of Somaliland? If there was a WHOLE Somalia again you do realize that Somaliland will be a player?- where and how would you transfer your hate to then? Would you ensure they are marginalized or occupied. After all that happened, could you seriously call them your brothers? or has the hate and wars progressed too far for it ever to coexist within ONE entity (be it Somalia or Somaliland)? JB until they are ready could be a long time, in the mean time, dont you think you should do some damage control? As a die hard Somalilander who reminds us all the time of 1981, 88 and 91, can you or are your prepared to ever let it go, bygones and history and all. IF this history holds you hostage, could you ever sit down with the said people and tell me you can have a honest and open good hearten dialog with them? Dont you think it is impossible with the burden of you did this to me? You say SSC wa jabhaad, was SNM not a jabhaad, is Somaliland in fact not making the same mistake as Siyad Barre did by labeling them as such and not dealing with them and their issues, maybe few changes and modification in the government much like the SNM wanted could swing the people? it is an oxymoron to say I wont forget history yet refuse to learn the lessons it taught. SNM succeeded because the longer the struggled, the more brutal the government become legitimizing their concerns, is this not what Somaliland is currently doing?

JB, okay I hear your point, but dont you understand that these people are not going to go away, dont they concern you that the people in your back yard feel this way about your existence. Fine fighting happened, but that was a long time ago, the uncles will be dead in most in 5-10years, leaving behind a population who did not fight you and only knows what their uncles told them. You cannot write them off as I know their stance, you don't. These are the future of Somalis, be it good or bad, you can't just right them off as my way or the high way because the high way just goes around your house and to your back door. As we say, deal with it before you are forced to or forever held hostage. It is good for you to write, more than your usual Loooooooool iyo :D Bashire: No not your or BOB (He is kismayo), I can't remember his name, laakin wa half waadad.

JB: People of Somaliland, Somalia, or Somali Speaking nations (nationals)! think wholly being part of a region. the question is what will benefit all?, after all Somaliland does not exist in an empty space and impacts others. Is Somaliland’s independence detrimental to the people as a whole? inside and outside of Somaliland. What is the reason for objection to Somaliland’s self determination? Is self determination a natural right? If yes what about people who object to Somaliland, IF no, then explain Somaliland! Pursuing these line of discussion is healthy and needed IF somaliland was to move in either direction. The fact you think it is useless is worrying. It is also more productive than my clan is better yours. The Zack; Could Somaliland be seen as a stepping stone to Federalism and in turn would yield the ever sought UNITY of all of Somali speaking lands?

:D lol wa just lazyness on his part, education is actucally pretty good here! About OdeySomali; I only ever read 4 posts or so when he was debating with Taleexi, sounded pretty pro-Somalia to me in the long term. I also didnt see anything on the same level as XX, he is simply out of this world with his views.

^^I didnot say ban dude. OdySomali CANNOT be XX, that is just absurd, XX only writes in aff Somali and I dont think he can hide his insults and general absurd ideas. Pluz his favorite word "Konfuurs" would've slipped out already if it were him. I think OdySomali is PRo-Somalia in the long term. JB: Not true, Since I joined SOL, one of the biggest supporters of Somaliland (Ngonge) has progressed from where is Somaliland to there is only Somaliland. Libaan and Xoogsaad and most of the SSC nomads as well as the more neutral clan in that region has switched sides from SL, PL to forming their own Makhir or SSC or something else at one point or another. This of course was not always as result of a health discussion on SOL, but it probably helped them see things one way or another. Ngonge as a case study has most certainly progressed as a direct results of his interaction on SOL. P.s. Well done you wrote 5lines!!!

JB: You are a troll and you never write more than 2lines unless you are quoting someone- so maxa lagaal haadla? Also Somaliland baa madax ka gashey, as nice and smiley you are to everyone (I have to say you dont resort to open insults) laakin you are not willing to look beyond your box- probably because you believe Somaliland is earth and there is nothing beyond it but space so what could you possible add to this discussion? Waad duushey already! Tell me if I am lying or being unfair The Zack: I already knew I was going to be attacked, waan uu badadey! Its okay though, waxaba maleh. Tell the truth and shame the shaydan, ciidna kuman geefin beena kaman sheegin.

I just read the list again and it looks like I've excluded everyone I would've liked to see a debate with the following components and opponents. Pro-SL: North, Ngonge Pro-SSC interest: Taleex, Val, Malika On sideline Puntiland; NN iyo Sayid on sideline- ONLF: Zack and the other dude- the half wadaad one Pro- Somalia: OdySomali, Adam, Sayid and the smart newbie They could have a decent discussion and with the exception of maybe Ngonge and NN are willing to accept others view or be persuaded. At worst they could agree a nice compromise which suits them all. All the others wye iis shiidi! Okay I think I have caused enough trouble in this thread already, so relegated myself to the side line. Salamah