*Sighs* you know you've given me naught else but disagree for the sake of it and without proving anything of any real substance to the equation. Like I said ambitious imagination at its best and though I am tempted to divulge further and get into a heated debate....wsell I truly don't have either the energy or care as for the genetic aspects of evolution? Natural selection can only take you as far microevolution but macro? *lifts a brow* But I shall leave you with this birds don't have teeth? Eh? Indeed then what do you call that? lacerations? I would suggest that anyone whose truly interested look but the evidence and research themselves instead of taking it on peoples word. Thats me done.

^- Dont ask for such things waa maqaariib. Speak only of goodness you never know it might be lay-latul qadr the night where all your dreams can come true. If only you ask for it. Raise your palms in the air with me and ask for gorgeous, clever little daughters and sons. Goblan indeed *tisk tisk*

^- LOL Salma- Depends upon SOl's definition of clean and I'll be honest...*comes close to whisper in her ear* I've never been on paltalk and don't even have a face book account. I'm not as sassy as I'd like to make myself out to be I just assumed the cimaamad and cabaayad brigade lifted their prospetive clothing through proper "cyber" talk -via xalaal means. Technially it wouldn't be a sin to jiggle about infront of ones webcam would it? *giggles* I kid...

^-Hmm, religion an absolute truth which we envolved into eh? Then I would ask precisely what the nature of truth is and whether its something which is evolving and adaptable. If so how can if ever trust its validty as one unique trait of the truth-its that its usuallly seen as being a constant unalterable force. GG-I didn't insinuate that you should apologise for anything and I was refering to your answers to Johnny the proof being in the quran part. Sure his angel analogy was rather amusing and lacking some but the idea that the quran provides truth? Well...does it really contain detailed descriptions of scientific descoveries way before its time or do we humans merely romantically read what we wish into the translations depending upon what progress we've made in the world? Does the Quran contain hidden messages we only see after accumulating knowledge or prior to this?*shrugs* Still... actually refering to a holy scripture in which someone doesn't accept to be valid rational document is rather well, benign. Hope you understanding what I meant if not? Then I shall drop the matter altogether. Ps Naden thanks for the heads up but I didn't see your review unfortunately and either way I was desperate to watch this film...and I've just come back from watching it...guess what? I LOVED IT! LOL I know yes it was racist, cheesy and not especially original but it came from SOUTH AFRICA? And it wasn't especially subtle with its references to its aparthied history. But it had human idiocy and I found it difficult not to form any compassionate feelings of sorrow with the "prawns" who just wanted to go back home. It was rather touching ending and I'm left thinking...will christopher come back? to help that poor selfish white africana? Who ended up finding the true essense of human compassion through the ironic transformation into the very creatures he was abusing? ...or perhaps I'm just a soft touch for old stories re-told? The nigerians thing was a bit over done..Still I was laughing with relish at the whole juju-alien eating thing. To further go OFFTOPIC There is one movie I am fairly foaming at the mouth to watch and thats Guy Richies Sherlock Holmes. Downy junior has excellent comic charm and I for one cannot wait! Jude law puts me off though...

Hehehe, sounds funny *goes off to watch a few clips*

LOL-Arab dating eh? I'd stay away from "muslim" dating if I were you. Too much sexual fustration resulting in cimaamad and cabaayad lifting on pal-talk for my liking. I'll stick to oggling guys on life support machines in hospitals thanks you very much. Plus they don't fight back and are easier to subdue.

Yes, and I shall...inshallah

^-Hmm, true it would be difficult if not a rather heated affair but surely if one makes a claim then they should go about either proving or disproving that claim to whomever is truly interested in the pursuit of knowledge? Regardless of their own personal beliefs. Should we go down the route of excluding the share of knowledge based upon a series of stringent criteria it would become a serious error in judgement. Having said that inorder for one to recieve any sort of information they must be capable of being susceptible to openly discussing said matter/matters with an open clear and relatively objective mind. In anycase, it matter not that an athiest doesn't believe in the essense of God in the first place...provide compelling evidence and all shall fall to their knees regardless of their prior dominant stances. The truth is a very difficult thing to hide-instinctually we know when we see it or feel it. Some merely require more info than others to "believe". Its within the open lines of communication where the most mesmerizing of human transitions of "faith" can be brought to fruition. Segregation of the "truth" is never a good idea.

Ps A.Z lol-You shall make very reer magaal father. Me? I'll talk to my kids, trust them, kick them and then send them scattering off on to the horizon. Theres only so much a parent can do except try your best and make du'cas constantly to help them stay on a clear path. LOL Peace..

LOL-giving your daughters full access to the local neighbourhood Somali boys wont make them more somali-but taking them back home every year to talk with those older then themselves will help them form a sense of cultural identity. I learnt more about "somaliness" talking to my grandmother and aunts and uncles then talking to kids of my own westerned influenced age. Then again each to their our own. My kids? Inshaallah Shall be jetted off to Somalia every year for months on end-volunteering where neccessary-at hospitals etc (let them see the poverty and give thanks)-cleaning and learning to heat girgiraha with duxul and dashaq together some laxoox and learn the basic forms of Somali compassion, generosity- etiqette and respect for elders. Simple...plus I'm thinking of making them help with the agricultural aspects and allow them to generally roam free around the buurahaa where I shall regale them with tales of their nomadic ancestry. So they grow up to be confident, intelligent and street wise well as well acedemically and practically sharp individuals. I shall raise obnoxious, cocky little brats with hearts of gold. Very complex kids-(LOL I can only hope) I shall in essense give my kids the trust and freedom I was given. Which is why I'm such a boring old woman..so much freedom? Nothing to rebel against, except the world ..Or the world in which I have created.

Sue- Ah...you make a good case but it all depends on the notion of freewill actually existing and judging by the fact that Allah knows and has written each of our destinys when we're in the womb I truly doubt we have much say in the matter. Allahs will and all that. If you say that we do have freewill and then go about stating that Allah simply "knows" and is not making me do certain things-despite writing that I shall prior to any decision making I can take...then how can I have freewill? I know, its because I am human and am therefore incapable of understanding that which is above my limited comprehension-that I can accept. However, if I set myself a basic limit such as two opposing statements of contradictory notions cannot lie together comfortably then it keeps it simple (Ie Allahs fate and my "choice"). Thus I am left with the conclusion that I can only try my best-keep it simple and just listen to Allah telling me that I have freewill within the Quran when we all know deep down-we're all puppets simply dancing to our own fates. Can I deal with being insignificant? Yes I can but thats why I don't actually put much validity into the notion of freewill anyway. Then again...perhaps two contradictory notions each-facing backwards can jam together into a great mesh of "reason" to which I, a human, am not yet if ever will be capable of understanding such twisted logic? Eh *shrugs* Too much thinking LOL- And I have diverted considerably from my orginal purpose of the topic In anycase- do I take it to mean that you personally would not risk it? which is fair enough I suppose. Not everyone has sociopathic/destruct ive tendencies. *Waves to mortal combat* Long time no see..glad to see your well

Nadan- Aaah! *points a finger in the air* now I understand your meaning... So what you and Johnny boy were saying is that if let us say generally the responsibility of proving ones faith lies with the original claimers surely if they are unable to prove anything (qauntifiable)would it be a rationally reasonable option (at that precise time) to not accept their word until further evidence is provided? Hmmm...Now I see what you mean it does seems a rather reasonable enough attempt to simplify things I suppose if not a little closed off and compartmentalised. I mean there are things within this universe that are unexplained-would it truly be that bad to listen to all views, assess them individually and if there is no clear answer leave a question mark on it instead of boxing it into the skeptical "bollocks" category Otherwise we become subject to not only a culturally acceptable arroagance but ignorance in the face of unaswered gaps. An example of such a rationality led to the idea that the earth was flat-until proven otherwise, that genetics does occur via a system of "blending~" infact but not mendelian genetics. So you see if they (the scientific ie somewhat rational community) can be wrong? Then so can you... All I propose is that people keep an open mind and leave aside any presumptuous notions without either the evidence to support or negate it. Its rather simple. I guess people in general are not happy with leaving questions marks all over the place and wish instead to fill the gaps within their understing-for what purpose I don't know.In pursuit of the truth? Or as a result of the basic forms of human self preservation? *Shrugs* Perhaps? Who knows.. Ps GG LOL-Sister if you'll permit me to give you one piece of advice try not to provide religious answers to those who are not "religous" in the form of I.e telling them of the maricles within the Quran when they most likely don't accept the Quran as a historically acceptible document anyway. Right or wong...it would save you a lot of time arguing. Try to find a common ground for which discussions can commense without it coming to blows-with another person sprouting verses from the quran. Wonderful and rather lovely do I find these verses yes... but others? I doubt it would be of relevance to them. Ps 2. I didn't even get to watch District 9-Totally pissed. Perhaps this eve?LOL-Off topic I know but eh..*shrugs?

Excuse me for the quick rambles everyone...I was half stuffing myself with Aftur. Oh and I'd just like to point out one other reply which was missed out. One I found rather interesting...quite refreshing even as its definitely a difference stance altogether. Now this really would make for an interesting discussion piece. Originally posted by humble.: Shabeel and JB, first I am not really too bothered about proofs or non-proofs or existence or non-existence or some such thing that might throw us into the whirl wind of claims and counter-claims, but let me, for the benefit of discussion, be more of a complete nutter and reduce the whole argument of this thread as being simply 2 of many other human or imaginative explanation of what exists or doesn't exist. What if there could be more arguments than just these two? What if there are other explanations more inclusive than Darwinism? Or that of religion? What I find very amusing in all human arguments is that its not merely the truth that humans are after, but somehow the 'missing link or truth' becomes the very exercise of 'countering the other'. And slowly by slowly, the need for truth itself becomes redundant since it doesn't either support one or another side of the argument. Perhaps we should find the hidding place of the truth? BTW, I don't think this forum exists, it is the constract of my imagination. I somehow created it. Now counter that. Definitely outside of the box and I like it. ...and that was NOT even a shameless attempt to seduce its author with compliments. Nothing but unadulterated honesty.

Nofsky- Fustrate yourself not in vain, brother Johnny is a slippery eel-would've made a good politician. LOL Johnny boy- Firsly thank you for being polite secondly and lamentably after much of your literally posturing and prancing (entertaining as it is) I now see that any notions I had of having a proper discussion must be scattered to the wind as any further discussions will become subject to nothing more than semantic bickering and purposeful misunderstanding if our previous replies are anything to go by. No disrespect to you but I do believe I made myself clear on the belief in “no god” is a belief thing. But just to simplify it and regrettably repeat myself again (something which I am loathe to do)...the essence of and just one definition of the word Belief- is the confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. So your Sun rising from the west analogy is rather silly (I’m sure you’ll agree in hindsight) and for reasons so obviously pointed out by GG. That being while we have evidence ie ‘logical” and thus “rational” evidence to counteract the notion of the Sun rising from the west your own philosophy of Gods inexistence fails to provide anything of substance. Unfortunately and therefore your pyramid of a "rational belief” structure is a rather contradictory notion which inadvertently highlights naught else but the inadequacies in your decorative labyrinthine theories. As for your Angel analogy? LOL-You’ve got to be kidding right? *Lifts a brow* Its not dishonest it’s called science and it’s how we relatively rational human beings test theories, ideologies and belief structures. Your own one was that there was no god and thus its your responsibility to either prove your hypothesis correct or as close as to (or statistically probable) and significant possibility. The same applies for anyone who vouches for god’s existence. It would be fair to ask that the person provide some sort of measurably quantitative factor in order to ascertain an ideas validity. If one is unable to..then one leaves it to "faith" another acronym for "belief" It’s rather a standard practise in science and I’m a little amused if a little embarrassed with having to spell it all out as it were my dear. If perchance you do not have sufficient evidence as to support your ideas “much like faith” as it requires “belief” then you’re humorously falling into the same “irrational” traps. LOL So to conclude if...after all of this your either unable to understand or accept this rather simple idea then let us leave it aside as I’m not of the disposition to argue in circles. Having said that if you can provide something truly different and interesting regarding the “near death” experiences things then please free feel to divulge. If however your going to do a Dana Scully on me...then keep your peace-I prefer not to expel too much energy on trying to convince a born again sceptic on all things unexplained-especial ly when the pathic excuse for an explaination is flimsy..much like anyone elses..*shrugs* Thus its with much I bid you adieu. I’m off to watch District 9 and would be more interesting on discussing this point.

^- LOL Must you take my phrases quite literally...I meant Allah in the sense that when you allow a ball to decide your fate its unpredictable much like the fate Allah has decided for us...and seen as though we don't know whats to happen on a day to day basis its rather the similar on that point. Gordon...no, no its not an arranged Somali marraige as we know it because usually in those kinds of set up's one actually gets to see the bride/groom before hand along with their prospective families. You also get to have several key imformations about their roles what eachother do for a living etc. This would be a complete gamble.

Well I was mostly green 2nd orange and 3rd blue and last of all yellow.

So, after all that verbal contortionism I am left with two main points (leaving aside all imperial insults thrusted from lofty heights I presume? LOL)firstly its that you take exception to idea that the “belief” in the nonexistence of a deity is not a true “belief” in itself because its actually (According to you alone I gather) a rationally justifiable belief? A tongue twister if I ever saw one... interesting, *scratches her head* but what I find rather amusing is that despite the lack of rationally produced conclusive evidence supporting Gods lack of existence you still feel it appropriate enough to cloak yourself with the term rational? Despite showing to be nothing but? *lifts a brow* Neigh my dear there is nothing rational about not believing in something you are as of yet are unable to prove- If anything its rather arrogant and highly presumptuous don't you think? The second think I noticed was what I can only presume to be an attempt at explaining near death experiences/phenomen on’s as being nothing more but universally acknowledged cognitive disposition’s which plague the mortal mind... -Well I’m not sure about you but when a “cognitive experience” goes far enough to described in pin point accuracy detail-discussions and actions and the position of items within a hospital room from a supposedly "dead" patient?... Well...all I need say is that...thats some heck of a “cognitive” experience! LOL-Seriously-my guess and all be it other-worldly is as good as any other, simply because I’m generous enough to leave a blank or ominously suggest that “powers” are at work is by no means an indication as to my presumed idiosyncratic religious inadequacies or shall I say “apologetic” base urges to believe in God. If my guess is as good as any others? And it is considering that this remains within the balls marks of unexplainable physiology then why the need to censor or adamantly reject or produce a rather superficial and somewhat insulting humorous and simple explanation to combat my own “outrageous” remarks? LOL Your funny I’ll give you that... Rather perplexing too-but I must admit you however you did raise a fair point about my under the knife “hostile” atheist’s jab and thus your idea that they’re merely trying to preserve they’re own principles and not necessary because they’re own “belief” is shaky. Mayhap I spoke out of turn as I was referring to in truth my own experiences with a handful of wannabe atheist. I do however think you may have got a little ahead of yourself as secular ideas have killed more people in this world than one or two spaghetti strapped suicide bombers ...communism, nazism, mccarthyism anyone? You give bible bashers and faith healers far too much power me thinks-when its secular ideas which bring out revolts. (Not suggesting all are bad of course-but take it with a pinch of salt) Ps- Actually the theory of Evolution predates Darwin and thus 200 years ago and though Atheism and evolution do not go hand in hand I do find that its one of the ideas that so-called reasonable men and women jump upon when it comes to understanding creation. Thats why its always comes up in heated religious debates, which I'm sure your aware of.

In anycase... it really shouldn’t bother you too much, understand that people are human and arrogance is blind-understand that and you’ll be able to accept them as they are. They are Allah’s creation and it is he whom decides for us and seen as those we don’t have any real power (come on now lets be honest *controversial I know*) I don’t see why it should stress you that much. Have confidence in your iman smile, discuss and talk to your hearts content..but understand also that we all find our paths a little differently and sometimes it takes a while. Patience is truly a virtue. Then again I've always been a laid back sort. *Stress her legs and then gets back to work*

^-Its human arrogance and they themselves are guilty of being precisely just as ignorant as the “religious” fanatics that they detest. Because the blind “belief” that god doesn’t exist is in itself a form of “faith” for which there is no reasonable evidence. Simply because something is still out of ones understanding and grasp of nature is by no means an indication as to its inexistence or lack of potential to affect the universe as we know it. Nothing but deaf, dumb and blind arrogance…. Like I said, I don’t personally believe or give credence to this notion of “true” atheism- as I think humans are all inherently agnostic and those who argue vehemently otherwise obvious have something to prove to themselves. Subconscious perhaps but if people were happy with their own beliefs then why argue with us simple subjects? Again if one was so secure in his or her belief that there is no god they would in general be content with such a finding a rarely have the energy or time to argue with those with those who believe in the hereafter. Often those who are apposed certain ideas ie the notion of a super being are angry and hostile because subconsciously they’re just like us…they want to believe in something they just have difficulty putting their heads around it because they’re so fixated with the idea of there being “proof”. Some things truly are (as of yet) unexplainable and beyond our comprehension. For example what interests me is the anecdotal evidence gathered from people who’ve momentary had “near death” experiences-how some of these patients/people where able to identity with terrifying detail what doctors and nurses we saying and visually doing when they themselves were clinically presumed “dead” How can such things be explained? And why is it that there is a universal/historical trend towards such ideas of “going into the light” seeing demons and angels and in dreams, having near death experiences etc. Coincidental psychoses? Or a slither of truth amongst a rubble of unexplainable phenomenon? It’s rather extraordinary if you ask me. One in which I have no answer for…I can only keep an open mind Allahu-Calam.

^-I'll be honest It really wasn't my intention to come across as diplomatic because in truth I was relaying my own personal ideas and a few critisms that exist when it comes to evolution. Because I've kind of read around the subject rather extensively I find it very difficult to completely disregard evolution as simply a "theory". Its rather interesting and is as yet one of the many "imginative" ideas as to the worlds creation thus far, but unlike Faith he brings to the table some sort measurable evidence which sure questionable at times (but that is the essence of science to learn-to adapt and to continue answering burning questions. Funny thing is-its been around for thousands of years and is more a philisophical understanding of the creation. Having said that there are very compelling evidence-which actually suggests that evolution can occur within a couple of hundred thousand years instead of billions as Darwin's initial idea is want to believe. (Look up the Fossil records within than lake thingy-magigy) But this by all means does not suggest there is not a creator who bore us each as is described within the quran. It simply means that perhaps we are unable to concieve how precisely this was done and mayhap its been simplified for our understanding? Symbolic even? Perhaps?.. Then again we are wont to believe that life simply burst forth from a primodial ooze-produced via atmospheric temperatures and components which have come together in a compressed matter. But where did this matter come from? Existence of its own accord? The Big bang? And where and why for example did the Big Bang occur and what was there before it? It all requires a sense of imgination-much like faith. So I find it rather ironic and amusing that people would sit on the "I'm smarter than you foolish-religionites " bandwagon-smack others with encyclopedias-when most of humanities most burning questions remain unanswered from an evidential point of veiw. We're all striving to understand so its best we sit back and take a more humbling route seen as though its never going to be clear as crystal. Those from a religous perspective also should sit back and not insult peoples intelligence. We're far more likely to understand things if we're not each trying to out-wit one another in the battle of bickering foolishness dee. I'm off now....peace iyo baris.

*Chuckles* God...can SOL get any g@yer? Marx- a friend of mine has a halaal sex shop in Southall. I could ask him for a blow up doll for you if your really interested. One which is battery powered and even comes complete with a Stephen Hawkins speech impediment. You'll have to download any intellectual discussions you'll have from the computer using your IPOD- I'll let you figure out where to insert the cable. Mind you dont insert the wrong instrument though.

LMAO!- Oh my...what a charmer. *Giggles*@passive aggresive.

Mucho-Apologies for the lateness in my reply people-life kind of has the uncanny ability to drown one in its tenticles of unearthy hurdles. Now that I am back... Chocolatehoney- I am to meet my husband at 12-o-clock midnight on EID DAY. The balls of lottery fury will at last choose for me the man who will be spending is dreaded fate with moi...I'm rather looking forward to it. Would you be my bridesmaid? Humble- What? And risk alienating loveable SOlers? Neigh...thats just not my style *grins*..Seems as though I've spooked them in anycase-that or they're keeping away from my sinfulself-lest I tempt them with evil. But what of you? You have not answered? ...what says you man? Sue- Precisely which is why your letting a ball- ie Allah decide. LOL..So how about it? Chubacka-very true, so whats the harm in putting all your eggs into one twisted basket of deathily fate? (nice to see your back by the way)

I really didn’t want to post anything here despite my initial like of this topic. I found it rather interesting and thought provokingly baffling even though I did find the notion of trying to argue the lords existence to atheists a rather naive if sweet and humorously beguiling idea. But You know… Some aspects of Evolution and so called comparative anatomy is not dissimilar to those wondrous fairy tales children hear in books. Why? Well do scientists not have to use their “imagination” to see how a certain muscle from a hind leg of a (50 million year old creature) would have moved in a creature deemed to be its modern day ancestor? An example of which is the that whole-Jurassic park bird fiasco that put it into the average Joes head that “birds” have indeed evolved from dinosaurs. Is that so? Well what was the evidence for this blasé attempt at understanding? Oh yes well its because one palaeontologist just happened to have found a Fossil (Archaeopteryx) which is thought to be the missing link between birds and reptiles,,,oh and because the fossil had tiny bits of teeth on its beak thus concluding the grand notion that birds came from Dinosaurs. Now what these paradigms of unearthly scientific splendour perhaps seemed to have forgotten at the time is that modern day geese for example have also got teeth, there are also some species of birds living today which have claws on their wings. So what I don’t understand is that how could such a notion have got through at actually science? Simply because of a superficial link one easilt comes to the conclusion that this is “proof” that birds came from dinosaurs? Well my friends there is no fossil record to date where one can make an irrefutable claim that for example birds came from dinosaurs and thus equally and more humorously (much to the disdain of eager-Darwinists) humans from a greater ape. Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that there isn’t excellent evidence in the form of natural selection- ie microevolution (small changes large beak-small beak-Galapagos studies) but macro-evolution? (leaving aside changes in genetic shift-and thus speciation-which is pretty interesting) Well its hard to just “believe” if the existence of a “water-tight” argument fails at a several hurdles. Ie, incomplete fossil records, genetic-irregulariti es (which is why neo-darwisnism came about because the initial theory of Darwin’s evolution-went against the basic principles of genetics altogether) …which brings me to idea of mutations if said mutations are to have a desired positive effect-ie for the purpose of natural selection? And thus survival then how come nearly every human mutation comes a direct result of “hindering” its subject. Ie Sickle cell (Don’t even mention the protective effects of malaria-when there is a 1 in four chance of conceiving a dead baby ie with fatal Sickle cell anaemia while the half carry it and other lot survives without the baggage of carrying a lethal condition. How on earth can that be a benefit? Another example is Down syndrome -you’d think that an increase in genetic material and thus increase in the complexity of an orgasm would enhance ones survival options as is suggested by Darwin’s own ideas but neigh-you find that quite the opposite, as today all significantly altering mutations existing within human actually occurs as a detriment to the species and not as an adaptive advantage. Furthermore to this-genetic alterations (mutations) can only ever occur within a set limit of existing genetic material and genetic material is not spontaneously produced like the X-men-(as Stan Lee’s Marvel Comics enterprise want to believe)…No, any deletions, duplications or crosslinking alterations which do occur all do so at the expense of shuffling about new information or…losing certain features/variations in a downward trend. Simply put- I will always be a black arsed qaxooti gazing up at the moon and much to my own chagrin will not sprout majestic wings Icarus himself would be proud of. So to conclude…Let us be open minded-critical but most of all allow us to learn more instead of boxing people in with either the Holier than art though angle (faith) or the I’m better that you kiss my @ss “scientific” route. That’s why I am of the supposition that one should be open to anything relatively stimulating not forgetting for which there is legitimate quantitative evidence-or the best we have at hand. Evolution being but one answer…That’s not to suggest that I don’t believe in Allah subxanawatacala. It just means that I’m human and Allah knows my limits and understands man obsession and desire to learn of his world and where he fits in it. Why then must I be forced to box myself into niches and notions which are and can never be in themselves perfect?…..Watch this space- science is progressive and we learn and find out new things everyday. Which is very much like faith-because no matter how much we try to intellectualise things and debauch our minds with philosophical musings humanity has always (through time) and will forever come to accept and lie in the bosom of there being something greater than themselves. That’s why I believe that humans are inherently agnostic instinctually so even-despite all reason and “logic” each of us still fight to believe in something. For even the belief in no god is in itself a remarkably contradictory belief structure. LOL Reminds me of a quote I once heard from Einstein, religion without science is blind and science without religion is boring. LOL I am not insulting religion or science. I’m simply saying that-there isn’t a clear answer either way and seen as though we’re all in it together perhaps it would be best to try to resolve things for which there is empirical evidence and leave aside (or leave for the heart) all else? Let us leave it at that. Now a question I find far more interesting is..this notion of free will and does it truly exist?

Che-for a bloke with a revolutionary nicname your unadventuress ileen. Plus think of the interest that kind of money can rack up every month for ten years. HUH? *shock* Did I just say that? And on Ramadan? Oh woe is me (slaps herself) In truth? I'd do it for free...just for kicks and just to see what would happen. I have a very curious imagination.