Abdi Samatar will find out like his brother that Somalia is a very corrupt country with little transparency. He will grow disillusioned with the 4.5 system and just leave for good with a bag full of money.

True. Which is why Somaliland cannot really function as a state until the concept of citizenship is a real thing. If you invest and build a company then the security of that company will depend on your connections and clan affiliation and not on the rule of law. This is one of the biggest hurdles facing Somaliland and it will not be an easy one to overcome. As for Somalia, well it has similar problems as well as terrorism.

Somalia's politics never seizes to amaze me, what a corrupt cesspool.

The time is now and the African Union should move forward with this as Somaliland has many things to get done.

Learn to mind your own business...otherwise you'll have your teeth kicked in.

What Somaliland chooses to do and not do is none of your business. Worry about Puntland and the over inflation of its currency.

It seems you know nothing about anything remotely geopolitical. The Turks are in NATO because they understand its benefits. The Arabs are destabilising Ethiopia because the renaissance dam project could cut off water for Egypt. There is nothing emotional about that. Only idiots and evil minded men in Mogadishu think because Tukey has built up and run the Mogadishu port and help get their degenerate ass off the ground somehow Turkey is here to help....utter fools!

You do know the soviet Government from 1960 until 1977 trained most of the Somali army right? You do know that when the Barre government started using said army against the population rebel groups sprung up right? You do know that this same army disintegrated and joined their respected clan militias when all out civil war erupted in Southern Somalia in 1991 right? Training military personal does not mean anything unless that personal can protect the country from chaos. Somalia is morally and ethnically bankrupt and will most likely fold overnight to any terrorist group with a mild will to win. Turkey does not care about anything other than what is good for Turkey.

Nothing meaningful will come from it. Since none of these African leaders have total control of their countries. Turkey is a NATO ally and will not do anything to compromise this reality.

What ever the scenario Somaliland would not fall under the boot of a terrorist organisation. They have no grassroot support and the government keeps a close eye on terrorist. The Taliban are like the TPLF, ELF, SNM or ZANu-PF in terms of organisation and success but nothing like that exist in Somalia so Somaliland is safe.

The Puntland clan re-joined afweyne when he stop attacking them and address their grievances. Nothing of the sort was given to Somalilanders. afweyne visited Hargeisa for the last time in 1984 to talk to the elders about the SNM but he returned back to Mogadishu and decided Habr clans were not worthy of consideration and intensified the war against the Somalilanders. 1. Nothing is holding Somaliland back, the people control their own government and hold trade conferences with other nations. What is holding the paper government of Somalia from letting go of Somaliland?...I know. 2. Yes to some extent it did. Somalilanders did not think that their tax dollars would be used to destroy their homes and businesses. Anyone in the world would be effected by this and the fact the Dar**d clans refuse to acknowledge their role in the evil is what continues to poison the failed state of Somalia.

You are right the paper "government" of Somalia will suffer the same fate as Ashraf Ghani but will Qatar welcome the corrupt Somali politicians and their ill gotten gains? Only time will tell...but I do believe as you do that once the money from U.N/U.S.A and E.U dry up the "government" will collapse.

1. I don't know for sure but I responded to his question as if he was. 2. I admit nothing and I am not wasting anyone's time. But the fact that none of the southern clans have any remorse or guilt about the actions of their respected government officials means that the future for the current "government" of Somalia is very dim. I concluded that Somaliland can not reconcile with such ethnical and moral failings and should move ahead with U.N membership. After all the Jewish people never reconciled with the Nazis nor did the Bosnians reconciled with Croatians. This is the logical conclusion that I have reached after reading the replies and if these replies are a proportional representation of the real world then the Somalia story has already ended and Somaliland is almost there in its pursuit of U.N membership and maybe this is the moral equaliser that will help the southern clans reflect on their character as being of a low nature. Somalis need wisdom and answers to their failings and maybe Somaliland can show the rest what moral and ethnics looks like in reality. I suspect it will be a hard lesson for them to digest and they may not be able to admit the gravity of the lesson as a whole just might be beyond their capacity. Thus the problem of Somalia was never Somalilanders but the bad actors and their evil supporters....that is all. Note: You can close the thread if you want moderators.

The root of this evil is your kin folk refusal to recognise the gravity of their moral failure. This prevents real progress for the failed state of Somalia.

The Americans could have used that money on turning Afghanistan into the next Dubai but they decided to waste it on fighting the Taliban. The only way to defeat medieval ideology is to provide people with jobs, education, homes, electricity and clean water. This would prevent a backward ideology from taking root.

That's weird since the Puntland clan made peace with Barre after he "plugged" their wells and killed their people, where they not the first rebel group to form? SSDF made peace with Barre after he address their concerns. The SNM were never given such treatment and the in fact the government felt the SNM clan needed to be put in their "place" and subjugated as he saw them as not his people. Did Barre ever consider talking to the SNM in 1981? Any civilised government would address the concerns of its citizens and not act in a hostile manner when such grievances are brought up to be addressed after all they live in the northern part of the same country. The Puntland clan were seen as closer to Barre and so were shown understanding but SNM were mistreated and its people experienced human right abuses because they were considered lesser and thus not part of the "in group". This evil is what destroyed Somalia and not fighting between government forces and rebel groups.

If you want Somalia to move forward into the light and leave behind the darkness it is currently in. Then you cannot do it without coming clean about the evil failure of Barre and his clan supporters . This will wash the pale blue flag from the innocent blood it is currently soaked it. Nothing is going to change Somalia for the better until his truth is confronted and dealt with.

Do you know the difference between clan motivated protest and a civil national protest of ordinary citizens? Siad Barre taught the Somali people there is no state where people can resolve their legitimate grievances in a peaceful way. The "state" is a private bank account of Mr Barre and his people only, this is what Barre showed the Somali people in a clear manner. Somalis at that time did not feel like the state was a system that could meet their needs but also the state became a destructive poison that was making life difficult for them. So they did the only option available to them....open war and total destruction of this state in order to gain freedom. This is a actually a logical response to all the human right abuses and singling out particular clans, as messed up as it is. The moral failures of the Barre's clan and his supporters is what as kept Somalia in a dysfunctional state to this day and not "the rebellion". Talking openly and discussing this moral and ethnical failure of the Barre government will help Somalis move forward from this evil episode of our history. BTW The Puntland clan help evacuate Barre out the back door back in 1991 when the USC entered Mogadishu. Abdillahi Yusuf later regretted inciting rebellion if it would lead to state collapse. But this "state" was a threat to Somalis not of the government clan.

Individuals standing up is one thing but what I am talking about is mass protest from the general population. The general population of the M.O.D clan alliance were in full support of the regime until the bitter end because like Xaaji Xunjuf said "they thought they would never lose power" which is why they never thought they would be held accountable for the human right abuses they inflicted on the population. Even to this day the M.O.D populace refuses to admit what they did was evil and amoral.

The M.O.D alliance govern in a corrupt and hostile manner when it came to meeting the needs of the Somali citizenry. The clans in power refused to stand up for righteousness and fairness and instead supported the regime against those the government hated. This mistake poisoned Somali society for good and made sure there could be no national resistance but a clan resistance to the state. I have explained my self numerous times and try to convey my arguments in a simple manner. My personal details are not important as my story is no more unique than a thousand other stories told by Somalis in the diaspora. My research is both from European and Somali sources. These sources are well know and a simple google research will bring up their research papers and books. I have no way of knowing if that is true. But there has been no healing in the real world for Somalis in general. The M.O.D clans need to come clean and apologies to the rest of the Somali nation and speak from a place of regret and ask the people for forgiveness. There will be no progress until the poison is removed first. People can make mistake but in order to move on there as to be accountability for those mistakes otherwise the abuse can happen again.

What am I talking about? I am talking about the moral and ethnical failure of the people from the M.O.D clans refusal to stand up and admit their horrible mistake of destroying Somali civil society by introducing and making it O.K to support your clan above all else. This is what I am talking about and it is a critical mistake which should not to be taken lightly.

I think Dr. Saad Ali Shire spoke well and made the case for Somaliland on an American media outlet. He educated the host on the reasons why Somaliland exist and how international recognition is justified.

I thought this was good interview by the finance minster of Somaliland.

Then who should be blame for the moral and ethnical failure of this clan? The M.O.D alliance clans did not speak out against the human right abuses of the regime. This lack of moral foresight prevented the issue from transcending clan loyalties. Do you not see this? In other countries where the dictator abuses his power the population raise up together in the national interest and remove the dictator from power, like in Romania. The reason why the same situation did not unfold in Somalia is simple the M.O.D clans were morally and ethnically bankrupt and this vacuum prevent any national unity from forming. Since M.O.D regime Ok'ed clan allegiance above national loyalty and state integrity. This mistake cost Somalis a nation state to call home for good.

This thread is intended to explore the refusal of Somalis to tackle the problems they face head on. The assignment of blame to one clan is important as it shows that the problem has a root. If the source cannot be identified in earnest and the actions of said group not understood there will be much confusion between the older generation and the younger. A universal truth needs to be synthesised from this state collapse and then taught to the Somali people has the lessons provide real wisdom as to how to prevent such a case from occurring again. Somalis have not learned these lessons because nobody has explained the relationship between cause and effect. In this case it would be the M.O.D clans that were in power and their failure to step forward and address the concerns of the Somali citizenry in a civilised manner. The resistance to the dictator would have been a Somali national one instead of it descending into clan rebel groups fighting to regain their "homeland" not understanding that Somalia is the only homeland we have. But the M.O.D group instead decided to engage in human right abuses against other clans. This decision change the course of Somalia's history for good and made sure the identity of the clan would always supersede the identity of the nation. I hope you understand this point as it is most critical. This also explains why Somalis in general cannot work or get alone with each other without first knowing the person's clan as this creates some easy in an other anonymous world. How do you expect to put Somalia back together again if the failure and evil of the M.O.D clans are not address? Let bygone be bygone is not enough and shaking hands can never heal the current Somalia. You may say that 30 years have passed and the moment is over and we are looking to the future. But this is simply window dressing the problem. There is someone to blame and that someone needs to come clean and apologise to the Somali people for making clan more important than nation. This is the simple truth even after all the analysis and data collecting is done. Then make sure the lessons are taught to future generations of Somalis if this wisdom is to be put to good use.