This is tiring wallahi. Ngonge, Saaxiib in general yes tossing ayat carelessly and without aim, context, or purpose is not only recless but also dangerous. However, in this case, I took Khayr's post as a reminder for all of us that following our whims could lead us to hell literally. That's how I read it. I agree with you saxib on this. When a debate is done for the sake of debating, when someone argues just to show and disapprove someone else, then the Shaytan takes over in the discussion and Dhikrul Allah is thrown out the window. In actuality, it becomes dhikr al-Xawa/Ego i.e. i am right and what I "think" etc. becomes the focal point. After all we are discussing religion, Islam in particular. We are disagreeing with each other and even some of us are arguing excessively to no avial. Some of us are implicitly asserting that "Islam is not coming" (note my boy JB's post) and they have their own "reasons" to say so. Ayat serving as a reminder, in this context, can only be beneficial methinks. Now, I prefer to reason and state my take, agree with my oponent when such action is warranted and if necessary back up my claims with evidences from my principal sources. Khayr is different character. May be he doesn't feel the necessity of going through such exercise or may be he is not clever enough to try to see things from other prespectives and put himself their shoes and try to understand what makes them tik! There is room for improvement, I say! I've been here since 2002 and people's nature's are the same and I have heard the same story retold over and over again, just not by the same characters. The net is not the proper forum for Taaleem, teaching deen because the Net fosters 1) Impatience in people (if it doesn't load up in 5 sec, it ain't worthy of viewing or listening to) 2) Anonymity-Meaning there is no real, substantive relationship that MOSTTTT people can develop with each other. Someone can say what they want and feel 'unaccountable' for their words. Therefor, the net is mostly for Entertainment purposes for most of us but as a muslim on SOL, I hate it when someone mocks the deen and muslims so they can Entertain themselves. Where I can interject, inshallah I will and sometimes an ayat or hadith will be quoted because it best illustrates a point that I am trying to make!!! Sometimes discussion for the sake of discussion when it lacks sincerity, becomes very redundant and tiresome. Fi AMANILLAH

Originally posted by Aeronwen: That's a totally awesome list Jamarel . It even makes me feel like going a step further and making like a doormat when he gets home so he can wipe his shoes on my pretty dirac. After years of Deniaaaaaaaaal, and many IDENTITY changessssss, you have come to over the RIGHT SIDE to assume your PROPER POSITION, Mashaallah, mabruuuuk and one more thing who is will be the LUCKY ONE to take that FIRST STEP!!!

Salamz, JazaAllah Khairun walaal for this post. Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Originally posted by 7 0f Nine: [25:43] Have you seen the one whose god is his own ego? Will you be his advocate? [25:44] Do you think that most of them hear, or understand? They are just like animals; no, they are far worse. Aad baa uu maxad qabta, this is the translation that I was looking for! So you think the verse suits the topic well? How so? Perhaps you can point the finger at the 'ego worshippers' who are worse than animals on this thread and let me know how you’ve arrived at that conclusion. While I understand where your disagreement with some of the participants on this thread comes from, its reprehensible to praise Kheyr and agree with him just to spite them. How dare he use God’s words to dismiss and insult others? Its hypocritical to let your own egos stand in the way of advising Kheyr to stop abusing the Quranic Texts. Since when is it acceptable to refer to other posters on this site like that? Infact, isn’t one of the fastest ways to leave Islam to proclaim that another muslim is ‘evil’ or ‘manifestation of Satan’? Here is a hadeeth to support this (and it 'fits my argument’ well) It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim] I would also like to tell you that nabigu scw never called any1 a kafir even on the grounds of not believing in his claims. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and I for one despise the one using my religion to give his claims a glow of authenticity by dipping into the holy texts that I hold in highest regard. [/QB] -Ayats of Quran was posted with no particular reference to ANY ONE NOMAD . So why do you and Ngonge have an issue with it??? :confused: In anycase, qadraAllah Mashaa Fa'al.

Originally posted by Roob: quote: I have no doubt that Ngonge means good in his critisim . I am afraid his posts state the contrary. With all due respect Baashi how did you come to that conclusion? Certainly not by reading his posts?! I think the saying goes 'THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL'

Salamz, Having read the various dialogues and exchanges in this thread, I couldn't help but remember these ayats: Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his (Xawa) own passion (or impulse)(Xawa can mean such desires are honour, fame, lust etc.) ? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him? Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path. Sura number 25:v. 43-v.44 Fi Amanillahhh

Salamz, Take what is easy and interesting to you for your Undergraduate studies and try to minimize your student loans, inshallah. Once finished your undergrad,you can do law school, med school, grad studies of your likings etc. and you will be better equipped, inshallah! I use to laugh at those 'physcology' majors at university but now, some of them have finished graduate schools and are doctors, lawyers and laughing with a few 000000 on their paycheque. So don't rush, do what is interesting and easy cause class don't start until you finish your 'UNDERGRADUATE STUDIES'. Fi Amanillah

Salams, Originally posted by Kruella: no matter how well we attempt to apply the law, Canadian law will always take precedent. So I don’t see the point of making a supreme divine law secondary to a man made law. and that is what they are trying to do...reitrate/restate over and over again the main point which is The Canadian law will supercede shariah arbitration decisions in areas where Shariah conflicts with Canadian law. i.e. Divorce, inhertance, wills etc. e.g. So if the Shariah gives more to sons in terms of inhertance then daughters and an arbitrator in family shariaw law gives that decision, then that can be considered Illegal according to Canadian, French, British law etc. and to contravene their Charter of Rights and state laws. Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Inshallah, the below quote will of some help to some nomands as this really is a topic about Gender Qualities and how they are defined ...it may be asked, is the meaning of the masculine character attributed to God by the Scriptures, and how can man -- the male -- accord all his love, naturally centered on woman, on a Divine Being who seems to exclude femininity? The answer to this is that the reason for the masculine character of God in Semitic monotheism signifies, not that the Divine Perfection could possibly exclude the feminine perfections (which is unthinkable), but simply that God is totality and not part, and this totality has its image, precisely in the human male, whence his priority with regard to woman -- a priority which in other respects is either relative or non-existent; it is indeed important to understand that the male is not totality in the same way that God is, and likewise that woman is not `part' in an absolute manner, for each sex, being equally human, shares in the nature of the other. If each of the sexes constituted a pole, God could neither be masculine nor feminine, for it would be an error of language to reduce God to one of two reciprocally complementary poles; but if, on the contrary, each sex represents a perfection, God cannot but possess the characteristics of both -- active perfection , however, always having priority over passive perfection. In Islam, it is sometimes said that man has a feminine character in relation to God; but from another point of view the doctrine of the Divine Names implies that the Divinity possesses all conceivable qualities, and if we see in the perfect woman certain qualities which are proper to her, she cannot have them except in so far as they are a reverberation of the corresponding Divine Qualities. Reference for the Quote It maybe asked here as to what nomads see as a Masculine quality and Feminine quality Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Originally posted by Baashi: Is "manliness" in decline? If the answer is affirmative, what caused this decline? If the answer is negative, how can one explain the rise of "girly men"? Is "manliness" in decline? Yes If the answer is affirmative, what caused this decline? LIBERALISM and the notion of Individualism. What does Liberalism assert/Say? >That 'TOLERANCE AND ACCEPTANCE' is the norm Well, who indicates what to Tolerant and Accept? >The SOCIETY, the Masses determine this through Taboos i.e. This is not acceptable cause it look, feels bad,sick, horrible etc. (Judgement based on Personal Opinionation aka Xawa). If you have Liberalism, then what is RIGHT AND WRONG IS RELATIVE and SUBJECT TO CHANGE So Values are not permanent...teachings are not permanent....nothing is Permanent!!! So if 'Society determines what is right and wrong' then as long as it ain't 'HURTING' no one, A man can become a Women, a WOmen can become a Man, gay unions are possible...sex btwn parent and child is possible (its a social taboo now, but give it time!)..... Everything becomes Relativised and subject to CHANGE. So what does this lead to when What is Right and Wrong depends on the 'PEOPLE', THE Democractic Liberal Population??? Plain and Simple-CONFUSIONNNNN What is True is a Lie and what is a Lie is True !!! Fi Amanillah

Originally posted by NGONGE: Your faith is your responsibility and YOURS alone. If you stray, sin or misbehave it IS your fault and not that of the media, western influences or whatever other convenient coat hanger you can find. Temptations and evil are everywhere and not only in ‘kuffar’ lands. There are no conspiracy theories and even if there are, they do not matter. When all is said and done, it’s you and you alone that will get put six feet under. Neither your culture, nor your pride or even your ‘Islamic identity’ will be buried with you. When the time that you keep threatening everyone with comes, and it is your turn to be judged, does it not worry you that you spent most of your life trying to label everyone as a deviant; a mushrik; a kaffir; a weak Muslim or a good Muslim? Would it not have been better to call people back into the way of Allah with good, gentle words and deeds? There is a middle ground..... So are you in favour of a PERSONAL RELIGION? A Personal Spirituality? a Personal GODDDDDD???

Originally posted by Johnny B: Socod_badne, please since brother kheyr insists shooting it from the angle of a muslim (as if we lack Muslims here ) refrain from answering his questions dealing specefically with Islam, just for the sake of a healthy debate, Scientists have a tendency of stepping on ppl´s toes I all Admit this- I come with a Religious Bias and Alhamdulillah for that... and JB, Socod_badne and others who speak similiar words come with a PRO-MODERN,PRO-SCIENTISM, PRO-INTOLERANCE FOR METAPHYSICS biasss!!! The two dimensional world of creationisim and it´s tendency to cut short to reach a quick result in an otherwise complex universal issue is a drawback, but ironically natural and well-known shortcomming in the human way of thinking in the three dimensional world of science and nature. Religion says-ALLAHU AKBIR (GOD IS GREATER) -Is Multi-Dimensional b/c GOD's will is ALWAYS GREATER Scientism says-MAN IS GREATER which is Shirk. -It is Uni-Dimensional and Self-serving and infact is a Lie woven in web of lies under the guise of 'Complexity'. Our pursuit to wisdom by intellectual means is the source of our assumptions whereby the need to pursue knowledge through science is the outstanding one in a complex universe becouse of it´s ability to demosnterate and validate facts and realities as they appear in the eye and mind of the beholder. Our pursuit to wisdom by intellectual means is the source of our assumptions If you mean Intellectual means such as Emperical evidence which modern science relies on as the MAIN Source of Knowledge, then you are wrong b/c Wisdom is gained from the 'HIGHER' through REVELATION and not through our Hubris, our Self-serving mechanisms and thoughts.

Salaamz, Call it what you want: Evolution, Quantum Physics, Relativity etc. They common underlining principles: 1) Constant Change & Uncertainity -Since there is no 'Permanance' and constant evolution exists, then there is no 'Universal End' to 'Matter'. Therefor no pre determined destination, hence total Freewill. Taqdeer is negated. 4) Non-Permenance and Negation of Hierarchy Modern physics also presents a radically different view of the subatomic world from the simple atomism of classical physics, which considered nature to be comprised of indivisible particles—that is, atoms (from atomos, meaning literally “indivisible†in Greek). At the beginning of the twentieth century physicists looked for “ultimate†building particles of matter, and many continue to do so today. But as more and more particles came to be discovered in addition to protons, electrons, and neutrons there now exists such an array of particles, called by some physicists “a particle zoo,†that many have given up on the idea of finding the “ultimate’ particles or building blocks of matter, and rather envisage a vast ocean of energy from which different particles with various lifetimes issue forth and into which they disappear.9 One might say that whereas Newtonian physics saw an order underlying what appears outwardly as chaos in the perceptible world, for quantum mechanics there is chaos or at least an unknowable reality underlying the order of macro-and even micronature. Quoted from this page IF there is not an 'Unknown Reality', a 'Start', then we can not say that 'Matter' has Hierarchy and that it actually 'DEVOLVES' from 'TOP DOWN'. Science says that it 'EVOLVES' from 'Down to TOP', a constant progression because their is no 'ABSOLUTE' starting point, there is but Entropy, spontaneous change. Also, since their exists spontaneous change, then their can not exist an ONTHOLOGY, a relation to ALL things because their is no 'ABSOLUTE' starting point and the Universe is composed of 'RANDOM COLLECTION of PARTICLES'. 5) Individualism and Notion of Progress If there is no ONTHOLOGY, no interconnectedness to all that EXISTS because science says there 'NO ABSOLUTENESS', ALL IS RELATIVE, then MAN is to act on this EARTH, INDEPENDANT of THERE Surroundings. IF there is no ONTHOLOGY (INTERCONNECTEDNESS OF ALL PARTICLES), then WHAT MAN DOES and SAYS, is INDEPENDANT FROM MANS ACTIONS AND BEHAVIOURS. HENCE, the creation of the Idea of INDIVIDUALISM which basically states that 'MAN IS HIS OWN GOD, THE CREATOR OF HIS OWN DESTINY'. This is why we hear such notions as: * 'DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO? * You can do ANYTHING that you want? * I AM MY OWN PERSON * Believe in what YOU WANT etc. Where does Progress come in? Progress is the simple idealogy that MAN is EVOLVING, HAS HIS OWN DESTINY IN HIS HANDS, there is no ABSOLUTE BEING aka GOD because we can not determine this through EMPRICAL evidence , therefor, MAN is HIS OWN GOD, RULER OF HIS OWN DESTINYYY. (DOES THAT SOUND LIKE SHIRK saying that the RELATIVE (MAN) is the ABSOLUTE (GOD)??? Science says 'RESEARCH FOR THE SAKE OF RESEARCH, DEBATE FOR THE SAKE OF DEBATE' Religion says 'DHIKR-UL-ALLAH is the SOURCE of ALL DEBATES. IF something is not leading you to 'Rememberance of GOD', then it is taking you away from your purpose which is to be 'A SERVANT OF GOD' Fi Amanillah

Salamz, SOCOD_BADNE[ Creationists DON'T believe in deterministic world. Afterall, creation theory is inconsistant with natural laws of our world. Religion says- TO EVERYTHING THERE IS A BEGINNING Science- WE COME FROM NOTHINGNESS AND WE END IN NOTHINGNESS Creation theory is more consistance with Natural Laws because it states that self evident TRUTH that SCIENTISM wants to DENY "TO EVERYTHING THERE IS A BEGINNING AND AN END" TIME IS CYCLIC AND NOT LINEAR , so when something Blossoms at one point in TIME, it has to go through the LIFE CYCLE (Birth, Growth, Death/DECAY) Evolution and Scientism denies this self-evident REALITYYYY! SOCOD_BADNE There are self-sustaining systems that have neither a cause nor a start! THAT WOULD MAKE THEM SUPRA, DIVINE, A GOD! and if that is what you are saying, then you are negating TAWHID!!! For if 'There is no Reality (GOD) but the Reality (GOD), There is no Seperation from GOD with what is CREATED, call it Matter or whateva... HOW CAN YOU MAKE SUCH A STATEMENT, especially if you are a Muslim??? :confused: CASTRO/FIDEL, until the day god descends onto earth, Darwin's theory, however flawed or incomplete, will hold the upper hand. Until there's no more reliance on any leaps, of faith or otherwise, the knowledge we have of the universe and the tools we've acquired to measure that knowledge will reign supreme. How could such statements come from a Muslim or a Bani Adam??? :eek:

Salaamz, Originally posted by NGONGE: However, in our every day life we come across a hundred issues and predicaments. They’re not an issue of belief. They are questions we have to deal with all on our own with only ‘guidance’ from the Quran and Sunna. There is no certainty there. Salamz, First of All, Islam is a deen based on Submission. Submitting to what? Your Will, your nafs to What Allah and is rasul have brought Doubt does occur in the mumin over and over again but you should not make DOUBT a central part of your quest in Islam. Reflection and Dhikr-ul-Allah-YES Doubt-NO Now why does this doubt occur sometimes? The muslim mind today does not live in a deen oriented world anymore, so GOD IS VERY MUCH ISOLATED from the Picture in our daily lives. What I mean by this is that there is no ONTOLOGY, connectingtogether EVERTHING. We have been dupped by Cartesian Dualism which tells us to look at the WORLD SEPERATELY, as OTHER, Nature to be seperate from MAN, The Private to be seperate from the Public meaning what we do 'DOES NOT EFFECT' others GOD is not a REALITY in our lives and is only to be viewed as 'OTHER', a very distant BEING. It is this Cartesian Dualism, seperating the relationship, interconnectedness between the KNOWER and the KNOWN, that creates DOUBT in not only the Muslim Mind but the average 21st century human. Unfortunately, the Ulama of today fall into this error to where they don't teach ONTOLOGY to their students, to the masses because they themselves don't live in a DEEN ORIENTED WORLD anymore, so they too find it difficult to CONNECT THINGS TOGETHER and not to VIEW ALLAH as something DISTANT and not to view DEEN as something DISTANT. This is where Modern Science has twisted and warped us to the point that in Muslim Educational Institutions, Sacred Knowledge is limited to a few things. Subjects such as science or latin or mathematics or physics are not taught with a 'SACRED CIRRICULM' in mind. Fi Amanillah

Salams, Originally posted by NGONGE: When Galileo said that the Earth is not the centre of the universe and that is revolves around the Sun, he was vilified and put under house arrest. He did not question God; he questioned the teachings of the church. I believe in questioning things. If they’re good, they’ll stand up to scrutiny and if they’re flawed, they’ll crumple like the church’s theory crumpled in the face of Galileo’s proof. Galileo committed a grave error in his line of thinking, finding because he wanted to invalidate the Christian view of the universe that taught that the Earth was the centre of the Universe, Center of the Cosmos and by saying that the 'Earth' was not the CENTER of the Cosmos, Galileo was saying that MAN is just a mere creature among others and that MAN is not what RELIGION definies MAN to be. For if Earth is not the Center of the Universe, then what the Scriptures say is INVALID and infact a 'LIE' and MAN is not connected to the HEAVENS but rather just one small, unconnected part of the Cosmos. The View from NOWHERE 'MAN is disengaged from teh world in which he is ineluctably included and able to the world by himself from a God like vantage point' Reference Page On another note, The term 'INTELLECTUAL' is a modern that is often affliated with MODERN and often Agnostic, if not outright Atheist thinkers. So Imam Shafiic, would be considered an ALIM and not an Intellectual. As muslims, we have our own terminology to describe our leading thinkers and sages. To be cont'd..... Fi Amanillah

Salaamz, Originally posted by NGONGE: If my understanding of your words is correct then this promises to be a timely and great topic. Without meaning to disrupt the topic too much, I’ll only add that doubt is a good thing. Doubt encourages questions and those in turn lead to answers. He that seeks the truth will come across many answers. If the truth is what you seek you wont be satisfied with any old replies. Doubt will be with you all the way. Doubt of the way things are done and rituals followed is what I’m talking about. Doubt of the existence of a creator is a trickier concept altogether. Other than the doubt found in my last sentence, I believe all other instances of doubt are beneficial. Now certainty on the other hand... doubt is a good thing Below is a link to something that I wrote about this before on SOL. ABOUT DOUBTING In modernity/post-modernity, the fact that you 'DOUBT' is often equated with INTELLIGENCE and ENCOURAGED. Doubt of the way things are done and rituals followed is what I’m talking about. In Deen and in particular Islam, we are commanded to 'HEAR AND OBEY' and not 'HEAR AND DOUBT' OR 'HEAR AND QUESTION'. This is a religion based on Revelation and Authority and not on 'AGNOSTICISM' or 'SOPHISTRY'. When Jibriel camed down with the QURAN to the rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm), the commands to 'READ' did not have the clause of 'IF YOU WANT TO'. We can't live on doubt, most of us have some ilm al -yaqin (knowledge of certainty) meaning throught the knowledge that we have aquired through Quran and Sunnah and the Islamic Tradition-we can achieve CERTAINTY. NGONGE, So if you are a SUPPORTOR OF DOUBT, then how do you know what is RIGHT or WRONG? How do you live a life of WHYSSSS??? Fi Amanillah

Originally posted by Pucca: quote:...I would say its isn’t just in the eyes but in the taste, the feel, the moment, the touching, the talking, mannerism and the smell now aint that something, so now ppl got to smell,feel and taste(taste in fashion or someother taste?) a certain way to be beautiful?. :rolleyes: THEN THAT WOULD MEAN THAT "ALL IS GOOD" AND THAT THERE IS NO EVIL, NO HARM, NO UGLYNESS khyr, "everything allah creates is beautiful" has nothing to with something/someone being evil. WHAT ARE YOU SAYING HERE-THAT WHAT ALL THAT ALLAH CREATES IS BLESSED??? Then that would mean that EVERYTHING IS HALAL B/C AFTER ALL IT IS BEAUTIFUL, IT its like he doesn't even read things right..*shakes head* beautiful DOESN'T equal blessed; as for the halal stuff, well um does a beer bottle look ugly? :rolleyes: WHAT ABOUT THE STRIPPER? IS SHE BEAUTIFUL? OR THE MURDER-ARE THEY BEAUTIFUL? OR THE ONE LEGGED BABY yes the stripper is beautiful (thats why she's a stripper!) yes the one who kills is also beautiful (his deed dont make his physical appearance look ugly) and the one legged baby is HOT!! i cant believe you'd ask that! thats someone's child, and missing a leg doesn't ruin the overall beautiful of that child! nuff said. we're all beautiful, even you...now smile already! yes the one who kills is also beautiful (his deed dont make his physical appearance look ugly) A person does indeed becomes UGLY when they commit Murder because that NUR and GRACE that Allah gave them is taken away due to their participation in the heinous act of MURDERR. They disobeyed Allah and transgerresed against Divine Commandments. As for the stripper, she too is ugly because what she is disobeying Allah and dishonoring herself too. Her actions are leading her away from Allah. As for the one legged baby, if that was beautiful, then it would be recommeded for Bani Adam to have one legged babys and not become a creature on 2 feet any longer. Why, if that was beautiful than for muslims, it would become part of the sunnah, for the jews, part of the abrahmic tradition and the christians, part of their christining cermony for newborns etc. So Pucca, what that teacher told you is very ambigous and infact contrary to REVELATION/Relgions because NOT EVERYTHING THAT ALLAH CREATED IS BEAUTIFUL. What ALLAH WILLS is not necessarily in line with what HE COMMANDS!!! Fi Amanillah

Salams, Your real concern should be 'IS THIS RELATIONSHIP DRAWING ME TOWARDS ALLAH FURTHER FROM ALLAH???' If you are able to answer this question easily, then there is a problemmmm because that question should HAUNT you and make you reflect over and over again. Fi Amanillah

Salams, Ya ikhwati, thanx for the response but I think that if you are MARRIED, you would have a very different view and response, wal Allahu yaclim! I didn't mention about mother in laws, I was refering to the 'MOTHER' of the husband in particular. I heared the other day of some nightmarish stories where this girl b/c she was xameery, the mother and the mother's sisters made life difficult for the girl such that the girl was DRIVEN OUT before the Wedding Day aka Runaway Bride....AND all b/c the groom's family was from Somaliland and she was xaamary. They made up terrible rumours about her and to this day they do.... FI Amanillah

Salams, Just wanted to ask nomads if they ever came across a 'CONTROL FREAK MOTHER' that has come in btwn someone's marriage??? If Yes, how did you react towards them? Are they still a 'CONTROL FREAK MOTHER'? Fi Amanillah

[QB] student:"sir, if allah loves all things beautiful and He is beautiful; that must mean that everything He creates must be beautiful too right?" teacher:"correct." THEN THAT WOULD MEAN THAT "ALL IS GOOD" AND THAT THERE IS NO EVIL, NO HARM, NO UGLYNESS :eek: student: "so then we really can't say some people are ugly because Allah created them...and he wouldn't create ugly people if He frowns upon what's ugly right?" teacher: "correct, everyone's beautiful" WHAT ARE YOU SAYING HERE-THAT WHAT ALL THAT ALLAH CREATES IS BLESSED??? Then that would mean that EVERYTHING IS HALAL B/C AFTER ALL IT IS BEAUTIFUL, IT IS BLESSED-RIGHT? :confused: student: "so we can't call people ugly even if they look ugly to us because Allah created them beautiful, right?" teacher: "correct" WHAT ABOUT THE STRIPPER? IS SHE BEAUTIFUL? OR THE MURDER-ARE THEY BEAUTIFUL? OR THE ONE LEGGED BABY? *convo actually took place.* we're all beautiful...even you [/QB} Fi Amanillah

Salaams, Originally posted by Shirwac: Beauty is relative. We'll elaborate this further from different angles insha-allah Beauty is Relative meaning You and I define WHAT IS BEAUTIFUL??? Let's take a step in the other direction, and define the opposite of BEAUTY which is UGLYNESS What is ugly and what influences most our definition of what is ugly? a) Society b Relgion c) Individual In deen, what is UGLY is what is shunned and forbidden by Allah and his rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) because Uglyness is =/Equeated with what is Shaytanic and that which takes you away from Allah, that which Allah did not Bless. So if we are to use this definition for Uglyness, then can the definition of Beauty be RELATIVE??? If the deen definies uglyness as that which Allah and his rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) FROWN UPON, then BEAUTY must be that which ALLAH AND HIS RASUL salallahu caliyhe wasilm) LOVE AND ADORE for as the hadith goes ALLAH IS BEAUTIFUL AND HE LOVES BEAUTY SO if Beauty is in theee EYEEE of the BEHOLDERRR , what are you really stating.....

Salaams, I just want to ask a question to the SOL nomads and those that might be viewing this site. IS BEAUTYY IN THE EYYE OF THE BEHOLDERR??? Inshallah, if we approach the question from different angles then we can have an interesting debate/discussion and Beauty can be defined in many ways but then again....

Salams, Religion is not immune to bad habits. In fact, a religion with creaky foundations is the nucleus of all bad habits ; sporadic and patchy knowledge invites bad habits. Nonetheless, many of the worst offenders cite religion as the pantheon of all good habits! Many seem to believe that no good habits existed before the revelation of their own faith! A Christian would quote Jesus, a Jew Moses and (many of our fellow) Muslims habitually bore us with tales of Islamic good deeds. More often than not, these stories are out of context or incomplete. The reason? BAD HABITS. Religion is not immune to bad habits. In fact, a religion with creaky foundations is the nucleus of all bad habits :eek: Saxib I am a little confused here, :confused: CAN YOU NAME SOME OF THESE RELIGIONS??? There are countless pre-Islamic poems and verses written on the subject of bad habits, mostly disparaging such habits and vilifying their holders. Dishonesty, impertinence, anger, haste, fraudulence, tediousness and a dozen other vile habits are mocked and ridiculed. The old non-believers despised them; the sporadically learned Muslims embrace them! How could one get over such bad habits? "Dishonesty, impertinence, anger, haste, fraudulence, tediousness and a dozen other vile habits are mocked and ridiculed." So let me get this, sporadically learned Muslims are not Believers and are infact Munafiqs cause Dishonesty is not a characteristic of a Believer/Mumin or Are you just saying that those that DISAGREE WITH YOU (with a Pro-Traditional Islam inclination)HAVE BAD HABITS (and precisely the fact that they disagree with YOU is a 'Bad Habit'??? The storytellers of today use them to lend weight and piousness to their work but display no morals in the stories they tell. Worse still, the stories are regularly sprinkled with sayings of prophets and verses from holy books, therefore compounding the misdeeds. NGONGE, I have only QUOTED you saxib this time around. Fi Amanillah