Salamz, Originally posted by Ducaqabe: quote:Originally posted by Khayr: "The most hateful halal (permissible thing) to Allah is divorce". This hadith is said to be weak, daciif. Check the source brother. The fact that a HADITH is 'Daaef/WEAK' does not negate the WISDOM that it can contain for afterall, it is still considered a HADITH (a saying of the rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm)) and if it is parallel In line, In agreement with the teachings of the Deen ) then there is khair in it, inshallah. For in Islam, the preservation of the family unit leads to preservation of the Ummah and its members. If the Family Institution is broken up, then whats to stay who will keep the Muslim Lineage and expand the Ummah from Within i.e. muslim children. Children will be more unlikely to respect 'SINGLE PARENTS' because if they can't keep a 'MARRIAGE TOGETHER', children will doubt a Divorcee's PARENTAL ABILITIES. Fi Amanillah

Originally posted by Femme.: Unless a person died within a hospital, autopsy is performed on the deceased body regardless of the wishes of family/relatives to rule out foul play. They want to know the cause of death and whether it was natural, accidental, or homicide. What if this is conflict with Religious Beliefs? small insurance policy may be purchased to cover the cost of a funeral and burial. It makes sense as those grieving shouldn't have to worry about costs when they've just lost a loved one. In fact, it is very convenient as funeral homes work with insurance companies much like auto repair shops to make it a seamless event. Castro, An Insurance Policy is the MODERN answer to alot of issues these days....societal, family responsibilities are thrown out the door. Religious institutions don't provide the support that these 'Insurance Companies' promise to 'OFFER'. I believe that the masajids need to offer this service as a 'qarda hasna' aka goodly loan to the muslim community and reasonable repayment terms can be negotiated. Bury the dead first, then ask for money....and expect to provide more of a Service that will not generate 'break even' stats. The Ajar and the fullfillment of the duty can't be 'QUANTIFIED' I.E. $$$ !!! Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Originally posted by Katrina: Salaam, I need a quick and accurate answer, please! What is Islam's ruling on divorcing a pregnant wife? For those who live in America, can you confirm how the Somali mosques rule on those issues?? Thanks a million... A midwife told me once that martial problems often start during pregnancies and though it might be true, it probably is not a time to be 'SELFISH' but rather MORE ACCOMADATING during a pregnancy. .... In Islam, what leads to Tawheeed is preferred i.e. Unity and what leads to Division is abhorred, at the least-frowned upon. "The most hateful halal (permissible thing) to Allah is divorce". Something about Divorce in Islam to assist nomads I would say more but like always am strapped for time and internet access. Fi Amanillah

Salamz, I like the site that you got that article from. After mating, the male immediately abandons the hen, leaving her responsible for the total care for the chicks. For the single mother-to-be, there is no assistance, either in the form of a partner or child support. Nor is there any legal recourse. It's despicable." "Then, when it's time for the bull moose to complete the sexual act," Tannen continued, "it's over in about five seconds, with no regard to female pleasure whatsoever. Typical." Adding insult to injury, Tannen said, the bull moose then heads off to mate with dozens more females over a period of two to three weeks, justifying his behavior as "part of the Mardi Gras-like atmosphere of 'mating season.'" So why do they call men DOGS then? :rolleyes:

Salaamz, While I was reading this afternoon, I stumbled on this ayat that stood out for me and inshallah provides a few glimmers of hope يأَيّÙهَا الَّذÙينَ ءَامَنÙواْ Ø¥ÙÙ† تَنصÙرÙواْ اللَّهَ يَنصÙرْكÙمْ ÙˆÙŽÙŠÙثَبّÙتْ أَقْدَامَكÙمْ O you who believe! If you support (the cause of) Allah, He will support you and make your foothold firm.) What a wonderful ayat!!!

Salamad, runti, taas waa xasoos! My mother would play those tapes from ayeeyo and the haber yaroo's over and over..over again...usually until the tape got eaten up by the cassette player. When it was our turn, we would become actors and 'radio personalities' when sending these tapes back to somalia..Take 1...Take 2...Take afar baqol iyo labantan... Your mother wants a divorce, again! She still claims that I have not looked after her as I promised and that I lied to her as a fifteen-year-old girl when I told her that, in ten years’ time, we would be millionaires! Now how many somali husbands have heard those lines before.... We heard in the radio that the level of literacy in our town is 88%! Everyone in town disputes that figure. We all voted in the election and everyone had those blue stains for weeks. We finally agreed that the 88% figure includes all our sons and daughters that have moved away (like you). I also, secretly, knew it includes your silly brother and the wretched maid. Oodhayasha never everrr take the blame...its a rule-farax couldn't have done it, so jamma is responsible but jamma points at Axmed and his kids ...etc. Tolstoy, To every story, there are a few lessons to be learned from or as you say 'MORAL POSTIVISM'. Some these 'MORAL POSTIVISMS' that I see are: -Role of the father -Relation btwn the father and the son (that has been greatly strained and replaced with single mothers and sons etc.) -The belief that those who moved to the 'WEST' (ref.-China cups sent from American) are the 'GUIDING LIGHT' for the somali family b/c they have gone out to see 'KNOWLEDGE' and a 'BETTER LIFE' for their families. -The belief that your neighbourhood, city, country etc. was the CENTER of the WORLD (This is not true because our sense of time and distance has dramatically changed!) more can be said ofcourse.... Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Has any nomad wondered about how funnerals are done-HOW MUCH A FUNERAL COSTS? While I was making a phone call today and found out from one masjid, that you have to pay a few grand (e.g. $2000) BEFORE the marxoom is buried. No Money, No Burial! :eek: So it got me thinking, how do people pay for funeral services in the muslim community? I am aware that for non-muslims, they can pay through 'FINANCING' via the Funeral Home but how are muslims prepared for such an occassion? For somalis, is a fundraising done for the marxoom's family to pay for the burial? Nomads, your assistance would be greatly appreciated! Fi Amanillah

Can you msg me the Passowrd to the league. I think that it is one of the reasons folks didn't join yet.

Salamz, Advertise it in the GENERAL SECTION first. I will sign up inshallah.

Walaal, Illahi Sabir iyo iman xaa kuu seeyo, inshallah!

Salamz, You mean I could look like a 'White Man' and all my troubles in life would be drastically reduced. This sounds very satanic and 'Frankstein' like. One lie leads to another and....another and....another...it never ends!

Salamz, Allahubanee, So do Mr. Fateh and Mr. Parvez compare to Bashir Goth for you. and to the other nomads.... Is their a 'CHILL on 'regressive' muslims' ?

Originally posted by Aeronwen: quote:Originally posted by Khayr: what stage this is set up for but rather to make a mockery of Muslims and Divide them up more and more. Muslims can hardly blame others when they are the ones busy killing and dividing themselves. Is that right....interesting revelation Check below article KABUL — The U.S. military and the Afghan government said today they will investigate a TV report that claimed U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan burned the bodies of two Taliban fighters, taunting other Islamic militants. The U.S. military said it found the report "repugnant." A spokesman for President Hamid Karzai said the government has launched its own inquiry. "We strongly condemn any disrespect to human bodies regardless of whether they are those of enemies or friends," said Karzai spokesman Karim Rahimi. Australia's SBS television network broadcast video that purportedly showed U.S. soldiers burning the bodies of the suspected Taliban fighters in the hills outside the southern village of Gonbaz, near the former Taliban stronghold of Kandahar. The network said the video was taken by a freelance journalist, Stephen Dupont, who told The Associated Press he was embedded with the army's 173rd Airborne Brigade earlier this month. Dupont said the burnings happened Oct. 1. In the video, two soldiers who spoke with American accents later broadcast taunting messages that the SBS said targeted the village, which was believed to be harboring Taliban soldiers. Dupont said the soldiers responsible for the loudspeaker broadcasts were part of a U.S. army psychological operations unit. The U.S. military said the Army Criminal Investigation Division had opened an investigation into alleged misconduct that included ``the burning of dead enemy combatant bodies under inappropriate circumstances." "This alleged action is repugnant to our common values," Maj.-Gen. Jason Kamiya said in a statement from the U.S. base in Bagram, Afghanistan. "This command takes all allegations of misconduct or inappropriate behaviour seriously and has directed an investigation into circumstances surrounding this allegation." Islamic clerics warned protests may break out, though there was no sign of unrest by this afternoon. The last anti-American riots were in May and killed 15 people. "This is against Islam. Afghans will be shocked by this news. It is so humiliating," said Faiz Mohammed, a Muslim leader. "There are very, very dangerous consequences from this. People will be very angry." Gen. Mohammed Zahir Azimi, spokesman for the Afghan Defence Ministry, said those responsible must be punished. Police in Shah Wali Kot district, where Gonbaz village is located, said hundreds of Taliban rebels are believed to be hiding in camps in the mountainous region. "It is a near certainty that the Taliban will ambush vehicles in this area," said Abaidullah Khan, the district police chief. "We only go there with American forces. It's not safe otherwise." According to a transcript of the television program, the broadcast by soldiers from the psychological operations unit called the Taliban "cowardly dogs." "You allowed your fighters to be laid down facing west and burned. You are too scared to come down and retrieve their bodies," said one message, according to the transcript. Muslims in Afghanistan face west, toward Mecca, when they pray. When the dead are buried, their heads point to the north, their feet to the south, and just their faces toward Mecca. Cremation of bodies is not part of Islamic tradition, which calls for remains to be washed, prayed over, wrapped in white cloth and buried within 24 hours. Dupont said the soldiers who burned the bodies claimed they did so for hygienic reasons. However, he said the incendiary messages later broadcast by the U.S. army psychological operations unit indicated they were aware that the cremation would be perceived as a desecration. "They used that as a psychological warfare, I guess you'd call it. They used the fact that the Taliban were burned facing west (toward Mecca)," Dupont told SBS. "They deliberately wanted to incite that much anger from the Taliban so the Taliban could attack them.... That's the only way they can find them." The SBS report suggested the deliberate burning of bodies could violate the Geneva Conventions governing the treatment of enemy remains in wartime. Under the Geneva Conventions, soldiers must ensure that the "dead are honourably interred, if possible according to the rites of the religion to which they belonged." Furthermore, the rules state that bodies should not be cremated, ``except for imperative reasons of hygiene or for motives based on the religion of the deceased." If you were shown more of this on BBC, FOX news, CNN etc. more often, would you have the same response!!! we usually DEFECATE What we are fedddd with!!!!!

Salamz, Just wanted to ask the nomads of their fav. site for fantasy basketball and if nomads in here would be interested in starting a 'FANTASY Basketball Pool'. Who knows, we could extend it to reg. football, american football, etc. Fi Amanillah

Originally posted by Socod_badne: Hatemongering from holy prelates?!?!? I don't know about that but if you live in Gaal land and it is unlawful to utter accusations of apostasty, then you shouldn't accuse. That is my view, respect the laws of the nation you reside in or leave. [/QB] Hatemongering??? I wonder what you would of consider Umar ibn Al-Khattab (r.a.) If I am not mistaken, there is a rule in Islam that says 'NO OBEDIANCE TO THE CREATURE, IN DISOBEDIANCE TO ALLAH!' Meaning that there is a limit to respecting the lawsss of the nation you reside in or leave. If something that is Haram is made Halal and Vice Versa, then as a muslim, you are not obliged to ressspect that particular law. You can flatout say-IT IS AGAINST MY RELIGION! Fi Amanillah

Salamz, I cant help but to wonder I can't help but to wonder I can't help but to wonder what stage this is set up for but rather to make a mockery of Muslims and Divide them up more and more. Saddam is now considered the 'SUNNI' and the shia and kurd are considered the 'Liberated people'. I can't help but to wonder I can't help but to wonder I can't help but to wonder Since, was it more appropriate to call All those followed Saddam in Iraq to be Sunni instead of 'Saddam's Supporters' The legend of 'Zarqawi' plays very, very well for its co-authors!!! Brown, saxib, remember when you get stopped at the Airport or looked at strangely, it isn't solely because you are Somali but rather you fit the profile of a MUSLIM. So any affairs dealing with Muslims, does impact you. Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Lidia and Tolstoy, I haven't forgotten to respond to your 'ESSAYS', its just that I have limited usage of internet but inshallah, maybe after iftaar, time permitting-inshallah!

Salamz, CAAIIRRO — Acrosss tthe Arrab wworld, some watched intently as Saddam Hussein went on trial Wednesday for crimes against Iraqis but others seemed not to care — a sign the former Iraqi leader still divides this region two years after his fall. The region's influential satellite television networks, Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, carried non-stop coverage starting hours before the trial began. Pan-Arab newspapers like al-Hayat also splashed the opening day on their front pages. But Saudi Arabia's Arabic language-daily Al-Watan used the headline: "Saddam's Trial: No one cares" and added: "The curtains have opened, the cast is ready and the audience is busy with other issues. Even if we concede that the majority of Iraqis hate Saddam, they also hate how things have developed." In Kuwait, which Saddam invaded in 1990, feelings in support of the trial ran strong. "We have been waiting for this trial for a long time — not only us, but the Iraqi people and Iranian people as well," said Omar Al-Murad, a 43-year-old architect. "We say this is the end of every oppressor." Many Palestinians also watched closely, but with the opposite view. Weal Naser, a 42-year-old Palestinian owner of a Gaza vegetable shop, said Palestinians can never forget Saddam's past support for their cause. At the start of the Palestinian uprising against Israel, Saddam paid the equivalent of $15,000 U.S. to families of Palestinian suicide bombers, later raising it to $25,000 U.S. "He supported the martyrs' families and he helped many students in Palestine or during their studies in Iraq," he said. Saddam is "paying now the price for being a hero, for saying "No" to America and to (President George W.) Bush," Naser said. "If the world wants justice, as they claim, they should bring Bush and (Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon to trial before Saddam." Palestinian taxi driver Saed Souror, 32, was more ambivalent about Saddam but equally critical of the trial. "I am not a Saddam supporter, but I am against this trial because it came upon American orders," Souror said. "If Saddam was a murderer, what can we call the American acts there?" Egypt's state-owned press chose to mostly ignore the trial, with a few carrying small stories inside but none putting it on the front page. Jordan's news media reported on Saddam's trial but provided no independent commentary or analysis, apparently to avoid stirring public anger already high because of opposition to the U.S. invasion. A columnist in respected pan-Arab newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat said the trial has lost much of its meaning because of the bloody insurgency that now attacks Iraqis daily. Some of the worst terror attacks are blamed on al-Qaida in Iraq, led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. "It should have been held when Iraqis' memory was full of images of humiliation and that of tens of thousands of the victims and handicapped of the wars," Lebanese columnist Samir Attallah wrote. Instead,``Al-Zarqawi has erased from the minds and hearts all the past horrors. Innocent Iraqis used to die in prison and in their homes, now the occupation resistance is killing the Iraqi innocents and their children in the streets." Inn Dubaii, the Gulff NNews paper said in an editorial that not just Saddam, but Iraq itself is on trial, to see whether its new government can rise to the occasion and give Saddam a fair hearing. "Anything less will be a permanent scar upon Iraq and its Is this really true? What do nomads think of this? Fi Amanillah

Salamz, Girl, you change your name like Hollywood star's change Spouses! Mubruuk!

Salamz, Ergo Female Circumcision is the cure to this particular social problem. Following this thought process, one can argue that FGM is a potential panacea for every social ill we are likely to encounter. And why not? If it is a cure for something like abortions which it has no links with, then why not other issues? Can this be called a 'STRAW MAN's ' argument?

Salamz, Im just curious, is there ANYYYY MADHAB that considers FEMALE CIRCUMSION TO BE HARAAAAM!!! I can't find anything that suggests so. Nur and Mutkalim and the rest of the nomads, what do the Madaheeb (shafi, malik, hanabili,hanafi, jafari etc.) say about this Masalah/Question? I'm curious and I will admit that I have little knowledge about the subject. Fi Amanillah

Salamz, WHAT DO THE 4 MADHABS THINK OF THIS? The following section is found in the standard Shafi'i manual of Islamic law which states in English translation: BOOK E: PURIFICATION e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (n: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert). (A: Hanbalis hold that circumcision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanafis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)" (Source: Reliance of the Traveller, A translation of the classical manual of Islamic Sacred Law (Shari'ah) `Umdat as-Salik by Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 769/1386), in Arabic with facing English text, commentary and appendices edited and translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller, Revised Edition 1994, p. 59; A: ... comment by Sheikh 'Abd al-Wakil Durubi; Ar. Arabic; n: ... remark by the translator; O: ... excerpt from the commentary of Sheikh 'Umar Barakat) Circumcision of the female consists of the removal of a part of the clitoris, which is situated above the opening of the urethra. The Sunnah is not to remove all of it, but only a part. (al-Mawsu‘ah al-Fiqhiyyah 19/28). In this matter, it is wise to follow the interests of the female: if the clitoris is large, then part of it should be removed, otherwise it should be left alone. This size of the clitoris will vary from woman to woman, and there may be differences between those from hot climates and those from cold climates. A hadith on the topic of female circumcision has been attributed to the Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Him), according to which he said: "Circumcision is a Sunnah for men, and an honour for women," but there is some debate as to the authenticity of this hadith. See Silsilah al-Ahadith al-Da‘ifah by al-Albani, no. 1935. How circumcision is to be performed is mentioned in the hadith narrated by Umm ‘Atiyah, may Allah be pleased with her, according to which a woman used to perform circumcisions in Madinah. The Prophet (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Him) told her: "Do not abuse (i.e. do not go to extremes in circumcising); that is better for the woman and more liked by her husband." (Reported by Abu Dawud in al-Sunan, Kitab al-Adab; he said this hadith is da‘if). Fi Amanillah

An example in which Islam gives "real" freedom whereas women in the West have "Dajjalic" freedom, please? In Islam, you attain 'freedom' through following the Sunnah and constricting your NAFS, Your Physchi. 'DAJJALIC FREEDOM' is when your told not to LIMIT your NAFS but rather feed it over and over again. Feed the ego, feed the self i.e. You can do what you want to do, there are no limits. Basically, SELF-GRATIFICATION is the AIM. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Callypso, GOD is not SENTIMENTAL contrary to what most people today would like GOD to be...a PERSONAL, SENTIMENTALIZED GOD. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that is exactly the future of God. THEN THAT is SHIRK and making GOD, your SLAVE. An INVERSTION and PREVERSRION of what ISLAM teacheS. islam says MAN IS A SLAVE OF GOD Modern Man says GOD IS A SLAVE OF MAN . As for the rest of your post, inshallah, I will reply to it when I have more time.

outside the scope of the basic tenants i find it difficult to see how you justify this. look at the muslim umma, and within that there is variance in interpertation. this does not refer to core beliefs, but customs and practices, a pakistani muslims values and norms are not ness. the same as a saudi's, a ugandan's, a canadians or a somali's. now if your interpertation is correct and possibly disagrees with any of these what you saying is 'they are all wrong'. now this is not an accident. it is a basic factor in islam which has helped it spread, because it is more easily accomodating to local value i.e. islam had travelled far more consideraly with trade than invasion. Values and Norms are Established by the ULAMA/Scholars of ISLAM from the time to of the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe waslim) to today, 1426 yrs later. Values and Norms are not rooted in CULTURE for the MUSLIM UMMAH. If something is incongruent with the Islamic Tradition i.g. Women leading salat, Dating, Pluralism, then it is to be REJECTED. Then is is a Biddah Sayyiha (BAD INNOVATION) and is to be REJECTED. In Islam, there is [uNITY in DIVERSITY] as long as their is an Agreement on the USUL ul DEEN, i.e. 5 PILLARS OF ISLAM, 6 PILLARS OF IMAN (MIN'm). However, there is NO UNIFORMITY in Methodolgy , but this does not validate making something that has been halal or haram in islam for 1400 yrs and making it otherwise. i.e. suggesting that men and women are equal, making jiehaaad haram, making homosexuality acceptable etc. Islam does not instinctively have a heirarchy Is the deaf = to the Blind? Is the sick person = to the Healthy person? Is the King = to the peasant? Well, in islam it can be asked Is the Alim, Scholar = to the avg. Muslim after all the rasul (salihe caliyhe waslim) said that the Ulama (MUSLIM SCHOLARS) are the Inheritors of the Prophets and Allah said that the 'ULAMA FEAR HIM (GOD) THE MOST'. Is the fasiq (corrupt muslim) = to the Believer who prays all night? Afterall, Allah speaks negatively of the fasiquun (plural for fasiq (corrupt muslim) in the quran and speaks highly of the Mumin, Believer. ] Does a Hierarchy exist now? so in this context how do you define your 'right' from their 'wrong' Through the Islamic Tradition via the Seerah, Life of the Rasul (salAllahu caliyhe waslim)via the interpretation of the Majority of Ulama (1400yrs of Ulama who utilized Quran, Sunna, Shariah ). If we don't judge by this, then everything becomes subject to 'TABOOISM', meaning it is RIGHT TODAY, but if people agree on it, it can be made to be WRONG - TOMORROW!!!

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Khayr: 1. -T.F. and Munir P. critique muslims, so does Bashir G. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Isnt that the point of a discourse? Partly! A co-relation exists btwn the two and a comparison can be made as to -Which is Worse? Originally posted by Khayr: 2. -T.F. and Munir P. are considered as a 'Progressive muslims' and from what I have read of Bashir G.'s writing, he can be considered as a 'Progressive muslim' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and what does that imply? It implies that there are similiarities btwn the two and asks the question what makes one a 'PROGRESSIVE MUSLIM'? Are there different levels of 'Progressive Muslims' i.e. one is a kafir, a murtad (apostate) and another is just a fasiq (corrupt muslim)! Originally posted by Khayr: 3. -Some folks consider T.F. to be an 'apostate', likewise some people consider Bashir G. to be an 'apostate'. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- why? SOME MUSLIMS CONSIDER THEM TO BE 'MOCKING' the DEEN and making what is HALAL to be HARAM and what is HARAM to be HALAL aka PREVERTING THE DEEN! Originally posted by Khayr: 4. But is one worse the other? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- define worse? By Worse, in this context, I mean to ask who is really the 'APOSTATE' and who can be considered a 'FASIQ' (corrupt muslim). Who is trying to do more Damage to the Islamic Tradition? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Khayr: 5. Is it right to call them 'Apostates'? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- because you disagree with them? Geel, The authors of the article are trying to make a case for themselves agains those who call them APOSTATES and are saying that it should be considered a 'HATE CRIME'. That is what the article covers. The authors are saying that they have been 'Vilified'!!! imams calling for death and destruction of kafirs AND fellow muslims .... 'f they persist, kick them out'. So the point is very serious. This is not a disagreement on whether an imaam should be able to grant a mariage licence, but a death sentence. For me at least, thats outside the scope of human juristiction. Human Jurisdiction??? What do you mean? :confused: