Male boss all the wayyyyy! They just don't critique you on every dot that you are to put on an "I" and you can actually....reason with them (disclaimer: personal opinion)

Salams, Originally posted by Cambarro: Since most societies have a hypocritical elements, it is even more so in Saudi. Waa contradiction socda. Segregating the genders to their level leads to many problems. Everything is swept under carpet. The elitist get away with many things whilst women are not well treated. With regards to article, i think they expose underlying problem. We all know homosexuality is quite prevalent in that region, but instead of dealing with it, it is not talked about . I used to work in a very nice high class hotel at Central London, and the numbers of rich Arabs who used to pay for escorts and high class hookers were not few. Those very rich royalties were the ones to set laws in their countries. I don't know where this post modern obsession of 'lets talk about and bring it out in the open' stems from....oh, yeah-pardon me, how could I forget-Toleration is what it is called. We are muslims and we are to look down upon ALL that is HARAM in the Deen and all that leads to that road. If we don't do that, then our judgements became based on-dare I say it again-SENTIMENT The actions of the actors are being side lined here and nomads are asking each other-How can we measure Morality? You have already created room in your hearts for these kinds of things aka a Toleration. Fi Amanillah

^^^ Zafir, Its because you live in a society wherein a women on women thing (provided they look feminine) is considered erotic. It alludes to the dominant 'GQ' fantasy of having a 3 some. :rolleyes:

^^^^ If it is an opportunity to come together and recount the Seerah/Life of the Rasul (sallahu caliyhe wasilm), send Salwat on the Nabi (sallahu caliyhe wasilm) and make salat together. Allah yahdeena wa yakrimuna!

Originally posted by Johnny B: Cambaro, As you've noticed ,my knowledge of Islam equals nothing and i've nothing against Islam in particular, hence, my appreciation of your(any knowledgeable person's) inputs. Yet, you go on to mock the Scholars of Islam and the whole idea of Islamic Scholarship on this thread. The lack of congruency in your statement and actions on SOL is unbelievable.

Not a bad topic, albeit a bit abstract.

Originally posted by NGONGE: However, it's also pleasing to know that this government is attempting (albeit half-heartedly) to get to the bottom of this problem and the reasons for it. As the two articles above repeatedly stress, these lady guides are not replacing Imams and will not be conducting prayers, and are unlikely to be issuing fatwas. Their job will be to educate, guide and explain the finer points of the faith. The argument that these ladies are some sort of moles planted by the government to spy on and smother the 'Islamists' is nothing but unsubstantiated paranoia. Two dozen women can not do that much! Besides, how will they do it even if they tried? Will they teach other women to discard their hijab? Not to pray? Not to follow the clear Islamic rituals? Surely the only 'moderate' Islamic view they'll try to spread would be that bombing your own people is WRONG! This looks like a token gesture by the Moroccan government. However, since it is bound to benefit many people and help them better understand their faith, one is obliged to welcome it and hope that many other similar moves are made not only by the Moroccans but all other Islamic governments. If it is just "unsubstantiated paranoia" then why the effort in trying to 'educate muslim women' by in the muslim world. Forget the men, get the muslim women educated so that they can reach the blissful state of 'Nirvana' on earth. Why the biaseness in the western worldview of islamic gender roles and efforts to combat them and promote them as 'Evils' and 'Sinful Practices' This is an effort by a ruthless dictator that is in place to serve the european hegomony and keept 'Muslims in Check' These muslimahs are being produced as 'Modern Muslimahs' which is the very anti-thesis of what a Muslimah should be i.e. God serving and not self serving or gender serving.

That is unless you think Hijab, by definition, should isolate and immobilise women (i.e., keep them housebound or 'Muhajabahs'), which I suspect you do. But then, that would have little to do with the loss of the symbolism of hijab and much more to do with your inherent misogynism, wouldn't it? If Hijab was just a damn scarf or all about a piece of cloth, then the Rasul (sallahu aaliyhe wasilm)'s effort to kick out the Banu Nadir (correcet me if I am wrong here as to the name of the tribe) from Medina for taking off the hijab of a muslimah; was really futile and not worth such a reaction. The Hijab glorifies a muslimah and sanctifies her. The Hijab perserves the muslimah's dignity. This inevitably is tied down to the islamic definitions of gender roles and this is precisely what is muddled and forgetton, when many people just end up viewing the Hijab as just a piece of cloth

^^^ Sometimes I wonder, do they do an IQ test for these people and on purpose pick the dumbest and most fox and cnn watching yankees to work in these positions. lol

This sounds like the complete bassttradization of the idea of procreation and the family unit. Subhanallah! Its just a purely selfish, self serving dream for some people, at which no cost will be spared. By the way, How is this biologically possible? Don't you need an erection to produce sperm?

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What does it mean to Judge someone? As a practicing and visible muslim, I am constantly being judged. Does the MASS have a right to judge and on what basis? Who gives them the right to judge? By what faculty do you judge? Its intelligence that discrens btwn what is right and wrong, good and bad etc. Intelligence that is inextricably tied to the Divine.

Originally posted by Northerner: Focus people focus The article, lets talk about the article,,,,,, Why is it more difficult to have as many kids as possible in the west as it is in the africa/ middle east? 2.4 children is a common rule in the UK but why? Reason: cost of daycare Its to damn expensive to pop more than 2 babies and keep them in daycare. After all, dual income family is a necessity in society.

Originally posted by Haneefah: quote: Nothing is wrong with that the same way nothing is wrong with A. Yusuf getting Ethiopians and Americans to bomb the hell out of other somalis. Sometimes I feel like iney labo fiilo iskakaa dabamareen markaad sidan u hadasho. Inaba caadi ma tihid. Perhaps, you should kindly present to us the idea of the muhajaba? I mean, if a school girl simply demanding her right to play with her hijab on becomes comparable to the actions of a brutal warlord ( :confused: ) , then surely you must be the expert. Salams, Look, the member (Violet) is asking me a question in a cynical manner, so I gave them what I felt was a proper response. No need to beat around the bush, just tell it straight. I can't argue about hijabis with someone that champions an outright munafiq leader who killed thousands of muslims-all because they waved the flag of ISLAM. Raxmah, You are spot on! It really makes fun of the symbolism of the Hijab when hijabis mimick action for action, that which a non-hijabi aspires to be-the MODERN CITIZEN.

^^^ Nothing is wrong with that the same way nothing is wrong with A. Yusuf getting Ethiopians and Americans to bomb the hell out of other somalis. :rolleyes:

That is even worse because the perception of the action depends on your social and cultural values and outlook, so is your judgment actually worth anything? especially to those that share the same base that you judge from. This is important because the value of a judgment is most typically social, since the social interpretation dictates what we attach to that judgment, i..e its severity. So then you have to wonder how does a society decide what to judge,how to interpret it and what value to place in the judgement.. The same base that you judge them from? Do you mean that we share the same set of values? An example of 'judging' is seeing an overweight person and calling them 'fat' or telling someone that they are a bad parent or bad employee or a bad muslim etc. What gives you the right to judge someone else in their believes and actions?

Originally posted by Zafir: Why don't you first tell us what your answer is to your question and why? This is a research poll saxib, so either participate and help the fam. out or stay silent. Thank you

Salams, Reading and hearing arguments about one hijabi not wanting to shake hands of another police chief, hijabis wanting to be play sports and run track in the olympics etc. More and more hijabis are demanding equal rights with non-hijabis. Is the idea of the Muhajibah lost? Is the Symbolism of the Hijab forgotten?

Salams, I have hear this phrase on radio shows, the net, among work peers etc. "You don't have a right to judge me" or "Who gave you the right to judge them?" So my question is: Do you have a right to judge people? If Yes, why? If No, why?

You are speaking gibberish or worse-swedish to me Get to the point Johnny Boy.

Is your concern about religion in politics really based on the fact that religions other than Islam are liable to change? So you'd be all for living under a Hindu theocracy if the Hindus promised that they'd never change how you would be forced to worship Krishna? And are you in full support of the Saudi interpretation of Shariah laws provided they never change? How do you think that a few centuries ago, the Amir in India ruled there? Surely, you don't think that the Hindus were all killed or forced into conversions? The argument and threat of persecution by other religious states is tired and worn out. This is what secularism argues and tries to entice people with. What secularity can't fathom is that GOD and MAN are interlinked and that MAN can't be MAN when GOD is taken out of the picture. Therefore, secularism puts a real cholk hold on all religions and the idea of God Consciousness/TAQWA , because it seeks to propagate the exact opposite-Self Worship i.e. that MAN is his own GOD which makes it Shirk. When you state that Revelation can't set proper laws for MAN, you are de facto proclaiming that GOD can't get it right but that MAN can get it right and set things straight through the idea of Progressive society.

Salams, With the exception of the organ playing and the face off with the sisters, the rest are jaaz and are beautiful poetry in praise of the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm). Neither sufis, or shias or salafis are a threat to Islam. So why don't all you 'saved sects' hold off on judgements and lower your shoulders to others i.e. make room for them. No one group has a monopoly on Truth and not a monopoly on Islam. The Ulama have had there differences of opinions on these subjects and their is no IJMA/BINDING consenuses on such issues as Hadras/Dhikr sessions, mawlids etc. These are side issues and really and are very trivial. Get this, while you are yelling Biddah this and Biddah that, IDF is bombing the hell out of poor muslims in Gaza, Arab Sultans are letting the Navy surround all of Arabia, at the doorsteps of the muslim world, half our families don't pray let alone know how to read quran and the list goes on.... Lack of Iman and Hikmah and its all our faults. SubhanAllah, ittaqi Allah! :rolleyes:

Salams, I realise that i am not making much of an argument here. I just like to pick your brains. For many years the argument to separate church and state has been hotly debated. In the recent years, I’ve come across more and more examples of religion inter-mingled heavily with some of the world's current political situations. On the other hand, if America or the UK were not secular, Would we be able to practice our faith freely? It is bit of a conundrum for me. I think i wanna have my cake and eat it too. In Islamic countries, I am all for incorporating religion into politics. I would welcome it as i dont believe that Islam will be easily changed as other faiths. Where i worry is when our leaders in the muslim countries devaite from the scriptures and oppress the dhimis if Islamic state is ever to be established. However in non-Islamic countries, incorporating religion with politics would be detrimental for muslims or any other faithfull where their faith isnt the dominant one as other faiths are prone to change. The statement that 'we should thank secularism, for allowing us to practice Religion only in our homes and mosques as a RITUALISTIC RELIGION and not as a WAY OF LIFE' is insulting. This is what secularism preaches-take world religions out and you will have Utopia on Earth. Why if it wasn't for Roussou and the French Revolution, we would have never attained this 'Utopia' on earth, wherein religion has become a Ritual and not a Way of Life. Its like telling an Doctor that he can only practice medicine at home but that outside, he can only drive a Taxi and never practice medicine in public i.e. serve the public. Sis, what you are preaching is secularism. If religion is about living peacefully and affluently and attaining heaven on earth, then secularism is that religion that makes that promise, provided all other religions are practiced in a RITUALISTIC manner. Fi Amanillah

Ah... the absurdity of the agnostic argument. I was just stating the same argument that the avg. person makes today, when they choose to reject religions altogether. In a way, it is a question of what you want to Believe more importantly it is about You! Simple Universal questions: Why am I? Where am I? How am I? What am I? Who am I? When am I? And Yes, it does come back to the idea of Relativism because the avg. person's answers to these questions would reflect that.

Originally posted by Taliban: quote:Originally posted by Khayr: Islam is not Allah, therefor, it can't be Perfect. The Qur'an is the central religious text of Islam. The Qur'an is Allah's infallible and perfect Words. Therefore, Islam is a perfect religion. "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion." - [Quran 05:03] Salamun caliykum, الاناةُ منَ اللهِ و العجلةُ منَ الشيطانِِِ Calmness is from Allah and haste is from Satan (Tirmidhi). According to the Mufasirun like Imam Baydawi, Qurtabi and Qushari, the workd Kamal in the ayat is in reference to the completion of the Risalah/Message of the Rasul (sallahu caliyhe wasilm) and infact when the Hadrat Omar heard this he started weeping out of sorrow because he knew that the Rasul (sallahu caliyhe wasilm's) time with the Sahaba would soon come to an end. His reaction wasn't that Islam is Perfect or that because they are Muslim, that salvation is guaranteed for them. Certainely, Hadrat Umar was not of that frame of mind. So the question really is- Do we misinterpret the Deen and Sentimentalize it? Why is it necessary for some to claim that Islam is Perfect or whatever their religion or madhab might be? Allah is Perfection all else not being Him, is not Perfect. The very fact that Islam can be defined is a testament to its limitation because at the end of the day, it is not Allah but a WAY to Allah. The Quran are the Words of Allah but it does not encompass ALLAH and ALL knowledge of ALLAH. It contains a particular message that is enough for Mankind until the Qiymah. A message that if followed, we can attain Salvation. It is of value to make these defintions and distinctions because we don't live in isolation anymore and are faced with many different religions and much confusion in the form of 'intellectual secular thought' which seeks to state that because other religions exist, that we can't really choose one over the other. Of which a response can be made that because there are different cars out there, should we ignore them because people get into accidents using them and just take the subways or better yet-cycle around!