Salams, Sis, why don't you post us the coles notes version of the talk and give it to us in point form, according to your understanding. Tariq Ramadan is French Intellectual first and everything else second (including Muslim)

Salams, For being African blooded, these dudes show no sense of rhythm or harmony and the one dude in the middle needs to be replaced. Laakin, Its nice to know that not ALL religious somalis are head noddingsalafis.

Originally posted by Johnny B: quote:Originally posted by Northerner: If I intentionally want to miss a prayer today I know I would commit a sin and blame myself but also know it was written for me to commit that sin (preordained). This,to say the least, is confusing. How can an event that is already preordained by God be under your sphere of influence (free-will) ? , God can either preordain events in a specefic way and you'll have no influence (free will of your own), or let your free will and intentions influence an event,and thus be accountable for your actions. God is Omniscient and He knows future events or rather events that appear thus to beings limited by time; if God did not know these events He would not be Omniscient. The individual will is RELATIVELY FREE i.e. RELATIVE LIBERTY. If it were not in any degree free it would be deprived of all reality and compared to Absolute Liberty (which GOD alone Possesses not MAN) What the Modern Agnostic/Atheistic mentality prostylizes/propagates is Absolute Liberty. Absolute Liberty would entail that you be ABSOLUTE i.e. Infinite, Omnipresent, Omniscient etc. All these qualities can not but belong to ONE ABSOLUTE BEING because ABSOLUTNESS demands ONENESS. You can't have two CEO's in a company, you can't have two Chairmans in a company. The WILL is real in man in the measure in which MAN particapates in Divine Liberty from which individual liberty dervies all its reality as a result of the relationship btwn GOD and MAN. A metaphor can be made to illustrate this by comparing liberty to liquid that settles into a Vase, Jug etc., the latter representing Predestination. The movement of the liquid is equivalent to the free excercise of our will. If we can not will anything other than what is predestined for us, this does not prevent our will in relatively real participation. As for blaming yourself because you intentionally missed a Prayer, you may want to present yourself as humble and meak infront of the almighty , but the child voice in you that says, "it was preordained, so i'd no choice" is load and clear. Therefore, if you miss a prayer the very fact that you could 'RELATIVELY CHOOSE and PARTICPATE IN YOUR CHOICE'[ to miss that prayer and then reflect on it, shows that you had a 'CHOICE' but CHOSE another path for which you will be held RESPONSIBLE FOR. Try your argument in a court of law regarding a speeding ticket or worse-murder and see what the outcome is and how absurd you sound.

Originally posted by raadamiir: ******************************* If this ain't clannish writing then I don't know what is-SubhanAllah! :eek: [ March 30, 2007, 01:37 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

I am conducting research towards 'A Psychological Profile Of A Traitor' for the records of nation - so please, for the sake of your masters, be forthcoming. How do you feel? Definitely worth quoting

Originally posted by Alle-ubaahne: Masha-Allah that is a heroic act in defense of Islam and our land from the enemy that is occupying us. Ilaahow Mujaahidkaas janadda ka waraabi, oo ilaahow naga dhig kuwii uu u shafeeco qaado, aaaaaamiiiiiiiiiiiiiin. Ilaahayoow noogu naxariiso diintaada iyo jaceelka aan u qabno, oo ilaahow imtixaanka nolosha noogu kaalmee inaan ku baasno! Ilaahow jabi cadowgeena, oo guusha na sii, oo Ilaahow adaa boqor ahee halmar na tus jabka dabo-dhilifyada iyo gaaladeey wataan, yaa Rabi, anta arxamu-raaximiin!

its a win win situation? For GOD its a win-win situation For the Patient Believer, its a win-win situation because GOD is JUST and by his own Divine Nature can not commit an INJUSTICE. "Prayer/Dua is the essence of Worship " Why? B/c there is the communicatoin btwn MAN and GOD. That Dialogue, that recognition that MAN is ever in need of GOD. JB, all your talk on here is nothing but devilish mental gymanstics aka MOREAL RELATIVISM. i.e. won't someone's feelings get heart if they prayed to GOD for something. Won't that 'something' be denied to one person and given to another. :rolleyes: Prayer fashions Man aka that constant communication btwn MAN AND GOD

What a walking contradiction-I want to wear Niqaab and support Democracy via the Holy Vote??? :rolleyes: This is wherein the Symbolism of the Hijab/Niqaab is lost.... There is no debate about this...No Vote! Wear the Niqaab and stay out of the Ballot box. Its like seeing a Hijabi/Niqaabi purchasing a lottery ticket or smoking in a restaurant. Caajib!

Originally posted by Pi: quote:Originally posted by Taliban: quote: Originally posted by Sergeant Sakhar: First who was on it and second what caused the crash? Most likely occupiers were on it, and a missile fired by insurgents probably caused the crash. Most likely occupiers were on it, and an Angel came down and hit it with it's wings. Or maybe Israa'fil just yelled at it, and the sound waves crushed the plan. Divine hand in the works. Whatever keeps your misplaced faith intact. LOOL By any chance, are you related to Socod Badne? Or are you two SOL characters the same person in real life? :eek: Maybe we need to have the SOL CSI crew look into it. PI or shall I say "SB", how do you write so brilliantly? :rolleyes:

At any rate, lets distort reality a little and pretend that this evidence is indeed something worth believing. In that case, and by simple logic one can also argue that Somalia is trying to occupy Ethiopia. There are hundreds of thousands of Somalis living in Ethiopia! Or better still, you and your ilk are attempting to occupy the West (there are thousands of you living wherever you live). Simple migration is no evidence of anything. The Big Difference is the Ethios came in with their tanks and artillery not with WHITE FLAGS. So if only after a few months of the Ethio-American and Munafiqoon invasion, Ethio citizens move into parts of Somali or any rumour of that nature-it will be considered a continuation of their INVASION-Point Loaded! So you have no logical or rational argument to stand on. There is no similiarity btwn somali refugees that fled to Ethiopia in the past WITHOUT ANY TANKS OR WEAPONS and the Ethio INVADERS (with their tanks9). Likewise, with your broken record of 'some of us are immigrants in the west' is not plausable because we didn't come in with weapons or threats unlike the ethios and the yankees. CG, How much qaad do you chew, per day of the week? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by NGONGE: If this were true then it should be a reason for celebration. Finally the land will have occupiers that may accord it the respect it deserves. Everyday, I grow more and more convinced that most Somalis are illiterate, stubborn, blinkered savages. Ask again, son: are you proud to be Somali? Tom, what are you on? :rolleyes: Please bring faraax back. :cool:

Thus making your inherent thinking ‘guide’ you in life rather than be guided. JB, If thats not ego centered than I don't know what is. Your thinking is aimed at ridiculing something you don’t believe in! ENJOY

Working At Supermarket Check Out Answered by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani I am working in Morrison's and I'm on the check outs, I wanted to know that because I am dealing with haram things such as beef, pork, ham is it haram for me to touch them things? Also is there anything I can do for e.g. I already do wudu every time I come and go from work and I always make fresh wudu when reading namaz in break times during my shifts at work. so cold you tell me what Islam says about this? Walaikum assalam, 1. It would be permitted to work on the check out of a supermarket that sells things Muslims consider impermissible (such as pork, alcohol, wine, or food items with haram ingredients). One’s earnings will be lawful (halal). This is the position of Imam Abu Hanifa (Allah have mercy on him). One should, however, dislike such items in one’s heart: loving that which Allah loves and hating that which Allah hates is from true faith. (For the reasoning, see first appended answer, below.) This ruling refers to doing so in a non-Muslim country or in non-Muslim areas in a Muslim country. 2. It is not permitted to sell such items in one’s own supermarket. If one does, it is sinful. The revenue generated from such sales is unlawful. It would be obligatory to: (a) repent from one’s error itself (through remorse, seeking forgiveness, and determining not to repeat the sin), and (b) giving away the unlawfully earned money to the poor. (See second answer below.) 3. It is not haram to touch unlawful items, especially when there is a need. Normally, meats are wrapped, and the alcohol in bottles. As such, there will be no transfer of filth (najasa) onto one’s hands or body. Given this, there is no need to renew your ablutions (wudu) before praying. It may be best, though, to wash your hands, when it is reasonably easy to do so. And Allah alone gives success. Walaikum assalam, Faraz Rabbani. Source Again this is the Hanifi response and I don't know of what the others like Imam Malik, Shafi and Ahmed ibn Hanabil's rulings are on this point.

^^^ They are just words that are done for the sake of formality. The brits are not sorry about any of their crimes against humanity-Why? b/c they continue to do the same. Just look at Afghanistan and Iraq !

^^^ Intelligent Design v. Darwin's Theory (Evolution) thread on SOL

^^^ Roobleh from Doha, my Junior nomad, we have discussed this topic in the Camel Milk debate section. Just use the Search function on SOL to look at it. It was a lengthy thread.

When you go to Hajj you all dress the same - a large element of Hajj is unity and equality. How can this be when on leaving the mosque one muslim pops over the road and buys tiffany jewellery while the other starts the long walk back to the 2 star hotel in the sandals he's had for 5 years. The focus is beings shifted from the Sacred House-Kaaba to the mundane and profane i.e. shopping centers, designer stores etc. 2 Hadiths come to mind regarding this. The one hadith about the dajjal not being able to enter Mecca but that he will call upon the people and they will run out of Mecca to the Dajjal. This globalization is producing such 'sell outs' of the deen. The other hadith is about the destruction of the Kaaba. That will be when the Sacredness and Symbolism of the Kaaba is largely forgetton and ignored and all else around it is worshipped i.e. globalization in the forms of extravagent malls and 5 star hotels. The people will be too busy and in such a state of affluence that they won't deem the Kaaba to be anything more than a Square House. Waa nacuudhi billah miin dhalika!

The debate was sponsored by a Muslim organisation, produced by Muslims and, other than the chairman, everyone taking part was a Muslim. None in the audience was insulted by it and, clearly, none of the participants were either. The Qatar Foundation This is the foundation that is lead by the "Shiekha Mozah" the Emir of Qatar's wife. She is in support of Globalization interms of Cultures and geography. Here is the Aim of the Doha Debate on their site: The aim is to test the logic of an argument, examine complex subjects from a variety of angles and reach a vote among the audience that tests the effectiveness of what they have heard. [ It is hoped that the audience might be liberated from well-worn ideological clichés and inspired to fresh insights. Source Liberated from what cliches? hmmm, I wonder what they mean by that Sir Ngonge.... Khayer, this is basic stuff. There is no great conspiracy here. In fact, this could have been a topic you started yourself. Ah! You actually started something similar not long ago. So, are you hypocrite, a fool or just a hot head that is always ready to take offence when there is non to be seen? I dare say you’re the latter. Calm down, duqa. I'm for Preservation of the Muslim Identity and by and large muslim community (visible and not an invisible, name tag wearing community). A proper response to such debates is no debate at all. The Niqaab is there and we don't judge our values by the mark of Integration into liberal society. Case Closed! The debate was about things taking place in the West. Two of the participants did not speak Arabic. Nor do most Muslims living in the West. Not even you, brother. Whether they spoke in swedish or swahili wouldn't matter. The fact is that it is a muslim and by in large an arab speaking country. Its like coming to your home and someone starting an agrument with you...oops, I meant a Debate and telling you that you are only to respond to them in Chinese. Waar Baax! There are many fluent arabic speaking panelists that they could have had but they didn't have them deliberately.

Originally posted by Taako Man: I saw the debates and that lord Hebel hindi dude is awfully good at manipulation of the Quran. The lady editor from the magazine is telling a person who voluntarily wears a niqaab, not to wear a niqaab and she is not wearing a hijab. Is there something wrong with this picture? There is everything wrong with that picture but some nomads would disagree and say its a DEBATE mate, so take it easy. I disagree ofcourse cbeause the debate is about my religiously centered value system aka the Deen and thus what is most cherished to me and other muslims is being Debated and defaced. It isn't about Debating and Free Speech when our value system is being attacked and some munafiqun are arguing against the Shariah stating that their 'Personal Freedoms' usurp the Shariah. Today the niqaab, tomorrow-why do you have to pray 5 times a day? Its a political thing because this is being used to promote a certain WORLDVIEW. The view that ISLAM is medievil and is impeding on the notion of 'progressive society'

Originally posted by Naden: Very fair and about time. Promotions and advancement affect a woman's lifetime earnings and how much she saves for her retirement. She should not be penalized for having and caring for an infant. ^^^ Why should the infant be penalized by a career driven mother? Poor daycare raised infants Carry on....

Salams, Hayam, The point is that its a personal choice really..like deciding to wear bright red shoes with a green hijab... But then to turn around and frown upon others who dont like that style and claim that it is a prescribed in Islam for women to wear the Niqab, which by logic would entail that all women should then wear it or they aren't really being proper muslimahs....now thats just pushing it. If I am not mistaken Imam's Abu Hanifa and Ahmed ibn Hanabil consider it the Niqaab to be Fard and they are 2 of the 4 leading Sunni Imams of Fiqh. So for those following those madaheebs/schools of fiqh in particular, than it is really not just a question of Personal Choice but an issue of Taqwa and obedience to the shariah (according to those 2 madaheeb). By stating that it is a matter of personal choice, you are belittling the the symbolism of Niqaab into just another ordinary personal choice among the many personal choices that we make in our daily lives like wearing red shoes with green hijab (your example). SubhanAllah! So what do you suggest, that we lay about behaving in a selfish manner and worrying about our own fate in the day of judgement? Thats funny, maybe you forgot that a particular revelation called the Quran was revealed to Muhammed ibn Abdallah-a prophet (aaliyhe asalaam) and that the message was about worrying about our fate in the day of judgement. Yes, it is selfish to worry about your akhira and yes, we should worry about our own fate in the day of judgement. How would anything come about in this world if all we thought was the qiyamah, how depressing. When Hadrat Umar was the Khalif, he would go around at night trying to feed the hungry, trying to remove obstacles from the road so that a donkey wouldn't fall and complain about him in the qiyamah!!! SubhanAllah. He was obsessed about the qiyamah but yet married, had children, engaged in business, ruled the ummah etc. So he is an example of how things can be done with qiyamah on our minds. Its a very optimistic way of thinking because it prepares you for your journey back to the 'Beloved-Allah'. Ngonge, The motion asks if the face veil is a barrier to Muslim INTEGRATION in the West! It does not ask people to ban it, curtail it or ditch it. It's a simple question about integration. You either agree that the veil hinders integration or you don't. Those that voted for the motion agreed and those that voted against the motion, disagreed. Everyone that was part of that audience or watched the debate on TV (or on the net) knew (hopefully) that this VOTE that seems to irk you that much has no particular bearing on the veil or real life. The fact that a muslim audience is being asked what is of more value to them-Integration into western society or their Deen is damn outright insulting. Imagine this, Al jazeera arabiya had a panel discussion in england and invited only non-muslim anglos and told them to speak nothing but Arabic in the discussion and the topic of discussion was Are most White British women loose Damn outright insulting, ain't it! (to a white british to get him to respond in arabic in his homeland of England). Well the same shiiidh was and is being pulled of in Doha, Qatar in the name of 'Free speech for Arabs' . Its a debate meant to suggest that the arab-largely muslim way of life is a hinderance to PROGRESSIVE THINKING. Like the Maghrabi chick said to the niqaabi sisters "You are making it diffuclt for me to assimilate by wearing the Niqaab" :rolleyes: ,

^^^^ MashaAllah, what a great offer. You folks at the UAE are a great opportunity through this offering from the islamic bank. Aabaxey baa saanad walbaa umrah taaga and now I know why it easy for him to do.

Originally posted by Hayam: By focusing on these matters and making them central to the Muslims Identity in the west we belittle ourselves, Shouldnt our concern be to progress the position of Muslims in the West as productive members of society? You sound like that Magribi panelist, non-hijab wearing, Islam is in my heart (not outside)journalist. Its not an issue of Niqaab really but an issue of Muslim Identity. What is being asked is-IF a part of your Religion "bothers us" then chuck it away and become like us "Progressive thinking". What does being a "productive member of society" mean? Muslims aren't capitalist machines but slaves of Allah, first and foremost. So who are we to answer to at the end of the day, when our own qiyamahs can come any second for each and everyone of us. and what is this notion of Progressive? Hello...we are headed towards the Qiyamah. Why else is Islam stamped as the 'last revelation'. Verily, by time, man is in a state of loss... not in a state of Progress. Northerner, How the hell can a Muslim "VOTE OUT" something that is in the deen? The question of the debate was really about is NIQAAB a part of the Deen. No debate about that and certainely no voting on that. This is very dangerous because now all kinds of other islamic principles and symbols will come under the "VOTE".

Originally posted by nuune: Kheyr doodiisa dhan maxaa ka wada dhigey waxey dumarka xirtaan iyo madhabaha(math-habaha) kala duwan, laga yaabo labadan mawduuc iney yihiin kuwa kaliya ee dhaliya shucuurta kala duwan iyo doodaha xasaasiga ah kuwaas oo intooda badan aan laheen ula jeedo kaamil ah iyo meel loo raaco toona, ugu danbeentiina wareeriya dadka intooda badan ee ku cussub mawduucyadaas ama diinta aan wax saas ah ka aqoonin. Kheyr, bro, maadaama aad aragtidaada iyo fakkirkaaga ka baxsatey barnaamijkaas ka baxey talafishinkaas, waxaan ku weydiin rabaa, haddaad jeceshahay in aad dadka wacyi galiso ood wax u sheegto maad si qumaati ah oo toosan wax ugu sheegtid ood topigyo noo furtid oo aan kaa faaiideesano waxaad taqaano, taas waa fikradeyda, waana ka baxey! Its not about 'Niqaab/Hijaab' per say, but the medium that was used and the particular message i.e. YOU CAN VOTE ON YOUR DEEN The Devil lays in the DETAILS saxib. This show is nothing but pure VENOM, amid at making middle eastern muslims-western value centered pupils. Why else is trying to get muslims to 'vote' such a hotbed issue? Its really not about NIQAAB but as the confused muslim sister on the panel said "It is about PERSONAL CHOICE" :rolleyes: Like heck its a Personal Choice, if that was and is the case, then there is not need for FIQH in islam. Personal Choice would be the rule of law in islam. Fi Amanillah

Salams, THE LATEST DEBATE The face veil is a barrier to Muslim integration in the West The latest Doha Debate on February 19 joined in the bitter European debate about Muslims who wear the niqab or face veil, branding it "a barrier to integration" in the West. In a surprise vote, fifty-seven per cent of the audience, said the niqab hindered integration in the West, appearing to support comments from western leaders such as Britain's Tony Blair, who has termed the veil "a mark of separation." British Muslim Peer, Lord Ahmed of Rotherham, and Reem Maghribi, founder of Sharq magazine, argued that they didn't want the face veil to become a symbol of Muslims and Islam. "People can wear whatever they like.....(but) my worry is that a person wearing the niqab will become a symbol of Islam and will exclude me and many others from representing my point of view," said Lord Ahmed. UK school teacher Ayshah Ismail, who wears the niqab, told the 300-strong audience that she is fully integrated into British society. She blamed ignorance for the lack of acceptance the West has towards the veil. Her co-speaker against the motion: 'This House believes the face veil is a barrier to integration in the West', was Ahmed Younis, the former National Director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council in the US. Source Dubbed as Qatar's form of Free Speechin the Arab World I wonder what Think Tank brough about this idea :rolleyes: SubhanaAllah, Walahi the xawa of people is being feed through such mediums. This was my first time being exposed to this and what a Shaytan it truely is. They were debating on the issue of Niqaab and whether a Muslimah should wear it and that it prevents them from becoming 'Assimilated'. As I watched the debate all I could remember was the ayat of the Quran stating that "they" will not accept you until you become one of them. Could you believe that people who were claiming to be Muslims (fattt bbaasstard Lord Ahmed of Rotherham, and Reem Maghribi (who was fighting hard for Muslims not to be MUSLIM)) were sitting comfortably and doing the dirty deed of the gaalo. Walahi, waa caajib! Lord Ahmed kinda reminded me of Ngonge I was waiting for him to yell out 'You lack Comprehension you niqaabis'. Ahmed Younis was a bit of a slick talker but you can't be advocated for Niqaab when you look whiter than the next ale drinking brit. Laakin, he is a pretty good debater. The one niqabit sister in the panel was drilled and she didn't answer q's the right way. 'Niqaab is my personal choice' wrong answer. Its a mandate of the deen (according to some schools of fiqh) and no one can say that it is not Halal or part of the deen or can crap about it. (That is what she should have said). One niqaabi sister in the audience tore a whole in fattt *******d Lord Ahmed of Rotherham, and Reem Maghribi. MashAllah, she was to the point-Islam is Islam, it doesn't have to be tailored to anyone to appease anyone. Point Blank! Ahmed Younis made a good point about how much do you want muslims to assimiliate-do you want them to cut down their salat, through their hijab off-is their a cut off line? At the end of it all, the Victory was to the Army of the Shaytan. The one thing that the show wants to achieve was accomplished-The VOTE. The largerly muslim audience made a POPULAR VOTE on an issue on the DEEN. :rolleyes: No Niqaab-57% Yes Niqaab-43% Whats next tomorrow-a Vote on which Part of the Quran to EDIT OUT??? Allah yahdeena