^u r free to...got it How did Ngonge get into the picture, anywayz. What's up with u Amy n...

Is that how you've perceived my contribution moderator?

C’mon dude just say it out loud u didn’t get the gist of the phrase ...or did u! The key words are: middle of the road, yellow lines, and dead armadillos. Hint: two line undivided highway. The only thing that divides the highway is yellow line. C'mon yo from there it should be simple to get the idea . Yeah granted the cowboys are associated with vigilante like mentality and shooting from the hip at the slightest provocation, and what not. But that is the cowboys and the phrase is a phrase coined by Americans...the folks have some wisdom in their sayings. Afro don’t buy into the democracy thing! The irony of the phrase of the government for the people, by the people, of the people is coined by none other than the towering figure that Americans thank to for preserving the unity of their country . He went war with the South and in that war about million people had perished . Why? If the democracy is something that trumps the interest of the nation how come this man couldn’t come to term with the wishes of the confederate south? So much of democracy!!! There instances where what majority wishes is set aside if it goes against the moral principles in which the nation is founded. The tyranny of the majority as was the case on the slavery...well u got where I'm goin with this. Don’t u let Oday Baashi down plz...Gimme straight interpretation of the phrase and just forget who coined and what not...

What I and others who are neither pro seccesionist nor against are concerned with is this warlord phenomenon which alot ppl have settled for as being the stable Somali political system that many have just accepted. After all, you are not a pro secessionist per se huh! Well what can I say Northerner...we are on the same page then. Btw, warlords, other personalities, and their sidekicks will only last few years and Insha’Allah the day will come when visionaries and men (and women to be politically correct) with integrity take the lead and settle all the political disputes in good faith. I know the unity rhetoric sound good and dandy on the net and I perfectly understand if someone says easy said than done but as a principle one must be careful to oppose it just because Baashi from Somaliweyn camp is for it. Afro net, Have you ever heard the cowboy saying that the only thing on the middle of the road is yellow lines and dead armadillos! I let you figure that out and plz let me know how you interpret that hawkish line. You gotta be careful to mistake freedom of expression, the rights of individuals and what not with that of the states. For states operate in different level sxb. Collective sacrifice for the common good is the name of the game in this level. There are things in which states rely on for their strength and viability. Unity, population (market for goods), and landmass (resources), among others are the things that make states a viable entity in the long run. States go to war of either defending what they regard as their essential interests or securing access to resources that is not available to them and which they cannot survive without it. It would be nice if the world were full of peace loving countries. The regional politics and the volatility of the Horn alone should make you think twice before endorsing any move that dismembers this poor and conflict-ridden country. With respect to celebrations and what not, that’s trivial in the scheme of things really! What is important is if this celebration is a move that encourages the forging of new identity that hyphenates the ethnic Somalis with English word: Lander. That's not in line with the cool head’s vision of where the country should be going to. The reason being, for one it crystallizes the political divide into cultural one. Secondly, this is akin to taking tribalism into art form where symbols and designations replace what is essentially a clan motivated separation movement goal. What make secession a clan-motivated objective are the history and the root cause of the very question of separation. The case for it has been anchored into three rocks and each one of them is animated by clannish undercurrents. I’ve read many competent authors who have been trying to articulate why it is good idea for parts of Somaliland (the ones that are passionate about the idea) to secede from the rest of the country. The only thing that I so far could agree with their argument is the absence of legitimate representative Somali government that can address the root causes of Somali conflict. What I argue is if what the secessionist North promises to its subjects can be made available in the proposed federal arrangements where the self-declared provinces maintain autonomy on all the domestic dealings then there is no room for the hardliners to maneuver and manipulate the masses buying into the idea that once secession is attained the evil greed and power-hungry men will not come into the reign. This assumes that negative tribalism is not the main driving force of secessionism. If what the people really want is justice, peace, and progress and that's made available inside the big tent that would settle the whole thing, wouldn't? Once this point is agreed and confirmed then the ball is in Mogadishu’s court for Puntland is the one that designed this arrangement to abolish the center-periphery political arrangement that gave the awesome power last government recklessly put into use to preserve the reign of the one man rule that got us where we are at now.

No doubt that after you have been uprooted from your native country by nasty people with guns, it has been challenging living in the Diaspora face-to-face with stone-faced immigration honchos, beefy security men and bullying landlords. But thanks to our Somali ingenuity and tenacity we are still standing and it is time to begin to look ahead to all the good things the old country has in store for us in the near future. You may have faltered, you may have stumbled or you may even have considered yourself an outright failure, but dear future leaders of Somalia I want you to rise and prepare yourself for tomorrow. There is nothing you can do about what had happened to our country during the last ten years. Yes, the past may be a story written in blood but the future can be written in gold. Do not be discouraged about the sad stories emanating daily from Somalia. For almost every great country on earth had gone through similar turmoil, or even worse. Here are few examples, the American and Spanish civil wars, not to mention the devastation of the Two World Wars and the Bolshevik Revolution that claimed the lives of millions of people. Again, it was the youth and the womenfolk who rebuilt their countries from scratch under extreme difficult circumstances. Right on!

Discreet, You would agree, I’m sure, that in order to solve a problem one has to know the nature and the extent of the problem. Once the problem is defined, it would be easy to plan an elaborate scheme to solve it. In my profession, we often use industry jargons to characterize different diagnosis. Debugging, elimination technique, and root-cause analysis are the most popular ones. Only the later is the in-depth investigative work that identifies the problem completely. The first phase of undertaking what bro Jamal has in mind is identification process. Finding remedy is the second phase and so on… Now, why would I bring something akin to textbook narrative or work procedures to the discussion! Bear with me bro Discreet, I’m onto something here. You asked, “ but why even further entertain this parochial mentality which we all know is fundamentally defective. (14+ years of anarchy should be enough to justify my inference). What are we talking about here? No one in his right mind wants to entertain such mentality! You also asked if “tribalism†is worth a grain of salt! The answer is obvious! No I sense confusion in your part sxb. Let’s first employ the above analogy. We got a problem. Naturally, we would want to know if this is an isolated problem or if it is “system-wide†problem. If the problem is one that affects the whole system, then assessment phase kicks in. Is the system salvageable? If yes then the question becomes whether all features and capabilities of the system can be restored instantly or gradual recovery is the only remedy. If not then one accepts the outcome of the root-cause analysis and moves on... This method is through, meticulous, and objective. One is not merely “entertainingâ€, endorsing, or propagating the problem but rather trying to figure it out its nature and its extent in order to get rid of it. When I say acknowledge “itâ€, I mean just that: acknowledge the reality on the ground, the fact that tribalism is a reality and a societal problem that needs to be confronted. Now the question is not whether the problem is worth a grain of salt to paraphrase your concern here rather is how best could one face up this enormous challenge. To find a solution one has to know the problem first. Once one finds the problem one has no choice but to acknowledge it as a problem in need of fixing! The only alternative to that is a denial! With that background, let me move onto the crux of the matter. It’s my belief and has been sometimes now that negative tribalism is our main problem and other political problems are secondary to this one. It wreaks havoc through the whole system from governmental institutions to the very foundation of the state (think of where one’s loyalty lies clan or the state). Its tentacles are deep and its hold over the political discourses is far-reaching. Any corrective action (even though I think is a huge challenge) will take a long time and it won’t be possible to eradicate at one go. The recovery will more likely be gradual one. Having said that, one should be careful in confusing tribe with “tribalism†as the first is the building bloc into which Somali nation is organized; the other is crook’s trade: nepotism, favoritism, entitlements based on blood rather than merit, etc. We have this discussion before and I’d realized that many nomads disagree with me on this. In any event, it is in this context that I said “acknowledge it and minimized to its bones stripping from all its meat and fatâ€. As you might have correctly guessed “bones†I meant the identity part which is being from particular clan. I say this not because I want to preserve the identity part but because I think it is impractical and honestly futile exercise to try to erase one’s identity. Finally let me come back to the characterization point. I don’t recall now but I’ve once read somewhere that the Chinese have this proverb: the beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right name. In other words it is just another way of saying what the popular cliché iplies: call spade a spade! Again one more time these labels are not the right labels sxbyaal. PS> I like the signature...it's deep sxb.

Yasmine, Secessionism is clearly defined and strongly advocated political objective. There are Somalis who do support secessionism. On the other end of the spectrum, other Somalis strongly disagree with this political goal. Each side has their reasons. Now, the pronouns (they, we, them, us) are just that: pronouns. Secessionists, the adherents of secessionism, are clearly distinct political stripe in contemporary Somali politics and “they†simply refers to that group; whereas “we†is the bigger tent that accommodate majority of Somalis that don’t see the need to dismember the country into British and Italian colonial past. Now I didn’t create the political differences that exist among Somalis in general and secessionist-Somaliweyn camp in particular. Hence, the idea of me practicing exclusion is a figment of your imagination. I merely posted my observation on the subject at hand. Perhaps you disagree with what I have been saying on this forum. Perhaps you sympathize with secessionist political outlook. In any case, in nowhere have I ever advocated the politics of exclusion! If anything, defining real political issues and identifying who sympathizes what political strand and why is what political analysis is all about. That is not divisive. But again if you sincerely think articulating Somaliweyn position as a divisive thing to do or misrepresentation then I say that is an opinion and I have seen many interesting opinions in this forum Northerner, Quite to the contrary, there are plenty of ideas out there. If you are interested in hearing one, please start a new thread and ask the question and I will share my taano with you. I suspect the roadmap will have to articulate a practical outline that ensures a transparent, just, and inclusive government where the system (Islamic preferably) with its checks and balances is the way to go as opposed to the institutionalized tribal order where the inclusion of personalities of particular clan is the guarantor of the stability of the system. This kind of discussion is impossible if one side is insisting with secession of an area that they don’t even have a complete control let alone loyal following. I like the engineering analogy. It is a good one sxb. To answer the question absolutely and positively NO; constructability issue must be resolved before any construction work commences. Conditions adverse to safety must be eliminated and as you might know there is an elaborate processes followed to ensure public safety. The interesting thing in this analogy is that the structural impediments are assessed by cognizant and responsible Engineer (PE) - there are no preconceived judgments made by anyone on the feasibility of the project. All the interested parties contractor, customer, and government regulators have one thing in mind: public safety. In the event that the engineer’s feasibility study finds problem, there are engineering solutions that can be employed to overcome the problem. Now if one really thinks the price in terms of cost, time, and manpower is worth to do the shoring, compacting, and other earthwork techniques necessary to strengthen the ground for the new building, one will simply go ahead and do it, I take it. Well unity in and of itself is always a good thing. It is worth the price. All the problems, real or imagined, that are impediment to its success can be addressed if the goodwill is there. But, from what I understand, you Northerner and other pro-secessionist sympathizers are stuck in the past, stuck with grievances you had with government that is no longer in power, justify the secession premise with moral authority that’s derived from colonial arbitrary judgments. Some of you are visibly angry at wrong folk for wrong reasons. According to response I usually got from some of you, no one in his right mind can even question the dismemberment of Somalia unless...fill the blanks! As of today, as I’ve said in the past, stability and peace in all areas of the country must materialize first. Likewise secession and courting with foreign powers for its delivery must stop. Ayoub, Bajunis are proud Somali citizens and they don’t have any issues with unity . The difference between Djibouti and former British Somaliland is Djibouti have other non-Somali ethnic group who object being part of Somalia. Again one of the effective power players of the region have very good argument against Djibouti joining with Somalia. French too have their geopolitical interest in the region and hence meddling with the affairs of this tiny city-state country. On the other hand, current self-declared republic of Somaliland does not represent all areas of former British colony. In every law in the book, they (oops I’m gonna get trouble with this one with Yasmine ) let me rephrase it - that territory is still part and parcel of a country with known borders respected by all nations. Parts of former British colony that want to secede must first dismember Somalia (that proved to be a toll order).

Hambalyo awoowe. Caafimaad iyo cimri dheer baan qoyska oo dhan u rajeynayaa.

I wonder why these sort of topics bring out the best you Baashi? But you never seam to realise that there is'nt much in your sleave to appease those you are trying to appease. A snake is not a recommended appeasement. Peace and i'm out! Northerner now you have addressed me I have no choice but to continue the "politiking" stuff that you seem to hate Oh Thank you sxb for noticing that "these sort of topics bring out the best you Baashi" Even I didn't realize that one. Appease? ***scratching his head trying to decipher "those"..gives up*** Help me out sxb here? Who are "those" that you think I'm trying to appease? And why would I wanna do that? What's in it for me? You don't know the card I happan to have under my sleeve! Try me sxb As to the hope that the two may unite in the future...I find that comment very promising. Tell me how it works plz...rip the arm off and when the ambuted body heals then you will stitch it back! So much of a reasoning capacity! Ayoub, "WE" are those who don't see the need for secession. They are those who think that the country is in the middle of a difficult period in its young history..as much as the former leadership had led us into the wrong direction and had abused the power entrusted in them, the country and the next generation are not liable for anything these former regimes have done. "We" are those who think that what is important is "political system" and if justice for all and the sound governence can be had then that should trump the sectarian-like colonial rhetoric where what Europian colonial power colonized what Somali part is the sole deferentiator that your lot use to justify the dismemberment of the country. "We" are us ordinary Somalis who just like you have their own corner and territory and just like you could opt out but don't see that's they way to go. On Djibouti oh well you know this inside out but since you asked let me say this. Djibouti is free. Somalis are in charge. They share this tiny territory with non Somali. It's so tiny that's indivisible. Ethiopia claims that Anfar are part of Ethiopia. Anfar don't see it that way. Djibouti is not part of Somalia that once exited and they are not "opting out". Do the math! Maxaa kuu baxay awoowe

Ayaan darro!

No to "labeling" excersise Jamaal. It won't do any good sxb. You can consider yourself an "enlightened" consensualist Somali and take up this "civilizing" mission for the "primitive" Somalis all you want. At the end of the day, all you are doing is losing touch with the actualities on the ground. Don't get me wrong sxb here! I've come to terms with one real fact and that is that Somalis back home practice tribalism knowingly and willfully (unknowingly in some cases). That being the case, how can something so ingrained in the fabric of the society be dismissed and put aside. The only sensible thing to do, in my humble opinion, is to acknowledge it and minimized to its bones stripping from all its meat and fat. How? That I don't know! What I do know is dictating sermons from your high horse won't cut it and...never has. It has been said that social engineering and policy intiatives aimed at polities take time, resources, and media campaign. Think tanks, publications, school curriculums, effective media programs, and sensible political platforms all in sync in intent and implementation is the way public perception are changed. At this juncture, law and order is the first business in order. Once the government is reinstituted and leadership credibility hve been restored then and only then do you have a shot in engaging the civic activities (in back home) you have in mind. Before I end my rumble here let me remind you that the Diaspora is the very gasoline that fuels the political wrangling abck home. I know for a fact that some of the well educated professionals do take part of the partisan political contests at home. They write essays, memorandums, articles, propaganda (for media consupmtion), and correspondences (to governments around the world and other powerful organizations) all rooting for their clan wishing to outdo the other supposedly "enemy" clan. This is where we find ourselves in sxb. It's commendable that you find disgusting what transpires back home (politically) but I don't agree with the proposition of puting down all Somalis and their Somaliness by taking the "reductive" approach where one thinks one is doing service by, in essence, reducing the whole essence of being Somali to being "animalistic". I find "Ikhwaans" attitude to be effective. Their approach to the problems both at home and in abroad is working. They help orphans, widows, and other lowly helpless segment of society regardless of their clan affiliation. They are known to build clinics, collect "qaraan" called sadaqa from the well-off "ikhwaans" and redistribute back to the needy. They operate schools in every region...what they teach is another matter. It's no accident that almost all Somali women are wearing Hijab with no one forcing them to do so. Their message is getting through and part of that message is condemnation and promise for eternal hell for all those who embrace the outdated "clannish" myths. It's no accident that the trustworthy one are "ikhwaan"...they dominate in the business sector and they rarely die for clannish causes. What I'm getting at is they manage to rally around for a cause with no caln as the unifying bind that holds their effort together. I can't say the same about Diaspora nor do I know for that matter an organization that takes a genuine interest in all Somalis without clannish or regional litmus test. Plz excuse incoherent ramble...try to make sense of it. I don't have time to reread and edit this one.

^ Preemptive strike...and good one at that. Let's see if the lectured nomad blindly obeys him and obliges his instructions. It would be a sight to see Amy and the distinguished nomad who authered this piece celebrating in a jubilant fashion for that sacred day May 18th!! waving the falg without noticing the black star on it and what that symbolizes No wonder Tolstoy has rushed to console and council our beloved Lady Amy from the thought one might entertain after reading such crap as if she needs it No surprise here! This cyber hawk is, and has always been, a true Somalilander He has spewed clannish lava against other Somalis again and again. Some of you have posted his opinions in this forum before. He hasn’t changed! The man is the same man. What's so different this time one might wonder! Well the target has changed! This time he has picked the wrong clan. He supposed to badmouth "other" Somalis not the one durriyada shares destiny with . Why else would the reaction of some folks be different say when Puntland is badmouthed? Isn't insult a insult regardless of the target? That’s all really. If anything this cyber warrior speaks in a voice and tone that does not betray his emotions! He feels so passionately about the destiny his clan have chosen and it’s for that reason that he took on those that don’t see the glory he seems to accord with SNM and its legacy. Needless to say, he is way wrong on this city and its residents. Tolstoy, I find your reasoning very interesting! I must say you’ve disappointed me in one small way. The saying “Hasha ayadaa geela cunaysaa, misana cabaadeysa is a fitting proverb in your case. Why would you take the liberty to write a lengthy commentary on the affairs of Somalis everywhere – South, North, East, West – and turn around 180 degree to reprimand us for doing the same thing? So much of “Is-Qor†comment!!! Your rather flowery verbaige in which you ornate and diffuse has no substance at all runtii! Why would you counsel lady Amy to treat other SOL members, the ones that don’t endorse the secession, with contempt? Let me ask while I’m at it this – why would you insist equating the mere cyber comments on the political discourse of your corner with sinister under-hand comment against your lot? If you really think what goes on in that corner in terms of political events (or as you put it “internal†affairs) is off limit for nomads in this forum to give their two cents why even bother posting such lengthy articles? Are you willing to practice what you are breaching and stop in meddling in the internal affairs of the other Italian former colony by the name of “South� Of course you would want to share your opinion/analysis on what goes on in Somalia as whole! You have every right to do so! This is a free forum and folks will share their take on these political events as they unfold whether in Nairobi, Mogadishu, Garowe, or in Hargeisa. It might bother you to see us challenging the wisdom of the secession and you might think that we are envious of you or we are filled with hate and the only reason we dare to question and refute the core of your case is because we can’t stand the peace, progress, democracy, victory, prosperity, and etc. you think you’ve attained for yourself! No problem!! Whatever pleases you friend but as long as this forum exists we, out of moral principle, continue to refute the myth the secessionist propagate in this forum. I expect you to be manly about these exchanges and have the backbone to take on the few mild bunches I may land on your mouth from time to time. It's a cyber swing and there is no harm in taking cyber hit with gentlemanly fashion. Keep ya head up sxb and don't stoop too low with such comments like don't talk about Northwest affairs and let me take all the bandwidth available in this site to post my lengthy articles about Puntland, Inna Yussuf, and other Somali affairs. It's your choice sxb.

Hambalyo checkmate.

Stoic, sxb siyolow is how folks pronounce the name of the city. Ayoub, Djibouti too...Haven't you noticed how tirelessly president Omar has been working sparing no effort to see his beloved Somalia back on its feet. Don't forget the Anfar factor for Anfars are not Somalis not to mention Ethiopia thinks Anfar are part of mult0ethnic Ethiopia. Now Djibouti is a nation-state (insignificant in terms of resources and land mass) and it's free. Somalis are in charge too. So in every concievable way we score 0ne and nill against Ethiopia on that contest. Rahima is right. This belongs to politics section. But somehow some partisan folks realized this after the fact. After I aired different view on the signifance of the day. Look at some of you who were acting as if this topic belonged in the general section doin a u-turn There will be more than one clan celebrating the fall of afweyne. Really? So all the of the sudden May 18th is a celebration of the fall of the former regime? Do I see u acting as a cornered kid Mogadishu too must be celebrating May 18th eh! My my...did I hear u say take this "politiking" stuff to the politics section...now u make sense for this whole thread from its tittle to this ninth page is about politics friend! This is my last one...don't u address me again (indirectly or directtly) if u want me quit this "political" stuff. :cool:

^ I'm the great defender of Somalis from overexagiration and sweeping generalization...not bad at all Very well Jamaal. As Bro Discreet put it, it's a state of mind! I assume the consent is state of mind in which Jamaal sits down somewhere in London and ponders and ponders in seclusion and examiness all that is wrong with the "Somaliness" and boom he recieves an epiphany! On a serious note, I do understand where you are coming from sxb. If I'm not mistaken you are saying our problems as Somalis are deeply rooted in our understanding as who we are and when and where our individual interest intersect with those of our clan/region. From that prespective, you are urging us to re-examine how we view ourselves! At this point I can only ask you, as your cyber buddy, to reconsider the "animalistic" label, it is bit extreme! Just doing my job...the great public defender Will come back some other time...carry on sxb.

Shez, c'mon qallanjo...oh well u will be missed runtii. You will be reading ur pm i hope... Northerner, To answer ur question yes you and your group are entitled to celebrate. You do have every right to remember and build monuments for ur fallen heroes. I don't see anyone in this forum denying you doin that. Perhaps u thought my characterization of this up coming celebration (e.g. jingoism or clannish-nationalism) as denying one's right to constitute a memorial day for one's clan. Not at all! You are forgetting where you are posting…this is an online forum for all Somalis wherever they hail from. It is only natural to expect different views on any subject that’s posted here. Since this whole secession is a very controversial issue, you should at least be smart enough to realize that there are other Somalis who see the same thing but through different lenses. We Somaliweyn love our fellow Somalis from Siyooloow, NFD to Dirirdhabe, Ogden. We acknowledge the reality on the ground. We commend the progress made and loudly support those who have maintained semblance of stability and those who have excelled in governance and rule of law. We call them “recovery zonesâ€. We strive for justice, peace, and prosperity for all. We don’t differentiate North from South or this clan from that clan or what European colonial power colonized what Somali land! This is a principle and it is this reason that we oppose secession. But somehow for some reason I think I know, you and other secessionist sympathizers are caught up in the sentimentalities! Perpetual grievances and never-ending mourning for not all Somalis that perished in the civil war but those who hail from one particular clan, sinister propaganda against the South, self-congratulatory pronouncement that goes beyond the pale, and guilty by association that points the finger at one particular clan (not those who orchestrated or was in power at the time – nay some of them are now empowered – talk about hypocrisy) and the next generation from that particular clan has now become part of the political lexicon of the secessionist. Despite all of that you are on the offensive pointing fingers at who ever dares to opine. Brother wake up, think straight, and open your eyes for once! I post my views with civility and I don’t insult you or your group. You can equate those views that don’t necessarily endorse the secession with hate all you want. It’s understandable really for if you could say all the ways this is not jingoism or why this can’t be considered as clan-minded nationalism you would without ranting and raving! But you won’t for whatever reason; perhaps it’s much easier to accuse and label than to reason and present rational explanation. Somaliland is posed to carve-up and dismember Somalia. This dismemberment is the cause you are committed to see materialize! For those who go wherever the drove goes the celebration is in part for the day when the dismemberment was decided!! I just wanted to say a brief yes to Northerner but waa ila tagtay!

Thank you I say he is not an Arab per se'! He is a German in every imaginable way who is fluent in Arabic.

Let me shock you Viking and say what you have listed above is not a science. I have strong opinion on the blood-fussion theory. I also believe the Oromo connection. Haddad, come out and say it out loud. The German who learns Arabic in Berlin is an Arab! Is that what you're implying Haddad?

Yaa ustaad Haddad u are not helping me here. Perhaps u are one of the newbies and u r unaware of my old age! The pixs and definition didn't help akhi. Reread my last post and see if u can address it. You see we had a long and bitter argument on the same subject while back here on SOL. Many nomads participated that discussion and shared there take on it. I argued that there is some sort of blood mixing through trade between the two races and since we share geographical proximity my innovative blood fussion theory is probable one, I thought. You are taking that argument to another level sxb. What I expect from u is not a redherring but simple explanation.

Hang on Haddad...so being Arab is not confined to the ethnic arabs or arab nations but is like an idea just being an American is an idea. Just like the "nuetralized" Americans go through the process of "Americanization" so is being Arab means going througth similar legal and indoctrination processes! "Arabization" if I may call it, if you are Muslim who speaks Arabic then you ara an Arab!! Did I get it right Haddad. If yes, by logical extention a German who becomes Muslim and learns speaking arabic is also an arab! Very interesting view.

Originally posted by Haddad: Conclusion : a. Somalis are Africans. b. Somalis who speak Arabic are Arabs. How about Somalis who have learned arabic in School, are they arabs too? What about Ethiopians or Kenyans for that matter who speak arabic?

Mr social scientist Jamaal11 sxb forgive me for being repetitive here but “consent†can be viewed as an assent given by one to another noh? So who the individual is giving his assent to? What is it this consent should consist of? Is it declaration by the individual to himself, to another person, like-minded group, or to an authority? Btw, individuals don’t live in a vacuum! The society is made of individuals and hence it is an extension of the individual! May I remind you that Somalis are Muslim and the individual Somali as a Muslim derive much of his/her identity and behavior from religion.

Ameenah, my take on Jamal’s consensual identity is simple. Ethnicity (being Somali in our case) needs no consent. One is either Somali, as I said it before, or one is not. From what I gather, you guys are talking about culture and all its normal manifestations in the way of social norms and habits. Somali culture, as any other culture, has its share of rigid norms. You would agree, I’m sure, that any culture when is taken in its totality is like a wrapped package where all kinds of proposition values are stored. Some of these values reflect the mode in which that particular’s society is organized. Ours (in my understanding) is a collectivist culture. The Jamal’s contention (the way I read it) that Somalis tend to derive their self-worth from groups they belong to is a fair assessment. That’s not a negative characteristic in my view! And I strongly object the “animalistic†label Jamal so eagerly throw at us Somalis. I can understand where his frustrations stem from. Today Somalis are textbook example of failed people. Somalis failed to solve and put to an end their political quarrels and sporadic civil wars. Yes, there are pockets of success (relative to other anarchic areas of the country) but Somalia, as we knew it is a failure state. Now, what my good friend Jamal and others who agreed with him are neglecting to take into the account is the fact that there are many factors, domestic and foreign, that has contributed to the demise of Somalis. Leadership, incompatible foreign ideology, regional tension with constant proxy wars, tribal sensibilities, and unfair and corrupt political power-sharing scheme are part of the equation that led us to where we are today. I wouldn’t be so quick to call our values and heritage “animalisticâ€! One has to see the bride side of the things all Somali. Like other collectivist cultures such as Japanese, we value honest, trustworthiness, generosity (that’s what saved Somalia from literal starvation), sensitivity - all characteristics that are helpful to people working in groups. Even the West (an idividualistic culture) learn one or two from Japan, teamwork being one of them. We Somalis also exhibit individualistic culture characteristics that are helpful for competing. Self-confidence, pride (yes sometimes foolish pride but pride nevertheless), assertiveness, and strong sense of entrepreneurship are known Somali characteristics. With the good there is a bad side too! We Somalis tend to think in groups in the politics realm. “Group-thinkâ€, clan-minded, fear of rejection and blind allegiance to clan leaders is one factor out of many that fuelled the civil war. Having said that, one has to understand that each and every of us is free to embrace whatever one deems to be the right behavior (what it is right/wrong behavior is another matter and frankly there is a role for the culture (religion) to outline the permissible border). When one does go out of one’s way and deviates what the culture dictates to be the norm, one is not “unbecoming†Somali as far as ethnicity is concerned but one is challenging the proposition value of the said norm! This happens in every culture!!!! The reason why Ameenah says that our culture is rigid is because ours explicitly oppose the “other†alien intruding or even corrupting cultures. Since our present day generation have no institutions that preserve the “irreducible specifity†of Somali culture, our elders have no other recourse but to shout and shame those who openly embrace the “otherâ€. Not an effective way to preserve community values! Remember each and every culture in planet earth positions itself as the one having the “universal values†and if the present prevailing political events are to be used as an example the West sees itself in a mission of “civilizing†the “otherâ€. Our challenge is how to embrace technology and other benefits of modernity without completely abandoning our Islamic universal values. Not an easy task!!! Raali ahaada waan ku dheeraaday e.

Dirac-dressed xaawaleey are too emotional to be judges Sorry shez...that's what they taught us in schools back home.

Shez, In the virtual world, I do have virtual $1 million. If u wish, u can count the beans shez