Zephyrine, Hawdy qallanjo, I take it that caring and loving your loved ones is rewarding thing to do. You are saying the families you have seen are not just experiencing enough of that. I hear ya! London must be having an effect on you Zephyrine! Is London Somali community that dysfunctional? Or is it you that lost confidence in everything Somali? I mean to think of the existence of normal, loving, and caring Somali family with responsible head as being fantasy movie like dream is scary really! Granted there are many many dysfunctional families (because of irresponsible husbands/fathers) all over. I won’t deny that qofyahay but don’t paint this gloomy picture for the readers. It’s not just simply so in America and folks who reside here can attest to this. Poverty, language barrier, lack of essential skills and what not are what our communities are suffering but love and gacalo are abundant commodity within our community. Have a nice weekend pnomads.

^Very interesting perspective! Zeph seems to be equating being a “housewife†(should’ve been mother) to being trapped in a dysfunctional family. As they say, opinions vary and reasonable people do/can disagree. Some “housewives†have it all wallahi. Yes, there are “housewives†that have caring, loving, and responsible husbands and yes the husbands are not foreigners!! Some don’t feel over employed or overburdened with the trivial house chores. Some have time to take the kids to the library, to the museums, to the park, and to the swimming lessons. Some even got time to go to summer camping! They do this on their own terms and on their own schedule. No need to mark the shared dept. vacation calendar or impress the boss for a favor to go to this or that upcoming family reunion and what not... Oh yeah these happy housewives do exist!! They are happy the fact that they don’t have to put in the regular 8 hours to pay the bills. They make use of their education in so many different ways and the fact they feel succeeding in raising kids that embrace the best of both worlds (Islamic n Western) is extremely rewarding and satisfying. They indeed feel like a real woman! (**remembers that song**) To them caring, loving, sharing one’s “quality time†with, and looking out for, one’s loved ones is indeed what makes world round. The challenge is seeing the services mothers and wives provide to their loved ones through clear lenses and see them what they really are: CARING their loved ones. The genuine ones don't equate this valuable experience with hourly service they could have put in (for someone or for some company) in return of a buck...to make a living. What if your tiger can give you double of that just to stay put...and enjoy the sunshine in the park with your precious little ones :cool: my taano.

Originally posted by Suldaaanka: Waxaan maqlay, back in the old days, Hargeisa always used to beat Burco, Hargeisana Kismayo aya ka badin jirtay, Kismayona Burco aya ka badin jirtay. :eek: :eek: Simply not true sxb. Burco soccer team had never beaten Kismayo soccer team in a match be it official or friendly one . Hargeisa, on the other hand, won the national trophy once ('86 not sure though) and gues what team they'd played against: Kismayo! Kismayo had won 7 national cups out of 13! Kismayo dominated the soccer field back in the days. True champs.

^No! Italians has nothing to do with the liberation movement and their liberation songs. I have no idea who composed the music for the song but I do know back in the days when the song was very popular it was more demonstration slogan chanted by freedom marchers than a song with written musical notes sang with orchestra playing... Ducaqabe, I remember this one. We used to sing it when I was in 3rd grade in Kismayo. Calan suubanoow, Samada u ekoow, Maalintii la sudhay, Kaanu..., ... ... Samo ku waar oo... .... U sacab tumaay, **clap clab** (we used to say ii sacab tumaay...) I also remember the caashal calam, dhuula zaman,...! I also remember another Arabic song that we used to sing....it goes like Maalaka maalaka ayuhal talmiid, Maathaa asaabak ayuhal talmiid, ijtahid ijtahid ayuhal talmiid,... No one ever bothered to tell us what it meant. Back in the days we had xiisad heeso, xiisad cayaar, and xiisad musawir it's equivalent to what is today art class and physical education....u brought back long forgotten memories sxb.

Many thanks Bishaaro iyo MMA for posting that song. You've done a great service for me and other likeminded folks in SOL forum. Thanks again. How about the other song Qoloba calnkeedu waa ceyn.. Anyone? Plz share if u have that one. Qolobaa calankeedu, waa ceynoo, Innaga keenu waa, Cirkoo kale e, Oon caadna lahayn, Ee caashaqaye. Xidigyahay cadi, Waad noo ciidamisee, ...

MMA, This is an unusual time brother. Special emergencies are in order. The speaker has to do what he has to do for he is in Mogadishu - his security, his political future necessitates taking a stand opposite in tone, and intent to whatever the Nairobi side of equation takes. On the other hand, Nairobi faction has no other option but to “represent†and look governmental where the semblance of parliament, cabinet, and president operate in tandem. This is a political hardball where the political satisfaction (beating the other side) of the personalities involved outweighs the future and the unity of Somali state.

^ Ayoub, are u on overdrive gear goin’ for overkill . Your enthusiasm and hope to see this president succeed in taming your beloved Somalia has been noted . It’s not a spin (here I’m getting inventive by the day) to say that the president is at home. For Djibouti is one of the corners of our eternal Somali peninsula (the white star on the blue background stands for something after all ). He told Kibaki that he’s goin’ home and by God he did . Waxaa la yiri news have reported that Kibaki dismissed the whole thing by making the point that his colleague doesn’t have control over that corner of his homeland. On a serious note though, the explanations we've heard from the TFG Nairobi faction so far do not add up.

Looking forward to read ur piece Sophist. Sxb here is a quick recap (first post) from my part. Mutakalim made three points: 1. Those who embrace contradictory notions of God are not in a position to point finger at other religion’s conception of God. Of all the debate tools available to them, they cannot make use of logic. To do that is intellectual debauchery. [Agreed. But watch where he goes with it] 2. Muslims (or some Muslims) believe in a Composite God. Believe in a “Composite God†is a contradictory notion in itself. Hence, "some" Muslims cannot refute the Trinity on a rational basis. In the final analysis, they are two sides of the same coin. [Agreed. But I question the use of the designation given to “Muslim†in the paragraph - Do Muslims believe in “Composite God� I would not engage any further discussion unless this point is clarified. Are we talking about some obscure miniroty firqa within Islam or Islam as we know it?] 3. Logic has no limitations. Anyone who entertains the understanding that logic has limitation is a naïve. [Disagreed! logic is a tool to analyze data and arguments and it has its limitations]

UD has missed the most celebrated of them all. Miss Perfect .... UD fill the blank plz if u would

Dhalasho wanaagsan Juxa. Cimrigaan kiisa kale caafimaad iyo khayr ku gaar.

Finally! phew! Vengeance? In return for what? asking my age around! You haven’t committed any wrong! I hope ur curiosity has now been satisfied . Address me as Oday if u would plz, will u? Plz

No I didn’t swing the topic . Sxb charity is unselfish act, a virtue, and as such can be used to contrast the narrow self interest vice. When charity is done for selfish reasons, it cease to be a charity. Are u with me on this? I consider selfishness (in my humble opinion) a negative character trait. Mention selfishness and greed comes to mind! I agree with you, however, people do things for a reason. But, the reason is not always selfish! Yes, every action has a motive. However not all actions have selfish motives. Some people are motivated by a gamut of reasons or even emotions such as happiness, feeling good, satisfaction, pleasure, and so on. However, not all people are always motivated by narrow self-interest. Sxb feeling good, pleasure, happiness, and other emotional benefits that you are associating with unselfish acts are not the end in itself. Look at the big picture? Love doing that. Remember I have no quarrel with the fact that selfishness can be viewed as the primary concern to one’s own welfare. I like to call it Danti yaqaan I even maintain that one ought to do what’s best for him as long as one is not doing at the expense of others. And the minute you realize that it is not right (morally) to get ahead at the expense of others (Nike/Western capitalism in relation to the third world), or keep your accumulated “gain†while others are dying, you have become unselfish human being who is considerate enough to withhold immediate gratification in order to do what is right. You asked “why is that duty performed in the first place??†Because it is the right thing to do! Timo fargeeto waa iska sheekeysanaynaa sxb hadde Opinions vary!

^A song sang by gifted Mooge. Words of Wisdom for those who can understand.

Afro, Not necessarily. When genuine altruist gives alms to the needy, he does so not because one drives a great pleasure from the act nor does one expects reward from it, one gives because of fullfilment of duty imposed by one’s own conscience or say by a divine directive. The notion that one cannot have genuine altruistic motivation is a nonsense (excuse the lingo). I know there are some folks who hold the view that one can “appear†outwordly altruistic but deep down one performs the act to gain personal benefit. That my friend is an unsubstantiated opinion based on dogmatic belief. I’m sure you heard people (some of them Athiests) who donate (ananymously) millions to international charities, some volunteer their time to society’s less fortunate. One would be hard pressed to claim that these altuiristic deeds are done in the hope of a return favor. That being said, I concur the fact that humans have selfish tendencies but I belief that these selfish urges are checked by religious teachings and the sense of duty innate to human nature. Is it me or you are confusing Danti yaqaan with selfish folk .

Many thanks CAAMIR. Ismail has a point.

^ Simply the best...mateekadaan yaa iska leh kulahaa Waar waxaad doontaan kala lahaadoo dalada waa anniga...kix kix kix. Nin reer waqooyi ah oo qaadireysan oo aan sadex casho indhaha isa saarin suu u qayilaayey lee baa qof xoogan oo Kenyan Bantu ah ku qabtay. Motelkiisuuba geystay. Addigu wax baa kala gaaray Subaxii markii waagu baryey baa ninkii musqusha/suuliga/xamaamka u kacay mise sariirta waxaa la jiifa ruux murqaha iyo madaxa xiiraan iyo shiirka...oo hadana tshirt iyo pants baa dhulka yaala. War ninkaaga kan maxaad ruumkeyga ka qabanaysaa miizi baa tahay...sxbkaa maneenu bilaabay. Qoftii waa iska tagtay. Issgaii waxay la noqotay in uu xalay nin la seexday...aduunkiibaa ku yaraaday. Kaaga daranne motelka waa Somali miiran. Ninkii waa cararay oo Buuhoodluu ka dagay issgaoo aaminsan in uu nin ay isla seexdeen. Subaxii danbe issagoo biibito fadhiya ayuu waxa uu maqlay hebel baa Nairobi ka yimid. Ninkii maqaayada lahaa buu u soo dhawaaday oo waxuu si hoose u yiri: Sxbkaa: War ma run baa hebel Nairobi buu ka yimid? Ownerkii: haa! Sxbkaa: Maxuu ka sheegay Nairobi. Ownerkii: ma wareysan..wax cusubse ma maqal. Sxbkaa: War ninku ma lahaa nin baa nin la seexaday

Yup. Appearance is giving the perception of being something u r not. Toss it into the trash. We're talking about genuine virtuous unselfish person. Selfishness and compassion don’t mix that well. U see charity and donations are funds drawn from somewhere in someone’s own burse. In other words, it is someone’s gain. But unlike the selfish person, this person is compassionate enough and wise enough to share his blessing with the unfortunate folk. C’mon my man Afro, u r Danti yaqaan why would u wanna put on the selfish hat?

Knock knock...may I? Being selfish is having a character flaw. Selfish folks are stingier and they are unlikely to help brother/friend out when bro/sxb are in need. Too much self love and I mean the vulgar one not the genuine self love (the source of self-esteem). They are hardly generous or loyal. What’s in it for moi? That’s their litmus test. Material good and advantages (when/where can be had) is what motivates them . Worse yet they tend to secure material goods and advantages at the expense of other people (often friends and relatives). Me don’t like them . They don’t buy shaah for me and they would happily drink the shaah I buy for them . Let's drive ur car is what they always say especially when the gas prices are high and for some reason they are always at the recieving end :confused: Smart? Nah! On the other hand, Danti yaqaan is the rational person. He does what he gotta do and when friends and families are in need of helping hand, he sacrifices (within reason) his time and resources to be there for them for he recognizes the value of family and friends. He values gacalka. My man Afro is Danti yaqaan methinks

Caaqil, Yes the names are similar! I don't know for a fact if we are referring to the same Somalis. In my limited observation the Saakuuyey in Kismayo are no "Testicle" hunters . For reer Kismayo and Giir giir would have noticed their missing relatives They are not that skilled either (unlike Madhibaan). They are hunter gathers community (if that is the right phrase). They are very independent, peaceful, and irreligious community. I have to agree with you on the point that they (if they are not Eeyle) have something in common with their counterparts in Leego, Lafoole, and Xamar and that is they all make use of dogs to hunt rabbits. Sadly they are marginalized minority. "Could these sakuuyes in Kismayo be the remnants of those days?" Could be.

^ Another Ayaan darro! Johnny, u r the come back kid! For real You have managed to summarize the thread with irrelevant snippets: Las Qoray and he said she said kinda biibato talk!!! What an incoherent blabber! Nitpicking, cut and paste misquotation won’t do sonny. Speak for urself Johnny n let Juma and OLOL speak for themselves. Why do I have the feeling that talking about looting and the looters bothers you. What is your point? What is it that you wanna talk about? Do you feel I’m beating around the bush? If you do, just say that right out loud and articulate your feelings with intelligible posts. We’ll discuss it and hopefully we will clear all the misconceptions you seem to have. Will come back 2morrow morning...ain't going away

Hambalyo and mabruuk bro Khayr. Allaha ka dhigo mid khayr iyo baraare ku waara. On a side note, the Married Club is growing by the season . We'r doin big

War ileyn tanoo kale Show abwaanku waa runtii markuu lahaa: Cuqdad iyo ruuxii ciil qabaa looma caal helo e, Iyadaan cidiba daarin buu ciq iska siiyaaye, Maxuu dameer cey igaga dhimi weyska ciyayaaye! Let’s look at these two sentences: “Juma and JJ, friends listen to me carefully. The looting question is not a ploy to discredit ur clan (I suspect that is the reason u r so defensive). Not at all!†And “it is understandable for you to defend the thuggish looting in the name of tribalism.†are not contradictory in any shape or form. The first is self explanatory and clears the air for those who are willing to breath fresh oxygen. The later is consolation for those who defend the injustices in the name of clannism. One can't help but to understand why would someone defend the loot when one puts ur justification in the context of Somali political discourse. It is sad that you can’t comprehend simple posts as the one above. Should we switch to Somali and eliminate any language barrier that we might have? On ur maahmaah of “doqonta hadalka waa loo dadaa†or as you put it agteeda usha lagu dhuftaaâ€, I say as I’ve said it before there is no need to hide anything. The SOL crowd deserves straight talk. So next time make no assumptions, just put it straight as u see it. As to Ceyda, Xaasha sxb, afkeygu ma qabto hadalada qaar. Perhaps “Aryaa annaa xoreystay†is what u mistakenly took as an underhand dig. That’s unmanly in my book and I don’t do that. If I want to engage such exchanges, I could have delivered better bunches than that. That’s below the belt and it will dampen the spirit of the discussion. FYI the phrase is the answer given to the legal owners whose properties had been looted by thuggish looters. The accent is no way implies insults. That kinda thought is very disturbing to say the least. Where did I go wrong sxb? As to the question of how the victim would have felt had the looter dismissed his hard won xalaal property as “ 'war sooco awalba xoola aad xaran ku heshey ayey aheyd'†I would say he would've been disappointed perhaps would've felt bitter or worst vow to not accept such arrogant and foolish remark. In return that would fuel the civil war and perhaps dim the hope that the reconstitution of Somali state is within reach. Interestingly enough the reason that almost half of Mogadishu residents who had fled during the civil war have gotten this kinda answer has something to do with tribalism noh?. For you to assume that because I share 38th great great grandfather with Siyad Barre and hence my property is illegal is very very telling. Here is where ayaan darro lies! I give u one point and that is looting is a looting whether is done systematically by government or done randomly by vigilante clannish thugs. The difference between us is that I don’t defend the institionalized looting nor do I excuse the former regimes in any way, shape, or form. Because I have roots in Puntland, you seem to assume that I’m doing just that. Perhaps what you don’t realize is that Abdiqasim and et al are in no position to point finger at others when it comes to former regimes and all the misdeeds they have committed. The spoils of the state have passed many hands. Bring on all the grievances on the table. We will talk over it and see what former officials have done in the name of the state. But make no mistake Xadiyo Miskiin has to get her house. She is entitled to get her hard won property back. I have hunch that Abdiqasim, Morgan, Mohamed Sheikh Osman, and et al properties will be affected. War bal innoo sheeg dhibta dawladu geysatay aan arganee cidi ay gaarka ku tahay.

One of these days, one of these days Malaaq Mado Sabarow. Innalaahi maca saabiriin yaa Malaaq. Eeyle live in Kismayo too. They live the intersection of Farjano and Shaqaalaha outer ring. To be exact, behind the industrial and military areas. They are called Saakuuyey. My older brother befriended one of the Saakuuyey boy. The boy had a dog called Simpa. My ayeeyo used to say war duf ku baxe najaasada (yacni eyga) adaan iska mayrin aqalka ha soo galin. MMA, I'm not sure whether the Saakuuyey is a sub branch of Eeyle. One thing I know is that they were similar to the ones that used to live Xamar behind Isbitaalka Digfeer. I remember, u might too since I know your brother who use to go with us when we do qooleey dawaafiyoo when I used to take my uul (the best in hawlwadaag and hodan from tokyo, suuqa miijiska all the way guryaha ruushka in hodan0, gurri gaal near the wakaalada forestary. Just behind these big houses the Eeyle were evacuated without compensation just because of class and image reasons.

^words of wisdom. Different era indeed! Oh how I love Somali poems! 45 years later, we Somalis collectively destroyed everything our founding fathers had fought for. Today we’re weaker and more divided along tribal lines than ever before. Few bad men, honored and privileged in the leadership positions have led us to this dead end road. They have betrayed our trust in political leadership. They have effectively destroyed our confidence in everything Somali. As a result, some of us are very skeptical of walaaltinimo and Soomaalinimo. These terms of endearment have lost their meaning and those who use them are not taken seriously if not ridiculed. In memoriam, I post this fitting song composed by a famous songwriter. He uses the rose metaphor. In this case the nurtured, much awaited and anticipated rose dies before it reaches the full bloom. He reminds himself and his target audiences that life is an imperfect reality that has no lasting grace. The melody of the song has sadness tone to it. Chorus of the song goes like this: Waa adduunyooo! Ileyn aayo ma lahee, Ubaxii baxaayoow, Sowdigan abaarsaday, Sowdigan abaarsaday! (repeat) Waa adduunyoo! qosol kuma hagaagtee, Ila arag..... hohiyo way, Ila arag..... In the spirit of optimism, let’s hold on every bit of hope.... Juxa good to see u still have some Somalinimo in you.

Ayaan darro that’s the first thing that comes out my mouth! Juma and JJ, friends listen to me carefully. The looting question is not a ploy to discredit ur clan (I suspect that is the reason u r so defensive). Not at all! This discussion is about Mogadishu and by extension the reconciliation process. If we are to reconstitute Somali state, we have to deal with all outstanding issues. Power sharing scheme has been the heart of the Somali civil war. That question has been dealt with and Yeey has been accorded the honor of heading the state at this difficult time. He won fair and square! Real estate (Mogadishu - Kismayo corridor) question is the heart of the current impasse. In this vain, you can’t go in circles! You cannot obscure the need to relinquish what’s been looted by justifying the current injustices because of the past injustices. The past injustices are on the table as well. You pick the timeline and bring forth all the grievances you might have with past governments. All Somalis have suffered one time or another under former regimes. No one is denying that. If you know properties confiscated by the government from its citizens by all means say so. However, one must be intelligent enough to distinguish systematic and institutionalized wrongdoings from vigilante clannish land grab. No one in his right mind can justify the “aryaa annaa xoreystay†claims. It is simply wrong. In all seriousness, this is a moral question. I understand that looking this issue through the prism of tribalism (if the ill-gotten gains are reversed with presidency already gone to Inna Yeey) it is a blow to those who have sacrificed so much. The lost of lives, the destruction, and other countless ayaan darro, For what? In this vain, it is understandable for you to defend the thuggish looting in the name of tribalism. Alla yahdiikum ikhwaani.