What the good sheekh is asking is doable. He is not advocating Iraq-style insurgency. He wants Somali problem to be solved through dialogue held in a neutral arena outside Somalia and attended by all concerned parties. He is addressing the UN and wants it to take the lead in pressuring the TFG to endorse this peace proposal. I hope TFG takes up this rare opportunity and makes a deal with him. Replace the Ethiopian troops with Arab contingency, appeal to the AU to keep their word on African troops, leave Somaliland alone, talk to Uways, resolve the Kismayo problem peacefully, and we will have arrived. Encouraging news.

You are wrong Camel Boy. Here is why: the prophet pbuh negotiated with Kufar Makkah without compromising his principles. Negotiation with Kuffar is permissible. Negotiation is always good especially when your options are limited. Surrender is totally different. By any chance have you ever heard Hudeybiah Treaty? So insurgency is mixed bag eh? I got it! Does it have a chance to succeed (through military means) given the situation?

Right on Castro. Feel free to add nicks to the list *smiling*. The way I read it is that Paragon's logic is lil bit twisted. Paragon awoowe you haven't answered my questions. Tell me are the elders and those whose name they speak for part of the insurgency. Ahmed Diiriye who is he? Warlord? A member of insurgency, shabab, UIC? You must know ins and outs of the insurgency you support sxb. Sharif is in Eritrea you said. So is Hussein Aideed No? Rumors have it that Indha Cadde is in there too! Do they share a platform? What's in for Eritrea in all of this? Is there any truth to the charge that proxy war is in full gear in Somalia?

If I'm not mistaken the insurgents met with Ethiopians. Will that move effect your support for insurgency?

^*Smiling* Paragon tell me why should Gen. Mohamed Abshir or Mudane Abdirizak Hagi Husein be liable for the actions of Inna Yussuf? Same with Dr. Mohamed Sh. Aden, Gacaliye, and Gen. Mohamed Hagi Massale; why should they be liable for the policies of Inna Siyad Barre? Horn, Baashi, Xiin, and Libaax are part of that section of the greater clan you refered to, are they as well guilty by association? It's admirable if you stand with Somali brethern in distress and it's also diserable to speak out against dulmi regardless of who commits but it is totally out of line to indict a section of the society because of the actions of politicians whose sole interest is to amaze wealth and exercise state power to satisfy their whims. Adduunyo!

What is your point, Paragon? Who said "Somali oo dhanbaa" invited Habasha? Who was behind Hargeysa "massacre"? Particular clan or National army under the direction of the leadership at the time? Who is behind the Benadir fiasco? Warlords under TFG? Yey's sub-clan? Geddi/Mohamed Dheere's sub-clan? Ahmed Diiriye's folk? How Yey's clan is responsible for all that went wrong in Somalia? Are u still supporting insurgency or you now think dialogue is the way forward? Share power? How? Through dialogue and negotiation leading to reconciliation grand meeting perhaps!... Adduunyo!

Informed people know that Somaliland, the British protectorate that existed prior the independence and the Somaliland of today are two different entities. One was managed under colonial office for the benefit of her Majesty's empire and the other is composed of independent sub-clans free to form their own administration. One half of that historical entity chose to separate and be independent of Somalia that once existed whilst the other half chose to be part of autonomous regional adminstration. The trouble is that the former half based its riason d'etre on colonial British era. It has neither the political intrigue and calculation to convince the other to dump the adminstration it has chosen to be part of nor the muscle to compel them to submit to its dictates. Party is on. Wave the flag. Dance to the new nationalistic tunes. But at the end of the day, it is what it is. Two brotherly communities whose clan sensibilities put them on collision course. Somaliland is a reality on the ground. It has achieved a lot. Puntland is another reality and it has achieved a lot. Their borders overlap. This is a problem they can live with if the wise and prudent among them tries their best to prevent the jingiosts and warmongers have their way. The business between the two recovery zones is up especially Togdheer and Bossasso. That creates jobs. The money earned from there further boost business as the households will have money to spend. Ha la baadhiyo awoowayaal.

Warlords or not they are still Somalis in leadership position and they DID "invite" Ethiopia to come in and help out. As to whether UIC posed threat that's no brainer! Melez is not playing games there. He is an oppressor who's trying to keep the lid on the separtist in the eastern front, a region Somalia claims to be part of its historical territory. UIC declared publicly that they will help them and use Somalia as a conduit for willing Muslims wanting to take part of the declared "Jihad". Eriteria sees Somalis opening another front as its God-given chance to get even with Melez. I don't know about you but if I were Melez I would have done the same...support the "friendly" bunch and finish off that potential enemy while they are weak and if Uncle Sam wants to help all to the better. UIC walked into the trap and made it easy for the other side to execute its plans. Awoowe Habasha get their chance and took advantage of the situation. Having influence over the discourse of rival nation is too tempting for any politician to ignore. Addigu kala sarif Somalida lakin in the capitals of Africa and the West, as far as they are concerned there are two sides to this conflict and one side wrapped with the garb of transitional "government" was pleading for help and because they saw it that its in their interest not to have Islamic-oriented group taking the lead in the post conflict Somalia, they were more than willing to oblige. Case closed.

Red, I hear ya. Qallanjo Z, that link is broken.

The game continues. Yesrteryear super powers strifed for superiority at the expense of the folks in the region. When one side prevailed and cold war ended, their legacy left behind a society armed to the teeth and corrupted to the core. Ethiopia have been rescued from anarchy by the leader of the free world all the while Somalia have been thrown to the wolves. Anarchy ensued. Anarchy give way to fragmentation and more anarchy in some pockets of the country. Today, in the name of War against Terror, Ethiopia is given the green light to violate all known rules in the UN books to exact its self-serving aggression on Somalia that once existed - an agression justified as an invitation granted by one side of the conflict. The game continues. Blinded by power, greed, clannism, and an unrestrained religious fervor, we failed to see the bigger picture. The contesting sides were stuck with minor details. They ignored the bigger picture to the detriment to war-weary, tired, and innocent civilians. Khartoum deal failed because UIC insisted on having TFG moved to Mogadishu whereas TFG insisted on having its security gauranteed by twenty thousand strong African and Arab troops. Both sides failed to examine the consequences...what happened in Benadir was predictable but acceptable casualty to them. Dialogue and negotiation was not an option. Here is an eye opener documentary: Cold War Surrogates - 1977 to 1979

^*Smiling* right! Abaadir, if reer Gedo are willing to vacate the said premisses I don't see any reason they need to fight over that issue. I thought they have already accepted the appointed political positions given to them. Is this latest event about power contest over control of the region (governorship, mayor or what not) or is it about bringing back the confiscated weapons and 2) vacating the government properties?

Yaw garnaqi doona?...awoowe warkuba waa intaa soo ma'aha! Good for you Horn. Finally you started addressing the issues at hand instead of attacking characters posting opinions. Still there is room for improvement. Will deal facts later but for now lets use reason. The heart of the issue seems to be that the governor along the TFG he represents wants the government premisess vacated. You are not contesting the fact that those who occupy the premises and the personalities and the militia they command who oppose the plan hail from Gedo sub-clan. You think or you seem to know the reason they reject it has to do with the fact that the sub-clan under discussion is not well represented in the appointed committee. That is a minor case to me and hardly a reason to risk the stability of the whole region!!! Hang in there...we're making a progress here. Now, do you agree that the schools, banks, governor's residence, the state house, and military garrisons should be vacated? If affirmative, when and how? If negative, why not?

The simple and hard truth is that Somalis asked Ethiopia to intervene. Which Somalis doesn't matter!!!!! Ok strike Somalis, edit it and make it something like Transitional Federal Government, the product of a two year negotiations between warring warlords "invited" them to come in and help out. That won't cut it for you aight...I understand...don't lose it and start pointing finger at anyone...hang in there...how about one faction of the warring parties asked them to intervene on its behalf. Fair enough NO? Well I know what the Ethiopia's motivation are and I also understand what Uncle Sam is after. They have their interests in the region and if they can get away with it they will pursuit it with vigor. What I don't understand is us. We all let it happen. To some TFG ascendency to power was far more dangerous than giving the Habashis and their Neocon backers the perfect pretext they have been looking for ages. To the TFG, its all about power. The clock was ticking and they were cornered by movement that seemed unstoppable. The terrorist card didn't work for them before but at last they got the chance they have been waiting for. One miscalculated the length powers that be would go to have their way and the other volunteered and begged them that they will do their dirty war if they are recognized and given the help they need to get the job done. Both Somalis! This ambassador is telling the truth if his point is that TFG invited them and the other side posed risk to Ethiopia's security. Most of you opposed Khartoum deal. However imperfect that deal might have been, it could have averted all of this as it would have denied Ethiopia the opp to exploit Neocon's war against terror world view. With both sides agreeing the proposed framework by Arab League, Ethiopia would never have the chance to get a pass from the UN, EU, and AU. *Ducking*

I don't blame them.

^good one. Neyruus party it is! If you are in party goer age I suggest you to go there and enjoy yourself. The reality on the ground is another story and as thread this attests to, no one is interested in to hear.. Dhallinyaro who show up in these parties do so for entirely different reasons. I had a Ethiopian classmate in my days in school who used to go to both 26 and 1st July parties...Minneapolis didn't had one for May 18th back then and if there was one I didn't hear it.

Our reputable magazine need at least two independent sources before we put this tidbit in print. Nayruus can you help giving us direction so we can confirm the validity of this claim. This new breaking news will appear on our Magazine. If it is true and I doubt it is, it signifies the fact that unionist are silenced and their views equated with treason and other high crimes whereas secessionism are enforced, celebrated, and imposed on the folks by few at the top.

ThePoint, I’m not sure I understand what we are discussing here. Federalism is not an issue with me. It’s done. TFG is supposed to be managing federated regional autonomies before it made fighting terrorism and al-qeada (uephamism of its opposition) its numero uno goal. The drafted constitution has not been ratified. This framework is and remains to be a proposal drafted by a congress presided by armed strongmen met in a foreign capital. In any event, federalism is not an issue at this point of time; it will soon be...but not now. At issue is TFG’s legitimacy in some quarters. The way many Somalis see it is this TFG is an imposed entity. Its friend happen to be a known historical rival of the Somalia that once existed. Given the recent events, TFG itself has become a part of the conflict. It is no secret that this TFG put all its eggs in the basket labeled “the only feasible way forward is to use any means necessary to impose order”. That approach could work for awhile but it won’t solve the long standing core issues that pitted homogeneous Muslims against each other in more than 16 years. The other point is that this plan (security plan) ties TFG’s hands, compromises its independence, and fuels the suspicion of the real motive of Ethiopian and Neocon coalition that supported the TFG aggression (criminal given the mounting civilian casualties its security plan brought about). Granted the other side has a hand in all of this and has its share of responsibility in what transpired during the Benadir standoff. The most important thins is TFG will need foreign help for long time to come and that stems from the fact that it doesn’t have the legitimacy required to manage political transition of conflict-ridden polity in which TFG itself is a faction of the warring parties. Somalia’s problems are many and very difficult ones at that. There are no easy answers that I can’t think of. The only way forward is to insist on grand reconciliation gathering. However imperfect, this is the only way in my opinion that other side can have a level plane field without firing a shot. I say this because this TFG will amass military hardware and through state power reward or bribe publicly known personalities without really addressing issue that matter the most: 1) real estate (land, farms, etc) 2) the end of its mandate 3) genuine reconciliation among warring clans 4) hard look on the constitution draft 5) Somaliland/Puntland question (border demarcation is needed even if you assume they are regional autonomies willing to be part of Federal Somalia 6) the role of Islamists in the political process 7) 4.5 formula 8) Leadership procession (matters great deal) and etc.

Allamagan don't go in circles awoowe! One-sub clan has objected to vacate government properties and their militia are ready to die for that stand. Why? You are not forthcoming on this one eh! My appologies Allamagan. You didn't deserve that term. That was slip from my part. Clearly there's one who fits the description lol. Horn awoowe bal ii sheeg hadaan gafay aan ka noqdee *smiling*

lol that could be the case but no one is asking them to vacate the properties they amazed through legal means or am I missing something here. Allamagan awoowe read my comments again. The folks, majority of them, who are staying in public and government properties are from one sub-clan. The folks who took arms in their defence are from one sub-clan. The other sub-clans are not objecting to TFG's plans to evict the refugees in public places. Care to elaborate why that is the case? True. There are many clans most of them from the known tribe in the area who have settled in Kismayo after they have been chased out from their Benadir homes. Obviously Pubtlanders are no exception. As to who came when that I don't know. What I know is that Kismayo didn't come into existence during the civil war. The city expanded and demographics changed a bit but assets, districts, villages, real estates, businesses belongs to people whoever they may ne who lived there prior the civil war NO? All objective, nuetral, and informed people know what clan the majority of these folks belong to. Kismayo is not different from Berbera, Baidowa, Boorame, Beledweyne, or Mogadishu. In any event, the most important thing is not to destablize the city now. This issue is manageable one. TFG should not rush to evicting folks there by force. The militia from Gedo should be confident enough to do what all other sub-clans have done and accept the gardual return of public and government properties to the TFG hands unless they consider TFG as an illigitimate entity. PS: Allamagan yaaci has its roots to yaac like is-grab-yaac like reer dudaaye gang in Madino, Benadir in early eighties. Now is dhex yaac kuma haboona this forum. Libaax owns the forum and he's trying to make it respectable forum where ideas, opinions, and issues are debated. You and horn are tackling my online personality...it doesn't bother me a bit...I'm just telling Libaax that his effort are in vain since he can't change dunta Somalida ka sametsan tahay regardless how hard he tries. Be fair now awoowe of all the nomads who post opinions in this forum I'm the last one who object post that has substance that I can get mu hands around...

Typical SOL political section discussion! Some nomads find more convenient to ignore ideas, arguments, opinions, issues, and what not and instead attack personalities. Hello! Simply stated, making snide remarks about my online personality is no substitute for an argument! You can do better than that fellas. At issue are land and government properties in Kismayo. TFG wants them vacated. All sub-clans in the area are for it except one particular sub-clan!! Why is a fair a question? Anyone? It should be noted that this sub-clan endorses TFG!! My view is that these folks 1) majority of them belong to one particular sub-clan. 2) are recent migrants. 3) don’t own properties in the city hence their insistence on staying put in public and government buildings, 4) it’s TFG’s interest to find its own militia families a place to live in or leave them alone for now. Peace is at stake here. Awoowe ina rag isku wada ra’yi ma ahee hadaad dood ka qabtaan dee abaartiin jeedsada oo dood macne leh la soo shir taga!! Xiinoow forumkii belaa degtay. Waxa ila tahayba lama oran karo. Dooduba qabiiliiste iyo waa terrorist iyo waa daba dhilifba dhaafi weyday sxb. Libaaxoow see yeelaa awoowe yaaci baa na xagxaganeysee!

Awoowe I understand where you're coming from...I really do! but think about it keeping the peace and having biz going is much more important than having this upstart Afgaduud and the governor exact their revenge on one the clans residing the city. Without guns reer Gedo will be harmless and the residents of the city will wind up controlling the city without TFG's help. Money, assets, Kenya connection, owning the means of production will make the difference. All they are asking are political appointees (that can change anytime the admin changes so there is no big deal there) and have their maato live in goverment installations (they are open to compromise -- let them keep destroyed factories and coal laydown yard plus enji) That's win-win situation. Castro, It's clan contest like no other we've seen before. You have two clans one from PL and one from Afmadow who contest control over Lower Juba on the one hand and both these two rivals trying to prevent the new stake holder fro Gedo to cement its gains during the civil war on the other hand. There is no easy fix!

Northerner, the job went to French-Canadian company. We lost the bid. Just got back from two week vacation...had to dig this one up.

BoB, We're way behind in technology, medicine, and other knowledge-based endeavors. We frown upon anything good governance. Combination of the two above = backwardness! Backwardness = weakness. Weakness gives your enemy the chance to exploit you and keep you under their thump.

Smiling @ "least resistance" path. Surprised Rudy's knowledge in electricity...

What you know fellas! They have already met once in secret. They will meet again. Where is irrelevent. E-factor is in full force. Uncle Sam wants Somaliland to be treated as a regional autonomy but part of Somalia. It will let Melez work out the details. Inna Yussuf in principle opposes secession. Inna Riyale is in trouble at home and wants his parliament to decide on this question. However you look at it Ethiopians seemed to be the ones who are aclling the shots. Belo ku dagtay. PS: UN upgraded the security status of the recovery zones to state III. The funy thing is it left Sool and Sanaag out. They are not calling as part of the SL or PL. It left those parts as code IV. Very very telling if you ask me!! The reason this is important is that the donors tie their activities to the security of the area under which their staff operate. Treating the recovery zone like the rest of the country means loss of hard currency.