^^Xiin can speak for himself. I Know he can. He is 100% for the reconciliation effort. He said so.

I hear ya awoowe. First are you behind the reconciliation effort if the concerns you have highlighted are addressed? Camel Boy, That could happen...

Farax, 1. Are you strong enough to wage an effective insurgency? 2. Do you have other Somalis on your side or this is a cause taken up by few sub-clans? 3. What do you want? 4. What are your realistic plans to attain your goals? My problem with your cyber warmongering is you seem to be a chiken hawk ya know what I mean! You provoke Ethiopians and Ugandans and you run away and hide behind civilian areas. When hell broke loose you turn around and base your resistance on the very civilian casualties you yourself instigated in first place! That's not a plan that's bannoni ku ciyaar maatadaada inta dhagax ku soo tuurtid gaal aan ku turihayn Ilaahayna ka baqayn. War maxaa idinka qaldan?

Xiin, what is this reconciliation thing good for then?

The old fart is but one man. he can die any minute! What then? Who are you guys gonna blame next? If willing, the concerned parties can use Uncle Sam's fears to address the reconciliation format. The will to take the negotiation route as opposed to insurgency route must be there awoowe.

No awoowe...Yoweri wants the average family in Mogadishu to enjoy peace. He volunteered his troops to lend a hand provided others will foot the bill. He can cut his losses 2morrow and take his trrops out of harms way. Ethiopians will fill the vacuum and as you have seen they are willing to kill 10 for one fallen Habash! Awoowe maxaa kuu siyaaday?

Waxan maqli jiray: Dawladi ma reer baa, Ma dukaan nin leeyaa, Deen ma xoolahaagaa, Daaca qurun ma dheregbaa. Hadda inna Shaaweeye ma dhaxal buu ku helay jagada?

Big mistake! Ugandans are here to help us. They have abstained from the recent fighting. Why kill them? What have they done to Benadir folks? The insurgency are making the case for the TFG charges. Big mistake indeed!

Bokero awoowe Somalis are recent immigrant and refugee one at that as oppossed to economic migrant (skilled and talented, top of the cream kinda folks). What that means in plain English is that the Diaspora is a cross section of Somalis at home...from janitors, goat herders, to school teachers...not the kinda community we come to associate with "Diaspora". Awoowe ma ila socotaa. In any event, awoowe the country Somalia is no more. I know folks who don't give credence to your likes for they don't believe anyone could be that caring to something so elevated as to nation or country...a reflection to their principles. I have an idea for you boowe: support the reconciliation effort, contribute to wells, schools, universities...anything that's of use to the community...do that and you have done enough.

LZ, Somaliland/Puntland issue is on the table awoowe. They are seen as clans by other stakeholders in this venture and if we are to have reconciliation of Somalis, by Somalis, for Somalis they need to show up. Of course no one can drag them to the dirin but the need is there. Dabshid, You gotta be realistic awoowe. Warlords are the ones who are sleeping with the enemy. They call the shots. The minute it becomes apparent that their necks are on line, they will do their best (collectively) to make sure this one fails. Awoowe perfection is not a human attribute. Large swaths of Somalia is in a mess. It has been that way for the last sixteen years. Today we are under the thump of Ethiopia more or less!! We better move on and move this reconciliation thang forward or we will find ourself in very very difficult position. We can keep on pointing fingers and shift blame around! The bottom line is: it is what it is! Ethiopia is here, Uncle Sam is in support of what the Ethiopians are doing, EU barks but no action, AL have been sidelined by the UIC group and they have lost face with the powers that be as it became apparent that they didn't any influence on UIC, and TFG thinks is winning as their nemessis are relagated to the dustbin of history. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, the reconciliation effort, if succeeds, is the end of TFG in its current form. If it fails to materialize, TFG will rule by default. Recognition, money, and miltary support...they will have it all.

No need for contribution from any1 for this mission Bokero as pics and reports of the refugee camps are readily available in cyber world. By the way Somalis make up a fraction of refugees running from wars! Somali Diaspora have done a great deal for the Somali refugees. I challenge you or anyone who shares your view on this issue to cite any Diaspora that cared as much and sacrificied so much for their loved ones as Somalis did and continue to do to this day. I know folks who forgot their future in order to help their relatives back at home. Back home they are called Nolol lagu dhaxal as he/she sends money month in and month out! Success story in Benadir, Bossaso, Hargeisa, Borame, Galkacyo...schools, universities, hospitals, you named all are financed by the Diaspora. There are companies that made fortune in remmitence biz. Awoowe there is always room for improvement but if there is anything positive that I can say about Diaspora is how they have helped and still continue to help their relatives back at home or at refugee camps.

Fussing and fighting should give way to talking and reconciling… Waa Siday Tahay Monthly Journal By War-San Inna Weer-San *Commentary* Cyber Mundul, May 16 – Somalia’s woes come in many forms: perpetual anarchy, starvation, piracy, cruel and inhumane extortions imposed on the poor by alternating warlords, slavery, clan-cleansings, and sinister foreign interferences. No one is for keeping Somalia in that state. Almost all Somalis are for normalcy and stability! Somalis with the help of regional and international actors have tried to reconcile the clannish differences between contesting warlords that kept this tiny nation in such sorry and pitiful state. Each and every one of them failed! Today one faction of the contesting warlords appears to be in power. Foreign interest groups seem to be in command, on the ground, and running the show– more powerful and more influential than they have ever been. And Somalia is now part of Uncle Sam’s “war on terror” game plan! Looks like that Neocons have succeeded to compel Ethiopia (another regional player with its own interests in Somalia) to do what it has to do to make sure that a “friendly” regime, any except Islamists, takes the helm in the post-conflict Somalia. In addition to the convergence of regional and super powers’ interest in Somalia, animosity between clans is as high as it has ever been. With recent fighting in Benadir, weakened clans in the area seem to be in a war footing! Kismayo is yet again on the verge of civil war. The control of the port is at stake! All sides are weighing their options. It looks like the differences between the sides are irreconcilable. With the defection of former shadow secretary of defense, the prospect of inter-clan wars in the Lower Juba is all time high! In short, the calculus of negative tribalism has not changed a bit. If anything it has been enhanced by recent sequences of events. Up in the recovery zones politicians from the regions that fall inside the overlapping self-styled borders of these two entities continue to play on both sides of the quarrelling administrations in essence putting their constituents at risk. The recent event in Sanaag highlights their recklessness! The issue of redrawing the borders of what admin controls what district has not been explored let alone resolved. The tensions between the two zones are high but the détente of Garowe and Hargeisa continues to serve as a check to the double-faced politicians. Both sides know that using force in settling the dispute is not an option. Considering all the facts mentioned above, the reconciliation route seem to be the best route open to contesting factions and their loyal clans. The lesson-learned from the sixteen years of all out war between Somalis is that no single clan or coalition of clans has been able to prevail (decisively) in the contest. Past reconciliations efforts too have failed. This one is different, however. The outcome of this reconciliation effort will be binding in the sense that there are teeth behind it. Somalis can use the presence of foreigners on their soil to their advantage. The alternative is a watered down “occupation” and biased support to one faction of the conflict. If post-conflict Somalia is founded on injustice and the defeat of one faction, ten, twenty years down the road, this nation may see another “correction” in the form of another civil war. To ignore the fact that Somalia is now between the jaws of big, bad, and powerful monster is not realistic view anymore. Sit down, talk it over, and come up imperfect but fair framework of managing Somalia.

1. Security 2. Grievances (clan level) 3. Properties that changed hands (individual level) 4. Power (checks and balances – take away all incentives - modesty salary, periodic audit, financial disclosure prior taking office) 5. Federalism (confederation, central republic, regional autonomies, etc) 6. 4.5 formula (revision is in order – constituent-based for instance districts that have 20,000.00 will have parliament seat, 50% vote is minimum, if candidates fail to meet the treshold there will be runoff) 7. TFG’s mandate (who will replace them, how – explore the transition mechanism) 8. Islamists (their role - the name is for any party with political platform that advocates shari'a based constitution) 9. Foreign Troops (should we keep them until the trust between Somalis is restored – let’s discuss it plus replace Ethiopia with Muslim troops) 10. Somaliland – Puntland dispute (how to tackle the issue – explore the options - name ad-hoc committee drawn from nuetral and trusted statesmen to draft recommendation of how to proceed) 11. Somaliand secession issues (address their fears – give them incentives) 12. Constitution (revise it and address the contradictions in the draft) 13. Minorities – unique issue as they don’t have an influential reps at the table (national apology, compensation, give them an influential seat on the table – Baajuun, Tuni, Jiido, Jareer, Gibil-Cad, Persians, Yemenis, Omanis, Zinzibars – turn over their prime properties in Kismayo, Marka, Barawe, farms areas between rivers, and Benadir) 14. Emphasis on Meritocracy and Competence in national offices (enshrined in constitution – offices that handle job discrimination on the basis of clan affiliation – somewhat like equal opportunity employment laws in states but in reverse order- recourse is available for anyone who feels that he/she was overlooked because of clan affiliation) 15. Warlords (crimes have been committed and justice has to be served – what to do with them keeping in mind their influential position and how they can derail the reconciliation effort if they feel that their necks are on the line – blank amnesty? Explore the issue)

With Nuradin Farah as a mentor, you won't go wrong on that dept. awoowe. Good to see you posting again buddy. Do you blog?

Good for you Val. Enjoy it qallanjo. Have you tried vegamite yet? Four of the Senior Engineers in this office are from Brisbane! I tease them with this vegamite thang.

Kudhaa is not an island. Kudhaa is a Baajuuni town (majority). Hebelada aad kala sarifaysaan live in nearby villages. Juulaay iyo juwaale are island taako away from the Kudhaa! Galti through and through wouldn't know anything about Kudhaa of course!

Cool heads will prevail Insha'Allah. I see people who have never set foot on Kismayo prior civil war calling the city their hometown. Not surprise there! Xiinoow awoowe iga sax waxa ila tahay waad haysaa gabaygan e: Dayfkii reerka martiyay ee daacadu soortay, Oo goortuu dibiray maalkii reerka kula dooday, Kamay duwana tay wadaan nimankan.....! That was Hargeysaawi oo ku yara laadaya niman ragooda ku jira! Dayf is arabic word meaning guest!

None of the folks in this forum have anything to gain from this tragedy. Most of them come here for fun iyo inay addiga muran ku qaniinsiiyaan. Why Somalis fight? Somalis, apart a minority of livestock traders in Berbera and Bossasso (and their network that spanned from region 5 to gulf), fishing communities in port cities, and farmers adjacent to rivers, worked for the state. Those who had government jobs carried the burden of all their relatives (the latter category is where most Somalis fall). One government employee supported at least 9 mouths. Those who were in power exercised absolute control over the government workers. Nepotism, corruption, abuse, you named people endured a whole lot. The clans who have someone in high places used the clan card to exact justice or in some cases get favors. State power meant everthing!! When two clans fight over grazing rights or over scarce water holes in miyi, the clan who have clan-affiliation with the nearby big shots counted on and infact recieved a backup and won the skirmishes evertime. Majority of the people from that era (todays leaders)know what the state power means. It means job security, it means a safety net, it means wealth (corruption), it means everything. The stakes are high boowe. Ethiopia, Eritrea, Yemen, Egypt are all used by the contestants to get the upper hand.

On Somalinimo It worked prior 1960. It failed after and during independence. Way sarrifantyay! In time of war, unity is a desirable goal. Is united Somalia practical today? The answer is resounding NO! Is Somalinimo, if possible, desirable? Absolutely! Should we call on all Somalis to put their differences aside (in the face of Ethiopian aggression) and unite as one people who share religion, ethnicity, territory, culture, language, and what have you? We can always try! It is sure one notch better than negative tribalism. On Secession Some in the area want to secede. Others in the same area want to stay put. Both groups live in former British Somaliland territory. The former failed to sell [edit] "their" project to the latter, and vice versa. The latter is the founding clans of Puntland. As Ngonge implied, negative tribalsim is th central issue here. At this juncture the game is between SL and PL admins. Somalia sits on the bench. The world treats both admins as two important recovery zones and wants to keep them that way. Ethiopia benefits the animosity between them. Legitimacy requires consent. Somaliland doesn't have the consent of the disputed areas. Sovereignty implies that one has the ability to exert control over the territory under one's rule. On possible positions For those of us who know better realize that this is a Somali civil war. It's about state power and all its trappings. It's about who gets what title in post conflict Somalia. It is rat race. Majority of the contestants tried hard to get the neighboring states on their side! Most innocent civilians are the ones who paid the price in the race to prevail and lead the post-conflict Somalia. Looking things from this prespective, there are also another set of possible positions: 1) Call for immediate cessation of violence followed by genuine reconciliation talks. 2) Support one side of the conflict. Ethiopia cannot sustain "occupation" without the support of some Somalis. You can hate them, call them names, and indict them with high crimes but you cannot deny the fact that they are 1) Somalis 2) Consider Ethiopia a friend on their side. Insurgnecy is not the solution. Having Ethiopia do the dirt biz of "clearing the bush" for a bumpless ride is equally couterproductive. Warmongering efforts from 1000 miles is nothing but empty rhetoric. There will be negotiation. It will happen sooner or later. The question is how many lives must be lost and properties must be destroyed before that day comes. Baaruud, You are confused. Somaliland is here. They are our people. We disagree with the admin with their secession drive. We are not going to let them speak for those who are capable of speaking for themselves! No one hates you!!! There is no reason to do that. You just have to learn the fact that folks reasonable folks can and will disagree on matters of large importance. Ayoub, Xiin's point is that if Somalia is divisible so is Somaliland! Simple. You are right on one thing though Somalinimo (brotherhood) is not credible pronouncement anymore. The record, as you implied, speak for itself. On Djibouti, awoowe Djibouti is here because of Somalinimo. We supported, gave them aid, compforted them, allocated funds for the liberation movement, negotiated directly with France, compromised with Ethiopian demand, and enlisted the support of Arab League, African States, and UN. It was one of Somaliweyn foreign policy's triumph. Yes they are not part of Somalia. Ethiopia claimed Anfar as part of Ethiopia's ethnic collection. France exploited Ethio-Somali dispute and wanted to keep that city-state by citing these 1) its independence will destablize the region 2) Soviets will get hold of its strategic ports. We played the game and delivered Djibouti from the chains of European captivity.

You must be from Kismayo awoowe! Common now admit it ya Emperor

Calankeena bulugloow Cawaale... Calan suubanoow samada u ekoow... Qolobaa calankeedu waa ceyn oo... Caasha calam..(arabic) I remember all these nationalistic chants...I hated it when I was young for they forced us to sing them day in and day out. Later I understood why. These were the national anthem (or/and variation thereof). This TFG doesn't have the mandate to change anything. Their mandate is limited to manage a political transition, heal the wounds of the civil war, jump start true and genuine reconciliation efforts, name an ad-hoc committe to recommend the way forward i.e revised constitution ratified by all the federal regions prior all-inclusive election managed by UN. All that is not possible for there is no peace in the land.

Ayoub, You haven’t changed a bit awoowe. Sidaadii baad wax is daba marineysaa! Khartoum deal didn’t work for two reasons: 1)the delegates couldn’t work out the details and 2) they couldn’t restrain their camps. Geddi went on the record rejecting the whole thing in toto. Inna Yussuf approved the delegates and tried to get rid off of his PM. He failed. I know TFG is hated beyond belief by some but let’s be objective on the events that took place in the run up to the war. Ceyrow, Turki camp of UIC along sneaky “Mujahid” IndhaCade stabbed Dr. Addow’s camp by violating the cessation of violence deal they signed in Khartoum. Sherrif and Addow have shown Somalis that Islamists are not bunch of militia boys rushing to impose Sharia law without laying the ground work necessary to have a successful Islamic republic. They were mindful about the looming threat and tried to avert as best as they could. I wish I could say the same thing about the other camp. The four camps Inna Yussuf camp, Geddi’s camp, Shabab (military) camp, and UIC political camp contradicting each other was a key factor among others that killed the deal. Equally important was the details in the deal. Even if the two camps were to agree on the framework Arab League formulated, a framework Inna Yussuf camp and UIC political wing were willing to explore, details proved to be a tall order! What AL put on the table was a framework that would allow the TFG to complete its tenure, would share power with UIC, deploy Arab-African security forces (no front states) that would guarantee TFG’s security and serve as buffer between the two militia before an integrated national army drawn from these two militia can be constituted, and give Islamists a viable chance to seize power through peaceful manner in the post-conflict era by allowing them to have a political party that would take part of political contest in anticipated elections 2009 managed by UN, IGAD, and AL along with other regional and international actors, etc. They were the favorates by all accounts. UIC shabab wing expanded its territory, TFG freaked out and asked Ethiopian backup, and the rest as they say was history. Castro, Awoowe the hard truth is that Somalis looked on the Habasha troops having their way with some of Benadir residents from a distance. Xudur, Biadowa, to Benadir, Ethiopians forces cruised with ease. None of them ever lifted a finger. Geddo, half of Benadir, areas between the two rivers, Shabelle/Juba regions, and Hiiraan residents seem to be going about their biz as if it is business as usual. Insurgency would have gotten teeth had the residents in these areas showed the passion and valor some of Benadir residents have shown! Why are they so indifferent to the plight of some of the Benadir residents? Are they pro-occupation? Are they anti-Islam? Tell me why? Today you have Aideed Jr. a man who took part of the UIC’s defeat allegedly sleeping in bed with Sherrif. You have Eritrea trying its best to exact its revenge on Ethiopia by making sure that Iraq-like insurgency materializes in Somalia! Not a good idea..

Am I wrong want to live peacefully with you and all other Somalis in one Somali state? Am I wrong to say that my nation should be united instead of divided? Am I wrong to say lets look objectively at history? Am I wrong to say we should judge all criminals equally? No. Succession is a political platform. You have the right to have a diff view. Hek you have the right to campaign against that policy. Anyone who says you hate them they need to do some soul searching.

ME's case is robust. He opposes fragmentation for a reason. He said why countless times. He wants united, just, inclusive Somali state. Difficult goal yes but nothing wrong for advocating a noble goal. I can appreciate Kashafa's forceful, firm, and unshakeable stand in everything Islam. It's admirable position. The trouble is the very reasons (the ones he cited to impeach Somalinimo) that rendered Somalinimo null and void can be cited to impeach Muslinimo - Somali version. Somalis are not only Muslims in their mere chants of La Ilaha IlaLah but most of them will kill you if you display the slightest doubt in their faith in Islam. Yet they have violated every ayah in the good book and they are still doing all the examples Kashafa cited in his long write-up. Now one can say they are not true Muslimiso. The UIC are the true Muslims. Well the bad Somalis are not true Somalis. ME is the true Somali. Looking forward to calm, collected, and thoughtful discussion in the pipe. I urge SOLers to let them work it out. I trust that they will tackle issues, opinions, and arguments not the nicks or what each other siad in other thread. Start from stratch. No cheerleaders in the mix, no doc-ka-yeeris. Let them have a go at it. It should be interesting.

Nasir, I see a CADD file. Easy said than done. All the best to the biz man. I respect biz folks. They do a lot of good and they r the first ones to dump the clan crap. They do that for a reason. It's not good for biz. Bosso is case in point.