Kelligii Muslim Kashafa, The short answer is NO. Sheikh Gacameey, Sheikh Abdullahi Cali Salad, Sheikh Dahir do not need to take lectures from M.o.r.y.a.n-in-Chief IndhaCadde. Is that crystal clear enough for you?

Blve you me awoowe I am not, in any shape or form, implying anything. I am convinced that secessionists and Al-Shabaab have diametrically opposed interests. When the two interest clash you will be forced to take a stand. I would like to know NOW which flag would you be waving if that day comes.

I am not implying anything. I want to find out where you stand on the critical issues. So you are a Somali nationalist! Your support for Al Shabaab is based on your opposition against Ethiopian occupation? You are not for what Al Shabaab, as a movement, stand for . You are just against TFG and Ethiopians.

I am sure an Islamic umbrella can only be good. But that is not what I asked. All I am asking you is unequivocal answer. If you must go ahead and gimme an "in depth" version. Thierry, do not be a simpleton. He has not answered the question. He is either for secession or he is for Al Shabaab. If Al Shabaab wins the war there will be another war between the two as they don't see eye to eye on the question of united Somalia under Sharia law presided by an Islamist. It is that simple. I want to know NOW where my man Northerner stands on the question of secession when it hits the brick wall that is Al Shabaab.

Yes to that question, I take it. You owe me one more answer awoowe.

So you are against the secession. Is that what I am hearing from you buddy.

We are not debating here. You said you are up for questioning. The second question is crystal. Will you allow Al-Shabaab after they kick Tigre's behind and liberate parts of the South to turn around and spread the message by force to other parts of Somalia that once existed. Now there is a follow up Q on the first Q: Are you for dismembering Somalia that once existed into fiefdoms on the bases of what European power colonized what corner once upon time?

I hear you. You have yet to answer the questions I posted though.

180 deg turn. Still my hat is off to him

Al Burcaawi, awoowe I agree with Duke in saying that there is conflict of interest between secessionsts' end goals and what Al Shabaab have in mind. If you can reconcile these two diametrically opposing objectives awoowe I am all ears.

North, you did not have to do this awoowe. But now you've asked for it I got two simple questions for you. I do not need clarifications. Yes/No answer will do. Are you for Sharia law for Somalia that once existed? Are you for forcing administrations that are not prepared to accept the imposition of Sharia law (irrespective of what masses want) on the domains under their rule?

"Should Al shabaab invade Ethiopian's bases in Puntland?" The short answer is NO.

I can't help but agree with General Duke on this one. The conflict of interest is difficult one to explain away.

Thiery, awoowe one is either a secessionist or one is not. Period. Secessionists want Somalia that once existed dismembered into what European colonial power subjugated and colonized what fiefdom. Al-Shabaab want to realize one Somalia that is indivisible, under Shariah rule, and led by Islamist. Conflict of interest? You bet!

Here is satirical piece popularized by An Landers. There is nothing sadder than a childless couple. It breaks my heart to see them relaxing around swimming pools in Florida, sitting all suntanned and miserable on the decks of their boats — trotting off to Europe like lonesome fools. It's an empty life. Nothing but money to spend, more time to enjoy and a whole lot less to worry about. The poor childless couple are so wrapped up in themselves, you have to feel sorry for them. They don't fight over the child's discipline, don't blame each other for the child's most obnoxious characteristics, and they miss all the fun of doing without for the child's sake. They just go along, doing whatever they want, buying what they want and liking each other. It's a pretty pathetic picture. Everyone should have children. No one should be allowed to escape the wonderful experience that accompanies each stage in the development of the young — the happy memories of sleepless nights, coughing spells, tantrums, diaper rash, debts, "dipso" baby sitters, saturated mattresses, emergencies and never-ending crises. Then comes the real fulfillment as the children grow like little acorns and become real nuts. The wonder of watching your overweight ballerina of twelve make a fool of herself in a leotard. The warm smile of a small lad with the sun glistening on 500 bucks' worth of metal braces ruined on peanut brittle. The rollicking, merry, care-free voices as hordes of hysterical kiddies stampede at the birthday party. A married couple without little ones envy their neighbor's bairn. It isn't enough to be god-parents to the entire block, they still miss out on that glorious period of childhood that is alive, exuberant and bursting with healthy impulses to shatter the shredded nerves. I pity the couple without children to brighten the cocktail hour by brushing the martini from the shaking hand, to massage the potato chips into the rug and to wrestle them for the olive. How dismal is the peaceful home without the constant childish problems that make a well-rounded life and an early breakdown; the tender, thoughtful discussions when the report card reveals the progeny to be one step below a moron; the end-of-the-day reunions with all the joyful happenings recited like well-placed blows to the temples. Children are worth it. Every moment of anxiety, every sacrifice, every complete collapse pays off as a fine, sturdy adolescent is reached. The feeling of reward the first time you took the boy hunting — he didn't mean to shoot you, the lad was excited. Remember how he cried? How sorry he was? And how much better you felt after the blood transfusion? These are the times a man with a growing son treasures — memories that are captured forever in the heart and the limp. Think back to the night of romantic adventure when your budding daughter eloped with the village *****. What childless couple ever shared in the stark realism of that drama? Aren't you a better man for having lived richly, fully, acquiring that tic in your left eye? Could a woman without children touch the strength and heroism of your wife as she tried to fling herself out of the bedroom window? It takes a father to attain the stature of standing by, resolute and ready — ready to jump after her. The climax was when you two became closer together and realized that, after all, your baby girl was a woman now. A lovely young woman with the mind of a pygmy. The childless couple live in a vacuum. They fill their lonely days with golf, vacation trips, dinner dates, civic affairs, tranquility, leisure and entertainment. There is a terrifying emptiness without children, but the childless couple are too comfortable to know it. If they'd had kids they'd look like the rest of us — tired, gray, wrinkled, sagging — in other words, normal. Written by Roslyn South and appeared in a 1957 issue of The American Mercury Hope you got the subliminal message the author is trying to convey in this hilarious satirical writeup

Hadaan Afar bawdyo Badhaqtamin Hadaan bisqanyo isku qawqamin Hadaan Wax la dhabin wax lama dhalo

No I don't have problems with my tolka. Some are rich, some are poor, and the rest are in between. I help the poor and the sick when I can. When elders try to settle a dispute, or mend a broken marriage or try to put out fires I chip in few bucks. I got nothing but respect for folks who strive to make a difference in their community. Don't highlight only the negatives. I am sure your tolka come in many shapes and sizes.

What I have in mind is simple and straightforward. I want you to take a position on the conflict I can wrap my hands around. As it stands now you are all over the place. That said, I think your last post has distinguishable flagpole I can pin on the ground. You said that dialogue is not the only venue. The other venue is to keep on fussing and fighting, I take it. I see an open goal right there. But today you are making all kind of excuses to not get down to the business of making the case for or against the multiple assertions you have just made in your post. Awoowe TFG in itself is not a vehicle that could transition the country to post-conflict Somalia! Hence you don’t have to reject that assertion for no one has made that assertion. However, TFG -- and you said it’s dominated by certain sub clans -- is indeed a faction of the conflict and as such it should take part of the negotiated settlement. Ethiopian presence is also an issue of large importance. We got two potential cases to dissect. 1. Is TFG a faction in this conflict? If affirmative, should it take part of the reconciliation proceeding? If negative, who will represent (short of defeating them on the field outright) Mohamed Dheere, Ali Mahdi, and allied sub clans in TFG faction in the proceeding? 2. What is the best and cost effective way to get rid of Tigre mercenaries? The operative word is “best” here. Implicit in the question is how to make Ethiopians leave without exacerbating already dire situation? Are there any objections to what I wrote above? If there are any, please correct them and lets get going. I will show the gallery the holes of your logic. I know it will prove difficult for you to engage in a civil and gentlemanly discourse given your camel herder background but please try your best to only tackle the case. I will cut you some slack if you slip.

******* ****** ******** [ June 24, 2008, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

Sweet. Now what is your position on the need to end the conflict, that's ragging in the south as we write, through dialogue? The terms, the venue, are details. Let's get the basics down fisrt!

Awoowe kaliya waxa aan doonayaa in halka uu ka imaanayo iyo halka uu u socdo bal aan fahmo dadkuna ila arkaan. Doodiisuba waxay ku soo urrurtay addigu TFG-da hoosta kala haysaa. Waa ad hominem soo garan maysid. Sida kaliya oo dee taa looga weecan karaa waa sida aan haatan yeelay. Shido ma leh hadii ra'yiga lagu kala duwanaado. Belo waxay ka joogtaa nin sidii dumarka kuu af lagaadeenaya oo aanay waxba uga intaa uga hoosayn.

Where are you? Come out! This is my way of saying 'put up or shut up'. Maa caleesh I'm running out of time.

This is your chance to skin "a wretched pip-squeak" like me. What role would u like me to play? Are you volunteering for the hot seat or you want me to occupy it? It will be a new thread.

Oodweyne are you up for a manly challenge? I'm not interested in your usual tororog iyo cantrabaqash. Let me know. [Edit]: Actually this is what I have in mind. Cross examination a la court proceedings; Defendant: Oodweyne Judge: Public Opinion Case: Ha la dirriro dagaal waxaan ahayn daawo lagu waa -- You will have to defend the position for continuation of hostilities until one side wins the price. Corolorry: cost and duration of war is irrelevant. Prosecutor: Baashi Case: Oodweyne is guilty of warmongering and he is sabotaging the quest for ending hostilities. Roles can be reversed. Only two of us. Answers will be limited to 45 words per question.

Oodweyne, same old song buddy! I sift through the cantrabaqash you spilled on the forum and unfortunately I don’t have time to wipe up the splatter of tororog on the screen.. Gimme new material I can wrap my hands around awoowe.