This is simply coz semites aka arab n hebrews have inter-mingled with certain hamatic tribes. Che..we are on same page. The only thing is I like to put more faith in our oral history. True Swahili look different as their interaction between them was very recent and constraint with muslims place on pagans where marriage is concern is very strict. We are Africans as Spanish are European. Everywhere on this globe where races interact the blood infusion is inevitable and undeniable.

Even scholars couldn’t come up a definitive answer! Surprise! It is not science…it is like Hitler’s eugenic project and his quest to place the Aryan race top of the human ladder. Remember people he entrusted that project were Anthropologists. Both Dr. C.G. Seligman and Loring C. Brace concluded that, we Somalis are Caucasian if Siman’s article is valid. While Joseph H. Greenberg would like us to believe that we are probably the parent of the Caucasian race. Smith disagrees and insist that we should be put in “Brown Race” basket. African American scholars and other handful scholars resent the Eurocentric view and interpretation of history and cultures and dismiss the idea that ancient Egyptian are Greeks. They all claim that they arrived their conclusion through scientific investigation. This thing is very subjective and a tool to justify a preconceived notion. I’m still convinced that Somalis are Africans and they look the way they look because proximity of Asians and their trade interactions resulted interracial marriages…the same thing our forefathers kept telling us. Let them dig graves and do measurements just don’t listen Anthropologists and their crap!

That piece was brilliant…hats off to u. Let me comment on the Identity issue if I may. Do the Somalis have Identity crisis? No we don’t have identity crisis. Are we pure Africans by race? By geography yes but by race we are not pure Africans. Our genes is mixed with some other Asian race. Should we call ourselves Africans? Absolutely! Do we have to please others or worry about what they will think of us if we say out loud that we are probably a mix of two races? Hell no! We are located on a point where races, Africans, and Asian intermingle. Same can be said Nubian, Berbers, Cushitic, Hematic and Semitic speaking ethnic groups of East and North Africa. One to be bold like that as I am is to risk a whole lot of criticism and bashing not because I’m wrong but perhaps I’m politically incorrect. Do we have history of our own or view of our own on this subject? Yes…it is not a written one nor does it have volumes of books or distinguished authors that we can refer to. Ours is distinctively different than other civilization that happen to have written language. It is called oral history. Our forefathers left us a body of information, through oral history, about this subject and our physical appearance validates their assertion. No one can sidestep what they had to say about who they are. Theirs is not a myth but history as they come to know it. By definition, oral history is a method of gathering and preserving historical information through recorded interviews with participants in past events and ways of life. It is the oldest type of historical inquiry, predating the written word. What about science? After all, this can be settled very easily if we put our faith in science? Why not! It turns out that geneticists insist that your genes (as Negro) may have more in common with the genes of a Norwegian (White) than with other non-relative fellow Negro. They say even gene taken from mitochondria would not help because it takes humans to one single mother. Where do I got all this information? I got from a program aired on the PBS’s Nova. It is called ‘Race’. I must admit that my knowledge of the subject (genetics) is basic. Corrections are appreciated. I am Somali, a Negro…I will say that in casual conversations. But the minute someone brings Anthropology into the conversation and uses that as scientific evidence to tell me who Somalis are and where they originated I would challenge her/him. I took Anthropology in school… it is systematic, disciplined course as any other course but there is nothing scientific about it. It starts great Apes and it links that great Ape with origin, culture, and development of humans. It is a crap! Throughout the course we were measuring Anthropoids’ skeletons and they were telling us that we are probably holding the exact replica of the bones of our relatives…so much of education…I want that money back.

Mucawisweyne, Everyone starts somewhere if there are sisters who imitate Badu, they will come around...but Badu style is one step closer to Hijab...that's fine...with good guidence and encouragment and hopefully well-intentioned preaching, they may turn around and finally embrace the real xijaab. If my sister quits wearing her shorts in the summer and puts on Nigerian dress...that will cover some more flesh, i'm sure, and she won't get any credit from Allah...but if I want her to see benefits of Hijab and wisdom behind it...I wouldn't humiliate her...instead I would advice her, tell her things one step at a time, gently,..after all she is muslim and that seed in her would grow with right approach. The qoute below is from this site http://www.soundvision.com/Info/news/hijab/hjb.nonhijabi.asp it focuses how we should do our preaching. It had been ten years since she had set foot in a mosque. Being at university had broadened her mind in many ways, one of them being her reconnecting with Islam. She had begun praying five times a day a month ago, and now felt ready to pray in public, at the university's Juma prayer. She paused and stood a few feet away from the women's entrance. Taking a deep breath, she pulled the silk scarf out of her purse and tied it carefully on her head. Her ponytail stuck out a bit. She smoothed the creases on her long-sleeved beige shirt and tugged at the bottom of it to make it longer over her pants. The prayer was great. She had never felt this sense of inner peace. Afterwards, she tried mingling with the sisters, but nobody even looked her way. A few of them even pretended not to hear her greeting. The only sister who did talk to her said in a huff: “You know your prayer is not accepted in those pants and that tiny thing you pass for a Hijab. I suggest you get more Islamic knowledge and dress properly before coming back here.” The words stung her like a million bumble bees. Too numb to respond or speak, she charged out of the hall. Never again would she associate with these people, she told herself. And never again would she return to Juma. ******************* Are you shocked reading about this incident? Don't be. It has been a reality in almost every Muslim community in North America. This harsh judgment and intolerance shown towards Muslim women who do not wear Hijab can lead to at least some Muslim women to become alienated from the Muslim community, and could lead to a loss of Islamic practice. While Hijab is an obligation clearly ordained in the Quran and Sunnah, the above-mentioned method of its enforcement and encouragement is not Islamic, according to Muslim scholars, researchers and activists. Muslims have to start seeing the issue from a different perspective, they say..

Edward Said and Bernard Lewis would be good read. Especially Edward Said who is an Arab-American with impressive academic credentials...he is the author of 'Orientalism' or 'Al-mustashraqiin'. They both talked about clash of civilisation that Huntigton alluded to. The other day, about 3 wks ago, I've seen an interview with Bernard Lewis on C-SPAN. He put to rest all my baises about him...he came across as very learned and rational person. He said this about democracy and westren governance and their 'crusade' to propogate their values across the world especially Islamic world: He siad, and I'm parapharsing him , Islamist beleive that the notion of separation of church and state is a christian cure for christian desease. There are links that u may find his articles..that is Edaward Said. www.antiwar.com go to viewpoint section his last post was i gues feb or march www.harpers.org He has a long article attacking Hungtinton and Bernard Lewis that raised concerns at the time about his agenda. here it is http://www.harpers.org/online/impossible_histories/impossible_histories.php3?pg=1 this is must read article. check this one too www.utoronto.ca/csus/pm/key.htm

LANDER, To exchange views is what the forum is all about. I’m with pro-unity crowd and would not mind to see the merits of the case of the pro-secessionists. So far self-determination point appeals to me. But self determination will bring about different results for Northerners. They have different things in mind. There is a case for unity. I can make that case with ease. The trouble is your mind is made up and it is evident that no matter how sound and factual my argument is…you won’t be persuaded. One can play catch 22 or hide their head in the sand or accuse others predilection. All of that won’t make their one-sided assertions right. I tried to put myself in the pro-secessionists’ shoes and I had found many things that we have in common. For instance, I wholeheartedly agreed that, as things stand, it is very difficult to open dialogue with regions that are waging civil war against each other…peace must be achieved first. I also agreed that past mistakes should not be repeated but we should learn from them. But I don’t buy these premises (three below) unless someone points me new facts (there may be many) that I don’t know: 1. Somaliland, the British colony, wants to secede. 2. Grievances and colonial legacy are not what driving them to secede. 3. Balkanization of the Horn of Africa is good for the region. First one, If the Somaliland that you are referring to is included Sool, East Sanaag, Buuhoodle. Then that is utter lie. Facts on the ground and daily news bulletins prove otherwise. Second one, I say grievances because the tragic events in Hargeysa and elsewhere in the region perpetrated by the National Somali Army weaken our confidence in central government; and colonial legacy because that is the best card that may legitimize Somaliland borders and lend credence to their claim. If there are other justifications beside these two I would like to know them. Third one, by advocating secession you are also balkanizing the region. The notion that citizens wronged by their governments can take things into their hands and form a country by seceding is very radical. The prevailing idea is to change the tyrannical regimes and if you succeed one should form in its place a just, inclusive government that is reflective the nation and its interest groups. By seceding, if that is successful, would inherently create a border problems…seceding republic would ally adversaries of Somalia to defend its newly created borders. It should be noted that neither part can nullify the ‘Union Act’ of 1960. To be legal both “Somaliland” not part of Somaliland, as now is the case and Somalia should sit down and renegotiate the terms. Anything less than that would amount provocation by self-declared state of a segment of “Somaliland” to a future Somali state. It is ironic that Ethiopia and Britain affirm the territorial integrity of Somalia in all international forums in which this subject come up, forums such as AU, EU, and UN. I don’t know why that is the case but that should be food for thought for all of us.

I would say: better off. Especially in areas of Health Care and Education, and Entreprenuership. There are side effects but positive outweighs that.

I thank u sujui-1 for posting this article. I found it quite enlightening...her is a qoute from that article; Does this mean that Islamic traditions necessarily prescribe maintaining the status quo in the Islamic societies that exist today? The answer is a definite "No." Many thinking Muslims - both men and women - would agree that their societies do not fulfill the Islamic ideals and traditions laid down in the Quran and reinforced by the example and directives of the Prophet Muhammad, salallahu alehi wasallam. It is reported in the Quran and from history that women not only expressed their opinions freely in the Prophet's presence but also argued and participated in serious discussions with the Prophet himself and with other Muslim leaders of the time (58:1). Muslim women are known to have even stood in opposition to certain caliphs, who later accepted the sound arguments of those women.

Najmo, My take on this is very simple as opposed to the academic or philosophical interpretation of the subject. Religion, as expected talks about ‘higher level’ love. Religion and philosophy aside, this word ‘Love’ is a word used so often in so many different context…for that reason...it is not surprising if we don’t agree how it’s defined. Now excluding religion and philosophy, I’m equipped to make a bold and provocative assertion: That is Love is a blend of feelings, strong feelings, deep affection, and burning desire, toward someone. Paternal love has to do with preprogrammed genes coupled with religious or societal obligations and expectations. But love between opposite sex has to do with strong feelings, deep affection, desire or yearning to be together…that is if it is mutual…often that is not the case. Sometimes one side of the equation has more feelings toward the other while other may be indifferent the predicament of the partner-to-be. One may, for instance, be unable to get over with lover that is beyond one’s reach…or rejected one. What do we make of that? I argue it is still a love but a one that doesn’t have a partner to reciprocate her/his feelings toward one. Infatuation, lust, and host of other feelings enter sometimes in the love equation at some point in different degrees…but that doesn’t negate the overriding desire and devotion. Some say Love is state of mind. It may be, but I have hard time of separating state of mind and feelings. Poor Cilmi was in love with Hodan but his love had to deal with a culture and society that values ‘Calaf’ and ‘Qadar’…when his yearning for Hodan persisted he was condemned by all. The prevailing view was, and rightly so, if the ‘Calaf’ is not your side…you should move on and you should not have slightest infatuation with married women period. Above all his object of love, Hodan, never had a say to whom she wants to be with. Now that is tragic…call it whatever u want irrational or what not…but all these adjectives you are using is for the noun: ‘Love’.

The US is working on how to put the genie back in bottle! They knew that all along..so they claimed. My hunch is they will be taken care of one way or another. The west is devil reincarnation I don't know how they do things but they proved me wrong so many times...they have a way of having drawn plan B. Neo-cons are nuts they are talking about bombing the facilities. Will see! onething is clear though the genie has to go back in the bottle...or Japan and South Korea are compelled to have theirs which they are capable of...and gives Chine a headache.

Xassan, gediid is not only telling nomads what to do, he is also exercising a veto...and he is putting conditions as what the terms are in order for nomads in that area to decide their destiny. Man! Gediid you are misled brother..you don't have a clue...do you? Whether nomads there choose Abdullahi or any other dictator is not your concern...your concern is where should we draw the line in Ceerigaabo...without any violence? If recognition is granted that issue will come up...in the meantime we would leave peace in our respective enclaves and places we share...and perhaps politicians will wage their propaganda war for your likes to consume...that dose of reality should sink in.

Cawo, I'm not contradicting myself...it may be that we are making different assumptions here..or perhaps we don't agree the definition of Love. To me love is a blend of feelings toward someone. That feeling might be a deep affection or it could manifest in strong fondness or enthusiasm. I have my own view on this…and by any means I’m not pretending to know the universal definition of Love. Cilmi, the legend has it, had seen Hodan several times. His first impression of her was so deep that he used to wait all day long for her to buy bread from him…BTW he was a bread seller and she was his customer. His feeling was not a secret from her but her aunt didn’t wanted her niece to do anything with this guy. She marry her off to another nomad. It was prearranged marriage. He never lost hope and deep down he believed that the affair was a forbidden love. I think I said he was a delusional guy…not because he was nuts but because he had engaged in a forbidden Love with no partner. As a result he lost his ‘miyir’. I wanna share his pain with the nomads..here is another poem: Soomaalida caado xune iguma caydeene Oo ima canaanateen sidaan cuud ka iibsadaye Kuwii ii calaacalayey baan camal tusaalayne Sida weelka caanaha hadii laabta loo culayo Bal aan soo cidaadee maxaa cunaha dhaafaaya Curuuqdiyo maxa kale dhex geli cadaha hoostooda Ma cidaamkanaan jabinayaa cunaya dhuuxooda Inaanse cadaydo mooyee waxaan calalsho lay diidye Caqliga yaa ka biin tuu Illaah ku cir-cadeeyey Cimrigayga oon jirin intii lagu cirroobaayey Mugga inaan caddaadaan ka biqi canab daraadede Cududuhu ma naaxaan qofkay talo ku ciirtaaye Casharkay wadaadu qoreen cudurkan goyn waaye Cilmi iyo daawaba doontay oo waayey cilinkiiye Jeeroonse canabeey ku helo caafimaad dhimaye Inaan caad noqdaa baa ka roon caawa saan ahaye Illayn caashaq lama maydhi karo kugu cirrooloobay

It was pure love without partner...I don't know what causes his untimely death but, according to his own poems, he was delusional no question about that...sometimes he would claim he had heard voices...classical delusion symptoms. Here is an example of his delusional dreams: Sida ubadku hooyada u tabo kuu hafeeftamaye Haddii aanan ku lahayn yartaay kuma haleeleene Habeenkii yimaadaba lix jeer kuma horjoogeene Hal abuurka kuumaan tirsheen heeska caashaqa e Bal hor joogsi daayoo anaan haynin aragaaga Hareertayda ood joogtid baan ku hami qaataaye Markaasaan humaagiyo cidlada ku hambalyeystaaye Hilinkaynu maridoono iyo hooy ku taamaaye Hagaageena iyo khayr ayaan ku hindisoodaaye If u think he was crazy...u are not the first one who said that...pray your lover won't reject u or his/her gaurdian will not make it impossible the relasionship to advance...his answer to u: Markaan keligeey haasaawayeen aan isla-hadlaayo Ayagoon wax hubinoo ogeyn waxa i heeteeyey Dadku waxay u haystaan inaan dhigay hugaygiiye Hadaaqa ay wax sheeg-sheegayaan uma haboonayne Haabkooda may gelin cishqiga hawsha dabataale Inta uu hadhuuudh-laha ku daray ama hed soo gooyey Hal-hal tirada waan lagu heleyn tan iyo haabiile He was a gifted Poet who broke the love taboo in nomadland.

I noticed the way the words of arguments are structured is to make it impossible to question whether what we are being told about “Somaliland’ is really true…or the legitimacy of its claim of secession. Those of us who questioned “Somaliland” were accused of jealousy, envy, and what not…or we heard such responses like’ we don’t want u …can’t u read my lips’. We are just exchanging our views on this issue and perhaps how we justify these views…after all this is a forum. Hadde lama diririn. If I hear Lander correctly, I heard classical secessionist argument…I swear it amounts to tautology and at times logical fallacy. It goes like this: a) Nomads never had unifying political representation before 1960. True statement. b) We, Somalilanders as independent state, with our own will, decided to unite with the South Somalia. Again true statement…if we define Somalilanders as entity represented by two political parties USP (Sool, Buuhoodle, Part of Sanaag, and Awdal) and SNL (W/Galbeed, Togdheer, and part of Sanaag)…and with their signature the ‘Act of Union’ is sealed indefinitely. c) With the collapse of the central state and resulted anarchy, Nomads are back to square one. questionable statement in the legal sense…fall of a government doesn’t absolve its previous borders…To constitute new ones without the consent of all parties involved will be against all known international rules. Now if we take that as unquestionable historical facts, secessionist logic doesn’t hold water…Nomads being back to square one would not adhere or recognize to any colonial borders. Every tribe would own up its area of influence and without their consent any new claim would amount nothing less of coercion. Even if we presume wrongly that the rest of Somalia is irrelevant to the question of secession, North is very relevant. Unless u assume you hold a veto to the wishes of other parties, you can only decide for your neck of the wood. Remember that What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander. Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying let’s unite now as that is very difficult to do now anyway. What I’m saying is that what’s at work is propaganda to energize the people of that region to a cause that is very difficult to achieve and perhaps dangerous. It is a balkanization of the horn of Africa. And as Hitler and every other politician after him realized propaganda works: If you tell a lie long enough and loud enough people will believe it. Gediid, No u are not respecting the wishes of regions u mentioned. They decide for themselves...Puntland is their destiny untill central state comes to being.

^Clear case you presented there...with civility but it didn't persuade me . However, it made me understand why u feel the way you feel. I hope that this follow up won't annoy you . Case: According to International rules ethnic/tribe can not secede...just heck of it or because they can. Grievences and colonial legacies are (can not and should not)not to be used as grounds for secession. Even if you can not refrain from using that it is better to bring all parties that involved (according the claim) on the table; and as things stand that is not the case. Running from Somalia and its problems is not a solution but a denial. One should be couragous enough to face problems rationally and deal with it. According to your logic, Boorame should not forgive what had happened to its people, instead it should secede and call itself Awdal Republic. Forgive but not forget just as Rwandese (Tutsi) did when they become victorious in that civil war..one million casualty on their belt...Tutsi embrace their comrades and said let's work this out and make sure it will never happen again. No unity now...keep progressing and maintaining peace. No one wants to take that away. No rush. Just affirm that territorial integrity of our nation. You can be for peace and progress without nullifying the unity. "Somaliland' is not independent as we speak, atleast no more than Puntland, and yet that doesn't inhibit progress and certaily doesn't take away its peace. How about that

Lefty, that's very nice of u..it is very informative. Shyhem, What do u guys know about life,if u haven't experienced Malaria fever,the person next to u is having typhoid and Tb and the dr says the next package of medicine won't arrive; until two weeks from now, coz the local murram road is flooded by the heavy rains last night, and as we speak right now we ain't got no medicine at all,not even pain killers. If u go through that shi-t, been sick in America seems a luxury to me,atleast u have a tv and a telephone in u'r room,did i say "u'r own room" coz i where i came from we call that a 'ward" sixty million of u in the same room crying for the dr's attention.

I guess the question is: "Has the devil been successful at his scheme? You be the judge! Yes he has.

Kings can pull this one off...C-Webb injury is a concern. Mavs and Wolves are real contenders. Lakers are unpredictable but hold ur breath cuz Wolves showed some guts last night..man! they were imperessive. I'm rooting for the little man in Philly...despite the odds..I'm real fan of Iverson.

I think his remarks is aimed to the diplomatic core who happen to be hard core liberals...they have different agenda for middle east than the one neo-con's would like to implement...that's where the fight is...not Powell at all.

This is about North...if by Somaliland u meant the former British colony...then there is no entity that encompasses all former regions in that colony. This term 'Somaliland' is misleading term. Now that clans in Waqooyi Galbeed, Togdheer, and west Sanaag can seek a recognition of their clan state. Or they can cry wolf and muddy the waters. Remember there is no anarchy in Sool, Sanaag, and part of Togdheer aka Buuhoodle. These regions have nothing to do with secession. For a moment, leave the South out of the North's problem and come to grip the fact that so called Somaliland is divided on the question of secession.

Iyadana wadeecada aduun wiil kalaw baxaye Wadaamii qalbiga waxa la tegey wililigteediye Intay waaninaysan dhulbaan weel ka gurayaaye Waa lay warramayaa dadbaan weeye leeyahaye Waxakani wareer iyo ka badan caashaq waaxidahe Walaalooyinoow waxan ka biqi inan ku waashaaye Markan inan wareegaan damcoo webiga jiidhaaye Wiirada ragiyo baan ka tegi wadhida naagaaye Wadankeeda Soomaali waan sii wadacayaaye Wuxu Eebahay ii waciyo waadanbe an dhawro With that I say, the guy had mentally broken down and couldn't take the reality. His bride never rejected him. So he had always blamed 'others' for not letting her decide for herself. When he realized (he knew all along but it downed on him finally) that she had kids with another man...he totaly lost his 'miyir'..and become delusional.

Abdullahi or Abdiqasim? Is that what it comes down to? I think not. The choice between the two is the choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. One is getting support from Arabs, the other is getting support from Ethiopia...that support has being used to divide clans and buy out favors from 'politicians'...both want to be the president of the raped, looted, ravaged country. Both believe negative tribalism and so far it worked for them. The word 'compromise' is nowhere to be found in their book. They have enough loyal supporters who are willing to die for them. Every thing they do , I mean everything, is justified..atleast in the negative tribalism doctrine. To them power is an 'end' by itself. Abdullahi Yusuf's book...the words 'noble' or 'gob' and the word 'ignoble' or 'gun' are highlited...he sees nomad world through these lens. Your resume must have genealogy tree so it will be easy for him to make decisions...objections particularly political objections is very annoying to him...he come up a solution...eliminate them. His wrestled with Barre about the same issue 'power'...and he will never give up...it has to be his by any means necessery. Abdiqasim's book is full of grievences. He is very vindictive...he had seen what is like to be 'irrelevent'...in his 21 yrs of ministerial position with Barre regime. He often qoutes Khaliif Sh. Mohamud's poem. Maankaba ka jare raginimaad meel ka soo galiye Maaraha Siyad ba ka dhigey maata caano leh e. He doesn't want his clan to be dominated again ever! Government must be dominated by your clan or you will be dominated by another clan...that's his world view. Now I understand that, as they say here, all politics are local. You may have your own reasons to favor one over other...you might have suffered at the hands of one of them or you don't judge them for their deeds but u look from the 'lesser evil' line of reasoning prespective. Whatever is your justification..just pray that it doesn't come down to that oval choice.

"Because he also told me he was an atheist. Mom, he doesn't even believe there's a hell." Her mother replied, "Marry him anyway. Between the two of us, we'll show him how wrong he is." and hell..they will show him. Waaba bilcaamo hakuu tashadaan .

There is a new term in the west: 'Quality time' means enough time with one's own children. Women are the ones who coined the term. They want to stay home with their kids. They are winning if u consider legislation such as family leave, sick leave, and what not. I work with a lady who is pregnant...she is having a 'morning sick'...she exhausted all her vacation time and she doesn't wanna use the sick time yet for she is saving the delivery time. She said to me that the only chance to end this is to win the Jackpot . Hibo..I enumarated ^^ to make the point that whenever one social problem is corrected another one has risen...remember feminism/sexual liberation...the fight now is sexual abstention among students. Men and women are equal before Allah...they are different in many ways. Physically, men are stronger than women. Women are kinder than men. Women are more emotional than men. Smart woman completes, not compete with, her husband...and vice versa. What have not changed, as londan_lad said, are the rights and responsibilities Allah has given to both sexes. In Islam they are protected..but too often cultures in Islamic states deviate from that true bath...our nomadic culture is an example. More women get educated the better they see that today they are used as sexual objects..just look the advertisement...naked, young, pretty, women is flashing her private parts to sell gum..what u make of that? Men are the ones who pouring the fuel to the fire...every time they see it they buy more gum

The old maxim: one's freedom fighter is another's terrorist is true in our case. Grinov, Bachelor, In any forum, u would expect its members would encourage civil discussion, difference of opinion, respectful debate, etc...I find that some of us are not only insisting the discussion of a topic such as this one to be civil...but they also want to be banned or deleted. Even if it meets all the criteria Admin. put forth...it seems that some nomads disdain Somali politics... Name calling, character assassination, and lies are to be condenmed and prevented to appear on this site...Admin.'s generosity, staff's time and effort should be appreciated and site rules should be followed. That I understand. To those who disdain Somali politics...I say don't. This site give us opportunity to learn and understand why some nomads argue the way they argue, how they justify their views. On different angle, As a nomads we have a problems, politics is one of them. To resign and wish it to disappear is a sign of a deep denial of reality. Let is communicate and learn from each other...also let's have little thick skin..it helps! I think we did and can handle heated debates like this. One more thing! There is an old expression in English language. It goes like this: 'A distinction without a difference'...is regarded as foolish...the expression affirms the fact that 'distinction' is supposed to embody a difference; when it amounts the same thing, it is a point hardly worth making. I find it neccessary to get that off my chest