S_Nomad, Sami, and Libaax I answered all of them in my last post. Didn't I? It is on the 3rd page. Perhaps not to the satisfaction of the S_Nomad who seems to expect answers that confirm his view on these questions.

Who knows? Good guess would be whoever Ethiopia and West backs. There will be no vote. We should be willing to put up anyone who can deliver the peace. The lesser of the two evils principle can be applied to this dilemma.

I should start I guess. No! I dare to say. Greater Somalia was not a failure. The leadership was a failure. Yes! it is feasible goal. The culprits are weak due to their multi-ethnic constituents and lack of determination to hold on to what is ours…first we need to get our house in order. It will not be easy and we may not see its fruition in our lifetime. Because the internal conflict, any plan to help brothers has to take the back-seat at the moment. Why this preoccupation and why now you may ask. Injustices that were done to us time and again and how we were robbed in daylight by others is unacceptable. As early as 1954 Britain were given away land that belonged to us to Ethios…by one stroke of the pen…it shall be theirs…just like that! British justified that the Anglo-Ethiopian treaty obligated them to do that. Our grievances have been and remain to be: 1. That the treaties disregarded agreements made with the clans that had put them under British protection. 2. That the Somalis were not consulted on the terms of the treaties and in fact had not been informed of their existence. 3. That such treaties violated the self-determination principle. Naturally, there were nomads who were infuriated by these development and could not put up with that. They resisted, struggled, and risked their lives for liberty and self-determination. When they succeeded they wished the same liberty to other Somalis under the illegal occupation. They came up a policy called Pan-Somalism or Greater Somalia. Greater Somalia or Pan-Somalism was what shaped the character of freedom fighters and pro-independent movement (SYL, USP, SNL) who later became leaders of Somalia right after the independence. They insisted, new leaders with public support, that this policy be included the preamble to the constitution. It become the official policy of the government. The gist of that policy could be summarized (the info from ‘Somali country study’ …US library congress) in this way: 1. The new republic promotes by legal and peaceful means, the union of the territories. 2. All ethnic Somalis, no matter where they reside, are citizens of the republic. 3. The republic does not claim sovereignty over adjacent territories, but rather demands that Somalis living in them be granted the right of self-determination. 4. The republic would be satisfied only when their fellow Somalis outside the republic had the opportunity to decide for themselves what their status would be. So far Djibouti fulfilled the true Greater Somalia vision. The Djibouti compromise was acceptable due to Anfar, French, and Ethiopia campaign to undermine the independence of the region.

Is it better for a women to marry a man who loves her than a man she loves? In both cases the trust, desire to tie the knot are mutual.

1) Failed? Yes/No and why? 2) Is it feasible...that is if we recover from this current clamity? Yes/No and why?

Quite opposite. Every nomad is looking for a brainy chick. They make good mothers and hell of wife. Your chance to get by and succeed would increase two fold if you can get one. There are nomad ladies who find prospect of finding 'marriage material' very frustrating. That is very understandable given the hectic schedules we all have. Believe me no nomad I know would pass up a brainy queen. Educated with attitude...arrogance is what scares the sh*t out of them.

One book that stimulated me and added a whole new dimension to my understanding is: Darwin on Trail by Philip Johnson It takes on Westren educational system, the supreme court, and above anything else the 'Science'. It is relatively small book. It will help if you are fimiliar with few concept in science and philosophy/metaphysics. At the end of the book there is 'refutation correspondence' submitted by Yale guru Jay Gould, Futuyama, and other scientist. I also enjoyed Dale Carnegies' books...all of them. He talks about how to be friendly, motivated, humble, and to be a leader...it is non-fiction. Very useful books.

Shaqsii, there is neither written record nor oral account to confirm the two brothers account. However there is oral history that talks about this genealogy. The weird thing about this though is that each account(4 tribes) differs the other one and most of them trace their patriach back to an arab who is both noble and sheik. I say wierd because they don't seem to agree that they (tribes) are related...according the oral history. Given the homogeneity of language and tradition coupled with oral history, European anthropologist come up a plausible genealogical chart that groups them into the six clan formula. Good read would be 'Modern History of Somalia" by I. M. Lewis.

I will add that beauty matters more than intellect to many people...no question about that. Most folks have average IQ anyway...and few commit in a relationship due to high IQ. I for one would like to get hooked up with someone who has both. The trick is 'beauty' is very subjective term and that's why sociologist prefer to use 'quality'...and beauty is just one variable of whole gammut of qualities. Some would argue that beauty and intellect are not mutually exclusive qualities...that is to say brainy chick is a beautiful chick. Hmm! they may have a point.

That's how is supposed to be done...dialogue not fighting. I commend them the way they handled it. I hope other politicians to reach the same conclusion. We'll find a way insha'allah...keep you heads up nomads.

U r very creative and talented nomad. The plot, the characters, the drama, the hero, and the villian...the peice has all. But Darman I'm not sure about the moral of the story...there is an other one Keep them coming I really enjoyed this one.

Employees who do not take their S.H.I.T. will be placed in Departmental Employee Evaluation Programs (D.E.E.P. S.H.I.T.). Those who fail to take D.E.E.P. S.H.I.T. seriously will have to go to Employee Attitude Training (E.A.T. S.H.I.T.). Man! that got me so hard my co-workers had to see what make me We printed this as a memo with company logo in wich we demanded to see the manager's credentials...so we can determine it he needs DEEP SHIT. It is on the desk of our manager. Keep ur fingers crossed for us...he might have to force us to EAT SHIT.

Kheyr, Thanks for sharing that article. It is beautifull one. As Arnold Bennett said you will make more friends in a week by getting yourself interested in other people than you can in a year by trying to get other people interested in you.

Northerner, War bal mucjisadan! Obviously you have not read my take on the subject. In your last 2 posts you made crystal clear that anyone who challenges the secession and its political implication for Somalia has ignoble motives. I’m either out to “discredit” people in the area or I have “outright contempt” for the way they handle themselves in this trying time…that’s all you see in my posts. And when I pointed out your character assassination…you just come right back to it and added that I’m only assessing the way people perceived me! For the moment I have little option but to regard your allegations about me or my take on the subject as a proof that you may be prone to either an overactive imagination or poetic hallucinations!!! As to your questions (in bold) that you so eagerly wanted be answered …let’s cut to it. First the burden of proof is on the pro-secessionist. They have to show to Somalis and to international community why secession? why not embrace regional autonomy (if Somalia is way behind) just as Puntland did? You have 12 yrs that proves that the absence of recognition doesn’t inhibit peace and progress. Why/how/when Somalia can/will/may be re-united? (same as below) Why talk about re-unification with the state that Somalia is in at the moment? Because that is the goal and must be spelled out and articulated in a way that gives nomads a vision and a road map. It is true that Somalia is a mess. We are picking the pieces and we trying to put them back together(building block approach). It may take time but that is a goal worth sacrificing for. Mind you! no one is saying lets unite before we attain stability. We are rather trying to convince the pro-secessionists to abandon the secession. How do u think Somalia can rid it self of its problems? I don’t know. But one solution I exclude is balkanizing the country or dividing it into two. I think that’s counter-intuitive. How long do u think this will take? I don't know. My hunch is soon we’ll have some sort of government and hopefully it will be better than this anarchy. Do u expect Somaliland to wait? Yes. Part of it had already made that commitment. Why not wait united, inclusive, strong Somalia if you are willing to wait a recognition that’s not in sight. After all they both are dreams. If it does happen do u think we will welcome u with open arms? I don’t get it.

LANDER and Northerner, Was I surprised when you both accused me of predilection? I couldn’t help smiling to myself; it was all so predictable. This is one of these cases where no matter what you say about the subject you stand poised to be accused. LaANDER, what is this: “Your OWN presumed debate with me” thing and this “What is the point of responding your argument…” Go back page 2 on this thread and look yourself! I was commenting Majdi’s piece when you started addressing me. What do we make of your descent into outright arrogance? Northerner, Am I here to discredit the standing of SOMALIND people? And worse you are so sure of it because you know, you said, that is my sole purpose to the effect that people can see through me just as sun can be seen through window glass! Is opposition to the secession amounts to that? No wonder you readily applaud LANDER’s rabble-rousing tactics. These questions of yours are relevant ones and I’m willing to take them up in another place. Before I do that are these the same old questions you thought are repetitious? So you are willing to receive the same old answers. Or you all of sudden concluded that there are more questions on this subject that need to be answered. Very interesting! Ameenah, It is either we abandon all pretence to see this forum as open and free (provided we follow the rules) or we demand a certain minimum space to discuss, debate, argue, or even repeat ourselves if we wish. Granted there are folks who always resort tribal insinuations and fortunately moderators are here to warn them. Forums are not formal. In fact, one should expect all kind of characters to show up. Let others ‘argue’ to death as long as they want without your ‘yawns’ or sarcasm.

Rakim and Akhyaarta kale, I don't belittle nomads here nor I ridicule them. I think pro-secession nomads here have a case to present. They also have a cause. I'm just questioning the logic and rationale behind that cause. LANDER is unsuccessfully trying to make a case. So far he is making a case that reveals how injudicious that cause has become. Samygrrl is very honest and very passionate young lady and she really beleives in that cause. I respect all of them. If I have something to say I write a peice and if I don't have anything to contribute I stay away without stepping anybody's toe. Humility is a good virtue.

Northern and Ameenah, This is a forum...is it not? Why preach silence for selected topics. Or are you in the business of establishing a new moral imperative for this forum. Are debate, discussion, and argument interchangeble words? Notice you were part of these exhausting redundacies you seem to disdain now. Duality of some characters in this forum is getting apparent wallahi. No offence intended!

Wlc Somali Brother, Insha'allah we will save no effort to be part of the 'peace making' endeavor and we'll keep remembering our beautifull Nomadland.

Baashi no need to get emotional, instead you should try to keep track of your arguments. You say you agree with the building block approach that I suggested, but just what do you consider to be the building block? LANDER, Where or when did I get emotional if I may ask? You are one of a kind dude . Indeed one should keep track of what one had said before and if memory doesn’t fail me I don’t remember contradicting myself on this issue. I’ve always maintained that ‘United Somalia’ with just and inclusive government is a goal worth seeking. You don’t share with that vision. I always acknowledge the difficulties and obstacles (namely negative tribalism and mistrust in any government among the nomads) we have to overcome to attain that goal. You use these very obstacles and deficulties as justification, among many, to secede. I do not attribute our problems with remarkable and historical union of the two region; you do pal! The fault lies on the negative tribalism, wrong governance system, and corrupt regime who put animosity between the clans and monopolized power by excluding many clans in the power sharing scheme. I’ve applauded the peace and stability both Puntland and Somaliland have achieved and wished others to follow suit. Anarchy is anarchy! It is like sheet of glass shattered into pieces. It will be very difficult to manage it without the right leadership. One can make comparisons between stable areas and unstable ones and ridicule the predicament some of the regions find in themselves or draw conclusions on that basis and find one more arsenal to justify one’s intention. ‘Building blocks’ approach, coined by Puntland, is mechanism where regions can have complete autonomy until national government comes into being. That option 'regional autonomy' is there for pro-secessionist to use it. But that is not what you are talking about. Am I right? Let alone this difficult time even if you had to do it all over again Somalia, as we know it, would not have been formed. Now we are a failed state and with that comes the eminence of local decision making. Yet you refuse to taste your own medicine; the right to secede. This is how it tastes: this newly find liberty will be excersiced by all sides within former Somaliland border.

^^No one argued in favor of ‘top down’ approach that you are alluded to as a pro-unity position. And no! I never said unity comes before stability...i don't see the need from your side to distort my position. Yes there is strong support for ‘building block’ approach which is basically the ‘bottom up’ approach. Look pal! it is perfectly ok to advocate for either position. I’m sure that there is a case for pro-secessionist to make just as there is one for those who oppose them. It will be very interesting if you can make the best case for the secessionist. It may change our entire outlook if it is very convincing, compelling, and rational one. I’m very cautious optimist and pragmatist as well. 12 years and counting South seems to resign and accept the anarchy and Northwest fail to attain recognition. Both preach patience. To paraphrase Rousseau the question is, what to make of a physician, who promises miracles, and whose art consists entirely of exhorting his sick patients to practice patience?

Ina Abdulle Hassan! What a poet he was. Oh boy! this dervish could improvise a poem, upon recieving a news, and recite it with indoctrinazing dose of pride, patriotism, and move legions of young dervishs to resist and fight against one of the super powers at the time. He is best poet, in my book. His poems trascend romance, patriotism, nature, and politcs. His famous poem, Gudban iyo Gaalo leged, he declared his intentions in a poem: Godobteydu waa jidhaa goonyahoo idile Gashi nimaan ku leeyahey waa daba galaaye e Annigu waxaan goosan karo waan gurubsanaayaa. He was a leader and a fighter for greater cause but to tell history in its totality one cannot ignore his dictatorial style over his subjects and his unspeakable transgrasions against poor and unarmed nomads around his area of influence. my taano,

Shyhem, That piece of yours is very hilarious. You are lecturing (not sincerely of course) your beloved sisters to practice moderation in life and learn how to balance it all out...telling to keep their eyes on the biological clock. That’s not bad advice. And you conveyed all of it in a humorous manner. For that 2 thumps up On the other hand you need some fixing performed on you. You will divorce her if the ‘Cambuulo’ doesn’t taste right…what kind of man are you. I didn’t know that all these pretty, smart, young, strong, educated Somali ladies intimidate you like that. They are something aren’t they? For some reason, on the screen, you come across as womanizer, skirt chaser, Casanova kinda guy and all of the sudden you got frustrated by them…something is not clicking

Is Somalia a model? To Anarchist like Michael van Notten, the answer is yes. But the truth of the matter is the Somalia of today is a disaster...text book example of failed state. There are success stories in some parts of Somalia. These cities and regions who are succeeding are the ones, contrary of his assertion, who have imposed law and order, agreed on a constitutional framework, imposed security. The answer, in my humble opinion, is no.

If that news clip is authentic then I must say, as pro-unity nomad, Hadraawi is well positioned to advance this noble cause to a new level. Majdi, that is a very reasonable comment. The timing aspect of the re-unification is secondary concern. Technically Somalia of today is Somalia of yesterday; one country. Ending the secession drive and convincing pro-secessionist that this time we will get it right is the task at hand. More troubling concern is how you mediate warlords who have shown time and again their indifference to the plight of the nomads or the future of this poor country.

matkey, u wlc sxb...anytime. Waaq, pls let us know when u find his full name or the tirle of the book.