Indeed. We are very lucky. Alhamdulilahi ladii jacalanaa minal muslimiin.

Infatua.5an, Further more who cares if someone classifies u a ‘Hater’?? Unless u r a hater, it should concern u the fact that someone took an offence something that u have said or implied. It might be a misunderstanding from ones part. Inquiring what makes one go that far helps clarify the fuzzy thinking in ones mind. Again the post didn’t say whether I care…I’d just observed that some nomads resort name-calling as a part of their articulation to make a point. u shouldn't be living in this world for a mere human being's approval. U are drawing wrong inferences from that post. It is bit of a stretch to make such premature assumptions. Thanks for the advice anyway. ilahey le ka baq..words won't kill u Shukran for reminding us that. Allah aan ka wada baqno. Words! Do they kill?

Thanks shujui-1 and jazakallahu kheyra. I learned something from this post.

On friends There is no permanent friend, it has been said, nor there is permanent foe. This type of relationship, as many other relationships, has its ups and downs. And to maintain it, if one sees beneficial, one has to overlook trivial things, has to ignore the gossips, and in conflicts one has to give the benefit of the doubt to his friend. When things go wrong, as they sometimes will, true friends come the assistance of their comrades. We are relational creatures hence we need friends to socialize, to confide our secrets, to share our happy moments, to consult when we are hesitant, and to ease our pain when we are grieving. Our friends are the mirror image of ourselves hence they reflect our characters more than one way. We have a lot in common with them and we should reach deep down inside us if we can’t get along with them cuz one of us has changed. It might be you qof ka midebeynaya oo sida gabaldeyaha hadba doc u jeensanaya. Ee xaalkiisa lala wareerey. Unless u rule that out don’t blame ur dear friend. If that is the case swallow ur pride and go to ur friend, look in the eye and say “I’m really sorry I made mistake.” Can u do that? If u can u r a very humble fella…much respect to u. It is the ego that often gets the way. Beware arrogance and ego... Halkaa ka sii wada.

Walaal Nur, Adaabta ducada qodobka: 12. Markaad Sujuudsan tahay; Luqad kasta waad ku duceysan kartaa soo ma'aha? Annigoo sidaa qaba yaan arkey dad ka biya diidsan hadde wax ma sii weydiin laakiin waan yara shakiyey. Illaahey ha kaa abaal mariyo dacwada.

Waxgarad baa tanaasula. Kulmiye sharaf bey muteysteen.

Infatua.5an, I like jokes too and I do check the Jokes thread quite often. I’ve even become a fan of underdog’s posts. Now! Whether u r stressed, bored, or generally don’t like to engage the rational debates, u wouldn’t, I take it, label a hater the person who disagrees with u when, if by any chance, u do have discussion with some1 with different point of view. U don’t have to be impolite, judgmental, or mean person to make ur point. I’ve made an observation and wondered… That’s where I’m coming from sxb. U don’t have to agree.

Entrepreneur, What comes to my mind is a bright fellow, like Aristotle, who tries very hard to understand nature’s secrets and ends up dealing with abstractions. Intellectuals become synonymous with skeptics who find necessary not to believe anything that is inaccessible to human understanding. Deductive reasoning is their scripture – nothing escapes from it. As a Muslim I believe that anyone who subscribe to that idea will get lost into either circular reasoning or infinite regression. Halkaas baan ka taagnahey! I use it superficially as an English word but I don’t have a high regard to its bearers anymore. Think about it…Karl Marx, Darwin, and the company are the leading intellectuals in academia circles. I prefer Aristotle and Greek philosophers as they lived at the world’s infancy and hence lacked revelation. In any event, intellectuals are part of the upper echelons of the global elite. How do you become an intellectual? Sxb I’m not sure cognizant Muslim would want to become one. Are so called intellectuals more talented than the non-intellectuals? They r more logical and rational but not talented than average folk. What is the dividing line? talent, creativity, brains etc? Education? Here is the dividing line: the deep rooted belief that nothing is remote from senses and reason. Couple that with intellect, discipline, education, and burning desire to solve a problem with the understanding that revelations and God has nothing to do with it…then you have an intellectual. We, people of faith, would not have any problem with this criterion as the basis to reach the truth: “The guidance of God, the light of reason, and testimony of sense”. This wouldn’t contradict the Islamic creed. Have you ever seen one? Yes. A self-appointed one, a professor of political philosophy. Now! Scientist are different category (at least to me) as they are the ones who advance the human knowledge to conquer the nature.

Walaal Nur, Allaha kaa abaal mariyo dacwada aad noogu yeedheyso. Hadii Eebe idmo mar walba waan akhrin doonaa maqaaladaada. Ogow in dadaalkaaga xushmo iyo xiiso badan loo hayo. Mahad badan,

Shaqsii, I see where u coming from sxb. Entreprenuer, Right on! sxb. But don't u think Admin/Mod's r doing a hek of job in trying to moderate the forum. They can't make a judgement call based on the nicknames and flags nomads carry. That will be an overkill! Opinionated, Gediid, and Northerner, Friends I guess u misread me. I'm neither shocked nor offended by what's been written in these threads. I just made an observation on nomads and thier attitude toward the debates. MMA, good to see u back and wlc back sxb. Jawahir, I agree with u that nomads are different and hence have different interest and tastes. I find some of the topics trivial. You find them a pass-time material. Funny u mentioned communication...in scale of four, ur attitude toward politics is: Avoidance. Now here r the scale 1. Appreciation 2. Acceptance 3. Tolerance 4. Avoidence It has been observed that we communicate to our fellow human beings according to that scale. We appreciate what some of our friends have to say, we accept some of their views in our dealings with them, we tolerate others whenever we engage them in discussions, and we completely avoid debating particular issues with them. In any event, there is no excuse for one to be mean and impolite.

Gediid, Heheheeeee "Dittore or Engineere" that they do...no doubt. I've witnessed an incident where a new employee was unable to perform his task...we were called to calm down the situation. This Somali guy claimed on his resume (he cooked his resume btw) that he is an expert on a printing 'press' machine. When I asked him how come he does not have a clue how to operate the damn machine. He replied waar annigu kuwan aqaaneey Germany baa lagu sameeyey. Back to ur post...I got the info I posted from this site http://memory.loc.gov/frd/cs/sotoc.html in 'problems of national integration' chabter the fourth paragraph. If u have any thing to refute about that then have ur quarrel with the authors of that book. Dissatisfaction at the distribution of power among the clanfamilies and between the two regions boiled over in December 1961, when a group of British-trained junior army officers in the north rebelled in reaction to the posting of higher ranking southern officers (who had been trained by the Italians for police duties) to command their units. The ringleaders urged a separation of north and south. Northern noncommissioned officers arrested the rebels, but discontent in the north persisted. Maxaanse qarsaneyey oo aan is ku qarxiyey?

Online forums and discussion boards such as Somaliaonline are expected to facilitate dialogue and serve as a medium where the difference of opinion and divergent views are encouraged and welcomed. Most often, in the case of SOL, diligent editors invest time and effort to meet that expectation. For some earthily reason unknown to me some of the nomads are mean, impolite, too sentimental, judgmental, and in most cases are obsessed with and appealed to extremely trivial topics. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for the ‘freedom of expression’. I do understand that all sorts of characters are bound to congregate in these free forums for different reasons especially when armed with anonymity. That is not why I’m posting this piece. I have always wondered why is it that quite sizable numbers of nomads tend to proclaim anathema on nomad(s) with opposing views than theirs? Is it because we conform to the majority view of our locality, clan, or what have you? Or some other force is at work here? In matters of larger concern such as politics or the other matters that is projected to the field of our notice and interest, I noticed, some nomads are too quick to formulate a position without rational excuse for having an opinion about the matter at all. Some of the nomads in this forum are even vindictive especially when their premises are challenged or eloquently refuted. Some are so arrogant that they won’t miss a chance to humiliate their fellow nomads. I studied these interesting questions to the bottom and come out empty! Having said that, I’ve concluded that we are not that different than other forumers but we (most of us) think with our clans, not independently; we relate the sympathies of our clans, but not that of other side; we arrive at convictions, but they are drawn from partial view of the matter at hand...if I can mimic the Mark Twain's take on 'conformity'. Those are my observations on nomads/aliens in this forum. Now! What is ur take on my conclusion?

Angel_dust said " TWO MORE NOTES, BAASHI ARE YOU CONTESTING THAT SOMALILANDER/NORTHERNERS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST EDUCATED, LITERATE AND BY FAR THE WEALTHEST OF THE FORMER SOMALIA??? AS A GROWN MAN, I THINK IT IS UNFITTING TO EVEN INSINUATE OTHERWISE. No. Mansha'allah allaha u siyaadiyo. I haven't done a head count but I have to concede to u that I've seen many educated folks from that region. Northerner, bro u missed the point. I'm not defending the nepotism and other misdeeds practiced by the successive former administrations...right up to the military junta. I was refuting one point in Cilmi's long article and that is the ex-officers who attempted the coup...the reason was a southern officer was posted as thier boss cuz he had academic credentials while the Northern replaced had none other than experience. That is the specifics of that event...now prove me wrong! In general the South had had more opportunities than North whether that is economic, political, etc. BTW U qoute me as if it was mine...it was a qoute. Look we are obviously in disagreement on the issue of secession. The problem here is the pro-secessionist camp kept bringing forth premises they can't back up...in our faces! And when challenged or refuted they make it personal or accuse others hate, jealousy, etc. Their only challenge is get urs in order! meaning solve all the problems the rest of Somalia have...as if we r the decision makers sitting in a formal meeting representing 2 camps. BTW the North West had its disputes. We r not in a position to alter or change the facts on the ground. We are only commentators looking in from outside. This is just a forum nothing more than that. The only thing is that u r finding out that any premise colored by emotion rather than reason or realism will be challenged and refuted in SOL forum.

Gediid, Odayaasha do agree with that qoute. Those who think I fabricated this, check it for urself http://memory.loc.gov/frd/cs/sotoc.html then go to Consolidation of colonial rule. Or simply try to name one single project of regional importance that Britain carried out during its unjust rule. The only thing I can think of is Sheikh and Boorame schools. I could be wrong but help me out here. I was refuting the assertion that ex-Northern officers were marginalized because they were from North or they were unhappy cuz of unity. I say they were unhappy cuz South dominated the political discourse. The reason being that the 67% of population resided there; South had an opportunity to develop civil institutions during the 10 yrs of self-rule under UN trusteeship; and it had better infrastructure than the North. BTW don't start a debate and expect everyone will agree with ur premise. And plz don't take it personal it is just a forum.

Somali women's role is limited as there is no positive environment to be active except few regions. Even these regions they don't have prominant role. That can be changed. You will have a bright future. Not in the government that will supposedly reward the warlords but in the civil movement. I say that not because u r a woman but this coming government is conceived in the premise of that tribalism is the bases of Somali polity. Every and each tribe has a quota. Your tribe’s quota will be contested by # of subclans. Your chance depends on how numerous your subclan is and how economically better off they happen to be. It is a disgrace. Instead of taking part of this immoral arrangement a better role would be to be part of a movement that is resolved to expose the corruption, nepotism, etc. There will always be a room for improvement in all sectors of the future Somali politics. Advocating for equality, giving voice for the voiceless, setting up watchdog institution that checks the government itself, etc. If u have talent you will be appreciated in Somalia. Keep up ur education u r needed there.

Originally posted by Cilmi: Originally posted by Cilmi: Somaliland gained independence on June 26th, 1960 and joined the ill-fated union with the Italian Trusteeship Somalia on July 1, 1960, to form the Somali Republic. After official unification with Somalia a new provisional constitution was adopted with a parliamentary system of government, comprised of non-executive President elected by the parliament who then nominated a prime minister. The prime minister appointed a cabinet from leading parliamentary party, subject to the approval of the President and the parliament. A third organ of the state was the judiciary, with five Supreme Court judges appointed by the President. The new government was immediately confronted with the major challenge of consolidating the unification, through administrative integration and the harmonization of the socio-economic development of the tow different regions with their dual colonial heritage. This included different British and Italian systems of education, administration, security services, pay rates and legal systems. There were no agreed power sharing arrangements to facilitate amalgamation of the two states. :eek: Huge differences appeared hence cracks of unity, but since the President was from the Italian somalia, the ex-British Somalilander's were marginalised, thus creating huge misgivinigs. This political discontent felt by the ex-British Somalilander's found expression in June 20th, 1961 when the majority of the its people voted against a unitary constitution. This was soon followed by a failed coup attempt by a group of disgruntled officers from ex-British Somaliland in December the same year. Well done. It doesn't hurt to look the other side of the coin. Here is quote from Somalia country profile by the US library of congress. Don't u shed crocodile tears of being hated because of the progress and stability. We commend that and hope others to follow suit. This is a refutation. One that is based on facts. It spells out why ex-somaliland officers were unhappy. [0B]The two decades between 1900 and 1920 were a period of colonial consolidation. However, of the colonial powers that had divided the Somalis, only Italy developed a comprehensive administrative plan for its colony. The Italians intended to plant a colony of settlers and commercial entrepreneurs in the region between the Shabeelle and Jubba rivers in southern Somalia. The motivation was threefold: to "relieve population pressure at home," to offer the "civilizing Roman mission" to the Somalis, and to increase Italian prestige through overseas colonization. Initiated by Governor Carletti (1906-10), Italy's colonial program received further impetus by the introduction of fascist ideology and economic planning in the 1920s, particularly during the administration of Governor Cesare Maria de Vecchi de Val Cismon. Large-scale development projects were launched, including a system of plantations on which citrus fruits, primarily bananas, and sugarcane, were grown. Sugarcane fields in Giohar and numerous banana plantations around the town of Jannaale on the Shabeelle River, and at the southern mouth of the Jubba River near Chisimayu, helped transform southern Somalia's economy. In contrast to the Italian colony, British Somaliland stayed a neglected backwater. Daunted by the diversion of substantial development funds to the suppression of the dervish insurrection and by the "wild" character of the anarchic Somali pastoralists, Britain used its colony as little more than a supplier of meat products to Aden. This policy had a tragic effect on the future unity and stability of independent Somalia. When the two former colonies merged to form the Somali Republic in 1960, the north lagged far behind the south in economic infrastructure and skilled labor. As a result, southerners gradually came to dominate the new state's economic and political life--a hegemony that bred a sense of betrayal and bitterness among northerners.[/OB] BTW Italy literally enslaved Somalis in the river valleys. European powers intended to exploit us...they did and finally we struggled and won our freedom. That is the end of it period. Don't justify your cause with a premise upon which is based on colonial nostalgia or as you put it ‘heritage’. Tell us something other than colonial legacy and the grievances we all have the government and the leadership that we got rid off long time ago (u r not blaming the victims of that regime! Are u?). Self-determination is better arsenal to justify secession but again that will open the door for the Hausa and Fullani of Nigeria; Oromia of Ethiopia (not to mention the Kurds in Turkey, Iran, and more importantly Iraq); and a host of other ethnic groups in Africa. No African country dares to even contemplate such a preposition. It is just not politically feasible. South Africa and Rwanda are not talking about division and separation of racial and ethnic groups despite what they went through. You know why? Because the facts on the ground have changed and they moved on. Bro if we are going to look back what went wrong we can start zeroing in the effect of Tribalism, nepotism, and flawed system. Ayoub, There is difference between USA and Clinton administration. Likewise there is difference between Somalia Republic and M. S. Barre regime. While we all believe Barre regime was a disgrace, we still think Somalia republic as a nation is not at fault but as a victim of bad leadership.

Caleykuma Salaam, Entreprenuer, my hunch is before we get into healing wounds, we need to cease all the hostilities between the concerned parties. You see occupation of valuable real state in Mogadishu, Kismaio and the river valleys continues and far too little is being done about it. I say unless all these injustices are addressed and some sort of government emerges we won't be in a position to heal the wounds. As to whether we want to put the war criminals on trail, well yes! but Do we have the institutional capacity to undertake such thorny issue?. The victims have no choice but to wait the day of judgement just as the man who chanted "Ahmadiyaanu nahay iyo ehel Islaameed, ... insha Allahu Aakhiro weysku arki doonaa" in a long poem, the legend has it, after he learned that Inna Abdulle Hassan issued an edict to kill him and other "Ahmadiya dariiqa". Raad arooryo dib loomo raaco.

I appreciated. Thnx sxb.

Sorry folks I intended to post this in General forum. Admin/Moderators could u plz move it to the General forum. Thank u in advance.

Sorry folks I intended to post this in General forum. Admin/Moderators could u plz move it to the General forum. Thank u in advance.

Please sign it if u are US resident. It will help. -----Original Message----- From: Linda Perry [mailto:lperry@secondharvest.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:32 AM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PETITION Subj: FW: AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PETITION This is the official site to sign the petition in favor of affirmative action. This email is well worth the time to send to all of your friends and chapter members. http://www.bamn.com/supreme-court.asp It only takes 2 seconds to sign the petition. We all need to be on board with this.

Please sign it if u are US resident. It will help. -----Original Message----- From: Linda Perry [mailto:lperry@secondharvest.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:32 AM To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PETITION Subj: FW: AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PETITION This is the official site to sign the petition in favor of affirmative action. This email is well worth the time to send to all of your friends and chapter members. http://www.bamn.com/supreme-court.asp It only takes 2 seconds to sign the petition. We all need to be on board with this.

Bari_nomad, Michael Mariano was a Christian Somali. He was a prominent veteran of the SYL’s formative years. Dismayed to the ceding of Haud to Ethiopia, he founded National United Front (NUF). As a civil servant and Somali Christian, he led the nationalist struggle for the return of the Haud (part of western Somalia). The fact that a Christian led a militantly Muslim Somalis speak volumes of how determined and united we used to be. His efforts were derailed when SNL and USP had made his Christian affiliations a prominent campaign issue. In 1960 first elections contested along party lines SNL and USP won almost all the seats contested at expense of NUF. Out of 33 seats, NUF won just one. That seat was won by Michael Mariano. He will be remembered as a true Somali nationalist and political hero when history is rewritten by unbiased, impartial authors.

Muraad, Thanks for posting that article. Jazakallah bro. 'Waa waxaan lagu waari doonin' alla run iyo xikmad badanaa dadkii hore.

While the clan or the tribe is not to blame, negative tribalism is a big problem. In fact negative tribalism is the root cause of our ills. It is the very instrument that is used to create, conduct, and sustain mistrust among Somalis. Mistrust breeds violence and violence leads (already led) us to anarchy. The fact that known clannish leaders have constituents (some are both informed and educated, and great number of them are misled and manipulated) should make clear to all of us where the root cause of the problem is emanating. Ignorance, poverty, injustice, and bad governance are all manifestations or the symptoms not the root cause. We can tackle these immediate concerns once we address this malaise. Now! I’m not saying the problem is one dimensional. It is not. Right leadership with clannish environment hardly functions unless we come up a system that checks the tribalism. Tribalism is the most immediate and present danger that we need to address. How? You tell me! Give Islamist a chance. You see! Islam has a system, have leaders who truly embrace that system and who have both character and direction. The only thing that is missing is informed populous. That can be addressed, I think.