Baashi, this is an organization which is imposed upon us. It stands contrary to reason and logic; it legitimizes use of force to irreponsible actors; its corner stone is emotional blackmail via blood ties; it limits individual production and success; it encourages underdevelopment by stigmatizing artisanship and farming. All these things are deliberately created to enable the effective operation of the clan structure, which is faulty from the outset. The initial purpose for doing so is the control of societal wealth. Imposed on us you said! Qabiil is imposed on us huh! Who is doing that? That’s what I wanna know buddy. Come again Jamaal, tell us more sxb . Muad, Take a note sxb, my pal Jamaal has just formed his own group .

Originally posted by QUANTUM LEAP: Oh by the way bro any chance you could redraw the map and insert the info you think is right? Will do that some other time sxb. I'm sure someone will google his/her way to the correct map before I do the hard work of redrawing the map Seriously though, it is very hard to get it right at this stage (as there is dispute between SL and PL over who controls where) without starting off claims and counter claims. On the population issue, unless there is a formal tally, I for one wouldn't put too much credence to any estimate done by anyone.

QL, The map (Population) posted by Ngonge (earlier) is inaccurate map. It is way off the mark! The last census was done in 1975 and that census didn’t spell out the clan population ratio. So how do you know the population of tribe X? You use the population density of clan’s regional seat right? Very well, let’s do that! Does the 1975 density map reflect the accurate clan ratio of Somalis? Remember there is no census to back this up. The result is an extrapolation between the regional population densities and the corresponding clans that inhabit these regions. If the 1975 density is used Hobyo, for instance, has more population than Bosaso or Galkacyo! The other (the one you pasted) is inaccurate map as well. The blue regions or provinces are not under the Puntland state of Somalia.

Originally posted by Caaqil: Weli ma warkii zamzam baa la wadaa??? I thought the Zamzam story was over. But how wrong I was! You can hardly visit a somali site without reading about Zamzam. Caaqil, Zamzam waa dhibane la dulmiyey, lamana sii deyn ogaanteen, what made you think her ordeal was over? I commend each and every Somali site that put her story in the front page. I don't know what to make of those who are bothered by the news about this gross injustice. In all honest, I don't quite understand why anyone would want the coverage on this story to go away!

Very well Viking, do the two share the same view of the world then?

How about European monarchies? Does the in-breeding effect them too?

^Good read. This article got me thinking...

^Informative.

Xariggiisa qabo aadmi kale kuma xurmeeyeene. Wiil dheh. Muad iyo xiin waa mahadsan tihiin.

Ms Word, we are on the same page sis on this. Reason is the integral part of the religion. My objection to it stems from the fact that some people give too much credence to philosophers speculative effort to make sense of the mystery of life. Positive, I’m not sure if I understand your point. Let me say this; I’m all for the communicating and I’m also for utilizing human intellect. What I don't understand is the motives behind substituting the human rational interpretation for the revealed knowledge or when one uses human intellect to invalidate Qur’anic verse. That’s what this topic is all about. *Comes to class, sits down without making any noise, and starts listening attentively! As I tune in, the light bulb in my cranium goes on...walaaaa!* Even though there is no inherent antagonism between religious knowledge and reason, there is a clear distinction between the two. The first supercedes the later. Once one becomes Muslim and embraces Islam and its tenants, one has to attain that inner peace of “iimaanâ€. When faced difficult questions that relate to “Aqiidah†such as Allah’s whereabouts or the mystery of eternity and infinity, Muslims (emphasis added) have to look to the source of Islamic knowledge for answers first then utilize the light of reason and the testimony of the sense. Engaging circular reasoning and infinite digression, for instance, in order to defend the existence of Allah (macaatha Allah), or Angels, is sure way of getting stray from the right path in my opinion! For the non-believers, it is only natural for them to enquire until they find their way into Islam. That should be expected from anyone in search of Truth. My understanding is once one attains the enlightenment (Islam), one’s questions are answered to one’s satisfaction. From this point on the philosophizing Islam and confusing Islam with Greek wisdom or even looking up to Greek philosophers to validate Islamic directives must stop. I would have to agree with the point that prudence must be exercised and one must know his audience.

War ninyahoow xiinfaniin bal xiinfaniin farskii ahaa akhyaarta bal uga sheekee. Soo ma ahayn faraskii Inna Cabdille Xassan yarada kala bakheylay ee uu Islaanku ninkii ergada uu u soo direy yiri Sayid faraska Islaanku ku weydiiseytey bixi! Awoowe bal innoga taariikhee oo gabaygaa soo raadi fadlan. Abwaan Soomaaliya ka tiiraanyeeysan oo inta gartay tabarta iyo lixaadkiisu inaan waxba ka qaban karin markaa afka ka fatahmey umal daraadii. Waa gabay aad u qiimo badan oo la yiraahdo waa wax ula jeedo. Waqtigii yimaadaba xilligu waayo soo curiye, Walbahaarku waa ii egyahay inaan walaacaaye, Kol hadaan wabigaa fatahay, waabin kari heynin, Oo aan waaxyaha kabeyn cududahaa wiiqmey, Nafta waxaan ku maaweeliyaa samirkii taag waaye, Mar haduu wadajirkeedii lumoo, wacadkii beenoobey, Oo geedka kii waab la yidhi, weel ku kala qeybshay, Wadaantaan nin-tooxsiga ah, iyo waa kumaa darane, Waji baa far lagu meyrayaa, beesha wadi meyso!

^ Will tell u all about it if u really wanna kno. I don’t know if you can follow through the program though, this one is very tough act bro. U gotta be big bad azz pimp to enroll it. To get u started, u gotta pass the self-esteem quiz. You don’t fail this quiz and all it does is tell us where ur self-esteem metric is at and how bad hustler u’ve really been. That’s all! From there, we gonna get down biz! Are u up to the task kidos? I’ve seen many pimp-gang wannabees who watched too much BET and r very good imitating. U r no biggie! Try this: three libton tea bags with 1/16†long qorfe stick, two heel seeds, and 1/8 sanjabeel dust, and one cup of hot water. This dose can make any novice appreciate the healing power of shaah. This is a powerful stuff! Even P Diddy is thinking to endorse this nomad invention U need to get that dose before you ask me more questions. That way we will be on the same frequency! Capisci! Barwaaqo, Tell me about the supply drives the demand theory! Femme, Yeah! this is not ur typical Kismayo waarikoow Translation: this is not kitchen Shaah. This shaah is the real deal.

Originally posted by *Chauvinist*: Baashi: what on earth is you on about?, have you replaced Ngoone in this 'ask rhetorical q's'session? Chauvinist, I'm on shaah sxb. U should try it bro. It is better than crack, weed combined! Once u go shaah, u stay shaah...I guaranteed

That was a good read VR. Now I have few questions if you don't mind: What drives the singers to act this way? Is this “show me more bare skin†thing market driven business where demand-supply equation dictates what sells? What does this huge demand for this line of business say about the society’s morality? Why would anyone want to excuse mature and sane women who are willing to submit to degradation? Is there a need for government oversight? Can government legislate morality? If not how do you prevent consumers who have appetite for these types of products?

From time to time the users of this site are exposed to topics they are not familiar with. When such topics are posted, some of us sometimes join the crowd and post our take on the subject at hand. Sometimes we may see the topic as being trivial one and treat the posts in it as mere words on the screen. Not all posts are that trivial however. Some posts convey feelings, others convey ideas, and some exhort us to change our views on certain things. The non-trivial posts such as the ones that discuss religious issues need not to be taken lightly. We must be careful on the topics related to religion in general and Islam in particular. In light of the recent topics, I noticed a problem that has to do with religious knowledge in relation to philosophy. I could be totally off the mark but it seems as if the difficult questions posted are subjected to reason first and then (depending on how reasonable the answer is) our faith or lack there of is justified. Why can’t one be satisfied with what the revealed knowledge has to say about the particular question? Okay let’s get to it! There are two ways of knowing the Truth. One way is through faith and the other through reason. Religion is based on faith whereas philosophy is based on reason. The difference between religious knowledge (theology) and philosophy is that each begins from a different starting point. The religious man’s quest for knowledge begins with a faith in Allah and rests the demonstration of his conclusion upon the authority of revealed knowledge. Difficult questions are weighed in and answered through the prism of the revealed knowledge. Any deviations from the revealed knowledge amount to a rejection of faith in Allah. The philosophers, on the other hand, first try to find reasons to show that a belief in Allah can be defended “intellectuallyâ€. Instead of relying revelations, they construct “proofs†relying solely upon operation of human mind. Thus they draw their conclusions from their rational interpretations of things in nature. Don’t get me wrong. Reason is awesome. But the problem is that reasonable people can and do indeed disagree. Philosophers disagree in many critical issues. They have many different theories on soul, on essence, on immortality, on knowledge, on causality; you name it and they have different take on it. They all use reason and make reasonable and compelling rational explanation for their case. Which one should one belief? Why? Because of the way one articulates and presents one's case persuaded us! Remember they all make use of logic! What happens when a Muslim goes out his way and tries to construct “proofs†in a bid to provide a rational support for our beliefs? Why would one be compelled to proof the existence of Allah? Does this effort stem from doubt or this is a bid to advance our knowledge? What kind of knowledge - one independent of revealed knowledge? Is there a limitation to what we can know?

QL, Muad’s last post is somewhat accurate. That map shows pretty much what tribe resides where. Although some major sub-clans are not shown on the map, all the main Somali tribes and their area of influence and residence are accurately shown. Now how does this tribal map get translated into 4.5 formulas (the so-called power-sharing arrangement)? The answer of this one is not as easy as you might think. Consider the fact that this power-sharing arrangement is not a one based on population (there is no official census of the population) nor is it based on land! It was a compromise that happen to get the support of the majority with the understanding that within two and half years there will be new tally of the population and a new constitution (permanent) as well. Remember these Mps are not your typical Mps! These are appointees! In the Nairobi gathering, the leaders and warlords wielded more power than the traditional “issimoâ€. Some sub-sub-clans got more than their quota, some got less, and others got none. Thus even in clan wise, the representation is not accurate. Nevertheless this is what we got from that conference. Whatever works brother! – if this is what puts an end to the violence and the anarchy so be it. There you have it sxb. Btw, Shaqsii sxb tell me what happened to the site golden rules (qabiil names and all of that). Has it changed or this is a case of la jiifiyaana banaan. Not that I’m objecting your wisdom of course

Originally posted by AYOUB_SHEIKH: Ilaahay ka baqa kaasi waa ereygi weynaaye Waa sidaa. Ciid wanaagsan yaa Muslimiin.

"Waa maalin weynoo muslimiinta oo idil ay wada maqsuudeen..." soo saa ma aheyn horta. Ciid wanaagsan akhyaarta.

Originally posted by juxa: As Allah waters his creation, may he also sprinkle his wonderous blessing over you wishing you a life of Taqwa. Aamiin. Happy b-day Maandeeq.

Lander, That is debatable sxb. Some would say the regime was genuine (in the early days of the revolution) in all of its programs including the war against tribalism. Some would go further and say the regime had a compelling interest in that campaign considering the fact that the old order was well positioned to dominate political landscape if the regime had not acted and suppressed the tribal sentiments. As I said this is debatable. Ngonge, If the country is peaceful and prosperous and everyone is well off financially but the political system is corrupt; If the leadership practices nepotism, favoritism, and justice becomes an institution that requires political support. If this happens in a tribal society and certain clans feel disenfranchised, it follows that malcontents feel compelled to stick together and protest against the injustice. What other recourse do they have if the justice system failed them and leadership is consolidating power and wealth at their expense? If the political system provides no other venue (like courts) that could be utilized to channel these grievances, then negative tribalism fills the vacuum and becomes the vehicle for change noh? Suppose that Faarax is well off businessman in Buuloxuubeey. He is well educated and got a lot going on for him. His assets are mainly in the real estate business. The people around him are pretty much independent and everyone do what he does best. The survey folks at the municipal office make habit to confiscate Faarax’s property and justify their actions that the city planners deemed necessary to run main roads through this property. Police department, they say, needs to use another junk of Jamac’s land (Faarax’s cousin) for inbound parking purpose; the department of Tourism has to have another property that belongs to Faarax’s brother. There is no compensation. Then Faarax notices a trend; all the folks whose property are confiscated belong to one sub-clan and the people who make decisions belong to another sub-clan. Now armed with this information and the fact that the price for the common good are only paid by one side, he files grievances at the local court. The judge cites a local ordinance that supports the city planners action. The city council that passes these laws happens to be from the same clan. Faarax, the law-abiding citizen that he is, tries to run for office in order to change this trend. The folks at the top rigg the election and everyone knows about it. Now all folks whose properties are illegally confiscated join their forces together and start staging protests. However, the police arrest the organizers (leaders), throw them in prison, and deny them their rights to challenge the authority. Now Buuloxuubeey local paper tells the news as it is. It has deep pockets and has inside information. The editor-in-chief, Faarax’s brother-in-law, is accused of incitement. The paper is closed and he is arrested without due process. Buuloxuubeey residents, an affluent community, feel discriminated because of its clan affiliation. In the court of public conscious (this is tribal society after all), one clan is trying to dominate the political discourse and this clan is using the awesome institution of government to advance its interest at the expense of everyone else. Violence is imminent if the justice is not restored. In this fictional scenario, the fact that the country was enjoying relative peace and the resident of Buuloxuubeey were well off financially has no bearing! What say you sage Ngonge? Don’t you think this is what happened in our beloved Somalia? Do you think the ones that protested violently did it for the violence sake? Do you think if the justice were there, the people would be compelled to take up arms against the authority because of poverty?

Aamiin.

Dadka waxaan ogaysiinayaa, dowgu suu yahaye Soomaaliday dayaya wanaag, idinka doorsoonye Docda bari, dorooriga baddiyo, Seylac deriskeeda Dusha koonfureed iyo ilaa, wabiga daaciisa Degmadeena oo idil haddaan, dayey abwaankeeda Nimaan duubiyadu naafo noqon, deelka laga waaye Dul iyo hoosba waan ugu dhigaye, waa dix-dhagaxeede Anuunbaa damqanayee dheguhu, uma daloolaane Dadkaan la hadlayaa baan lahayn, dux iyo iimaane Bal inay dalfoof tahay caqliga, dooni laga saaray Wixii hore usoo daashadaay, degashanaysaaye Doc hadday u wada jeedsatooy, dhowrto danaheeda Ooy duul walaala ah tahaooy, duunka ka heshiiso Dadka kama yaraateene ways, dabar jaraysaaye Dubba madaxa wayskala dhacdaa, daa'in abidkiise Goortay is wada dooxatay baa, daad u soo geliye Xikmad badanaa Inna Suldaan Timacade. Abdullaahi waxuu ahaa nin sal iyo baar u yaqaan Soomaalida laakiin qadiyadiisu ay ka sareeyso qoys, jifo, iyo qabiil oo ay gaarsiisan tahay qarran iyo diin. Alla yarxama.

Sxb Jaceyl ina Baro wuxu gabay ma aha ee waa geeraar. Wax badanna kama fahmin. Kolay xikmad badan kuma jidho. Hadde waa sidey ila tahay

Sidii sabi tiraabtiyo kalaamkii, saxi aqoon waayey, Ama innan sureer ahoo, amaan sin iyo baar lagu saafay, Ama saancade waayeel ahoo, safaadiyo shidada diidaaye, Dibnahay saaran tahay misana sax ma ahee si kale ku day, Saadku waa dhib badanyahee xarafaan siin aheyn ku sheeg, Heli waayey saakee, murtida noo soo maal Sophiste sxb. Awoowe gabay maant ima hayo...soo ma maqal ninkii yiri Sayidoow gabay aa i haaya

I beg to differ there sxb. To answer your question, government exist to help us get alone. One has one’s freedom to protect and the list is long…the freedom of worship (of speech, of thought, etc). What government does first is to protect its people from aggression (any). It also provides the freedom for each person consistent with the freedom of every other person. Here is simple example (I’m simple guy and like simplicity) a dispute about a play in a soccer game. This has nothing to do with economic resources. Yet it can get out of hand; argument could become severe and end up in violence. I wonder what you would do if your cousin were involved in this dispute! (each party to the dispute thinks he is right). You need some sort of authority to settle the dispute. Without it there would be no way of resolving the dispute. My understanding is that freedom comes first. Establishing authority out of the freewill of free people is the second logical step. Making laws of the land is the third step. Here is where the difficulty arises. For the law to have teeth, it must be just. Man is imperfect being and man-made laws reflect that fact. So it all comes down to the concept of justice and its application. If the folks that are entrusted with making laws are (deep down in their heart) seeking the justice to which the law in its making should conform, then that authority would have guaranteed the political stability for the community it represents. Now the distribution of resources falls under the jurisdiction of the legislators noh? See the legislators are not economic body they are political body hence the supremacy of the political order over economic order. My guess is that what you r getting at is the fact that social inequality is a source of conflict. True that. If I’m not mistaken what you and Ngonge are saying is that affluent communities are less likely to disrupt their mode of life – not for mere tribal sentiment. True that too. But there is a long way between where we are at and the affluence you have in mind. Now lets go back to the topic and ask why would we want to denounce qabiil which is the basis in which our society is organized? What do we want to achieve by doing that? And how we go about doing that? Just a thought! Excuse the rambling mzee Jamaal.