kickz;973694 wrote: Asinine thinking, anytime people are being massacred its of everyone's concern the egyptians don't give a hoot about somalis when they were being massacred. so why you should you concern yourself with their problems. asinine thinking on your part

i agree about the mortality rate, but its getting better on that front as people move from rural to urban areas within Somalia and get access to healthcare. the fertility rate never drops off though ( ~ 6.26 in 2012 ), its consistently among the 5 highest in the world. which is very worrying.

I don't think so. This confrontation is between the MB and the Military, Copts have no dog in this fight, so mine is the better question.

why are the MB attacking Coptic churches ?

Never changing eh. i think 55 million is too high, Kenya which is more densely populated is around 40 million, so its impossible. we are getting there soon, as contraception uptake levels are too low and the culture is very natalist.

DoctorKenney;973656 wrote: It does permit slavery . But only under very specific and limited circumstances, and the "slaves" are nothing more than slaves in name, but not in practice. They are not to be abused, captured into slavery, and are to be freed when they request their freedom. Now end the discussion. Thank you, this is all i wanted. i have nothing more to add to this debate now.

I keep repeating myself because you don't answer yes or no to the question. i asked you a simple question, does Islam allow slavery ?. i said it does, you on other hand keeping dancing around the issue, telling us how the prophet ordered slaves be treated nicely and so on, but won't say nothing about its legality. who's being honest here.

the sprawl of this city is just mind boggling.

Khadafi;973564 wrote: Hobessian, we all want a Somalia on it's own feet, but why do you want the poor somalis, those without the money to buy medical care to simply die? What would you do if you were among those many somalis who have no other alternative then to seek medical care from MSF? Your a gaal but to be honest even the gaalo has more mercy then you. Ninkaani is a freaking troll - LOOOL that was funny, Khadaafi, i am consistent on this. I don't want any aid in whatever form to find its way to the developing world. let them get up on their own damn feet. Somalis can care for each other as we have done since we come into being on this earth, we are sharing people. where do you get they idea that MSF has to provide medicines for poor people, and why stop at Medicines, they desperately need food too, clothes, jobs etc. where does it stop ?? you get my drift. Your already have the faulty mentality in your head that poor people can't survive without western NGO's. How have we survived all these time in our country then ?? cajiib, talk about mental slavery, emancipate your mind.

actually yes.

waxaas iska daa laguuma dirsaneh, do you support the decision or not ?

Somali and indian men are disgusting. its like they have never seen females, even fufus are better than them.

Khayr;973545 wrote: Blah, blah, blah. More verbal diarrhea from you. are you tongue tied ?

Since we can't get the Muslims here to give an honest rebuttal, and all they can muster is some lame hadeeths advocating for the kind treatment of slaves, while saying nothing about the evil practice of humans owning humans beings as property in the first place, we can close this chapter and move on to other unsavory parts of their so called Islamic justice system. Here is sharia on women; sharia is extremely anti woman, one can safely say Islam is the world's most misogynistic religion ever, past or present. sharia orders women to cover themselves up so as not to inflame the passions of men, while it does it not order men to control their urges. every part of her body is labeled as Awrah -- sexual organ. in sharia, a man can divorce his by repeating the The Talaaq word three times, of course no such luxury is afforded to women. in sharia, a woman claiming rape must be witnessed by four men otherwise it is not permissible in court. Sharia forbids women from pursuing livelihoods and gaining economic freedom and basically relegates them to chattel status whose sole purpose is produce children, cook food and provide sexual services to her husband. In sharia a husband can call his wife to bed anytime he likes and the angels will curse her if she declines till morning. Women are the Majority of hell fire according to Islam. Child bride marriages are legal under Sharia, in fact Muhammad consummated marriage to a 9 yr old girl and married her at 6 yrs ( yes ). how awful ? and they consider this man the supreme guide of conduct. Islam denies women education, that is why devout Muslims like the Taliban poison schoolgirls, or kill them just like they attempted with Malala Yusuf. Sharia condones honor killings. in sharia, a woman inherits half what a man inherits. in sharia, a man has the right to have up to 4 wives and none of them have a right to divorce him -- even if he is polygamous. in sharia, its clear that the dowry is given in exchange for the woman's sexual organs. in sharia, a man is allowed to have sex with slave women and women captured in battle, and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled. in sharia, the testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man. in sharia, a woman loses custody if she remarries. in sharia, a husband has a right to physically assault his wife. in sharia, only the man can initiate divorce. in sharia, there is no community property between husband and wife and the husband's property does not automatically go to the wife after his death. in sharia, a rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim. in sharia, a Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife at the time he caught her in the act of adultery. in sharia, a woman can not attain position of leadership in whatever form over men. in sharia, a woman has to be accompanied by a male relative ( Maxram ) whenever she goes outside. in sharia, women are stoned to death if they get pregnant out of wedlock, men because their don't get preganant can escape. Amina lawal of nigeria is case in point. Al shabaab stoned to death an unmarried 13 yr girl who was raped by Arab jihadis in Somalia, she arrested and brought before a kangaroo sharia court and stoned to death. " Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was killed on Monday, 27 October, by a group of 50 men who stoned her to death in a stadium in the southern port of Kismayu, in front of around 1,000 spectators." This is just the tip of the iceberg regarding the evils of sharia which Muslims everywhere support overwhelmingly and want to implement. ^ A poor Iranian woman facing stoning as per sharia punishment for adultery. This is what Muslims want to introduce in the 21st century

GAROODI;973519 wrote: ^^^ MSF is not the UN Einstien. They go to war zones where no one will go to and treat injured people... Learn the difference between UN aid and MSF assistance. They do a fantastic job. Go and treat the poor people your denying basic life to. You think the somali government will help them? You have shown your ignorance, Aid is not only UN but includes lots of other organizations. MSF falls within the Aid industry. if you want fight endless clan wars, no one should treat you, but must be left to face the horrors of your foolishness alone and unaided so that you truly cherish peace. There in lies the wisdom, einstein.

What facts are you disputing ? i don't get you, are you saying; 1. There was no Arab slave trade that predated, and after dated the Atlantic slave trade by centuries. 2. That 150 Million blacks ( or greater number ) from Africa were enslaved by Arabs with explicit religious justification. 3. That converted Blacks were the prime slavers of fellow blacks and assisted in both the Atlantic and Arab slave trade. 4. That it was the west -- the perpetrators of the Atlantic slave trade who were behind the abolition and putting an end to the institution of slavery and compelled Arab Muslims to cease its activity in Africa. 5. That Islamic Law allows for slavery for all time and Muslims would not hesitate for a second to restart once they get into saddle of power. 6. Let alone Arabs Muslims apologizing and showing remorse for the horrors inflicted upon millions Africans and other races over centuries of Islamic tyranny and misrule. if you have facts to disprove my assertions, provide them.

Because i fundamentally believe Aid does not work. The Aid industry piggy backs on third world misery to enrich certain people with little results to show for the Billions of dollars they collect and spend on others behalf. More importantly Aid creates distortions, disincentives, dependency and is an obstacle to genuine indigenous solutions. No country has developed through Aid, it is a feel good avenue for guilt ridden liberals in developed countries to expiate for their sins. Look at the recent example of Haiti, it has received vast amounts of Aid in money and materiel since the earthquake, however there is little to show for it, that is well documented. Some of the supposed Aid is also loans entered into and signed by corrupt and unelected regimes in the third world, which will fall on the backs of their impoverished citizens to pay for generations, a kind of bondage or modern day slavery. Aid is a crime against humanity.

Medical charity Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) is closing all its programmes in Somalia after 22 years working in the war-torn country. It said in a statement that the decision had been taken because of "extreme attacks on its staff". It said armed groups and civilian leaders increasingly "support, tolerate or condone the killing, assaulting, and abducting of humanitarian aid workers". More than 1,500 staff have provided a range of services across Somalia. Unni Karunakara, MSF's international president, said it has been one of the hardest decisions MSF has ever had to make. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23697275 Good news.

Carafaat;973471 wrote: So basicly, you oppose an Islamic Justice system just because there was slavery in some Arabs countries centuries ago . But then I wonder why you dont oppose the western system, havent they enslaved dozens of millions, used nuclear bombs against innocent civilians, colonized and robbed hundreds of countries, killed 6 million jews, started 2 world wars, etc, etc. Your argument is baseless. Are you playing dumb ? centuries ago kulaha.....it is happening as we speak in Muslims countries, don't be lazy and look up the evidence i have provided. i was just showing the practice of your so called " Islamic Justice system " put in to action by giving this historical details.If not for the western rise and dominance, slavery would have continued till today.There is nothing in sharia that forbids it, neither have Islamic scholars forbidden it, in fact they have reaffirmed the legality of it to the present day. There no Muslim abolitionists at all, all Muslims do is dance around the question but none ( including you ) will condemn slavery, in fact its Xaraam to say slavery is forbidden according to Islam, for its a grave sin to forbid what Allah has made Xalaal. I don't oppose the western system because it doesn't condone war on unbelievers just because their religion is different unlike Islam, that is why you ( Muslims ) can build mosques and practice Islam freely in their lands, but a christian can't build a church and pray as he likes in any Muslim country. Islam orders followers to be intolerant.

Who the heck are kabiyolax ?. Cambuulo, HAG had this coming, they have taken the nation for a merry go around for far too long.

Let's start with the figures, the 150 million Africans was over 1400 years of Islamic rule, its actually a conservative estimate and most probably that figure is much higher, we would never know precisely because unlike the Western slave trade it was not recorded, but historians have fairly good estimate in that range. We have not even mentioned other nationalities and races which are put in the order ~ 50 Million slaves. Look it up if you don't believe me. "...the worst, most inhumane and most diabolical institution of the black African slave trade was initiated, refined, perpetrated and implemented by the Mohammedan Arabs and later aided and abetted by the black converts to Mohammedan Islam." John Alembillah Azumah, Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa " A comparison of the Islamic slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Islamic slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims. While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Trans Sahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%! While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service. While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive. While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth." Why the so called Arab slave trade ? The Atlantic slave trade happened in much shorter time frame, that is undisputed. i think it down to superior technology bigger, faster ships and better organization not kindness or humanity on the part of the Arab slavers. " it also set the socioeconomic and political landscape for later European colonial rule, which continues to have an effect on contemporary Africa and its relationship with the global north ". Undoubtedly, but don't generalize, the vast majority of the continent wasn't touched at all by the Atlantic slave trade, it was concentrated on the West Coast of Africa. Africans, blacks, indigenous people of the continent call them what you want. were not into word games here. Black Muslims are victims even though they participated in the slaving of their fellow blacks during the Atlantic slave trade. "They also converted Africans into Islam, causing a complete social and financial collapse of the entire African continent apart from wealth attributed to a few regional African kings who became wealthy on the trade and encouraged it."

http://www.thenoblequran.com/sps/sp.cfm?subsecID=NDV01&articleID=NDV010010&articlePages=1

Cambuulo iyo bun;973432 wrote: nonsense. Galgaduud,half Mudug,shabellada dhexe,shabelle,hoose,Banaadir.Bay,Bakool,Hiiraan, Gedo,Jubba dhexe,parts of Jubbo hoose all supports the SFG. Hobessian what Hassan sheikh is doing is making kmg maamuls while the federal states are getting created nothing wrong in that. Hahaha, you believe that ? walahi your a political novice cambuulo. He is putting lackeys in charge to preempt the local stakeholders before they choose their leaders.

Who forces him to say such shit bal. its takes a special kind of cravenness to stoop that low.:mad:

We have seen this movie in Pirate-Land before. all they will get is water.:cool: I confidently predict there is no oil in all of somalia. we may have some oil offshore.