Oiler;982318 wrote: This debate is not going anywhere, people lie about the religion all the time, and introduce innovations. Remember God causes whomsoever He wills to stray in error, and sets whomsoever He wills on the straight way. +1 I'm not looking for debate. Just shining light amongst the individuals within us claiming to be Muslim, like the likes of Irshad Manji and her "crusaders of reform".

Safferz;982312 wrote: ^^ lol! Well no, not quite, unless you conflate civil law with religious law. Classified also conflates behaviour (what Islam and religions in general try to regulate) with feelings, desires, thoughts, etc. He seems the type to tell a gay Muslim not to bother praying, because "you can't be gay and Muslim," but wouldn't say that to his friend with a girlfriend, or a Muslim who drinks and parties. And I can't stand Irshad Manji. A gay muslim? lol

Thank you for your input. You said, - Organising his clan to march to the capital and secceeded to reach the gates of city before he was defeated. So, if he organized his clan to march to the capital, who was controlling the capital? Is it safe to say at that point, there was no more a central government, but rather a civil war (every tribe for himself)? In retrospect, the very leaders of the rebel movements were part of the government of Siad Barre. Abdullahi Yusuf, a Colonel in the government tried to stage a bloodless coup in 1978 and he failed. Apparently, the former government officials who were part of the SNM, USC and SPM were trying to overthrow the very government they were part of and install themselves as the sole rulers. Another dictatorship, perhaps? Who are we against, one man (Siad Barre) or his entire government (including all those that were at one point part of his government)? The point of this thread is, should 21 October be legalized as a National holiday or not?

^ WTF! *Jaw dropped* So, is it safe to say that Safferz is not a Muslim?

One last question Safferz, what do you think of Irshad Manji? Also, is it okay in Islam (be it religiously or in Islamic Shariah) to be a homosexual/lesbian? Have in mind that Irshad Manji advocates for a total reform/overhaul in Islam/Quran, so to speak.

Safferz;982302 wrote: Just like the Xalimo and Chinese guy are both Americans, or whatever. What's your point? Zaid was a black slave in Mecca. Khaled Abou El Fadl's books "And Allah Knows the Soldiers: The Authoritative and Authoritarian in Islamic Discourses" and "Speaking in God's Name: Islamic Law, Authority, and Women" is a good start. Who's Khaled Abou El Fadl? :confused: What do you think about what Oiler said? Is it true? If yes, do you agree with it?

YoniZ;982297 wrote: Well, let me ask you few questions my friend. Who controlled the whole Somali Republic territory before the Siyad's coup? Did he left power in better/worse state than he inherited the affairs of the Republic? How do you compare Mengistu's exit to Siyad's one? How patriotic is president who lost his power seat, to hang on in remote tribal region and follow the infamous scorch earth policies? That should give you a food for thought, before thinking like the SOL's young political pundits born in late 80s or early 90s. To answer your questions. 1. I never said his government was the "only" government that controlled the entire country. I said his government was the LAST to do that. Prior to his government, there were two government, whom allegedly were full of corruption (key word: allegedly), and those two governments as well controlled the entire country. 2. Your second and third questions are pretty much connected. Mengistu's exit was due to the rebel movements uniting and forming a government together. They didn't go on a killing spree against different tribes. That's why when Siad was ousted, had the rebels worked together, Somalia would've had a strong central government right after January 26, 1991. 3. Siad left the capital and went to Gedo region, like you said, in a remote tribal region, leaving the Capital and it's surrounding areas into the hands of his opponents. Had the rebels that took control over Mogadishu (capital) and Hargeisa (second largest town) had any plans to build a united government for the people and by the people, they could've. They had the political, economical and social powerhouse under their hands (the capital). I don't know how 70 year old ousted President in a remote tribal town in Gedo could be of any threat. lol

Safferz;982295 wrote: Like I said, there's no scholarly consensus so some may say it goes both ways, others say it does not. Hassan Al-Turabi is a well known Sudanese sheikh and political figure. Who are these "Some" that "say it goes both ways" and who are these "Others" that "say it does not"? :? Don't just throw empty rhetoric, provide substantial evidence to your claims. I'm thirsty for more knowledge. Educate me, bal.

Mooge;982292 wrote: Turabi a Sudanese politician. Did she just referred to a Sudanese politician as an Isamic scholar? *scratching his head*

Hawdian;982290 wrote: A famous saying from Sayed Barre goes like this When I came to Xamar the city had only one asphalt Road when I leave I will only leave this one road This man was a disaster on every level. Are you sure that isn't dacaayad? Have you watched/listened to Siyaad Barre's last speech in 1991? Is it Calaacal, Threat or Dardaaran?

Safferz;982286 wrote: The man sowed the seeds of Somalia's destruction. It's a part of our history and should be remembered, but I don't think it should be celebrated either. I don't understand the nostalgia for what was a brutal military dictatorship How did he sow the seeds of Somalia's destruction? Are you saying the position we're in wouldn't ever happen, had Siad Barre never came to power? As for it being brutal, can you give us empirical evidence?

Safferz;982284 wrote: I answered your question, there is no such thing as "the Islamic perspective" because there is no one perspective for a matter that's been debated over centuries and has no scholarly consensus. Someone like Hassan al-Turabi has said it's permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a Christian or Jew. I don't care either way. Interesting. So, the Ahlu Kitab position goes for both genders and isn't exclusive to only men marrying from the "people of the book". Who's Hassan Al-Turabi?

Haatu;982273 wrote: Islamically a women cannot marry a non-muslim. I didn't ask you. But, thank for your input.

Safferz;982268 wrote: Of course they *can,* whether they *should* is something that's been up for debate for centuries and positions vary amongst scholars. Of course they can, as it's their choice to do as they please; but the 'can' I asked refers to from Islamic perspective. Does Islam allow Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men? Also, if you don't mind, what is your position on the matter Islamically?

Safferz;982262 wrote: ^^ you don't inherit religion from anyone and certainly not your father, in fact that's one aspect of traditional Arab religion that Islam clearly forbids. Don't try and invent religious justification for ethnocentrism and bigotry, Prophet Muhammad himself was married to women of different ethnic backgrounds (ie. a Jewish woman, an Egyptian Copt) and even encouraged interracial marriages (ie. he asked his cousin Zaynab to marry Zaid ibn Haritha). Can a Muslim woman marry a Non-Muslim man?

Should it be a National holiday in the new Federal Republic of Somalia? As we all know, the last Somali government that had controlled every bit of square mile from the Djibouti border to the Kenyan border and along side the Ethiopian border was Mohamed Siad Barre's government of 21 years. Ever since that government collapsed, there was and there is no central/federal government that controls the entire country, from the Djibouti border to the Kenyan border. Should the Kacaan be recognized as symbol of pride or should it be rejected like Nazism post-world war 2? If 21 October becomes a National holiday, what about the Rebel movements? Would they too be given national platform to recognize them as saviors or will they be rejected like Nazism as well?

Can you send me the picture via Private Message? I never expected Somalia to banned, ever. lol

I say, those that spread such propaganda (Somali women with Ajnabi men as an epidemic) should be ostracized themselves. They're like Fox News, painting ALL Muslims as Terrorists, because 19 Saudis allegedly hijacked two airliners and smashed it into the World Trade Center.

Che -Guevara;982224 wrote: Someone sent me a picture through SOL. Glad to know he's banned. Who got banned? Also, can you tell me what the picture is.

Apophis;982056 wrote: What are the advantages and disadvantages of dating garoob? Disadvantage: She'll go Safferz on you. Advantage: You can quit at anytime and not worry about leaving behind any packages.

Wadani;982099 wrote: I only asked to confirm whether u mentioning she is from Hargaysa was an innocent obersvation or not...and clearly it wasn't since u don't condone what she did. Waxaad tahay maangaab. What's the point of condoning what she did. I couldn't careless. What does maangaab mean?

Naxar_Nugaaleed, it's time you gave your name to Saalax and his kin. They're expanding into Sanaag iyo Dhoxo Nugaaleed. It's time you abandoned your username as well.

Mad_Mullah;982089 wrote: With minor adjustments Somalis accept everyone. Don't use Carabta as an example, backwards people that nobody likes Those white ladies look gorgeous with the Somali attire. I'd marry anyone of them over any Somali girl. detect the sarcasm Hawdian, you're right. I feel sorry for her offsprings.

Wadani;981922 wrote: Do u support what she did? I couldn't careless about what she did. As long as her offspring aren't classified as Somali, we're good.

Isn't this her?