AfricaOwn;986635 wrote: What criteria are we using? I vote for Apohis, he seems to be the most sense-able character when debating and is able to control his emotions. He understands that people have widely differing views and does not try to convince others to accept his viewpoint. Apophis is not in this list. You might have seen his name in another more colourful list- the drama queen of the year 2013, but mistakenly wandered into this thread to cast your vote:D

I would employ Awaise as an adviser and a strategist. He is a clever man indeed.

Safferz;986589 wrote: I CANNOT believe this happened today. He ran (waddled) and physically attacked a city councillor: Also, he was imitating drunk driving from his seat: This is hilarious;)

DoctorKenney;986543 wrote: Okay, nice job going on a tangent that has nothing to do with what we discussed, and nice job overlooking my mention of Ibn Nafees, an ARAB Muslim that I mentioned in my previous post, and this is just someone I named off the top of my head. And whether these men were Persian or Arab or Turkish or something else doesn't change anything. And to deny Ibn Haytham and others, who were undoubtedly devout Muslims, reeks of your hypocrisy and hatred. So for you to ignore the literally thousands of Muslim scientists, teachers, and researchers over the centuries and then insult me and the others on this forum due to our being Somali, is unacceptable. I specifically said that all of us, including Somalis and Arabs, should strive towards scientific expertise. Moderators, can you remove the previous post. As it has nothing to do with the discussion and it deliberately insults Somalis as a race, and Arabs as a race. Apart from his predictable prejudice against Islam, I think what Allyourbase said is just the harsh truth written in bold capital letters.

MoonLight1;986534 wrote: if this is true, then this woman will be endangering her self by going back. she knows just too much. But due to the publicity she got and the involvement of the international community she is now almost untouchable as any harm which comes her way will automatically put Mogadishu on a frying pan.

Carafaat;986468 wrote: The year was 1988. It was a time of great turmoil in my world. Ben Johnson had just recorded a new world record in the 100m at the Seoul Olympics. But from my vieuw, 1988 will forever be etched in my heart, for something entirely different. We received news of the 'war' against our people in the North. At the time, I didn't feel any empathy nor did I appreciate the disruption it would come to cause to the blossoming spring of my youth. For me, Xamar Caddey was glistening and that's all that mattered then and still matters now. Exactly a year later, it would have been our turn, had it not been for our flight to Holland. 1989 will forever be marked by a callous and calculated massacre in Case Poplare area. Back then we lived in Howlwadaag. The areas settled by Dirta Waqooyi people were leafier and I have since come to realise the position we occupied among the high society in Xamar Caddey. These days, you often hear of looted properties, yet our properties are still protected. Father still remits money to the enforcers who still continue to protect the properties. This story is not about reclaiming the wealth we accrued, nor it is about playing the hero, but rather, it's a story of a more personal nature. My story. My closure Exactly 25 years to the day my life changed forever, I recall feeling the exact same sentiments in the exact same airport. In 1988, we were leaving amid the impending crisis that has since come to define my life. in 2013, i was returning. Stood inside Frankfurt Airport's busy terminal, awaiting my flight back to Xamar Caddey, I struggled for mental continence. I left a boy and yet here I was returning a man. 25 years of longing to go back to Xamar Caddey was now a reality. 25 years of sacrifice, in the hope of returning, was now achieved. 25 year's nightmare haunted by fond memories of yesteryears in Xamar Caddey was now over. This is my story. My journey. My erasure. My closure. I will serialize the journey successively in this thread. :cool: Who protects you properties? Is it our D!rta koonfur cousins or our longstanding HAG allies? Now I know why you are always going on about re-union:mad: You are so emotionally attached to Mogadishu that you want to sacrifice Somaliland's national interest for your own selfish desires. I think the days of Landers buying properties in Xamar is over. Nowadays, I hear about people only selling their properties. A cousin of mine recently sold one of his properties there for over a million dollars.

It is good to see that Alpha is not allowed to run for the election this year. The guy's campaign tactics are consistently condemned by the UN and the international human rights organisations. This year I am voting for Safferz:o She so effortlessly made many cyber enemies from amongst the traditionalists, religious extremists, sexists, strongwomanphobes, trolls, and pseudo-intellectuals.

DoctorKenney;986459 wrote: There's no reason to think that humans can't materially progress while keeping our morals and values intact. The problem with the West is that they mastered material progress (mathematics, sciences) but their morals and values declined in the last 100 years. We can do both, we can be scientific experts while also being pious Muslims. It's very possible and it's been done many times In fact, I'm going to quote an excerpt from Sayyid Qutb's book "Milestones" on such a topic. Qutb makes a lot of mistakes in some of his writings, and he's not perfect, but I do admire many of his ideas and he was a very eloquent man. I'm gonna underline the noteworthy parts. A truly civilized society has both. It has material progress but it also has a strong moral basis. It affirms scientific knowledge and it's applications while at the same time submitting to Allah and putting your trust in him. And this type of society is the only real civilization, and the only society worthy of ultimate respect. Read what was underlined, as it is very important. I do agree with you 100% and that was the whole point of posting this thread. Unfortunately the Muslims of today(the vast majority) have got neither intellectual advancement nor moral integrity. We sorely lack both and it gives me no pleasure to read articles like the one I posted in the world media. So instead of dismissing the terrible disparity between the Jews and the Muslims in almost any aspect of civilisation(putting aside our noble religion of Islam), isn't it wiser to acknowledge our deficiencies and at least try to change the situation?

Apophis;986311 wrote: The problem with us Somalis is we think we're unique and we lack context. That's why such a silly and utterly out of touch documentary can ‘move' us. Somalis have a very comfortable lives in Kenya. And the mistreatment by the security forces is not unique only to us. It happens all over Africa. It could really be worse. In sum, perspective, perspective and more perspective is what is needed. We literally never had it so good (relatively speaking). The oppressed victims in this documentary disprove your statement. And I don't see this sort of mistreatment and prejudice being directed at the other minority tribes in Kenya let alone the powerful Kikuyu.

Alshabaab is now just a Trojan horse used by the African tyrants to get their mercenaries into Somalia so that whilst the occupiers' salaries are paid by the West, the foreign tyrants also get the benefit of colonising and dominating the Somali people.

thefuturenow;986387 wrote: What DO jewish people have to do with the evils I mentioned? We're talking about 'progress' man, we talkin' bout 'progress,' na na na not the jews, we talkin' bout 'progress.' Material progress that is, not moral--the kind of which the Muslim measures himself. So now you are saying that any progress made brings social evils to society? In that case which age do you want mankind to regress to? The middle ages? The bronze age? The stone age? Or the time of Adam and Eve? Don't you know that the social evils you mentioned already existed in every society from the time of man's advent? Even Adam's son killed his only brother!! And we also know what Pharaohs and many other civilisations used to do to others, thanks to the Quran. So according to all the available historical evidences, if we strip away all the progress from today's world we would still end up with full prisons, rape victims, drug addicts, etc. but only without the benefit of all the technologies we have like the CCTV, DNA testing and fingerprinting to catch the bad guys.

Better to keep the criminals locked away then let them roam the streets. There should never be any mercy for them and the murderers should be executed.

SomaliPhilosopher;986305 wrote: Haatu addressed the source. I am sure if Somalia won the ****** war, the NFD would have been next. Lol that is one of the funniest statements I have read on SOL Prominent politicians of a weak unrecognised Somaliland had the guts to condemn the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia in 2006 even though Ethiopia is our main ally. So the notion of independent strong Somaliland standing up for the rights and dignity of their fellow Somalis in Kenya is not really far fetched.

^ The argument was not raised by me but is a question on the lips of many westerners like Richard Dawkins, hence the title of this thread. And why do you and many other solers attack the individual instead of addressing the issue under discussion? Also where are the inconsistencies in my argument? I am not praising the Jews but I do respect them for their smartness, affluence, and power. Who would not admire such qualities? I am sure if your clan achieved a fraction of the Jews achieved you would be rubbing in on our faces everyday, soo maaha:p?

SomaliPhilosopher;986294 wrote: ^^Perhaps they can now rely on Somaliland? If Somaliland never joined Somalia, our brothers and sisters in NFD would probably be free today. I am sure Somaliland would have gone to war with Kenya either overtly or in other ways.

SomaliPhilosopher;986285 wrote: ^^ To be fair Muhammad Haji Ibrahim Egal is the one who signed the ceasefire for the Shifta wars .Not to mention during the Garissa Massacre, Siad barre threatened to invade Kenya if they didn't set the detained free and lift the curfews Where are the sources which show that Siyaad threatened Kenya? Even if he threatened Kenya, where his threats just empty words? Or may be his army and weapons were there for the destruction of the Northern clan. As is the situation today, Cigaal had no power in the 60s when he was the PM. The real power was in the hands of the president and the cabinet consisting almost entirely of southerners. I think after this sad documentary those still singing "aabe Siyaad" have a lot to explain.

Safferz;986280 wrote: ^ I checked my mail this morning only to find these boots waiting for me, apparently I bought them in my sleep earlier this week via the Zappos app on my phone. I can't be mad because they're hella cute, but I need to start charging my phone at the other side of the room from where I sleep because this is starting to become a terrible habit: ;) you are crazy Saf. I wonder how much money is left in your bank account at the end of the month:confused:

Khayr;986193 wrote: "Those dark ages were so called because it was thr dark-er man who was making progress." Indeed! An Enlightment age was named so because : a) Led by Europeans (whites) b) It was freedom from the shackles of God aka Religion. By the way, Tallabo and others - what is your obsession with jews? They were always displaced people until they were given Palestenian land due to the holy-cost. As if the massacres were committed by the Palestianens and not the Nazis. They have always argued with God and have been a people that have betrayed many. The modern world feels a sense of guilt for them and hence, they always use the jew card. As they say - the jew card never runs out of use. They are are the main financers in Hollywood and the media and are deeply entranched in American politics. It does not make them smarter but rather more cunning and cut throat. After all, most lawyers are jewish. They can manipulate anything for their own cause. You are contradicting yourself. If the Jews are not smart they would not be as cunning and cut throat to the extent of taking over the entire Western world.

While the Somalis in Kenya were being massacred, raped, and humiliated, Afwayne and his D block henchmen were busy plotting against their own people in the North. No wonder the South is now the playground of all sorts of foreign mercenaries and terrorists. Politicians from the South lack not only morals but are also deprived of brains.

Apophis;986185 wrote: Here in Africa, she goes back to live with her mum and dad, in the west, the white man pays the bills. So in a way, you're right. What about the many successful sisters who earn their money?:mad:

Apophis;986060 wrote: I couldn't raise another man's litter, but some men can. You have assumed every woman would sit at home and ask you for masaariif. Most Somali sisters are very capable of looking after their own children and will never ask you to support them.

SomaliPhilosopher;986177 wrote: For me the interface is totally messed up its like SOL on lsd Yes I have the same issue plus the double posting problems.

thefuturenow;986138 wrote: LOL. You had me at Hollywood. Brother, as Khayr noted, those are not benchmarks of progress to many people. Only to those who ascribe to a certain Baconite definition of progress. Sure, the material progress of the modern world makes life easier. Yet, look around. Observe the degradation of life itself. Loss of values, destruction of the family unit, rampant drug use, massacres, suicides, greedy business practices, oppression, etc etc. Some people do not call that progress. They identify material progress for what it is, a distraction from and a placation for the assault on traditional values. Also, understand the flow of history, intellectual and scientific advancements never stop. They just transfer from one people to another over the course of millenia. In essence, there is no new discovery, only improvements. Don't fall victim to the Western man's history lessons. History didn't start with the enlightenment and it will not end with Facebook. Those 'dark ages' are so called because it was the dark-er man who was making progress What do the Jewish people have to do with the evils you mentioned? Almost in every society they live, the Jews occupy the upper echelons of the social hierarchy. They are the professionals, leaders, and the brains of their host society. Sadly, it is mostly the Somalis and other Muslims who are have become synonymous with gang violence, thieving, fraud, drug trafficking, prostitution, suicide bombing, terrorism, and family breakdown. The Jews on the other hand bring up their children in the best possible manner, give them the best education, morals, and the confidence to become the next generation of entrepreneurs, scholars, and leaders. Even in the middle ages when the Muslim world was making huge scientific and social progress, the Jews were playing a major part of that Islamic enlightenment. Back then they were are also the advisers to Sultans, the doctors, the bankers, the traders, teachers, and scientists. If you think the Jews are affected by the social ills you mentioned, how come they are the leaders of the world and the most powerful ethnic group? Brother, drug addicts and those brought up in broken homes don't achieve the material and intellectual success the Jews have achieved and continue to achieve.

xiinfaniin;985957 wrote: From what I am hearing the Oodweyne folks are warming up to the current Mogadishu seduction. After all, the Madam at the top of Somalia's foreign office is one of their own. Even the Sand-Dwellers as Mr Waraabe's rhetoric manifests are getting excited about this prospect You are clueless Mr xiin. A quick revision of our history will show you how the Somalilanders have humiliated their own president Abdul Rahman Tuur (Alle ha u naxariisto) when he dared to flirt with Mogadishu and you are talking about a woman who is nobody in Somaliland.

@Oodka You made it very clear to them. I hope they understand it.