Question: What's urbanization without industrialization? Answer: Africa.

DoctorKenney;877052 wrote: UK Somalis are probably the most hated ethnic group in London...I've visited--but never lived in--London so it shocks me the amount of hatred these people receive. And it's funny cause the Somali's seem extremely indifferent to Ajnaabis. It's like we forget they exist and we associate only with one another. Very strange That seems to be the case everywhere we go. Somalis weren't even on the radar here in Canada (outside of Toronto at least) until bodies started piling up in Alberta.

“I said to myself, do I want people to think my family is full of terrorists? Do I want people to view my religion like we’re all terrorists? I wanted to fight back, so that’s one of the main reasons I joined [the Army].” One should not take up arms half way around the world to appease a few bigots.

We'd have to go a lot further in terms of creating social cohesion. Lebanon could easily be dragged back in to civil war at any given moment.

Affirmative action won't make things any better in Somalia. Federalism was supposed to prevent this sort of in-fighting over top seats. So long as everyone stays out of each others way (in respect to the states and regions), things will fix themselves.

Apophis;874867 wrote: It's been raining everyday for the last 10,000 years here in the UK so.... fingers crossed the Sun is coming tomorrow . It's already here.

*Ibtisam;874295 wrote: ^^^^What are you on about??? Did you read the post? Who are you asking? We both posted at the same time.

The ads are shallow and a reminder of how jaded american politics is. That said, no you don't have the right to vandalise property, public or private.

Alpha Blondy;874262 wrote: what nonsense! you atheist pig! I speak only the truth you Muslim corn dog! (Halal of course)

Alpha Blondy;874255 wrote: i wonder how MMA managed to track down blackflash? and what does this say about the monitoring of SOL MODs and ADMIN of the pages we visit. He's from Koronto, and travels through copper wires. If you're on the internet, he'll find you.

Wadani;874239 wrote: So Blackflash, not only are u an atheist but ur also an uncle tom. Interesting. I appease no one. All I've done is reply to a moronic post with two quotes. If calling out a racist makes me an uncle Tom, then that's your prerogative. Oh boy, you folks sure are hounding me these days.

Alpha Blondy;874147 wrote: Ms Moons, please give us somali quotes but in english, thank you. we have nothing to learn from white people. "I say to you quite frankly that the time for racial discrimination is over." -Jimmy Carter "More idio ts should just shut their mouths." -Chris Martin

Jacpher;874214 wrote: Tell that to the millions of Muslim black Arabs in ME who are still looked down for being descendants of slaves It's similar to the constitutional amendments made in the United States, they secure the rights of all, but haven't been interpreted that way in the past (i.e Jim Crow).

Jacpher;874206 wrote: Again the problem with that statement is that African slavery predates Islam and Somalia, as others pointed out. But somehow you want to convince us slavery existed in the palm of Islam/Arab/Somalis. I guess Arabs brought Islam to Indonesia, the largest Muslim majority country through slavery. Yes, but slaves in the Arab peninsula before Islam were predominantly middle eastern. Since a free Muslim cannot be enslaved, even as spoils of war, slave traders had to look further outside their domain as more populations converted. I'm referring to two groups with seperate agendas. There were the propagators of Islam and the entrepreneurial slave traders. The success of Islam in the region cut in to the latter's pockets.

Chimera;874004 wrote: The Somalis were a seafaring nation with links on multiple continents, unlike the Dinkas. The Somalis had city-states with individual armies, unlike the Dinkas. The Somalis had the most seaborne cities and towns engaging in commerce and trade, unlike the Dinkas. The Somalis developed large states with standing armies and imported the lastest gun-technology, unlike the Dinkas. The Somalis constructed massive fortresses and castles, unlike the Dinkas. The Somalis had prosperous walled cities capable of repulsing the Portuguese, unlike the Dinkas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Somalia The majority of Somalis throughtout history have resided in the hinterland and were pastoralists like the Dinkas. The larger states and sultanates didn't start developing until the middle of the millenium. That said, I do think the existence of these city states prevented the enslavement of nomads to some extent. The only real counter example to my arguement would be the Maasai, as they've thwarted plenty of slave raids from coastal Swahili speakers (who just happen to be Muslim btw). I think I'm being misunderstood here. I'm not linking the slave trade to Islam directly, just stating that Islam linked Somalis and other coastal Africans to their arab counterparts, and it was this relationship that was then used for the expansion of the slave trade.

I'm usually the first to criticize the architecture of new age Somalia, but not in this case. These are temporary bathrooms which will go a long way in promoting health and sanitation for these people.

Jacpher;873990 wrote: ^Who is 'I came' and 'we responded'. Is that you in multiple person? Perhaps multiple logins :D Ask the creator of this thread to cross reference our I.P addresses

Wadani;873987 wrote: Blackflash, Somalis weren't enslaved because they were and are a fierce nomadic nation, whom the arabs could never subjugate in their wildest dreams even if we had remained pagans. True Somali nomads are volatile, aggressive and xenophobic. It definitely wasn't a misnomer when the British deemed us to be 'The Irish of East Africa', after coming face to face with this proud warrior nation . A love of Freedom and an egalitarian ethos permeates the Somali culture, which precludes the possibilty of enslavement, especially by Arabs, whom mind you the nomads of yore held in low regard as can be seen from some of Sayid Mohamed Abdullah's poems. For heavens sake, he refered to them as 'naags', and you expect us to believe such a people could be our Masters? You got it twisted bro. Far being owned, Somalis themselves actively took part in the flourishing East african slave trade, keeping some of the captured for themselves and selling the rest to the arabs. The northern port city of Zaylac for example was a well established hub for slave trading, with it's importance waning after the British ban on the selling and buying of people was put in to effect. That's precisely why I used the Dinka as an example in my third question. They too were comprised of fierce warrior clans. RaMpAgE;873988 wrote: The amount of atheist's on this forum is disgusting, I don't understand how SOL can give them a platform to spread their ideas. Spread our ideas? I came online to find someone citing me from another website, and responded to his claims accordingly. There seems to be a general trend on this board. A member will make a remark about atheism/secularism. An atheist/secularist will respond and is then chastised for bringing up religion.

Jacpher;873973 wrote: ^ No one can crush a debate like an good atheist. Exactly. Thanks for proving my point. Muslim slaves were brought to the shores of America by Christians. Tell them Muslim slaves their 'religious status' should have spared them from slavery. Did you hear it whiz past your head?

Jacpher;873967 wrote: ^Were the Americans practicing Islam when they were loading the black slaves to the ships? Was the pharoah Msulim when he was taking hold of the slaves? I'm confused. I was under the impression that everyone already knows that much of the world has practiced some form of slavery in the past. The present topic at hand is why Somalis escaped relatively unscathed.

Jacpher;873965 wrote: Raamsade: MMA is as much guilty as Raamsade to comment on this topic Moderatorship is not censorship dee. The man has as much right as anyone in SOL to initiate a topic or reply to one. His participation on the forum does not cloud or diminish his judgement calls as you are suggesting. Apo: What 'powers' are you talking about here? I'm still confused. The man started a page and you're taking about a moderator power being used? What links MMA status as moderator to starting this page or is someone cry foul pre-preemptively? Atheists in full gear tonight to overprotect their fellow atheist . Waryaara ya'll giving away away the game by crying too early before it started. Protect me from what? The one valuable thing I've gained from that tabloid site over the years is that I no longer care for the opinions of others. I'll engage in debate, but the use of words like 'shameless' don't phase me.

Che -Guevara;873964 wrote: ^Slavery was flourishing before Islam, before the advent of Islam, Somalis were free people. How does that fit in with your claim? That's precisely what the second question touches on. Before Islam, there was no incentive for Arabs to look outside their own region for slaves. It was only until much of the region adopted Islam and restrictions were placed by prophet Muhammad that they began to look further out. In a way, Islam did too good of a job at reducing the impact of the slave trade early on.

Aaliyyah;873921 wrote: What an outrageous comment to make. black flash can you back your claim with evidence. I'll answer that request with three of my own (you probably know the answers to these): 1.Does the religious persuasion of a person play a role in how their viewed as slaves in Islam? 2.Under what strict guidelines can new slaves be acquired in Islam? 3. Why were entire Dinka tribes situated thousands of kilometers inland captured, while Somalis were generally left alone? The answer to these three questions will provide the basis to my claim.

I will admit that I'm shameless though. No matter how many times I promise myself to avoid the cesspool that is the Toronto Sun, I end up returning. I just couldn't ignore the lies being espoused by a particular moron. Heck, I was defending prophet Muhammad at one point.

:DI wasn't apologizing for anyone. I was making it clear that I have no motivation to defend Islam. Two other things. First of all, you should've taken the snapshot before the removal of the previous goof's disingenuous and hateful comments. As for the second part. Don't tell me you don't know why the Arabs passed up on enslaving their nearest Black African neighbours.