Xaaji Xunjuf;885058 wrote: Alshabaab with out the homicide bombings constant executions the killings of civilians could have played a major role in Somalia's governing system but they are not ready to do some serious compromises. As for the foreign mercenaries they aren't great either they committed crimes against Somalis they have destroyed the lives of many to.But Somalis accepted them because there is no other force that can defeat alshabaab other than Ugandans Burundians Ethiopians Kenyans. You're forgetting to mention that Shabaab has mercenaries within their ranks as well....Just look at Abu Mansur Al Amriki. Just think about how many innocent Somali civilians were killed by these foreign Shabaab Fighters

Che -Guevara;885042 wrote: Oba...I still support AS when it comes to cleansing foreign forces including AMISOM off our land. Like Zenawi's forces which I assume you were opposed to, their corpses are piling up. Apo....the sad thing for you AS will outlive these occupiers and you will still be looking for someone to defeat them. Maybe if we as Somalis, actually learned to govern our own territory---then we wouldn't need to ask foreign AMISOM forces to enter Somalia. I don't want AMISOM in Somalia either, but I'd much rather have AMISOM then your Shabaab buddies and their foreign fighters. You're against the foreign Ethios being in Somalia, but are you also against Shabaab's Arab and Pakistani mercenaries? Or are you a Somali "Nationalist" only when it suits you?

Apophis;884955 wrote: Yes, many rodents have abandoned the sinking Shabab ship These same rodents who were complicit in Al Shabaab's atrocities from 2008-2011 are now denouncing Shabaab simply because Shabaab has lost much of it's power recently. They have no principles, they just decide to support whichever side is "cool" at the moment. And then they decide to mask their hypocrisy by saying "A lot of innocent civilians were killed by AMISOM forces."----As if this was the stated goal of AMISOM! AUN to the innocent victims of Al Shabaab,

Alpha Blondy;883814 wrote: lol@adams, you pathetic, paternalistic, nanny-state socio-economic gigolo. you're a contortionist who'll say whatever to appease people. are you saying i'm like that greyjoy? he is a traitor no doubt and but at least its reassuring to know his policies on minorities are more sound than yours. Alpha you've already embarassed yourself. Just please stop

Xaaji Xunjuf;883071 wrote: Atirisho Puntland is fine for now but if you want to create a better Puntland and a better Somalia u need to solve the problems in Somalia now i am not asking Puntland to do all the work ofcourse not but they should contribute their part. Do you think Amisom forces can do everything no they cant Amisom can chase Alshabaab from major urban cities but who is going to fill the vacuum you need Somali troops. And Puntland has the most capable armed forces in Somalia so why not contribute. Puntland security must be upheld and we must continue to support the peace and stability in Puntland at the same time we cannot neglect what is happening south of Puntland. You are thinking about you're short term objectives Puntland needs to think about where somalia will be in the next 20 years. Saaxib, if Uganda, Burundi, and Kenya contribute troops to AMISOM, would you support the "independent" nation of Somaliland to also contribute troops to AMISOM's mission? I know Somaliland isn't a fully independent nation, but if they were to contribute troops to liberating Somalia, it would definitely be welcomed by the UN. Somaliland's military is very capable, and we need their help to liberate Southern Somalia What do you say?

Dr_Osman;882806 wrote: Why are people so against a strong puntland you do realize by doing that you are encouraging puntlanders to invest more and more in our security sector. As long as we believe there is a tangible threat to the people of puntland this won't stop and it will only continue to get stronger and stronger Brother, why wouldn't it be a good idea for the Puntland Forces to be integrated into the Somali National Army? If anything, Puntland should be very proud in being the leading Federal State in Somalia. The rest of Somalia is looking to follow Puntland's example, and if Puntland ignores the problems going on in the South, then what good is that for anyone? If the South is destabilized, then Puntland suffers as well. Having separate militaries in Somalia is a BAD idea.

labellavida;882152 wrote: Someone please give me some good advice so that I can pass it on to her. Preferably, advice from another woman bc all I see in here are men. How do you know whether I'm male or female?

labellavida;882141 wrote: First of all, this isn't about me. Secondly, my friend hasn't told/convinced him to leave his wife. It's all his doings so far. He said he'll leave her once he finds the right time. He also said many times that he doesn't love her.:rolleyes: Yeah....the man is toxic

Don't even attempt to convince this man to leave his wife btw... Your relationship with this man is haraam. And if you actually marry this man, then how do you know he won't leave you for someone else? He already proved that he has a lack of respect for his own wife, what makes you think he'll respect you?

Hey, if he agrees to marry a 2nd wife, and everyone's cool with that.......win-win for everyone :cool:

Somali philosopher;882065 wrote: ^^ btw how and who do you think will come up with the bottom up nation building and implement it. Somalia needs a revolution but we are too uneducated and tribalistic to agree on a solution. I don't blame Somalis In Somalia for being tribalistic, qabil has been there for them when government wasn't. But I do for ppl in the diaspora That's the hard part. Finding like-minded, educated and dedicated Somali men to implement such a program. If you can find these individuals and get them on the same page, anything is possible. I don't blame Somalis for being tribalist as well. They've lived their entire lives with that identity and in the absence of a strong Somali State they would understandably identify with their clan instead of their nation.

Xaaji Xunjuf;882014 wrote: Doctor another question earlier u said u want a new Somaliweyn what do you consider Somaliweyn I don't believe in working towards Somaliweyn. The last 21 years of Civil War have made this concept almost irrelevant. However, I believe in working towards the implementation of a comprehensive nation-building program, and I don't think this program should simply be confined to South Central Somalia. This program can be implemented from Garissa to Bosaso to Jigjiga to Kismayo and everywhere in between. All Somalis suffer from this problem regardless of their clan affiliation or which passport they might hold. The Somalis of Jigjiga are technically Ethiopian citizens, and that's totally fine. However, if true stability and peace does return to Somalia, and Somalia--over the course of a few generations--becomes a stable and prosperous state, then it's an entirely different ball game. I'm not advocating that the NFD and Eastern Ethiopia be annexed into Somalia. I don't even think it's possible, nor is it desirable. But perhaps regional integration can occur soon after and "national borders" between these Horn-African states grow to become irrelevant. Either way, this "Somaliweyn" issue should be forgotten for now. It's not the time to talk of such issues. Obviously, I would prefer for all Somalis to be united under One Flag, but it's unrealistic and may even be counter-productive.... It's like advocating Somalia send men to outer-space when we can't even feed our own people! What we can work on--at least in the next few decades--is to establish a strong, functioning Somali State. Everything else comes secondary.

Haatu;882012 wrote: The magical number again Do you lot just throw around the word or something? It seems as if 50 000 is XX's favorite number :cool:

Alpha Blondy;881994 wrote: waar i'm done discussing politics with you. you showed promise but your delusional and out of touch with the reality on the ground. What did I say in the above post which is "delusional"? What's delusional is thinking that Somalia is quickly marching towards stability and progress--when clearly it isn't right now.

LOL yeah that pretty much confirmed it. Btw, I see nothing wrong with Atheists living in a Muslim country as long as they don't make their Atheism public ...But that's just my personal inclination. I could be wrong here

Apophis;881981 wrote: No, I think they should be stoned and harassed. We can't allow these people to spread their superior logic and reason to our children and women. Before you know it they'll be saying man evolved instead of accepting the truth which is, man was created from play dough. ^^I'm thinking you may be an Atheist....?

Xaaji Xunjuf;881976 wrote: ^^ Not true Somaliland and Puntland are in a border dispute , puntland is claiming Somaliland territory because they believe some of the residents of the eastern sool and eastern sanaag region share a common tribal lineage with the Puntland tribe . You are correct maybe a conference will not solve everything but it will send a message that the past is the past and a new future is about to be constructed together. You just proved one of my main points saaxib (what I underlined). No new Somali future can be constructed until we clean this problem out of our system. We need to do some deep soul-searching as a nation.

Xaaji Xunjuf;881959 wrote: Doctor Kenney i really have to say ur kind of naive u want to solve something but u are turning ur face away from the root cause of the problem distrust between the Somali communities clans and even at subclan level. Dibu heshisin is a word u heard the past 21 years by Somali politicians but it was never done ever in Somalia. There has not been a reconciliation conference in Somalia well they held several reconciliation conferences in nairobi addis djbouti Eritrea Yemen Egypt but non of them were a success. Civil war might be over Kenney but there distrust how do you solve that i ask you forget about a conference how are u willing to build bridges between the different communities. Well if you actually read what I wrote earlier, I addressed all of this. The clan wars of the 1990's are long-over but that doesn't mean everything is alright again. How do you know these clan-wars won't be initiated again? Aren't the battles between Somaliland and Puntland forces nothing more than petty clan wars? I don't care for some reconciliation conference. Conferences don't solve deep-rooted problems. Conferences have men who speak about a "United Somalia"....but behind closed doors they engage in tribal behavior.

I'll give you another example: The Somali sub-clan which inhabits LasCanood. I can't name the sub-clan's name because it's against forum rules. But you get which clan I'm talking about. You would think that they would agree with one another--after all they're from the same subclan. And don't Somali's think of themselves as their sub-clan instead of as Somalis? Within this ONE sub-clan: 1. Some of them are pro-Somaliland. And they favor being part of an independent Somaliland. 2. Some of them are pro-Puntland. And they favor being part of an autonomous Puntland. 3. Some of them are labeled as "Reer Khaatumo'. And they favor Khaatumo being it's own Federal State. 4. Some of them are Unionist, and would like to see a structure similar to 1960's Somalia. That's just ONE sub-clan, and they can't even agree on something as basic as this. This is common ALL across Somalia. Even within sub-clans, there are fierce disagreements and an inability to cooperate. How can any civil administration be possible in such an environment? Obviously, I am not making this personal to any clan at all, as I am technically a "member" of this sub-clan myself, even though I don't really care for these meaningless tribal labels and see myself only as a Somali.

Why would the concept of Somaliweyn be unrealistic? It is very possible and it can be achieved inshallah....just not within the next century of course. However, politics is a long game. Nation-building is a long game. Germany didn't become a powerful and prosperous nation in one day. If we embrace the self-determination of clan enclaves, this could lead to further problems down the road. It will certainly lead to armed conflict, such as the one which occurred between the Somaliland militia and the Puntland militia. In Somaliland, the people of Awdal region as well as the people of Sool region and Sanaag region do not want to be a part of an independent Somaliland. Within Puntland, there are protests in cities such as Qardho, where many even want to secede from Puntland itself. Puntland today is less stable than it was 5 years ago. When you set up clan-based fiefdoms, what will eventually happen would be land-grabbing, border conflict between Somali federal states, and an extremely unstable Somalia. We have to aim high as a people. And these are nothing more than band-aid solutions to serious problems

Complicated;881905 wrote: Oba, If we follow your logic and that of XX then one can only conclude not only is the title of this thread erroneous but also distorting history. I cannot defend the ethnic persecution, extrajudicial killings, nepotism, corruption, and the gross economic mismanagement the government of the time practiced but, what is as much in the same practice as that of the said government is the sort of generalisation and misleading quotes some throw around everywhere. Lets me ask you guys a question, given the choice which decade was better off for most Somalis 1980-1990 or 1990-2010? Well, technically 1990-2010 was a "worse" time for the Somali nation. However, what led to this mess was Siad Barre's policies. Even though Somalia was "stable" in the 1980's, there was still clan-persecution, extrajudicial killings, economic mismanagement and corruption as you've said. There are many older Somali men who personally suffered under Siad Barre's regime, and none would want to go back to that time in our history.

Alpha Blondy;881904 wrote: Dr. Keeney, an excellent, timely and thought provoking thread I must say. i completely agree with you. things have to change and when you've reached the lowest depths of the abyss, the only way is up my brother. we must do ALL we can to find solutions to the problems that hinder the collective will of our people. right now, the priorities as you've already mentioned must be put on security and stability. i'm sure you're familiar with Hobbs notion of High and Low Politics. Somali politics, particularly Somalia has been based on High Politics and issues to do with sovereignty- although there is a lack of sovereignty as Somalia has developed a tendency to inviting external forces in aiding the threat of islamic radicals. in terms of security, there appears to be intermittent periods of security and no functioning internal security apparatus etc!. thus Somalia's political landscape is not guided so much by general principles of existence by creating a peaceful and harmonious living for its citizens but a desire for the participants to survive politically in response to the changing circumstances. SECURITY is absolutely imperative and only through a strong internal security apparatus can the the next set of pre-conditions needed for a viable transitional towards development be achieved. Brother, what we need is something more than just stability. We need to completely rearrange the Somali thought-process. Here in the United States--a stable country--the Somalis are still up to their silly games. They still adhere to the archaic tribal structure and they can't seem to get along based on this. The Somalis in Europe and Canada are no different. In fact, there's the infamous example of the Somalis in Toronto, Canada. The D-Block and H-Block Somalis often even pray at different mosques, eat at different restaurants and marry within their own tribe. As long as the Somalis think like this, we will forever be at Ethiopia and Kenya's mercy, and they would be able to divide our population and cause internal strife at will. The minds of the older Somali generation is already corrupted. They're a lost generation. We could at least start working on the children.

Xaaji Xunjuf;881839 wrote: You are not looking for solutions waryaa you just want to ignore what happened and move on where did various somali tribes came together and made peace ever since 1991. It never happened so if you wanna solve the root cause of all the problems the civil war as we know it ended but there is still a cold war there is still distrust and animosities between the communities that's why you have 4.5 clan fiefdoms and thats why you have neighboring countries finding deep holes in ur societies. Thats why you're leaders don't trust each other that's why the international community plays a huge role in what happens in Somalia. Tribalism is not the core issue here tribalism existed before the civil war but Somalis never ever experienced before colonialism that they can or should share a state the notion that wax ba la wada leeyahay is very unfamiliar with Somalis that's why they introduced something called clan federalism waxba la kala leeyahay. The problems u need to tackle is why don't Somalis trust each other why would they trust a Kenyan over their fellow Somali or an Ethiopian or an ugandan. Was it the former dictatorial regime or is it because modern Somali statehood was just an experiment that failed. Somalis need to face the realities on the ground not run away from it. How can we move on as a nation if we can't even work together on the most basic issues? Something like national security, which Somalis should be fully capable of ensuring can't even be accomplished due to disagreements. Somalia--as a nation-- can't even keep control over their own territory. Somalia--in it's current predicament--will look like Afghanistan in a few years, at best. The President of Afghanistan Hamid Karzai is barely capable of holding the country together, while different ethnic militias square off while at the same time the Taliban is causing massive damage. Do you not see the problem here? Afghanistan is no longer a nation, but just a land of competing ethnic/tribal groups---Just like in Somalia. The only reason why there's some semblance of governance there is due to the 100 000 heavily armed NATO troops protecting this weak Afghan "government". As I said before, every 1 year of destruction requires at least 2 years of nation-building. Afghanistan was a stable state until the Soviets invaded. And because no comprehensive nation-building took place afterwards, Afghanistan will never know real peace. Once NATO withdraws from Afghanistan, it will collapse on itself. And when AMISOM withdraws from Somalia, it also would collapse on itself. You even said to me earlier: Xaaji Xunjuf;881839 wrote: In Somalia the civil war of tribes is long over you are living in the early 90s there is no real proper reconciliation conference needed for long lasting peace to be reached.Puntland is a peaceful entity galmudug is peaceful so is ximan iyo xeeb aswj and Mogadishu. Those regions are not peaceful at all. They're not even capable of controlling their own territories. We need more than just a conference.

It took the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) 23 years to build a functioning Islamic State. It took Vladimir Lenin decades to transform and take over Russia. It took Ho Chi Minh decades to take over Vietnam. What we see in the news about Somalia can be classified as superficial developments, and the civil war shows little signs of abating. Somalia has a lot of potential, the potential to be the richest nation in Africa. It has the potential to be a major force in the region, capable of providing a decent standard of living for it's citizens. However, we've allowed men like Siad Barre and Aidiid to destroy the very fabric of our nation. We need to start all over again, and although the existence of a prosperous Somalia is unlikely in the next 50 years, we should still move forward and build it. We can ensure a decent standard of living for every Somali family inshallah. Thomas Jefferson never witnessed a prosperous and powerful USA. However, he took actions which ensured America would be a superpower in a few generations. Even though he knew he would never see a powerful USA, this didn't stop him from working towards that goal.

Chimera;881800 wrote: “If you teach a boy, you educate an individual; but if you teach a girl, you educate a community." Okay fine. Getting through with the logistics of this program is going to be a real problem. Somalis can't seem to agree on anything, and to find 100 like-minded patriotic Somalis would be a very difficult achievement