I really do feel sorry for Somalis living in Toronto. I've been to Toronto more times than I can count, and I do have family and friends living there. And the racism against Somalis in Toronto is unreal. Even the ones who don't openly proclaim their racism, harbor their hatred for Somalis deep-down. Even the Jamaicans, who are statistically far more violent than Somalis and who have higher crime rates than Somalis, look their noses down at Somalis and treat them like they're inferior. It's unbearable. This is why many (not all) Somalis subconsciously choose to only associate with fellow Somalis, as a defense mechanism. Whether you choose to admit it or not, it's the reality.

Doesn't Chimera deserve a spot on this cabinet?

Tallaabo;986762 wrote: I hate to hear the question you asked: "what have Somalis contributed to the world?" Indeed on more than one occasion I was harassed with this question by the white people who added that we Somalis only contributed terror and illegal immigration to the world civilisation. We are a waste of space and so we should commit mass suicide, don't you think? Tallaabo, that's the thinking of your white colleagues who probably haven't contributed much to the world other than drinking beer on a Sunday morning and watching a football game. They have no right to claim credit for what a white scientist invented 50 years ago, or what a white Astronaut might have accomplished....if they themselves amounted to nothing I actually knew this German man who used to go on for HOURS bragging about how great the German race was, and how many things they've invented, but he couldn't give me an example of one thing that he himself accomplished in his life. If you are a Somali Muslim, and you are well-educated, and you have a career which you try your best to excel in, and you reflect professionalism, then you've done the best you can do. And if millions of us do the same thing we can really make an impact on our surroundings.

Apophis;986713 wrote: Somalis are engaging in trade all over the world; this is what builds civilisation and all the other advancement you want. Time is the factor. It's hard to not recognise the small changes that are vital in building the aforementioned. It doesn't all have to happen in your lifetime. Exactly, each person focuses on what he's talented at. He should focus on improving himself to the best of his ability, and a whole society of people with this hard-work mentality can achieve great things. All we can do is focus on ourselves and try to influence those who we know. I hope that after several generations, the Somalis can have a great claim on scientific innovation and expertise. But we have to get the ball moving now, so that in 100 years or 150 years we would able to accomplish great things. Everyone has a role to play

I can tolerate different opinions. And I've done so many times on this forum. Just look at my post history. But I refuse to tolerate blatant insults against Somalis and obvious attempts to derail the topic. I was saying that Muslims nowadays should have the drive to excel in the scientific and technical fields. But then he comes along and decides to trash the entire Somali race as well as the Arabs which has nothing to do with this topic at all. Then he goes on a tangent claiming that these scientists were "mostly Persian". As if it matters what race these men were. I'm done with him. He's not worth talking to. And I see no benefit in his discussion.

Please do not feed the troll, Do not feed the troll. He's successfully altered the entire course of this discussion towards debating racial differences and why certain races achieve more than others. This has nothing to do with anything and we have no vested interest in continuing such a frivolous exercise. I see absolutely no point in this at all. Let it go brothers,

I couldn't decide between Apophis or Safferz, as I clashed with both of them many times over the year. So I voted Safferz, definitely seems like the right choice

Saaxib, I doubt that if Somali soldiers were being paid 1028 dollars a month, it would change anything. We're not even capable of paying our own troops. Most of the money that's allocated towards our Army "mysteriously" disappears into the pockets of corrupt politicians and generals. There's no way in hell that a Somali soldier would ACTUALLY be paid that kind of money. We've become so unbelievably corrupt that our own politicians worry about the size of their bank accounts instead of the security and well-being of their nation. And Somalia will forever be a wretched nation unless we get rid of these lowlifes from politics

Safferz;986552 wrote: It's the same... what shapes the relationship between stepparent and stepchild are the circumstances and context, there's nothing inherently closer about a stepfather's relationship with his stepkids than a stepmother's. Factors like how old the children are when the stepparent enters their lives, whether they live in the same household with the stepparent, how involved the parent that does not live with the child is in the child's life, how the stepparent treats the children, etc are what determines how kids respond to their new stepparent. I think you're completely right in cases where a woman remarries with young children, and the father is not so involved so the stepdad takes on the father's role, but that's not always the case. A stepparent will never replace a biological parent unless the parent is not a part of the child's life, it's just a completely different relationship. Your cousin should be aware of this, too... trying to 'replace' the ex-husband when it comes to his children and be the 'real dad' can cause resentment and tension between the three parents, but aiming to be the best stepfather possible is important. Re: thefutureisnow, I understood his posts not so much as suggesting background checks/independent verification of a person's character, but explicitly saying men do not owe explanation of their past to a potential spouse. The comments on "not showing your hand" and a spouse as an enemy were quite strange and hopefully his viewpoint represents a minority of how Somali men see relationships. Good luck to your cousin DoctorKenney, he sounds quite mature and has clearly thought this through carefully. I hope the rest of the family will come around soon and respect his decision, she will soon be a part of the family too. Well the reason why it'll be not so tricky for my cousin to take on the role as the "Father" of these 2 young children is because the actual biological father is non-existent in their lives. He plays no role. He---like so many other Somali men---decided that it was more important that he moves to another city, find a new woman, and start a new life. He actually has no guilt that he has 2 biological kids waiting for him in America. And this is all too common in our community. It's easy for a man to pack his bags and start all over, but near impossible for a woman. Because she's left with the 2 kids, not him. He might as well pretend that he has no children at all. But really, being a step-dad to them is not too tricky especially since the 2 kids are both extremely young. I doubt they even have the ability to read yet! But being a step-mom on the other hand....is much different. Unless the biological mom is dead or plays zero role in her kids lives (which is bizarre and almost never happens), then you would have to take a back-seat in the upbringing of this child. Kids naturally have a different relationship with their "father" then their "mother" InshaAllah they do respect his decision, and it looks to me that he's gonna go through with it. And I have no doubt that she'll charm the family and win them over as allies, sooner or later

Okay, nice job going on a tangent that has nothing to do with what we discussed, and nice job overlooking my mention of Ibn Nafees, an ARAB Muslim that I mentioned in my previous post, and this is just someone I named off the top of my head. And whether these men were Persian or Arab or Turkish or something else doesn't change anything. And to deny Ibn Haytham and others, who were undoubtedly devout Muslims, reeks of your hypocrisy and hatred. So for you to ignore the literally thousands of Muslim scientists, teachers, and researchers over the centuries and then insult me and the others on this forum due to our being Somali, is unacceptable. I specifically said that all of us, including Somalis and Arabs, should strive towards scientific expertise. Moderators, can you remove the previous post. As it has nothing to do with the discussion and it deliberately insults Somalis as a race, and Arabs as a race.

Exactly, we have the ability to be Masters in our scientific fields while at the same time being God-conscious individuals who have strong moral values and beliefs. We can do both. But Muslims today have neither. We don't manufacture anything in our countries, our universities are not the best in the world, and we Muslims don't even practice our religion (most of us don't even pray) So we're in a lose-lose situation right now. We're not where we should be. But if we looked at the examples of our predecessors, of the early Muslims....you will see that these men combined their scientific expertise with their Islamic piety. Men such as Al Khwarizmi (mathematics) and Ibn Nafees (biology) and ibn Haytham (physics) and others. I acknowledge that theres something wrong, but there is no need to cosign with the likes of Dawkins and his other Kaffir clowns and start repeating his arguments. Dawkins does NOT want what's best for us, and he only mentioned these as a point of criticism against us. He is an open bigot who admitted that he hated Islam but yet he's never read the Quran, not even once. Do not take him seriously. He's an expert on evolutionary biology but he's absolutely clueless on history, politics, physics, and other fields. And theres no need to take him as an authority over anything. He should stick to what he knows and leave the rest to others.

Xaaji Xunjuf;986480 wrote: Doctor Kenney shabaab is trying the same tactics of Taliban in 2005 Taliban freed themselves from muhajurun Alqaeda affiliates and became a tight control entity and exhausted NATO and forced the great US to the negotiations table to deal with the Taliban. Alshabaab wants to exhaust Amisom, Alshabaab is a threat to Kenya but Alshabab is not a direct threat to Western interests Like Alqaeda and taliban were. But the Americans have never brought Al Qaeda to the table. And Al Shabaab is a direct affiliate of Al Qaeda. It's the same thing. You can't compare the Taliban and Shabaab because the Taliban have more local interests (controlling Afghanistan) and aren't focused so much on bombing foreign countries in Europe/America/parts of Asia. Shabaab on the other hand, directly threatens countries like the U.K. and the United States, and they make it clear that they're in a state of war with them. You can manage the Taliban. You can't manage Al Shabaab. Even the Islamic Courts of 2006 were a much better alternative and could have been brought to the negotiating table.

Safferz;986512 wrote: That's quite the pessimistic outlook on our men. That hasn't been my experience so I don't agree with you, and I know enough stand-up guys to prove your generalization false. Besides, a man who is serious enough to discuss marriage with me but refuses to be open about his divorce is a huge red-flag for trouble and an indication NOT to marry him. On to the next... Maybe he's indicating that you should get the other side of the story (the wife's side) and you should also ask neutral sources about this man, what's his character, is he an upstanding individual, etc. Background checks are crucial

Safferz;986484 wrote: Is there more to their objections, or are they fixed on the idea that she's been divorced and that your cousin absolutely must marry a woman who has never been married before? Sometimes people who have never been in relationships before can be naive about relationships/marriage, so make sure that your cousin fully understands what he's getting into and how things will be once the initial excitement and infatuation wears off. Children complicate the situation further because there will always be an ex in the picture, as he and his ex-wife are co-parents for life. Personally I'm open to marrying a divorced man, but I would want to have long, honest discussions about the circumstances of the divorce, why his previous relationship failed and why he feels this one will be different. Sometimes two people just can't make it work together and it happens, but other times there are men and women with real, personal and personality issues that make it difficult to continue a relationship with them, so I would have to be certain it's not the latter. I'm not so sure about children because at this point in my life I don't want to be a parent, but I wouldn't be opposed to being a stepparent in the future. You get kids without the inconvenience of pregnancy, labour and stretchmarks dee Well they have nothing against the character of this woman, as she's an all-around amazing person. But they dislike the idea that she's far more experienced than he is. They feel as if it's unfair. My cousin's never had a serious relationship, while this woman has been in an actual marriage before. And they say that it only makes sense to marry a woman who's on the same level as him. Well, he totally understands, I explained to him that not only would he marrying a woman, but he will be simultaneously adopting her two children as well. They go hand-in-hand. He see's this woman as an ideal wife because she already has experience when it comes to raising a family, she's far more mature now, she's still beautiful, and that she's totally capable of giving birth again to more children. And not only that, she'll be more motivated to keep the marriage strong, as she definitely wouldn't wanna be divorced twice. LOL But being a step-dad and step-mom are completely different. The kid will never be truly attached to his step-mother the way he's attached to his real mother. But when it comes to step-dads, then it doesn't matter. I've seen a dozen examples of step-fathers raising children, and the kids actually look at him as their real Dad

But then Al-Shabaab shot themselves in the foot in September, when they attacked that Shopping Mall in Kenya. This was worldwide news and reinforced the fact that Shabaab is a serious threat. There's no way that the world would allow Shabaab to control Somalia. Not after that stunt in Nairobi. So the Americans, Europeans, Chinese, Japanese etc. are gonna pour in billions of dollars to make sure that Shabaab never gains a stronghold in Somalia. If that means recruiting 30 000 more troops or whatever, then so be it. African Mercenaries are cheap by Western standards anyways, and hiring them to occupy all of Somalia shouldn't cost too much.

There's no reason to think that humans can't materially progress while keeping our morals and values intact. The problem with the West is that they mastered material progress (mathematics, sciences) but their morals and values declined in the last 100 years. We can do both, we can be scientific experts while also being pious Muslims. It's very possible and it's been done many times In fact, I'm going to quote an excerpt from Sayyid Qutb's book "Milestones" on such a topic. Qutb makes a lot of mistakes in some of his writings, and he's not perfect, but I do admire many of his ideas and he was a very eloquent man. I'm gonna underline the noteworthy parts. Thus, only Islamic values and morals, Islamic teachings and safeguards, are worthy of mankind, and from this unchanging and true measure of human progress, Islam is the real civilization and Islamic society is truly civilized. Lastly, when man establishes the representation of God on earth in all respects, by dedicating himself to the service of God and freeing himself from servitude to others, by establishing the system of life prescribed by God and rejecting all other systems, by arranging his life according to the Shari'ah of God and giving up all other laws, by adopting the values and standards of morality which are pleasing to God and rejecting all other standards and, after this, when he investigates the laws governing the universe and uses them for the benefit of all mankind, applies them to resources hidden in the earth in accordance with the obligation imposed on him by God as His vicegerent on earth, unearths the treasures and resources of food and raw materials for industries, and uses his technical and professional knowledge for the development of various kinds of industries, doing all these things as a God-fearing person and as a representative of God; and when his attitude toward the material and moral aspects of life is infused with this spirit, only then does man become completely civilized and the society reach the height of civilization. In Islam, mere material inventions are not considered as civilization, as a jahili society can also have material prosperity. In many places in the Qur'an, God has described societies of this kind, which have attained material prosperity while remaining jahili. A truly civilized society has both. It has material progress but it also has a strong moral basis. It affirms scientific knowledge and it's applications while at the same time submitting to Allah and putting your trust in him. And this type of society is the only real civilization, and the only society worthy of ultimate respect. Read what was underlined, as it is very important.

AfricaOwn;986414 wrote: ^^ It also depends on the age I think. An older man (40+) who has been married before as well is a better fit. That's definitely true, but it also depends on the age limit. I've seen young Somali women getting divorced at the age of 25 (after only 1 year of marriage, sometimes less) It's ridiculous to assume that these young women are gonna stay single for the rest of their lives. And it's only appropriate that they remarry a man who's close to their age. The amount of 20-something year old divorcees in the Somali community is staggering. It's way too high

What terrible news to hear. Allahu naxaristu to this young girl, and I hope her family can get through this

^^ Thats totally cool Africaown. Every man is different and everyone has their own capabilities. If you can handle it, then I will commend you for it. And if you can't handle it, then thats fine too. I'm not saying its easy. And our community definitely needs more people who have the patience and good character to marry divorcees/widows and raise her kids.

There is something very common in the English language (and I think all languages) where you praise someone for the sole purposes of bashing someone else. Parents, Teachers, and politicians are guilty of this. Richard Dawkins is guilty of this here, and to think that you didn't even notice Richard Dawkin's subtle insult at the entire Muslim community is not believable. If so, then he wouldn't have needed to mention the Muslims at all. He could have easily mentioned the Brazilians or the Ukrainians or the Angolans. But he specifically singled out Muslims. And instead of calling Dawkins out on his crap, you go along with him and agree with him in bashing the Muslims. You're a Muslim, play for your own damn team and stop buying into the arguments and rhetoric of Atheists such as Dawkins. Do not repeat his arguments and criticisms against Muslims. I have a million problems with Muslims too, but I would never trash a brother in front of a man like Dawkins, who's well-known for his opposition to us and our way of life. The same way how I would never trash a Somali in front of a foreigner (and I have a million problems with Somalis too) You could help us change our mentality without having to hold hands with a Kaffir such as Dawkins. But yes, you're right. The Jews are very affluent and successful in the sciences and mathematics. And I'll give credit where credit is due And no Tallaabo, I don't even identify with my tribe. Look at my posts in this forum, have I ever been a tribalist?

What is wrong with Tallaabo and his endless praise of Jews at the expense of his Muslim brothers? Is Tallaabo ready to bash the 1 billion Black Africans for not winning enough Nobel Prizes? Or is Tallaabo so incredibly defeated that he's willing to overlook the inconsistencies in his arguments? You cannot compare the Jews (a small ethnic group) with the Muslims (an enormous but disparate religious group). I've already said this a few times in this thread. Theres just too much variables at play here. The Jews have won more prizes than all of the ethnic groups in the world today. Be it the Japanese, the Kikuyu, the Germans, the Colombians. All of them. But instead of Tallaabo trying to research why that is, he decides to go all Robert Spencer on us and insults Muslims exclusively. As if Jews and Muslims are the only two people that exist What a defeated man he is.

Lol. We are Somali. Like it or not, people will get involved in your family life. But I told my cousin my side of the argument. I told him that I think its a fantastic idea. Whether he's actually gonna follow through with this is a different story And I would the same if I was in his position. I just hope he's as flexible as I am.

I agree, the whole situation is even disturbing to think about. But when it comes to marriage, everyone has an opinion on who they want their friend/relative to marry. As if the marriage would affect them in any way

This would have been an easy ordeal if my cousin had been previously married. But because this is his first real relationship, a lot of people are objecting to this. They deem it "unfair" and some people even have the nerve to say things like "This man is marrying someone he can do far better than". Which is unbelievably arrogant

Classified, Apophis is now trolling you. Don't give in. Don't feed the troll