Yes, Allyourbase, there are such things as "non obscure rulings" and "obscure rulings". The only thing we can do is take the rulings of religious scholars on scientific matters with a grain of salt. They are experts on Fiqh and Aqeedah only, but when it comes to secular knowledge then they are not authorities at all. And if they overstep their authority and make statements without knowledge about science, then it doesn't and shouldn't reflect badly on their rulings on Islam. And that ruling regarding breastfeeding someone in the aim of making them your Mahram, that's a bizarre understanding and is totally incorrect, and it is refuted by the Sahabi Ibn Umar: Al-Muwatta Malik (Volume 2, Hadith 603) Ibn Umar said: “There is no breastfeeding except for the one who is breastfed in infancy; there is no breastfeeding for one who is grown up.” If Uthaymeen or Ibn Baaz take their own understanding of something, and get it completely wrong. Then that's on them. They made a mistake, and I don't care to justify their mistake or appease it. They are not astronomers, and they are experts on Fiqh, that's it. And sometimes these men repent from their mistakes a few years later, and denounce their earlier statements, such as in the example of Ibn Baaz. It doesn't really prove anything. These men were correct at times and incorrect at times. If they were correct, then alhamdulilah. If they're incorrect, then that's on them, and may Allah forgive them for their errors.

Kool_Kat;990621 wrote: She's 27, divorced with two kids! I can see how that might make the family raise an eyebrow or two. With that said, waxaa iga dagi la' 28 year old man whose never been in a relationship! LOL It's not uncommon here in North America to find a 28 year old Somali man/woman who's never been in a relationship. Many Somalis are like that actually. Sure, some of them might have messed around a few times in their youth, but they've never been in an actual, concrete relationship. And the ones who are religious (and my cousin is religious) often never get into one until it's time for marriage. And I've noticed that a lot of Somalis tend to be in relationships when they're 18, 19 or 20 years old. But as they get older, most of them become single throughout their mid-twenties. I see a LOT of single men and women who are 23-27 years old. It's a strange pattern that I've noticed.

Again, AllYourBase is doing something which I already criticized in the previous page. That you can't find some obscure ruling by an Individual Sheikh and then claim that it is the view of all Muslims. These men are not infallible and even men such as Umar bin Khattab made mistakes and were prone to making errors. What's infallible is the religion of Allah. But men and women are definitely prone to making errors. This is something we all agree on. So the strange statements by someone here and there shouldn't be taken as proof of anything. And their opinions only matter when it comes to religious rulings, and nothing else.

There are rulings when it comes to following men based on their religious knowledge. And rulings when it comes to following them based on their secular knowledge. I won't go to Ibn Baaz when I have a question about chemistry or physics, and I actually never even mentioned Ibn Baaz in my post. And regarding his claim that the Earth is stationary and is orbited by the Sun, he was heard and his followers were heard denying he ever believed that, or that his words were taken out of context, or whatever. Men are allowed to make mistakes, and repent from those mistakes, and its obvious that he never believed in this when he died. And the whole "suckling" argument was refuted by Al Munajjid when he proved (through Surah 2:233) that this ruling only applies during the first 2 years of your life. After that, its not possible to breastfeed a grown adult. Right now we're talking about rulings, and Wizard claiming that seeking scientific knowledge is forbidden in Islam, which I stated is false. And in Islam, individual Sheikhs are never taken as an authority (on religious rulings). What's taken as an authority is the CONSENSUS. ie. What they all agree on, and then cross-reference on whether their beliefs are in accordance to the evidences. Each individual person is prone to making mistakes, which is why we look towards what they collectively believe, and hope that their collective beliefs are correct.

Khayr;990809 wrote: Guj,Wingless and OffBase If you don't have a clear and concise point to be made, then stop trolling. Your shallow knowledge of the Deen is clear us. You just recycle the rhetoric of the average identity-less person. You don't know your own history, so you recant and preach the history that Google and Facebook has taught you. Bro, the worst is when they attempt to pass their shallow knowledge of the Deen as fact. And then they try to deceive common Muslims to think like them. I recall once I witnessed a Man trying to convince this 14 year old Somali girl (who didn't know any better) that in Islam, it's permitted to have sexual relations with animals (I know, it's disgusting) Naturally, the young Somali girl was awestruck, she didn't know any better, and she didn't know how to respond. I had to step in and respond, and refute this coward, putting him in his place. But this type of stuff goes on everyday in America. People lie to those who are vulnerable, and the vulnerable ones don't know any better. It could be that they even lead a few Muslims away from their Deen, based on premises that are nothing but lies. So I have no tolerance for people like Wing Wizard. Because he just made a blatant lie against Islam and then he tried to pass it off as a fact. And what if someone is viewing this forum, reads what he writes, and then becomes convinced of his arguments? Why should I respect someone who tries to mislead others from the Way of Allah through nothing but lies and false statements? If they want to debate, fine. If they have objections, that's fine. But if they make a blatant lie, knowing full well that it's a lie, then I am not obligated to treat them well.

Wing Wizard;990784 wrote: I know them inside out, brother. It's easy for me to post the countless fatwas banning the women drivers, basic scientific evidences like the roundness of the earth, or the teaching of the evolution theory (not that I believe evolution is anything other than hypothesis, but still it shouldn't be banned from being thought in schools). First of all, don't "brother" me. Second of all, anyone on the internet can go "fatwa shopping" and find strange statements from obscure Sheikhs, and then claim that this is representative of the countless thousands of Sheikhs worldwide. If you believe that this is representative of their collective beliefs, then give me evidence stating so. I can find Sheikhs claiming that Homosexuality is permitted in Islam. Doesn't mean it's true. It's such a basic and weak argument, that it doesn't require any thinking. The vast majority of scholars, men such as Ibn Taymiyyah, Qayyim, Abdul Wahhab, and even contemporary Sheikhs like Albaani and Al Uthaymeen and Al Munajjid state otherwise. But according to you, you want to overlook the vast examples stating otherwise and focus on a select few which confirm your bias. Pathetic.

Wing Wizard;990509 wrote: Religion, like race, has nothing to do with intellectual advancements, but Mr. Dawking has a point and his point is that the Muslim world is behind. Most of our muftis discourage science, technology and law for no reason except that the largest portion of these subjects were discovered or developed by Jews or Westerners. Ask anyone from the Middle East and Africa if they were thought evolution in high school and they'll tell you it's haaraam. Heck, I even remember this Somali teacher who once gave us an overview of the evolution theory in class III and all the students come against him; they almost stoned him to death. Most of our Mufti's discourage the studying of science and technology? What kind of BS is this? Fear Allah before He takes you to account for blatantly lying against these men. Not even the most extreme group you can think of, discourages the studying of science and technology. That is a lie, you don't know any of our Sheikhs, so it's best that you just stick to what you know, and avoid discussing topics you know nothing about.

Safferz;990389 wrote: He seems to believe Somalis *are* literate, just that they're literate in Arabic while illiterate in Somali, which is absurd. Never did I claim that Somali *are* literate. Most Somalis cannot read, and I never claimed otherwise. I'm just stating the obvious. Somalis can read the Arabic script, but can't understand the language. So perhaps a solution could be to change our writing system. For example, Ayan can read the Arabic script, but Ayan doesn't understand the Arabic language. So she can't be considered "literate" since she can't understand what's she's reading. However, Ayan can speak Somali, and understand Somali. But she has no familiarity with the Latin script (which Somali is written in) so therefore she's unable to read Somali. She would be considered technically illiterate. But if the Somali language was switched to the Arabic script, Ayan would now be able to read Somali fully. Now Ayan would be considered literate. Do you see how this little change can raise our literacy rate in one day? I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

Again Safferz, I've been to Somalia. You've been to Somalia. And almost anyone who's been to Somalia can attest to the fact that almost all of the little Somali children in Duksi can read the Quran in it's original Arabic. That is a fact. They might not be able to understand Arabic, but they can definitely read the script. Every Somali I know, religious and non-religious, Arabic speakers and Non-Arabic speakers, have some familiarity with the Arabic script and most of them can read the Quran in it's original Arabic (although they don't understand the meanings). So yes, "virtually all of Somalia" can read Arabic. All of these Somali adults have some familiarity with the Arabic script, and my experiences with the Somalis in Somaliland, Puntland and South-Central confirmed this to me.

Allyourbase, "saaxib"....you don't know me. So stop with the assumptions about any of us. And I never stated that the Arabic script should be adopted in Somalia. I'm saying it's a worthy alternative and it should be considered. Maybe Somalis can use the Osmaniya script. Maybe we should stick with the Latin script. Either way, we should really weigh our options and come up with a decision collectively.

Safferz is partially right. The literacy rate is generally measured in one's ability to read in their native tongue. But that's the entire point of this thread! Most Somalis in Somalia are unable to read Somali, because it's written in the Latin script, but virtually all of Somalia can read the Arabic script. So for the sake of conveniency, the OP is proposing that we switch the Somali language to the Arabic script, and this will make our literacy rate at least 90% literally overnight. A strange thing happened in Turkey back in the 1920's. Kemal Ataturk changed the Turkish language from using the Arabic script, to the Latin script. So the Turks, who were accustomed to reading their language in the Arabic script, were now forced to learn the Latin alphabet. The literacy rate in Turkey went from 80% to 0 in a single day. So the 40% figure is irrelevant, because this is something we can all acknowledge.

Maqane;990333 wrote: Because the majority can read and write the Alphabet doesn't mean they can easily adapt it. Based on my experience, I'd prefer and go for the Somali Latin script because it doesn't require much then the Arabic does plus I've learned the Arabic Alphabet by force and so did the majority of Somalis and maybe including you. My Mom "forced" me to learn how to read English when I was 4 years old. She also "forced" me to play sports. She also "forced" me to learn mathematics. But that's totally fine. But when Somali parents "force" their children to read the Arabic script, that's a totally bad thing. Wallahi I hate these double-standard Somalis, these inferiority-complex ridden Somalis, these self-hating people. Authubilah

Alpha Blondy;990329 wrote: Somali need to have a true expression of Islam. The only way this could be found is through the use of Somali language in translating the Quran in Somali. why do we need an intermediary (Arabic language) to pray to Allah? Why is it read and only accepted in Arabic? If all languages are understood by Allah then all languages should be used in the prayer ritual. the believer should have direct access and there should be faith for all with easy access! Somalis must go back to their origins and denounce all foreign ideas. we'll need to create a new sense of nationhood based on Somali folk-lore and customs of our ancestors. the conquerors have taken away our sense of self and replaced them with their own values and ideals. there is cultural genocide being committed in the Somali peninsula by Islam. the last pockets of what remains of our customs should be protected. Islam, not only calls for uniformity and but wants a strict regiment of values. this is impossible to enforce. we are a different people whose psyche has been hijacked by the hoarders who have come to our land and destroyed our way of life. since, we're a different kettle of people, carefully considerations must to be made when embracing a new ideology. we ought to carefully and meticulously consider it's merits, specially, if it of any use to ‘us’. but when this was spread by the sword and through economic embargoes via manipulative merchants, is it any wonder the people will accept without question? we have accepted Islam without question. are we the so called ‘noble savages’, who lack intellectuality and their own historical trajectories? we need to have a plurality-conscious society, where customs, religion and sociocultural values all have the same influence and weighing. Where emphasis is put on restoring our cultural origins before 'these' foreign ideas were instituted. Islam is Islam. There is no alternative version of Islam. Don't try to make our religion like Christianity, which has like 100 different denominations and styles. Second of all, we already have a Somali translation of the Quran. Almost every Somali house I've been to owns a copy. Third of all, we can make our dua's in any language we please. We can speak to Allah in any language, because Allah understands all languages. But we have to worship Allah only in Arabic. This is to preserve the original meanings and to safeguard it from being altered over generations, as well as to maintain unity between Muslims of different languages Fourth of all, you're claiming that Islam is "committing cultural genocide in Somalia". What is this "Islam"? Since when does Islam require that everyone behaves like an Arab? Everyone is different, people have their own cultures and languages, and Islam has nothing to do with that. You can be a Somali Muslim, or a Malaysian Muslim, or a Turkish Muslim. Since when does Islam hinder any of this? Since when does any Muslim have such a poisonous outlook over his own religion? Fifth of all, when you say "careful considerations are to be made before embracing a new ideology" and you're claiming that Islam was spread by the sword and by manipulative merchants in Somalia, then do you really want Somalis to be Muslims or are you someone who's against the existence of Islam in Somalia in the first place? Since when does any Muslim refer to Islam as a "foreign idea" when Islam is a direct revelation from the Creator of the Worlds?

Khayr;990313 wrote: DoctorK, They always use the metric of double standerism when they speak about Islam and Muslims. They have self hate written all over themselves. To Massa, they will always be HNs. These self-hating Somalis are generally Atheist Westerners, who are trying to do whatever they can to distance themselves from their culture, their religion, and their language. I don't think they should have the right to an opinion about what goes on in Somalia. They should just immerse themselves in Western culture, change their first name to Kevin or Patrick, and leave Somalis alone. I've dealt with them in real-life, and they are some of the most unpleasant people I've ever met

guleed_ali;990311 wrote: Sorry Dr. K I didn't want to make it sound that you were in the wrong. It's definitely easier said than done and you're more cautious than most people I know. I remember a Pakistani brother telling me about the whole handshaking ordeal and he said that he simply mentions it in the email after the confirmation of the interview that he doesn't shake hands. It's just like when someone with a germ phobia refuses to shake hands it shouldn't be anymore awkward for a Muslim to do it. We all have our difficulties and vices living in these societies, may Allah make it easy for all of us Allahuma Ameen... It's totally fine bro I'm actually going to see if your strategy works inshaAllah Ameen

Khayr;990309 wrote: Shouldn't the way you look as a representative of an opposing worldview (Islam) be enough of a deterent for co-workers to invite you to their get togethers. The Beard and Hijab are clear outward signs for muslims and are distinguishing features. As you grow towards Allah, so to the distance between you and them grows. Be friendly but don't be of them. That's what I thought myself! I wear a shirt and tie, but I also have a beard. And I have a Muslim name, so they clearly know that I'm a Muslim. But that doesn't deter them from inviting me to their functions or concerts anyway. I politely turn down invitations to places like rock concerts, bars, strip joints, or cottages. But when it comes to things like workplace get-togethers or something more benign, than I accept the invitation, and I show up (usually with one of my Somali friends who comes along)

"Go make it Arabic and impose Sharia on Somalis" You're a troll, get lost and stop littering this forum

You're right bro. In my workplace, I generally behave aloof and distant, and only engage in conversation when they approach me. But since my job requires a lot of interaction with coworkers, I tend to accept their invitations solely for the sake of maintaining good relations with my coworkers. I show up, say hi to a few people, and then I leave suddenly. Sometimes I bring one of my Somali friends just so he can keep me sane during the entire ordeal But I'll try your method and see how it works inshaAllah

I whole-heartedly believe that burahadeer and Allyourbase are nothing more than trolls, who litter this forum with their useless drivel. So you're telling me if Somalis adopt the Arabic script, this makes them "slaves to their Arab Masters" but if we adopt the Latin script, somehow we're not slaves to our European masters? You do realize that the Latin script is foreign to us Somalis as well right? So what's with the double standard? We can't use Arabic letters because....? Almost every Somali on this forum can read Arabic, I've been to Somalia and when I visited the duksi's, all of the little children could read Arabic. And the Somalis I visited had a harder time reading the Latin script than the Arabic script. You can visit the smallest village in Somalia, and virtually everyone can read Arabic. Allyourbase was caught in a bald-faced lie, he's speaking about things he knows nothing about. But you want to reject the Arabic script because it's foreign to us, and adopt the Latin script because it's not foreign to us?

I understand how you feel. Sometimes when my gaalo coworkers speak to me, my mind dozes off and it's hard to really form a connection with them. They bore me to death, and don't have the slightest interest in what they have to say. Especially on a Monday morning, when they talk about the parties they were at the previous weekend, how much they drank, girlfriend/boyfriend problems, talking about their cottage up in the woods, talking about the next Led Zepellin concert they want to attend, and a bunch of other topics. But you really have to deal with this, they are your coworkers, whether you like it or not. You should master the art of feigning interest in convos, that's what I did. When they talk about rock music or some other useless topic, make sure you mind doesn't doze off, and if they invite you to their get-togethers, it's best to show up. Whenever they invite me, I accept the invitation, I show up to the get-together, and then I leave within 30 minutes. All in all, the whole awkwardness and dullness in dealing with gaalo coworkers can be overcome with hard-work and paying attention. No matter how much they bore you, remember that dealing with them is necessary

Faroole has no vision and no leadership skills. I don't know why you would even consider him for re-election? Why would he deserve credit for stability when Puntland appears to be less stable today than it was a decade ago?

He was a great leader of South Africa and my condolences to his family and friends for this loss. But please let's refrain from saying AUN, R.I.P, or anything like that. It's rather distasteful and not a good idea.

Yes Xaaji, those photos you just posted portray exactly the situation my older Sister described to me. It's very unsettling. The people of Somaliland are pretty dead-set on independence and do not want any association with the Somalis of the South. Almost all of them.

My sister returned from Hargeisa and Berbera a few weeks ago, and the stories she told me really disappointed me, and I'm extremely disillusioned about this Somaliland issue now. She spoke with the regular people of Somaliland, and they almost unanimously want nothing to do with the rest of Somalia. They are really intent on having their own country that's separate from the rest of Somalia. And this is common from the politicians, to the young 20 year olds, to the little children, to the Sheikhs, to the businessmen. It's just awful. How are we going to unite as one nation when most of the 3 million people of Somaliland do not want to be a part of the Union? I personally want to see all of Somalia united.....all of it. But now, it really does look unrealistic to me. The people of the North don't want it. And 25 years of civil war really changed the mentality of the people in our country. And if Somaliland is a separate nation which allows Koonfurians to settle in and obtain citizenship, and vice-versa....then at least that would be a far better solution than what we're experiencing right now. I've met far too many "Somalilanders" who have this belief that Koonfurians should all be deported and mistreated, but then again, this might not reflect the opinions of all the people in that country. Radicals exist everywhere, and yes a Confederacy sounds like a worthy compromise

^Well that's why I said that both parties should compromise on this issue. Somaliland and Somalia. Somaliland should give up their independence aspirations, whereas Somalia should give Somaliland full autonomy to control their own affairs. Most of my clan is from Lascaanod, which is technically part of Somaliland, although I myself don't recognize Somaliland as an independent state If Somaliland actually gained international recognition and became a real country, would you support H-Block and other Somalis to move to Hargeisa and acquire a citizenship? Would you be fine with them starting businesses, going to school, and living in Hargeisa as regular citizens as long as they don't pursue political office? Because I've met many Somalilanders who hold the position that all Southerners should be deported from "their" country.