So the Canadian Somali Congress is part of this, right? This whole game where they attempt to shut it down as the self-appointed spokespersons of the Somali community? This entire story is really infuriating. I've never heard of the CSC spearhead any attempts to bring public awareness to the disaster in the Somali community of Toronto, where kids are dropping out at such high rates. They're reactionary P.S. LOL Are you kidding me? Somali students are mentored by Jewish professionals in exchange that we raise money to fund Jewish scholarships? Does the CSC know that this is a terrible rip-off? I'm struggling to wrap my head around this.

Safferz if you're in Canada, I suggest you directly confront the Canadian-Somali Congress. Contact that organization and give them your side of the story. Go directly to the President of that Organization and tell him of the benefits of his Task-Force, unless he himself is protesting the existence of the Somali Task-Force. Because the way I look at it, this Task-Force is about to be shut down. It's getting too much negative media attention and it doesn't look like it's dying down anytime soon.

So this man makes a living off of being their "token" Muslim. Whenever the Canadian Media wants a so-called Muslim perspective on an issue, they bring this man into the spotlight where he rambles on for 10 minutes about "Islamo-fascists" and the "Muslim Brotherhood is taking over Canada" If that's how this man makes his living, then he's just a person who's sold all his self-respect for a few dollars. I've listened to him talk. He's bumbling, self-contradictory, without coherent points, and he's in way over his head. But if he has zero credibility in Canada, then that's definitely good news.

<cite> @Safferz said:</cite> That's the one, DK. Basically his MO is shoring up panic among Canadians about "sharia law" creeping into Canadian society, so he tends to target things like Islamic schools, Islamic banking, the niqab, etc and appear during whatever given islamophobic episode is taking place in the country. Right now he's not so much in the public eye (and the Toronto Sun is a notoriously right wing newspaper no one cares to read, I should add), but if, say, Quebec is trying to pass controversial laws to affirm 'secular values' using coded xenophobic and islamophobic language? Tarek Fatah is everywhere. I find it fascinating that he's now become an ally of the Somalis against the TDSB Somali task force, but I suppose it makes sense when one considers his anti-immigrant and islamophobic stances -- for him, efforts made to help Somali children is the school board "accommodating" an immigrant Muslim minority, treating them differently from "regular Canadians," etc. It's perfectly rational and logically consistent with his public persona. I'm still shocked at how this man became the public spokesman of Canadian Muslims!? Wasn't he the Chairman of the Muslim Canadian Congress? He was the man who prevented Shariah Islamic Banking from being established in Ontario! The man who wants to ban Halal Slaughter of animals! I recall a few years ago, my Sister told me a story about how a school in Northern Toronto, had about 400 students that were Muslim. And the school had about 1500 students in total. So these students used to walk to the mosque which was 20 minutes away from the school, for their Friday prayers. Obviously, walking 20 mins to and from the Mosque as well as praying the Jumuah Prayer is going to make you late for classes, as anyone should know. So the School Principal made a deal with the local Imam, where the Imam would come to the school cafeteria at lunchtime and give the Khutbah then. And the students can pray their Friday Prayer in the school cafeteria! Great idea isn't it? The kids can pray and still make it to class on time. Tarek Fatah, on the other hand, the "Spokesman" of the Muslim community, wanted to block this from happening and claimed that the TDSB was being "infiltrated" by Islamists. He wanted to prevent these kids from praying in the cafeteria. Even though no one was complaining about it and it satisfied literally everyone Why aren't the Muslims in Canada disowning this charlatan? What qualifications does he even have to become the self-styled spokesman of the Muslim-Canadian community? Tarek Fatah is not an ally of the Somali community. Far from it actually. He only supports these protests because it supports his narrative, and he'd like nothing more than Somali boys and girls to be marginalized. And he's playing his Somali-Canadian supporters as fools

<cite> @Safferz said:</cite> What on earth are you talking about, Madoobe? Jim Spyropoulos isn't a racist, and no one is making "an extra buck" off the Somali Task Force. This article is a joke, and anyone familiar with the writer of the piece, Tarek Fatah, would understand why that is. LOLL Safferz Tarek Fatah!!?? Wasn't he that guy who claimed that the Toronto Police were "infiltrated by Islamo-Fascists" because the Police refused to prosecute a 17 year old Somali girl who threatened him online?? Wasn't he the man who claimed that Huma Abedin (Hilary Clinton's advisor) is an agent of the Muslim Brotherhood? Wasn't he the one who accused NOAM CHOMSKY of being an Islamist? How is Tarek Fatah even allowed to be taken seriously? He's a delusional old man who says whatever he likes, and I don't understand why this man is even given a voice!

This is good news to hear. Definitely a step in the right direction. There's plenty of competent women in Puntland who could serve their people well

TheFutureNow, yes....he is judging the merits of a theistic world-view But when he's asked to elaborate on his own world-view, he becomes silent. I'm telling you, the man is just an empty shell. I challenged him in another thread to elaborate on his world-view and values but AllYourBase was strangely silent and unable to articulate anything worthwhile.

TheFutureNow, That would be a little too difficult for AllYourBase to do. He has no principles and therefore he has no criterion for judging anything at all. AllYourBase is an empty shell. He's the type of person who's good at copying/pasting arguments from others but when he's asked about his own beliefs, principles, and values, he stutters and struggles to say anything coherent. P.S. Secularism is indeed a belief-system AllYourBase, as it grew out of the European sectarian wars of the 16th and 17th centuries, with the adamant belief that religion be separated from public life. So let's not even go there saaxib

<cite> @thefuturenow said:</cite> AYB^ Kettle. Pot. Black. Please do not pretend that atheism or secularism is some sort of neutral township where reason, rationality and tolerance operate. They are both theistic positions--in opposition to ancient and established religions. In other words mate, you're far more religious than most of us here. You just happen to believe in a different faith. LOL Should we also mention the fact that AYB is notorious for not having a single original thought in his mind? All he's been known for, on this forum, is copying/pasting OTHER people's arguments and then passing it off as his own. And then when he posts other's arguments, he reveals his astounding lack of knowledge of the most basic principles of Islam. And then he has the nerve to claim that he's the one who holds the keys to rationalism and logic.

Khayr, but I feel as if cutting your family member off wouldn't solve the problem in the first place! Because Amal Farah, when she was disowned by her entire family, all this has done was reinforce her wrong beliefs. She's been a Non-Muslim for what, 8 years now? 8 years! 8 years of not contacting any of your siblings, and being fully assimilated into British society with no traces of Islam or Somaalinimo inside her at all. I hate kufr. I think Atheism is the most arrogantly irrational position for any human to take. But if I was Amal Farah's cousin, I would've done something else. I would've shown her some Yasir Qadhi videos, or Nouman Ali Khan videos, and I would have attempted to show her the beauty of the Deen. I would show her that what she's doing is terribly wrong, and she's making a mistake by apostatizing. I know people who have left Islam because some clown gave them the wrong ideas about the religion. And then years later, they do independent research and then return to Islam. Kufr/Atheism is extremely dangerous. If you die upon Kufr/Atheism then you will never succeed in the Hereafter. But cutting off a family member will only reinforce their Kufr and would ensure that your family member stays upon his Kufr until he/she dies. And no one would want to see that happen

I'm pretty sure Safferz also has the "live and let live" attitude towards those she disagrees with when it comes to political and social issues (such as homosexuality, liberal democracy, etc.) I recall almost a year ago, when me and Safferz disagreed about economics. In that debate, I had a more free-market Neo-Liberal approach to Economics while Safferz had a completely different approach.....and she still had the "live and let live" attitude towards me. Respectfully disagreeing with someone is a great trait to have, and Safferz herself has exhibited this many times on this forum. She's someone with her own viewpoints, and it's hard to find someone who agrees with Safferz on absolutely every issue. (It's hard to find someone in this world who agrees with you on absolutely every single issue). But she's been able to handle this well, and I totally respect that

Johnny Apti I advise you, stop trying desperately to create some sort of debate on this thread. Your desperate attempts at trying to create some discussion about this, despite the fact that none of the SOL'ers want to engage in a debate, makes you look like a miskeen kid. Okay, so this woman decided to leave Islam, fine. If you haven't noticed, none of the SOL'ers here really care. Just move on with your life, and if you're still fascinated by this story, then mail this woman a gift.

AllYourBase, I think Safferz means that the Universe is so incredibly vast, that statistically and mathematically, it's certain that there exists other intelligent life forms in other galaxies in this universe. My position regarding this is, I don't know. It's certainly possible that other life forms exist in other planets in other galaxies. Allah knows Best. The Universe is so incredibly vast that even if other life-forms existed, we would never ever encounter them . There's just too much distance between us. The nearest star to us is 4 light-years away, which is an incredible distance. So it's one of those things we can speculate on, but that's it. It'll bring us no benefit at all

AllYourbase, I strongly suggest you do further reading on Dua's, the conditions for dua's being acceptable, in what circumstances Allah will grant dua's, and other similar topics. The books on these topics are numerous It'll thoroughly address your last question

<cite> @Safferz said:</cite> I get exhausted just reading the bickering between you two, cut it out guys We should be discussing the prospects of alien attack and other disastrous ends for humanity's first attempts to colonize Mars. Personally I think the colonists will disappear mysteriously like the English did on Roanoke Island . I sincerely apologize abaayo I'll stop this discussion. I've nothing more to say anyways

AllYourBase, you're claiming that the Qiblah change was not legislated by Allah. I'm saying that it was legislated by Allah, and even if the Prophet so desired it, then it was simply Allah granting and fulfilling the Prophet's dua's in a manner which is best for the Muslim community. Mecca is the focal point and a source of unity for all Muslims, if they're in Australia or if they're in Ghana. And I see nothing wrong with that. May Allah guide us all

Your argument is essentially you having an issue about Muslims being ordered to pray towards Jerusalem, and then Allah revealing a Quranic verse which stipulated that the Muslims face towards Mecca instead. Did you know that in Islam, alcohol was once permissible, then it was discouraged, then it was made forbidden? Did you know that in Islam, all of the 5 daily prayers originally consisted of 2 raka'ahs, but then afterwards the Dhuhr, Asr, and Isha prayers were doubled to 4 raka'ahs and then the Maghrib prayer was increased to 3 raka'ahs? While the Fajr prayer remained at 2 raka'ahs. If Allah legislated a new Qiblah for the Muslim Ummah to face, then who are you (as a Kaafir) to concern yourself with this? I am under no obligation to answer questions which you're obviously not interested in even seeking an answer for. And you had previous assertions which you couldn't prove so you withdrew it. You are a coward of the 1st degree Warya, leave me alone

So you're just going to make some far-fetched claims against Islam, based on your interpretation, and then you ask me to refute it?! Are you kidding me? Is this how far your arrogance has taken you? Why should I respond to such ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims? Your belief that the Qiblah was changed due to some perceived malice against the Jews holds no water, because Jerusalem is one of the holiest sites in Islam, and Masjidul Aqsa is a revered site and a point of pilgrimage for Muslims worldwide. And your belief that it was to appease the Jews also holds no water, because you have NO FACTS AND NO EVIDENCE TO BACK THAT UP. And if Allah changed the Qibla to Mecca, then it doesn't give you any right to speculate that "Hmm maybe Allah changed the Qibla because of drama and hostilities" And your extreme ignorance regarding the origins of the Kaaba is the reason why you would ask such a loaded question. We Muslims don't worship the Kaaba, it's just a structure that was constructed by Prophet Ibrahim thousands of years ago. And the Kaaba containing pagan idols at that time doesn't change the fact that it's the legitimate Qibla which Allah chose, and when the Muslims conquered Mecca a few years later, the pagan idols were completely destroyed. The Kaaba was constructed by the monotheist Prophet Ibrahim, and over a period of thousands of years, his descendants gradually started to adopt paganism and idolatry, and associating partners with Allah. But I'm totally sure you know nothing about that right? There's a lot you don't know Dear ALlYourBase That was an incredibly obtuse and childish argument. And I have no interest in continuing such a trivial discussion with you. You're obviously not well-read about Islam, and I really don't have any interest in playing the role of Teacher on this forum. Be quiet, you do nothing but waste my time in endlessly circulatory arguments.

We face Mecca because Allah ordered us in the Quran to face Mecca during our prayers. Its a universal point of reference for all Muslims and a source of spiritual unity for all of us. Speculating about such topics isn't considered as strong argumentation And the rest of your post was nothing but conjecture and your attempts to insert your own storyline and interpretation over the direction of the Qiblah. I've heard the exact same argument made by a Missionary when I was a teenager and your repeating these silly arguments reflects a lot about your brand of thinking.

And just to address this incredibly obtuse argument: I actually feel like I'm degrading myself by doing this. To Allah belongs the East and the West, and the North and the South. And Allah is most capable of understanding our nature, so Allah will never overburden us with more than we can handle. If some Astronaut is on the planet Pluto and he wants to make Salat, then he faces in the direction he feels is the most appropriate direction, and then he makes his Salat. And Allah, being the Most Forgiving, would accept such a prayer. Islam is not some robotic religion with no flexibility. Allah knows us best, and would allow flexibility if that's what's best for the people. People who debate such issues have no interest in finding out the truth, but are only interested in trolling Muslims in order to irritate them.

Johnny B, just because you cosign with his arguments doesn't make them superior. Iska amuus. You don't know logic if it hit you in the face. Really? We're debating about whether the curvature of the Earth makes prayers invalid? We're seriously arguing such ridiculous things? Ask such a question in an Academic setting and watch you and OffYourBase get laughed out of the room. You're either being deliberately manipulative, or you're just not a very bright person. Read up on why Muslims even face Mecca during prayers and then get back to me. P.S. And how did a Topic regarding Mars even turn into this?

What a ridiculous and juvenile argument. Have we really reduced this forum to such a childish level? Arguing about how your prayers wouldn't follow the curvature of the Earth and therefore will be sent into outer space? To Allah belongs the Heavens and the Earth. If an astronaut wants to pray to Allah, then he can pray towards the Earth and inshaAllah his prayers will be accepted. Allah will never waste the good deeds of anyone You people have reduced Islam into something robotic, arguing over ridiculous points. Please, have some self-respect and don't engage with losers such as AllYourBase

It's not a very difficult question to answer. You face towards the Earth.

Most of us won't even visit Antarctica, so why would any of us want a one-way trip to Mars?

These self-appointed "Leaders" of the Somali community are trying to shut down a project which has a lot of great potential! I will never understand their logic here. There are plenty of Somalis in Toronto who supported this, and this Somali Task Force consists of SOMALIS. So how does this marginalize our community? When they complain "Oh we weren't consulted when this Task Force was created".....well the TDSB did consult other Somalis, and they were completely on board here. Are they mad that they themselves weren't consulted, so therefore they want to shut down this entire project which might help thousands of young Somalis? Is this some huge "ego" thing and they can't stand the idea that the Government of Ontario would DARE create something for the Somali community without asking for their "permission" first?