I thought it might be appropriate to resurrect this thread from the dead... Note: The Facts on the ground have changed considerably in the last 2 years since I wrote this. And I know I was wrong on a couple of assessments, but the basic message of what I'm saying here still applies today.

<cite> @Tallaabo said:</cite> Anyone who believes Somaliland is a normal country is deluded. Somaliland is a place where tribalism is taken more seriously than religion. It is a place where the wife of a minister or a man with slightly more money than you can have you arrested without any questions asked. It is a place where the president claims credit for the investments made by charities. It is a place where the typical citizen is a clan fanatic like Saalax or a relilgious zealot like CiidanSultan. It is a place where people build for themselves large gated villas but then dump their rubbish in the empty plot of land next door. It is a place where the opposition leaders' election campaign is nothing more than a cry for clan loyalty. It is a place where if a citizen wanted to invest in a region other his clan stronghold, an ugly protest would greet him. It is a place where minority clans are treated as sub-humans. I think I should stop here or I will get depressed. Exactly Tallaabo. There's "peace" in Somaliland because there exists a delicate balance of peace between the major clans of Somaliland. But it's not real peace, conflict could break out at any given moment. And they're not a real nation. The same Somali disease exists in Hargeisa just as much as it exists in Mogadishu. It's just that in Hargeisa, this disease is not as obvious. Instead of focusing constantly on recognition, they should've just focused on development and trying to foster a sense of brotherhood amongst the people of Somaliland. Nationhood can only be built from the ground up, not from the top down. We Somalis severely need a grass-roots based national program designed to create a real nation from the bottom-up. That's the only way we can do it.

<cite> @Cadale said:</cite> nabadsugidda got their arses kicked the entire wadajir neighbourhood locals are siding with cabdullahi sheikh hassan,omar finish and the legendary Daaci. Amisom interfered and got two tanks destroyed. The government shot itself in the foot. HAG will destroy the government hada kedib no mercy. So you want HAG to "destroy" the Government, and as a result return Mogadishu back to year 1992? Warya do you hear yourself when you speak?

This mooryan Ahmed Daaci will get what he deserves inshaAllah. The fact that he refused to disarm himself and as a result caused a major firefight in Mogadishu is enough of a reason to execute this mooryan.

Just think about this: A team of European scientists arrive in Somaliland, with the intention of doing oil exploration. The Europeans will bring their own scientists, engineers, and mechanical equipment to drill for the oil. All you have to do--as a Somali--is to make sure the Europeans are safe. Make sure they aren't killed. And you can't even do that. You can't even do the simple job of protecting them. Wallahi we're absolutely ridiculous as a people. This should be a wake up call for all of us.

<cite> @HawdMan said:</cite> ^ its painfull for you to known that eventhough you spend everyday writing hatefull and incorrect lies about The Republic of Somaliland and its democratic elected GOV all of you effort can not stop the the progress of this nation. Nobody takes you or you little qabilist sidekick from Neyrobi serious. Buuqland pirates all talk no action . The only place a pirate deserves to be is in jail or hanged , criminals deserve no mercy. There's no qabiilism here warya, this is reality. In fact, my very own clan lives in that region, and my very own clan elders were the ones who made this deal with Siilanyo's government. So stop trying to accuse me of being "qabiilist" because you can't handle the truth. Somaliland isn't a government. I've said it before, but one of the definitions of a government is that it must have a monopoly over the use of force. If Somaliland has clan militias, then it's disqualified from being a government. Because even though Somaliland has an "Army", it still has to contend with unaccountable clan militias and clan elders. You want me to stroke your ego and claim that "Somaliland is great and it's this and that" when the reality says otherwise?

Wallahi this is ridiculous. One of the definitions of a "Government" is to have international legitimacy and a monopoly on the use of force over a defined land-area. In Somaliland, that monopoly doesn't exist, because of the clan militias. In fact, PUNTLAND fulfills the criteria of a "nation-state" but Somaliland doesn't. Isn't that ironic?

<cite> @Mooge said:</cite> walahi SNM boys shekadi wa ku xumatay. nowhere to drill, no where to go. siilanyo is falling apart niyoow. clan militia told the norweigian colonialists to get the hell out. they run to Oslo very quickly. loool Mooge, When we acknowledge the existence of clan militias in Somaliland, then we reach the conclusion that Somaliland is no different than Somalia. No real "nation-state" has clan militias. Clan militias mean a civil war can break out at any moment. So why am I hearing lectures from SNM boys about how great "Somaliland" is?

Tallaabo, that's irrelevant. You're posting a photo of 1 random white guy and another random white guy and showing us which one is the handsomer of the two. And it was a pretty extreme example too. But that's not the discussion. This Japanese guy is claiming that Black women as a whole are ugly, and are far less appealing than Asian women. He can believe whatever he wants. As if I care what his opinion is. What I do know however, is that the vast majority of Blacks in my social circle, including Somalis, would much prefer an African woman over a Japanese woman. It isn't even a competition. And I'm sure if you were to survey 100 Japanese men, they'd feel the exact opposite. So it's pretty subjective

I am genuinely ashamed. And everyone on this forum should be ashamed by what took place in Sool this week. And I've been saying this on the forum forever.....that the Somali clan elders have failed the Somali people and have betrayed our country. I have absolutely no respect for my own clan elders, who were responsible for this utter disaster in Sool. Are you telling me they couldn't even protect a small team of Norwegian oil-experts? Is that how ridiculous we are as a people?

<cite> @xabad said:</cite> i disagree, high testosterone doesn't make men attractive. are MMA fighters attractive ?? I don't know if they are. I'm not gay But, tell that to the Japanese Researcher. He's the one making that claim, not me. I don't care which race is more attractive than who. It's all subjective either way...I know men who like white girls and I know men who prefer Arabs or Koreans or whatever. I like East African females and that is that

LOL, so you're telling me that the Somaliland Central Government bribed Sool clan elders with an "undisclosed amount of money" in order to gain their permission to allow foreign oil companies to drill in Sool, but the clan elders were too stupid to tell their own clan militia-men about this deal? So then the clan militia-men were suspicious and decided to actually attack this foreign oil-exploration team, risking the deaths of these foreign workers? And as a result, Somaliland is losing out on hundreds of millions of dollars of potential oil revenue? All because of their own incompetence and stupidity? The clan elders couldn't pick up the phone and tell their clansmen "Warya, there's an oil exploration team coming to our villages, so whatever you do, don't attack them." Why is there even a clan militia in Somaliland? Isn't it a "functioning nation-state" as Xaaji Xunjuf likes to claim? What kind of functioning nation has clan militias? You can't make this stuff up wallahi. This is like a movie. I keep getting lectures from Xaaji Xunjuf and CidanSultan about how great Somaliland is, but stories like this just confirms to me that it's no different from the rest of Somalia. If this doesn't shame you, then I don't know what will.

Well if this Japanese Researcher took this "scientific finding" to it's logical conclusion, then we can also conclude that Asian men are the least attractive men (since they have the least testosterone), and that Black men are the most attractive (since they have the most testosterone). But will this Japanese Researcher admit that? After all, if testosterone is what makes a man far more attractive, then having less of it logically means you're less attractive. So will this Japanese Researcher admit that he just shot himself in the foot, and admitted that he (along with Chinese, Vietnamese and Filipino men) are the least attractive? Let's see what he says about this...

Let's hope the next 10 years are as successful as the 2002-1014 period! Per capita incomes in Turkey have TRIPLED since he took office. By all measures, Turkey is stronger, wealthier and far more influential. And the standard of living in Turkey is off the charts. Energy is cheaper, there are more roads, more people drive, healthcare quality has increased, school quality has improved. Turkey repaid all of it's debt from the IMF. By all measures, Turkey has improved with Erdogan as it's chief. And this is only in a 12 year period. To have the economy of Turkey TRIPLE in a mere 12 years, says a lot about the leadership of Erdogan A lot of the Turks who were living in Germany looking for jobs, have now returned to their homeland and are now working in Turkey instead. He's a good friend to the Somali people and a good friend to the people of Palestine!

Or, maybe....just maybe we can abandon this whole idea of clans dominating each other and treat each other like countrymen? Maybe that might be a good idea? I know it sounds crazy, but give it a try!!

He was really good in "GoodWill Hunting" and "Mrs Doubtfire"

Congratulations to Mr Erdogan for winning Turkey's first ever Presidential election. He's the current Prime Minister, who now ran for President, and just won the election yesterday. Similar to what Vladimir Putin did in 2008. And when Erdogan is sworn in as President, he's going to increase the powers of the Presidency and make it more powerful than the Office of Prime Minister. And he wants to be the Leader of Turkey for the next 10 years at least. Let's see how he shapes the events in the Middle East. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/world/europe/erdogan-turkeys-premier-wins-presidential-election.html

Tell Uncle Hiiraale to build Galguduud or Gedo or some other province and stop trying to fight battles he can't win. Build Hobyo or Bardhere and make it into a major city. Nothing is stopping him from doing such a thing.

Also Mooge, Why doesn't the Puntland Government set up a tax collection system where even foreigners such as myself can contribute to Puntland's government? Like, set up an Online Banking account using Wells Fargo or Bank of America, and then allow Somalis from the USA or Canada to send like 100 dollars a month towards Puntland's government. I know it sounds silly, but even if ONE Somali-American sends money to the Government like that, then it's worth the effort. The Jews of America support Israel. Why can't we Somalis in America support Somalia?

What about a xawaalad tax? I know most of the people in Puntland deal with money-transfer companies, and if the Puntland government takes a small percentage of the money as a "tax", that could also go a long way in raising revenue for the Puntland government. The Somalis from the USA and Canada aren't gonna stop sending money to their relatives back home. So why not tax it, at a very reasonable rate? Maybe 5%-10% tax or something like that

<cite> @Tallaabo said:</cite> Why are you blaming me for starting a worthy discussion Mr Kenney? Why is discussing marriage any different to discussing hajj, jihad, or ramadan? Are you embarrassed about what is in fact a long established Islamic custom, something practised by our own beloved prophet (scw) and his companions? Indeed I believe the Somalis religious fanatics who are obsessed with emulating Arab culture should instead practise child marriage which is part and parcel of our religion. In my opinion Somalis are missing an important Islamic tradition . First you promote gay marriage in Islam, and now you claim that child marriage is "part and parcel of our religion", ignoring the numerous evidences that in Islam, marriage begins only after puberty, and only if the person is physically and mentally capable. Warya, I have no desire in continuing this discussion with you. Any questions you might have, you can direct to at the appropriate forums. And I already said to you before, that in Islam, a female/male can be betrothed or engaged to be married to someone at any age, but the consummation of the marriage can only occur after the female/male reaches puberty, and he/she becomes physically and mentally capable of handling the marriage itself. There's no minimum age of engagement/betrothal in Islam. There's a certain wisdom behind this, because different cultures in different countries in different times have different ages of puberty, and have different ages of marriage. So in Delaware (United States) in 1900, the age of marriage was like 10 years old. Today in Mexico, it's like 13. In the Byzantine Roman Empire, the minimum age of marriage was like 8 years old. The Virgin Mary was like 11 when she gave birth to Jesus. Today, in America the age of marriage is in your late teens. But I personally think in Somalia, an appropriate minimum age of marriage today would be like 13 or 14 for young men and young women. Even though there may be some young women/men who are able to handle marriage when they're younger than 13/14, there are some who can't handle it. But I've seen plenty of young men/women when I was in Somalia, who were like 13 or 14 but had the maturity and all of the responsibilities of a grown adult such as raising the kids and earning an income. So it varies from place to place, but what doesn't change is that the young wife/husband has certainly reached puberty and has the ability to handle marriage. If he/she can't handle it, then it becomes prohibited to marry him/her. And for you and Xabad to claim that the Iddah period is anything other than I described is the height of dishonesty. The "Iddah" in Islam is to ensure the woman isn't pregnant after she becomes divorced, especially since the vast majority of women in human history have never had access to ultrasounds or sonograms. The last thing you'd want to see is to have a mix-up of lineages, so in order to prevent that, Allah instituted a 3 month buffer zone for the woman once she gets a divorce.

<cite> @xabad said:</cite> That indicates to me you are on shaky foundations and scared of the truth. this discussion is not about personal vanity or how high you rate yourself kenney. provide your proofs and don't endlessly go on about how i am not somali, how am atheist iyo nac nac kale So because I don't want to address you, I'm suddenly "scared of the truth"? Go away Xabad, I've said it before on other threads, and other SOL Members have said the same thing; that you're a troll who's not worth having a discussion with. Your blatant lies, insults, and misrepresentations of the truth are well-documented on this forum, and for me to address you would be the height of self-degradation.

Xabad, as I've said before, I consider it beneath me to reply to the likes of you.

What really gets to me, is that CidanSultan is virtually ignoring the serious problems that exist in Somaliland. He's pretending that it doesn't exist, and then he wants to focus on Somalia and claim that there's no progress taking place! I mean, look at Puntland, Galmudug, Hiiraan, Mogadishu and other parts of Somalia that are clearly progressing and moving forward, regardless of what the corrupt politicians are doing. He thinks that the Somali National Army will be built in one day. But then he forgets that in 1995, the country of "Somaliland" was nowhere near as capable as it is today. So he wants to judge Somalia by one standard and Somaliland by a different standard.

P.S. We all know that most of the developments going on in Hargeisa and Berbera are done by PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS and private companies. The Government has nothing to do with it. You wanna talk about a government that does nothing for it's own people, look outside in your own backyard, where useless Somalilander politicians are playing identity politics in order to get elected. There's a pretty fragile and delicate balance of power right now in Somaliland, and the mutual animosity between certain clans in Somaliland is clear for anyone to see. So pay attention to your own country before you go on a rant criticizing and bashing Somalia. Your own country needs a lot of work as well. Somalia is progressing, and Al Shabab doesn't have the power or ability to ever control large swathes of Somalia again. And the people of Somalia are mostly against their rule as well as their tactics.