<cite> @CidanSultan said:</cite> The same thing happened with the muslim brotherhood that happened with the Islamic courts union. They won and then they were toppled. So like I said their are those who argue that the muslim brotherhood method is a norm however this approach has failed in Egypt and amongst Somalis and therefore extreme forces have filled the void and their narative is only through force can we acheive our objective and many have accepted that based on what they have seen of what happened to the muslim brotherhood, Islamic courts union, yemen, Libya today, Tunisia etc. This extreme narative is being empowered by the wests blatant hypocrisy and double standards. If your a muslim your a threat if your secular your not. Isis or the Islamic state is the product of western hypocrisy and injustice. The west created isis and their most powerful tool their narative. CidanSultan, this extremist narrative needs to be discredited in the Middle East before we gain any progress and development. It's as simple as that, nothing is easy at all. But it needs to be done. But at least we need to find ways to completely cripple ISIS and purge the Middle East of their rotten influence. The same goes for Al Qaeda.

Believe me AllYourBase, I'm very very open with my pro-Islam views at school and at work. But you're a coward, who's unwilling to tell people in his personal life about his twisted views. I have more respect for my White-Supremacist coworker who openly tells me about his racist White views and how he wants America to be a "White-Only" country, because at least he's being honest. At least he isn't hiding his pro-White views and even though I might dislike it, I actually have far more respect for him than the likes of you, when you hide behind the keyboard and talk in a way you would NEVER do in real life. You're a child, with simplistic views, who thinks anyone who is "pro-Islam" must be part of some secret conspiracy to "hate the West" or to "support ISIS"....this is why people can't take you seriously. And then you seek to further insult me by associating me with those Al Qaeda or ISIS dogs.

AllYourBase why don't you start off with revealing to your family and friends your Atheistic beliefs? Come on, don't be shy

CidanSuldan, your methodology is the exact same methodology of the Muslim Brotherhood, not ISIS. The Brotherhood wants to achieve this through gradual political and social change in the Muslim world and to purge society of all foreign negative influences. Their method is to start at the local level and educate the people and to create self-sufficient Islamic Republics that will eventually confederate into a vast and powerful Caliphate. There is nothing good in ISIS saaxib you should see them for who they are.

Miskiin, you're worried that if Somalia is divided into 6 or 7 regional federal States, that this would somehow lead to regional domination by the Kenyans and Ethiopians? You do realize that the Kenyans and Ethiopians were sponsoring different tribal warlords in Somalia for the last 23 years right? You do realize that the Kenyans and Ethiopians are exploiting the tribal differences in our country, while at the same time Somalis are killing each other and running to Nairobi for asylum. I mean, your concerns are already a reality, but you're forgetting that if Somalia DOES split into 6 or 7 loosely confederated federal states, that the onset of peace and development could render these tribal labels meaningless and the Somalis would seek greater unity amongst themselves within a couple decades, as soon as the corrupt Kacaan-era generation of Somalis die off. And you're talking about it creating hostilities! Well no one said it would be easy! You think that life is just easy and just perfect, where everyone gets along and no one kills each other for their own interests! One of the benefits of Federalism is that any conflict that exists in the country can be localized and isolated off. So even if Central State collapses or SouthWest State collapses, it won't have an effect on the other states in Somalia, and the other states can use their resources and energy to prop them back up again. Whereas in 1991, when Xamar collapsed then the entire country went down with it. And when I say "organically unite", I meant it. After a generation, the Federal States in Somalia would gradually unite organically under a common basis. Forcing Somalis together who don't even trust each other is a failed policy. And it's not just the leaders who feel this way it's the average Somali person.

CidanSultan, I'm not saying we Muslims shouldn't do anything and stay idle. We should definitely work towards the re-establishment of the Caliphate, but we shouldn't trust groups like ISIS to deliver it to us. One of the hallmarks of the Khawaarij is their blatant takfir of anyone who disagrees with them, another hallmark is their indiscriminate slaughter of soldiers and civilians, another hallmark is the lack of support they receive from the men of knowledge. Read what men such as Al Qaradawi and Muhammad Al Arifi had to say about ISIS. Look at ISIS's ranks, it's filled with know-nothing teenagers who are led by self-serving older men with no wisdom and no knowledge. There's a certain methodology Muslims must use when reforming their society, and the personal testimonies of Christians, Yazidis, Shias, and even other Sunni Muslims show how barbaric ISIS is. It would be an insult for me to list their crimes on this chatroom, it's just too much to count. All you have to do is search it up yourself. We all want to see the application of Shariah Law in our lands, but since applying the Hukm of Allah is such a heavy responsibility, then that responsibility should only go towards the best of us, the most moral of us, and the ones with the greatest wisdom. This isn't something trivial such as voting for Labour Party or the Conservative Party, this is Shariah. This is a very serious matter, and I will never trust obscure figures with bloody hands to apply the Shariah Law in the Muslim countries. It's a very heavy responsibility. We've already seen the results of that with men such as Godane and Dahir Aweys. So why would you try the same game? I am a strong supporter of Tayyip Erdogan, and I was a strong supporter of Mohamed Morsi, but he was overthrown because of the deep corruption that exists in Egyptian society. Egypt is full of Atheists, Secularists, and pro-Nasser buffoons, so of course Morsi was bound to fail, it wasn't his time yet. The Egyptian people don't DESERVE a man like Morsi to lead them because they're far too corrupt and have a poisonous mentality. Quran 13:11 "Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it."

<cite> @CidanSultan said:</cite> Talabo get your head outa your a?? Saxib. Qaddafi said no and they invaded. The only reason why They didn't invade syria is the fear of what might come next and we all know it would not have been an alawite. The west doesn't care if you give them the go ahead or not. Did saddam ?? If they know they have an incentive to and it won't lead to an islamic movement or anti western regime then they will do it. History shows us that The West was opposed to Assad's regime and they initially supported the Free Syrian Army because they were afraid of Iranian and Russian influence extending into Syria and bordering the Mediterranean as well as Israel. The West is trying their best to contain Iran and isolate them. They wanted to neutralize Iranian power and maintain a balance of power between the Shia's and the Sunnis. It's all political saaxib.

CidanSultan, you can't keep referencing the various crimes of the Western Powers. We're Muslims. We're better than they are. We're far superior to them, and that's a fact. We're morally better, we believe in Allah, we enjoin what is right, we are merciful to those who are oppressed and weak, and we uphold justice. So if the British Empire or the Russians do something terrible to the Muslim Ummah, it doesn't give ISIS an excuse to behave like this. The majority of ISIS's victims are also fellow Muslims! The way they treat religious minorities such as Yazidis and Christians is appalling, and if you were to resurrect Umar bin Khattab or any of the righteous early Muslims, they would categorically rebuke ISIS! And you know it's true. You need to hold yourself to a different standard. ISIS is rotten to the core, and they have no legitimacy at all. Quran 3:110 "You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah." Quran 5:8 "O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do."

Che, you're asking for a miracle. This type of inter-Somali racism is coming from the COMMUNITY ITSELF. I hear tons of stories about how Barawe Somalis are discriminated against by the average Somali person in the South. I hear the same about what goes on in Burco, where minority tribes are also discriminated against. The people are corrupt saaxib, no matter what type of Government we have this problem will still exist. No type of top-down solution will fix this problem. It'll take decades to fix, through a major cultural transformation in our country. But in the meantime, if we have decentralized Federal States which are autonomous, it'll AT LEAST keep the peace in Somalia. And that's what we're after. We're looking for peace. All the rest will come later, once we achieve peace, first and foremost. You can look at countries like Nigeria and Cameroon where minority groups are marginalized, so this isn't something unique to Somalis.

I don't understand how some people STILL want Somalia to have a centralized administration?!? I mean, when have Somalis EVER in our history have a centralized administration, before the Italians came into our country? The 1960-1991 period was the ONLY period when Somalia was governed by one Administration, and it was an abject failure so why would we try it again? A United Somalia can only grow organically from several federal States who willingly choose to participate in it. It can't be forced upon us, like the way it was forced upon us in 1960 when the Italians and British left.

Che, when you have a large country like Somalia, dominated by many different tribal identities, then what you have is Tribal Politicians who use the Tribal card to get elected. Instead of focusing on development policies and other policies designed to improve the quality of life of the average Somali, you just have Tribal thugs masquerading as politicians. At least if Somalia is broken into several mini-states, this tribal card wouldn't be as effective, and the politicians can actually focus on development and growth, instead of always playing identity politics. Somalia already has groups trying to dominate others, just look at how the D-Block was eradicated in Mogadishu. Look at how the Reer Xamar and Barawe are treated in the South. I mean, this subjugation and domination keeps on happening so at least if we de-centralize Somalia, we wouldn't put all our eggs in one basket and we can quarantine and isolate whatever instability exists in the country. Somalia's been made hostage by the instability in Mogadishu throughout the entire 1990's. Why not just try a new strategy?

Che, well history isn't stagnant saaxib. Sure, Somalia may be divided into several tribal states, and that might be the case for the next 2 or 3 decades. But perhaps in the future, Puntland and Central State and Jubbaland and Bay&Bakool State might find it in their interests to develop some form of Confederation. Remember, Germany in 1850 didn't exist. It was Hanover, Saxony, Prussia, Bavaria and a whole bunch of other small German-speaking countries that suddenly decided to unite into 1 large country in 1871, on a common basis. Times change, and even if Somalia does has institutionalized tribal federalism, then it doesn't mean that in the future, once we mature as a society, that we can't re-unite under 1 common basis. What do you think?

Well, the costs of hiring African mercenaries to patrol Somalia is a lot cheaper than the potential costs of what might happen if Somalia was to descend into anarchy again. If Somalia was to descend into anarchy yet again, the possibilities are endless, and I don't think the Americans are willing to make that gamble

CidanSultan, the terrible actions of Russia, the USA or Saudi Arabia doesn't change the fact that ISIS is a group of terrorists and thugs. 2 wrongs don't make a right, no matter how serious these wrongs are. We all know about how hypocritical and cowardly the Saudi Regime is. Muslims have been talking about the Saudis for decades, but it doesn't change a single thing about how terrible ISIS is as a group.

Don't count on it. If the UN Security Council sees fit to extend AMISOM's mission by another 2 or 3 years, then they will do so. It all depends on the facts on the ground.

He should be hanged.

<cite> @Tillamook said:</cite> That's precisely what I've been saying: Somalilanders are my cousins! :D

Most of Djibouti is barren and empty, so I'm not surprised that Somalis only inhabit a small portion of Djibouti. They only inhabit like 20% of the country but have AT LEAST 60% of the population

"I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil." Malcolm X

<cite> @Che -Guevara said:</cite> Dox. Victorian is a period of time, en era. I think you and I simply disagree on the severity of the challenges faced African-Americans. No, I know very well that the challenges are very severe. But I remember once, I heard from a drug-addiction counselor. That the only way the drug addict will ever recover from his addiction, is if he cares about recovering more than anyone else does. The drug-addict's parents, siblings, friends and counselors won't care about the drug-addict beating his addiction and making a recovery, if the addict himself doesn't care about it. And the Black Man can never uplift himself unless he first cares about his own community. Him claiming that "The Government doesn't care about us" or "The Police don't care about us" doesn't mean anything since the Black Man doesn't even care about himself or his own community. And only HE has the ability to fix the deep-rooted issues in his own community. No one else can do it except him. He has the power to be self-sufficient and independent, but he chooses not to exercise that power, and he adopts a culture of dependency and victim-hood which just traps him in this cycle of poverty and hopelessness. He needs to depend on himself just like every other race depends on themselves. Bill Cosby, Frederick Douglass, and Malcolm X spoke extensively about this.

<cite> @Tallaabo said:</cite> Would this thread have the same muted reaction if the topic was about Somali women paying for call boys? Now that I think about it, it's these type of people who are responsible for the high HIV rates in Southern Africa. In some countries, the HIV rate is like 25% of all adults. (I know, it's disgusting) Somalia has a relatively low rate of HIV, but it'll increase if men like these aren't stopped for this behavior.

LOL Dorothy Parker and Winston Churchill

If we can agree that what Blacks underwent in America was probably the worst case of human rights abuse that we can think of, then how does this change the fact that we're in the 21st century and the Black Man in America is fully capable of turning his own life around. I'm not talking about discrimination against Blacks in some European or Asian countries, because they're very small in number and don't have the numbers to create real change. But what's stopping the Black American from building his own economy and his own industries and cleaning up his own neighborhoods and lobbying his own local government to hire more black police officers? Why is it that a people, who are 45 million in number, are so dependent on others for their own well-being, and when are Blacks going to change this and finally get rid of this victim mentality and adopt a self-help philosophy? Nothing you do today will erase the crimes of 200 years ago, but you're very capable of making something of yourself today. Che, I'm sure you being a Somali refugee didn't stop you from making something of yourself in America. I'm sure you getting up and leaving Somalia and leaving everyone you know behind didn't stop you from improving yourself and improving your community in America

<cite> @Tillamook said:</cite> Condoms are for weaklings! Indeed, what's the point? It's like going for a swim whilst wearing a 3-piece Tuxedo with matching shoes! Can I get an amen, Somalis LOL Talk about living their life on the edge! This is like playing Russian Roulette over and over again

The Government prolonged the Great Depression, the actions of President Roosevelt certainly made the Depression more painful, and much much longer than it should have been. Historians almost all agree on that fact, they just argue on "how bad" the Government screwed up in the 1930's. He tripled taxes, created thousands of new regulations, and did away with free trade. And that made the Depression 10x worse and much much longer. But that's another discussion for another day. Che, I'm not talking about "Victorian people"....that was in Britain, not America. America transformed from a 3rd world country in 1880 to the richest country in the world by the 1920's. Annual incomes for the average American doubled, tripled, and even quadrupled. Prices dropped massively as a result of mechanization. And millions of Europeans migrated to America every single year so they can take advantage of the massive economic boom during that period. It's been said over and over, that this 1880-1930 period was the greatest period of economic growth by any country in world history. No country ever became so prosperous in such a short span of time. It wasn't perfect, there were definitely some problems, but this period is why the American Middle Class arose. Not some G.I. bill. Middle classes aren't created overnight saaxib. A simple government bill isn't going to transform a 3rd world country like the United States into an industrial powerhouse. All of the capital accumulation, the maximized production, and the industrial base is what made the 1950's and 1960's so prosperous. The G.I. bill certainly helped, and definitely made life much easier for the average American, but the G.I. bill would've NEVER been possible if it wasn't for America's massive industrial wealth at the time. If a "G.I. bill" is responsible for prosperity, then why don't we visit Tanzania or Cambodia and tell the people there to start a "G.I. bill" and see if that uplifts the economy and turns Cambodia or Tanzania into a prosperous nation? Prosperity comes from investment, savings, and production saaxib. There is no shortcut to that. And there is no reason why the Black American can't do the same for his people. There are almost as much Black Americans as there are South Koreans in this world. There are as much Black Americans today (45 million people) as there were people in America in 1875 (right before the massive American economic boom). What the Blacks went through during slavery is definitely much much worse than anything anyone ever went through. But what they went through during Jim Crow is very comparable to what other races went through in the past. Blacks in the 1920's set up their own neighborhoods, businesses, their own colleges, their own investment firms, their own Baseball leagues, their own supermarkets and even their own construction firms! If they can do that, in the 1920's, when discrimination was extremely high....then there is nothing stopping them from achieving the same thing in the 21st century. You're talking about the "black family was destroyed as a result of slavery" but I showed you examples of how MOST BLACKS in the 1950's and 1960's grew up in 2 parent households. They grew up with their mother and father in the house. But today, most black kids are born to single mothers, and the father is nowhere in sight. What went wrong? Why is it from 1970 onward, everything started to go downhill for Black Americans and the Black Family? And why is it that Blacks in America don't take the initiative to improve their own societies? Why is that as soon as Black Man in America can afford it, he moves to a White part of town, and doesn't use his wealth to support black businesses?